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[Joey Ravn]

In FROM's offices, someone, at an unspecified point in time, decided that the game would keep track of the Poise stat... but not actually implement it in any way at all.

Spoiler

You can literally go around in full Havel's and still get stunlocked as if you were wearing absolutely nothing. It boggles the mind how this is even possible. Especially after DS2 added a half-step between staggered and non-staggered with a quick slowdown to your actions.

Enemies do have poise, though. And, oh boy, some of them have a lot of it...

 

[myco666]

When invading as a Mound Maker, and you find yet ANOTHER "fight club" on the ledge in Irithyl...
Is it wrong to just walk over and one shot the host for a vertebrae shackle?

Because... Yeah... I did that once. I don't even feel bad...
I want the damn achievement for all pyromancy... If From Software wanted me being a nice mad phantom, they would have made if easier to get vertebrae shackle...

Nope. If they have used Dried Finger it means they get priority in invasions and if you Black Crystal out you probably will get connected to them immediately again if you try to invade there. They just stuck you in a loop if you don't kill the host.

Sure it is kinda asshole thing to do but as you said you are there for the reward so everything goes.

 

[Septimius]

In FROM's offices, someone, at an unspecified point in time, decided that the game would keep track of the Poise stat... but not actually implement it in any way at all.

Spoiler

You can literally go around in full Havel's and still get stunlocked as if you were wearing absolutely nothing. It boggles the mind how this is even possible. Especially after DS2 added a half-step between staggered and non-staggered with a quick slowdown to your actions.

Enemies do have poise, though. And, oh boy, some of them have a lot of it...

There's a lot of people talking a lot about poise, and many of them don't have a grasp of things. Poise is definitely a bogus stat at this point, especially for PvP, but it's still unclear if it has a purpose. I've heard talk of poise giving certain heavy weapons hyper armor during 1h swings.

When invading as a Mound Maker, and you find yet ANOTHER "fight club" on the ledge in Irithyl...
Is it wrong to just walk over and one shot the host for a vertebrae shackle?

Because... Yeah... I did that once. I don't even feel bad...
I want the damn achievement for all pyromancy... If From Software wanted me being a nice mad phantom, they would have made if easier to get vertebrae shackle...

"The real Dark Souls begins here" seems fitting. It's Dark Souls. A fight club isn't something you have to respect even a little bit. Good on you if you have the ability to one-shot the host. Perfectly fair.

 

[Hentailover]

When invading as a Mound Maker, and you find yet ANOTHER "fight club" on the ledge in Irithyl...
Is it wrong to just walk over and one shot the host for a vertebrae shackle?

Because... Yeah... I did that once. I don't even feel bad...
I want the damn achievement for all pyromancy... If From Software wanted me being a nice mad phantom, they would have made if easier to get vertebrae shackle...

It is an asshole thing to do, but you can't play Dark Souls and not do something assholish once in awhile. We all done it a least once:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WhKlTI5V_o

The wide variety of ways you can interract with other people is the appeal of multiplayer. Sometimes you troll, sometimes you get trolled, sometimes you get honorable duels, sometimes you get ganked, sometimes you just get invaded by a fashion police that gives you fashion advice.

 

[TalesFromHoth]

I got plenty of coop action at lvl100-140 on NG+ and NG++.

I'm holding now at 152 in NG++ as I'm trying for the Plat and I'm sure I will need a summon for the NK. However, so far it's been basically a cake walk - way easier then NG+.

 

[Nephtes]

It is an asshole thing to do, but you can't play Dark Souls and not do something assholish once in awhile. We all done it a least once:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WhKlTI5V_o

The wide variety of ways you can interract with other people is the appeal of multiplayer. Sometimes you troll, sometimes you get trolled, sometimes you get honorable duels, sometimes you get ganked, sometimes you just get invaded by a fashion police that gives you fashion advice.

I suck at "honorable duels"... The damn fight clubs are so infuriating when I just want achievement items...
I'll kill 2 phantoms in honorable duels and lose to the third and get nothing...

I prefer the gank squads quite frankly...
I know some tactics to help out even out my odds and I know most of the tricks... Most of my 18 vertebrae shackles have come from outganking a gank squad...

If only there was some kind of options for "Allow summon to Fight Club", because I would happily turn that shit off.

 

[Cannon Goose]

I had a red invader Black Crystal out because I wouldn't follow him into the enemies, lol. I was by myself and wasn't summoning phantoms, not really sure what that guy's deal was.

 

[Mr Git]

Oh god, I just started Darkmoon covenant after a playthrough of being a dark spirit - this thread is making that seem like a mistake. Think I'll leave it for next build.

Is there only one location where you can get a seed of the giants? Cause it seemed like a lot of people I was invading were happy to use one against me. Once was when I was hiding inside a creature, good stuff. I am an item hoarder though so will probably never use mine.

Also how effective is Luck for affecting poison? I didn't notice there was even a correlation for most of my first playthrough, and spent it a bit miffed that poison seemed mostly useless. Does high luck make poison more like rapid poison effect?

 

[Manu]

UP YOURS, KRABAPPLE

 

[Hentailover]

Are covenants required to get all miracles and sorceries?
I am considering going for platinum, since technically only things I need is last ending and all rings\mircales\sorceries

 

[OniBarubary]

Also how effective is Luck for affecting poison? I didn't notice there was even a correlation for most of my first playthrough, and spent it a bit miffed that poison seemed mostly useless. Does high luck make poison more like rapid poison effect?

Luck unfortunately only affects how quickly it builds. It'll still only do 3 or 4 damage at 1000 luck.

 

[equil]

Are covenants required to get all miracles and sorceries?
I am considering going for platinum, since technically only things I need is last ending and all rings\mircales\sorceries

Yes, and certain rings.

 

[FF Seraphim]

When invading as a Mound Maker, and you find yet ANOTHER "fight club" on the ledge in Irithyl...
Is it wrong to just walk over and one shot the host for a vertebrae shackle?

Because... Yeah... I did that once. I don't even feel bad...
I want the damn achievement for all pyromancy... If From Software wanted me being a nice mad phantom, they would have made if easier to get vertebrae shackle...

Oh man someone tried to Do that last night... Everyone just stopped and piled on the MM it was crazy since everyone were just hitting each other. The host ran and healed himself of course but he somehow fell off the ledge ands everyone got something. Fun times

 

[Mr Git]

It is an asshole thing to do, but you can't play Dark Souls and not do something assholish once in awhile. We all done it a least once:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WhKlTI5V_o

.

I laughed. Fitting item on the first loading screen too

I've definitely done my share of bastard things when invading (gotta love careful lift manipulation to make hosts fall..), but also met my fair share of wonderful players. Been surprised by some fight clubs that have separated and let me fight the host. Managed to hold my own versus a host and two sunbros for a while in the Grand Archives, and when I did eventually die you could see the appreciation they had. Gestures say a lot.

Haven't used the black separation crystal yet - seen other invaders give up when the host is well hidden, but I'm a patient spook of Vinheim. Have much more trouble with people unplugging their RJ45 cables.

edit:

Luck unfortunately only affects how quickly it builds. It'll still only do 3 or 4 damage at 1000 luck.

Ah bollocks that is very unfortunate. Cheers though!

 

[Toxi]

Switching from an ultra great sword to a straight sword makes PvE hilariously easy in comparison.

It's weird, big slow weapons were great in Bloodborne and previous Souls games and here they just suck against so many bosses.

 

[Arjen]

Are covenants required to get all miracles and sorceries?
I am considering going for platinum, since technically only things I need is last ending and all ringsmircalessorceries

Yes, some spells and ring are covenant rewards only, I wish you could just buy them like in Dark Souls 2

 

[Hugstable]

Switching from an ultra great sword to a straight sword makes PvE hilariously easy in comparison.

It's weird, big slow weapons were great in Bloodborne and previous Souls games and here they just suck against so many bosses.

Greatswords like Claymore are still really good and not super slow to the point where bosses feel ridiculous (at least I never really had a problem at all with any enemy in PVE with my trusty Refined Claymore . They really need to buff Ultra Greatswords though cause they really don't do near as much more damage as they should compared to Straight Swords and Regular Greatswords

 

[BeeDog]

Are covenants required to get all miracles and sorceries?
I am considering going for platinum, since technically only things I need is last ending and all rings\mircales\sorceries

Yes, you have to max almost all covenants.

 

[tariniel]

Done with all Covenant items for achievements.. except for Proofs.

I am not looking forward to this. Have had the item equipped my entire NG+ playthrough and didn't get a single summon. Even spent an hour idling in

Spoiler

Anor Londo

and nothing.

I didn't think it was so bad. It took me somewhere between 7-10 hours to get 29 of them. I ended up with 31 because the final time I got summoned I got two proofs.

I equipped:
Gold Serpent Ring
Silver Serpent Ring
Shield of Want
Symbol of Avarice
Darkmoon Blade Covenant

Farmed the 3 Silver Knights by the

Spoiler

Anor Londo

bonfire including the red-eyes. Used a rusted coin for every run. Every time I had 500k souls I went and spent it on a bunch of random stuff, all of the armor, weapons and spells I could buy, chunks, twinkling, scales. I leveled up from level 84 (which is what level I was when I killed the final boss) to level 118 also.

I'd say I got probably 10 or 15 of them from being summoned during this time. I got lucky a few times and somehow ended up getting 2 proofs in 1 summon because there were multiple reds. The rest came from the silver knights. I lost count of how many times "Being summoned" appeared to have it "fail to join world", and a bunch of times I'd be summoned just in time for the host to die and return to my world.

This was actually the first covenant I completed because I've heard it's the worst and wanted to get it out of the way. I don't even know if I'll continue to get all of the achievements or not, I kind of just wanted to do this one for some reason. Maybe I'll respec so I can actually use Darkmoon Blade now.

Also because of how shitty this is I plan to play through the entirety of NG+ ember'd and with Way of the Blue equipped. I guess I should farm some embers eh? I have 90 already but who knows how many times I'll get fucked.

 

[Kazooie]

It's impossible, I have it equipped all the time, never even worked once.

What Soul Level are you? Initially when I equipped Blue Sentinals I was only summoned twice in about 7 hours. When I started NG+ it became more frequent, about once an hour on average. Overall I probably got 15 Proof of Concord Kepts from farming and 15 from auto summoning. My Soul Level was 105.

Also you don't need to camp in certain areas, if you just play the game normally it will summon you to any part of the game world.

 

[LiK]

Summoning and invasions are more common in higher levels, imo. People are just leveling up and playing normally.

 

[Ferr986]

I think I'm done with the game even though I don't want to

I love this game but the online aspect is so bad that I can't do anything without stepping into issues, being blue covenants not working in 100 hours an3 characters, red invasions consisting on ganks, broken pvp with phantom hits and unpunishable chugs....

I feel like I can only do coop with this game.

 

[StoppedInTracks]

Switching from an ultra great sword to a straight sword makes PvE hilariously easy in comparison.

It's weird, big slow weapons were great in Bloodborne and previous Souls games and here they just suck against so many bosses.

I blame it all on the fucked up Poise system. In general all the heavy stuff seems broken in the game.

 

[Ghost Slayer]

UP YOURS, KRABAPPLE

Teach me senpai ;_;

 

[StoppedInTracks]

There's a lot of people talking a lot about poise, and many of them don't have a grasp of things. Poise is definitely a bogus stat at this point, especially for PvP, but it's still unclear if it has a purpose. I've heard talk of poise giving certain heavy weapons hyper armor during 1h swings.

There has to be some hidden reason for that. I mean FROM created 4 Souls games, they are the creators of the mechanic, they UNDERSTAND what Poise is and how should it work.

And yet... it does not work here. For god knows reason why. And they refuse to patch it and fix it!

Is it because working Poise breaks PVP? I don't know how PVP works, though.

Can someone find any logical explanation why they left the stat in the game yet it does not work? Why would they break it on purpouse?

 

[DoubleTake]

I think I'm done with the game even though I don't want to

I love this game but the online aspect is so bad that I can't do anything without stepping into issues, being blue covenants not working in 100 hours an3 characters, red invasions consisting on ganks, broken pvp with phantom hits and unpunishable chugs....

I feel like I can only do coop with this game.

The only thing I see as a problem there is the blue covenants. The invasions are fine. You invade prepare to face multiple people, its life. If your not good enough for that do duels to gain tongues.

Phantom hits in PvP have always been a thing, nothing new there.

Chuggin is punishable, just a bit more difficult than the other games. You have to be on point and always hounding them. Remember they have trouble punishing you as well, its not a one way street. If they change how estus works they have to change how bosses and enemies work. These games arent only PvP experiences. I'll take downsides in the PvP department so long as the PvE is amazing and works well.

There has to be some hidden reason for that. I mean FROM created 4 Souls games, they are the creators of the mechanic, they UNDERSTAND what Poise is and how should it work.

And yet... it does not work here. For god knows reason why. And they refuse to patch it and fix it!

Is it because working Poise breaks PVP? I don't know how PVP works, though.

Can someone find any logical explanation why they left the stat in the game yet it does not work? Why would they break it on purpouse?

Its not broken on purpose. They likely turned it off because it wasnt balance properly. Think of all the weapon arts that grant Hyper Armor. Most heavy weapons have Hyper Armor on swings and the 2 hit stun youre guaranteed for landing hit(pvp). If they turn on poise with these other systems in place theyd have to rebalance nearly every weapon and armor in the game. Thats not feasible. As it is the game is pretty much like Demon's Souls except Demon's didnt have a visible poise stat. Remember Ds1 is the only one to have true Poise. The other games From has made all have a take on Hyper Armor.

The poise stat is most likely an oversight they didnt think to go back to once they implemented Hyper Armor and Hyper Armor granting weapon arts.

Here's a vid explaining it much better than I can in regards to PvP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSCOgi5imGA

I do think they need to remove the stat or change how it works in game to give it a purpose.

 

[Rutti]

Got all the proofs. Still need 7 wolfs blood swordgrasses. I leveled my luck from 10 to 50 with that silver knight farm. Never got summoned.

 

[LiK]

Got all the proofs. Still need 7 wolfs blood swordgrasses. I leveled my luck from 10 to 50 with that silver knight farm. Never got summoned.

farm the Ghru dudes in front of Abyss Walkers bonfire. much easier than the other covenant items.

 

[Dahaka]

Is it normal that you can't be summoned in Road to Sacrifice and neither summon others? I got really rusty over the years and I'm struggling with those goddamn birds. Should put 14 into Dex and kill the farting bird shamanists from distance.

 

[Cannon Goose]

There has to be some hidden reason for that. I mean FROM created 4 Souls games, they are the creators of the mechanic, they UNDERSTAND what Poise is and how should it work.

And yet... it does not work here. For god knows reason why. And they refuse to patch it and fix it!

Is it because working Poise breaks PVP? I don't know how PVP works, though.

Can someone find any logical explanation why they left the stat in the game yet it does not work? Why would they break it on purpouse?

I'm not sure they really know what they want to do with poise, it's been different across all the games. What we have now in DS3 is basically what we had in Demon's Souls; no poise but certain attacks have hyper armour. The stat being present in the game despite doing seemingly nothing does make the whole debacle very confusing though. If poise ever does get changed I really hope it's not just the Dark Souls 1 system, that was stupidly broken and easy to abuse.

 

[Arjen]

What Soul Level are you? Initially when I equipped Blue Sentinals I was only summoned twice in about 7 hours. When I started NG+ it became more frequent, about once an hour on average. Overall I probably got 15 Proof of Concord Kepts from farming and 15 from auto summoning. My Soul Level was 105.

Also you don't need to camp in certain areas, if you just play the game normally it will summon you to any part of the game world.

I wore it during the whole of NG+, and I'm now in NG++. So roughly no action at all from sl100 to 165. This is just going trough to the game, never waited in a certain place to get summoned.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

I am doing a strength build. Do I go beyond 40 strength or keep this pain train going to 50? 60?

 

[DoubleTake]

I am doing a strength build. Do I go beyond 40 strength or keep this pain train going to 50? 60?

50 at the most. Your returns drop significantly past 50.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I am doing a strength build. Do I go beyond 40 strength or keep this pain train going to 50? 60?

Unless you intend to use a weapon with a str requirement over 40, dont.

 

[Rutti]

farm the Ghru dudes in front of Abyss Walkers bonfire. much easier than the other covenant items.

Yeah I got 12 today. Just leaving the rest for tomorrow.

 

[StoppedInTracks]

Seath
Bed of Chaos
Artorias
Ornstein and Smough
Taurus Demon

Personal Top5. Such BS. Long way from bonfire. Strong enemies in the way. Dark Souls 3 feels like a light breeze compared to that.

Why would you even list Taurus Demon here...

 

[Gbraga]

I really miss heal parries from Bloodborne. That was the most satisfying thing in the whole game.

But getting used to parrying heals in that game made it easy to know when people will heal, so it's not THAT frustrating. Worst case scenario, I just heal too.

It was probably a mistake by them to limit estus for the invader, though. This franchise has been going for a while, they obviously know people enjoy dueling in these games, why make their life harder?

Hoping for an arena in the DLC.

 

[ced]

Well I think I've done everything except the

Spoiler

two prince boss fight

, fuck those guys.

Kinda bummed I'm pretty much done.

 

[Arjen]

I really miss heal parries from Bloodborne. That was the most satisfying thing in the whole game.

But getting used to parrying heals in that game made it easy to know when people will heal, so it's not THAT frustrating. Worst case scenario, I just heal too.

It was probably a mistake by them to limit estus for the invader, though. This franchise has been going for a while, they obviously know people enjoy dueling in these games, why make their life harder?

Hoping for an arena in the DLC.

I love it when an invader is the first to heal. You know you've got half of the estus I do don't you buddy?

 

[DoubleTake]

I really miss heal parries from Bloodborne. That was the most satisfying thing in the whole game.

But getting used to parrying heals in that game made it easy to know when people will heal, so it's not THAT frustrating. Worst case scenario, I just heal too.

It was probably a mistake by them to limit estus for the invader, though. This franchise has been going for a while, they obviously know people enjoy dueling in these games, why make their life harder?

Hoping for an arena in the DLC.

Which is why I laugh at people who complained about Healing in BB when there was actually a way to counter it. Now there isnt lol

I feel like limited heals for invaders is fine. Its the same for summons too. And you also get estus for killing phantoms. Thats balanced pretty well IMO. Give invaders too much estus and the fights will drag on forever. Invasions are supposed to lean towards favoring the host.

Seeds can get fucked though. They shouldnt last forever or should open up friendly fire for the host and phantoms.

 

[jrush64]

Can someone help me understand coop in the soul games. I like playing online coop with my cousin.

i know these games have some form of coop. Would the both of us be able to just play through the campaign in coop or is there some sort of catch. I'm asking for both Dark souls 2 and Dark souls 3.

 

[Essay]

They should just make make hitting someone with a melee attack in the start up of their healing animation put them into a shield break state. (But just the early frames, so it's not based on reaction)

 

[brainzelda]

Can someone help me understand coop in the soul games. I like playing online coop with my cousin.

i know these games have some form of coop. Would the both of us be able to just play through the campaign in coop or is there some sort of catch. I'm asking for both Dark souls 2 and Dark souls 3.

Yeah I cooped my entire second playthrough with a friend. Both of you set a password in the matchmaking settings, he puts his white soapstone sign down, then you summon him in. The only two catches is that every time you complete a boss you have to summon him again in the next zone, and you can't summon him in areas in which a boss is already dead.

 

[OniBarubary]

I really miss heal parries from Bloodborne. That was the most satisfying thing in the whole game.

...what

 

[NeroAngelo]

...what

With the right rune setup in Bloodborne you could recover a decent amount of hp with visceral attacks.

 

[Floody]

...what

Certain Runes gave you health from Visceral attacks, he's probably referring to that.

 

[DoubleTake]

They should just make make hitting someone with a melee attack in the start up of their healing animation put them into a shield break state. (But just the early frames, so it's not based on reaction)

No nonono with how latency works in these games that would be a disaster. On your screen you hit him on theirs they are a foot away and somehow still got guard broken.

There really isnt a good solution I can think of that wouldnt greatly affect how PvE works.

 

[Fuz]

So.
Game is great. Has some really amazing maps, interesting enemies, great encounters and an amazing art direction.
Too bad bosses are beautiful and interesting but you are forced to roll: you can't block even with 40 stamina or you'll basically get stunlocked, if you roll while blocking an attack you roll after the block ending up in the next swing (WHY?), and the camera is often TERRIBLE and will cost you many deaths (hello, King of Storms). For someone who always played a heavy warrior this whole business about shields and rolling is absolutely HORRIBLE. Terrible gameplay design on this. Why change something that worked so well?
Slow weapons have been mistreated too, they don't do enough damage to compensate the speed and the way they leave you open to blows.
In DS1 when I died I always thogth "I'm an idiot" or "I shouldn't do that" and never blamed the game because it was always fair, and this was fantastic and gave a great feeling of overcoming something, here's - thanks to that stupid design mechanics - doesn't really happen. Game is not as fair as DS1, at all.
Also it's way more linear than DS1 and the maps aren't as beautifully connected as in that.
A bit too much fanservice too. But nothing major.

It's great, but DS1 is still the best DS.

 

[DoubleTake]

...what

With the right rune setup in Bloodborne you could recover a decent amount of hp with visceral attacks.

Certain Runes gave you health from Visceral attacks, he's probably referring to that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH7jQhtK258

 

[Ferr986]

...what

You could punish someone healing shooting them while they're chugging. They'll stagger and you could riposte them.

Something needed in this game, if you ask me.

The only thing I see as a problem there is the blue covenants. The invasions are fine. You invade prepare to face multiple people, its life. If your not good enough for that do duels to gain tongues.

Phantom hits in PvP have always been a thing, nothing new there.

Chuggin is punishable, just a bit more difficult than the other games. You have to be on point and always hounding them. Remember they have trouble punishing you as well, its not a one way street. If they change how estus works they have to change how bosses and enemies work. These games arent only PvP experiences. I'll take downsides in the PvP department so long as the PvE is amazing and works well.

I mean, sure, I agree on the PvP. It's just that this is the game where I found most ganks by far. But I can take it because, of course, I'm invading.

Chugging needs a BB styled parry.

I can take downsided on PvP for PvE but feels like this game is the one that took the most, and sometimes it wasn't needed. i feel like the game took a little too much on the fast paced BB combat without properly introduced them in a DS game (mind you I love BB, fav game in the series after DS1).

Of course that's just my opinion and I may be biased right now because I'm having a bad day on the game today lol