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[Sentenza]

Don't use fast travel?

Bullshit solution?
Beside the fact that if it's there I'm going to use, as I'm not going to subject myself to a disadvantage, the problem is how you are going to design an open world and its content when you give such an option for granted.

Simple solution for you: don't use it! My friend never used fast travel in Skyrim for the same reasons you bring up.

Your friend must be a hell of a masochist, considering how almost any stupid trivial quest in Skyrim essentially forces you to travel through half continent, which is exactly the problem I was mentioning just above.

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

Bullshit solution?
Beside the fact that if it's there I'm going to use, as I'm not going to subject myself to a disadvantage, the problem is how you are going to design an open world and its content when you give such an option for granted.

I didn't think there would be a complaint about fast travel

For a huge world to travel, it'd be a bit tedious traveling back and forth, no? Especially in a game where it encourages you to return to previous areas once you acquire new tools.

 

[Sentenza]

I didn't think there would be a complaint about fast travel

For a huge world to travel, it'd be a bit tedious traveling back and forth, no?

And that's why people used to to design "networks" connecting different points on the map for fast travel. Or spells capable to port you instantly out of a dungeon, or "mark" and "recall" runes, etc.
I'm not saying that I want to walk every single step on my own and do the same for backtracking, too. I'm saying that I'm not very fond of the "teleport anywhere, at any moment" model for fast travel made popular by Oblivion and Skyrim. Which is an entirely different thing.

 

[Dahbomb]

After playing Darksiders the final quest made me sorely wish for a fast travel option.

 

[Cameron122]

Quick question. I'm replaying Darksiders on PC, originally played it on PS3, I probably won't be able to beat the game in time for DS2. What's the reward for a Darksiders complete save file? Is it big?

 

[Sentenza]

After playing Darksiders the final quest made me sorely wish for a fast travel option.

I wasn't happy with DS1 backtracking too, but looking for collectables just made me wish for better traveling tools, not instant teleport anywhere.

The serpent tunnels were too few, boring to use, poorly displaced, and there were too many areas where I was forced to not use my horse without apparent reason.

 

[FtHTiny]

Quick question. I'm replaying Darksiders on PC, originally played it on PS3, I probably won't be able to beat the game in time for DS2. What's the reward for a Darksiders complete save file? Is it big?

Well you need the achievements in order for the bonus. So a save-file won´t do it alone.
And it´s a lvl 1 scythe and a lvl 5 armor so nothing to big.

 

[Meatvillain]

And that's why people used to to design "networks" connecting different points on the map for fast travel. Or spells capable to port you instantly out of a dungeon, or "mark" and "recall" runes, etc.
I'm not saying that I want to walk every single step on my own and do the same for backtracking, too. I'm saying that I'm not very fond of the "teleport anywhere, at any moment" model for fast travel made popular by Oblivion and Skyrim. Which is an entirely different thing.

I'm only coming in halfway through your discussion, but I'm confused about your issue with Darksiders 2 having a full quick travel over the system in place in the original game? What is the difference beyond the fact that one is more of an inconvenience?

 

[pa22word]

For a huge world to travel, it'd be a bit tedious traveling back and forth, no?

Then design a world that isn't a pain in the ass to traverse. If your world is big simply for the sake of it, what the hell is the point? Other than sticking it on the back of the box for marketing purposes, of course.

This is why this whole bethesda school of design needs to fall off a cliff and die, tbqh. Bigger does not always equal better, lots of content does not mean good content, quality will always be inherently better than quantity, etc

 

[Sentenza]

I'm only coming in halfway through your discussion, but I'm confused about your issue with Darksiders 2 having a full quick travel over the system in place in the original game? What is the difference beyond the fact that one is more of an inconvenience?

Few differences, actually:

- first things first: a bit of inconvenience isn't necessarily bad. If distances become completely meaningless, it takes away from the sense of scale of the world.
- second: excessive convenience can drive laziness. If the player can move anywhere at any point, a developer doesn't feel any urge to keep things interesting exploring the world. Cause, you know, you can skip everything and that's what most players are going to do.
- third, and direct consequence of the second point: it often affects design. See Skyrim, where the quest design is just atrocious, instant travel is taken for granted and even just delivering the wooden spoon to help the lone grandmother to eat her soup requires you to travel for miles.

Compare it with Risen or Gothic, where after a while you can access very fast and convenient ways to travel across the game's world, but traversing the land is always something and if you are given a quest, you are forced to move across big distances only when it's actually some big deal.

 

[Meatvillain]

Few differences, actually:

- first things first: a bit of inconvenience isn't necessarily bad. If distances become completely meaningless, it takes away from the sense of scale of the world.
- second: excessive convenience can drive laziness. If the player can move anywhere at any point, a developer doesn't feel any urge to keep things interesting exploring the world. Cause, you know, you can skip everything and that's what most players are going to do.
- third, and direct consequence of the second point: it often affects design. See Skyrim, where the quest design is just atrocious, instant travel is taken for granted and even just delivering the wooden spoon to help the lone grandmother to eat her soup requires you to travel for miles.

Compare it with Risen or Gothic, where after a while you can access very fast and convenient ways to travel across the game's world, but traversing the land is always something and if you are given a quest, you are forced to move across big distances only when it's actually some big deal.

You're talking a lot of sense.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Then design a world that isn't a pain in the ass to traverse. If your world is big simply for the sake of it, what the hell is the point? Other than sticking it on the back of the box for marketing purposes, of course.

This is why this whole bethesda school of design needs to fall off a cliff and die, tbqh. Bigger does not always equal better, lots of content does not mean good content, quality will always be inherently better than quantity, etc

I think you guys are missing the point. The huge world is supposed to be full of hidden dungeons and side quests. Just wanna stay on the crit path? Teleport where you need to go.

 

[Truant]

Steam VPN trick, here I come!

 

[Khezu]

I'm glad it has fast travel, I don't think a game like this really needs a giant open world.

I hope if there is a 3rd they go back to more DS1 scale, maybe a bit bigger.

 

[Maffis]

I'm glad it has fast travel, I don't think a game like this really needs a giant open world.

I hope if there is a 3rd they go back to more DS1 scale, maybe a bit bigger.

Hell no. Big open worlds filled with secrets is what I prefer.

 

[Cameron122]

Well you need the achievements in order for the bonus. So a save-file won´t do it alone.
And it´s a lvl 1 scythe and a lvl 5 armor so nothing to big.

Alright, so no big loss. Thanks man!

 

[sephi22]

So you have a problem with instant fast travel, but you can't force yourself to NOT use it if its available.
But if the game gives you some kind of lore/explanation/magical mumbo jumbo to explain it, you're okay with it?

To set things straight, you can't instantly travel anywhere. You can instantly fast travel to the town, and to the entrance of new areas/ dungeons. You still have to make your way into the dungeons themselves. Also it wont let you FT to every single thing in your map. For eg: you cant FT to chest locations or Vulgrim points

I cant explain how the dungeon FT works since i havent tried it yet. But i can say riding for 5 minutes through 4 loading screens just to reach the town wouldve been a bitch

 

[Sentenza]

So you have a problem with instant fast travel, but you can't force yourself to NOT use it if its available.

Yes.

But if the game gives you some kind of lore/explanation/magical mumbo jumbo to explain it, you're okay with it?

No.

 

[pa22word]

I think you guys are missing the point. The huge world is supposed to be full of hidden dungeons and side quests. Just wanna stay on the crit path? Teleport where you need to go.

Going 4x the size of the overworld in the first game sounds like Bethesda syndrome of procedural generated filler content to fill in the gaps of the occasional meaningless carrot on a stick style loot pickup.

So you have a problem with instant fast travel, but you can't force yourself to NOT use it if its available.

what part of: the game is designed with it in mind, is hard for you "well it's an option after all..." people to comprehend?

Like someone said of Skyrim earlier: the game has you often travel multiples of miles to do something totally arbitrary in the grand scheme of things, making that distance you ultimately are traversing completely meaningless.

 

[FtHTiny]

Still sad that i have to wait so long for no real reason...

 

[pa22word]

Still sad that i have to wait so long for no real reason...

I feel your pain man. Bought it from the THQ store and apparently they aren't dispatching keys for the preload on steam. Nothing like being punished for supporting them directly lol

And no, the free season pass is not really that big of a deal considering all the GMG deals I passed on that were giving the game away for 30-35 bones all last month, which + the cost of the season pass is +/- 50 anyways.

And yes, no preload is a big deal for me considering I have a 200 MB(yes, "MB")/s dl speed >__>

 

[demidar]

Yes.


No.

So I guess what you're trying to say is that fast travel should be used to complement traditional traveling (Morrowind) as opposed to being used as a crutch? (Skyrim/Oblivion) In which case I agree, if instant fast-travel is designed and used so nonchalantly, it makes the world feel small and - this is the worst thing about it - disjointed. Jumping around to key points over and over again makes the world feel like a bunch of boxes strung together through a menu, rather than a seamlessly connected world (barring loading screens)

 

[Sentenza]

EDIT: Fuck, double post.

 

[Sentenza]

So I guess what you're trying to say is that fast travel should be used to complement traditional traveling (Morrowind) as opposed to being used as a crutch? (Skyrim/Oblivion) In which case I agree, if instant fast-travel is designed and used so nonchalantly, it makes the world feel small and - this is the worst thing about it - disjointed. Jumping around to key points over and over again makes the world feel like a bunch of boxes strung together through a menu, rather than a seamlessly connected world (barring loading screens)

Bingo.
And as I already pointed, I'm not even talking about some uthopic, unrealistic result here.
There are a lot of games that handled this thing egregiously in the past.
Ultima, Gothic, Risen, Might and Magic, etc.

 

[pa22word]

Bingo.

Ultima

You know, despite how much the ES series aped from Underworld it's kinda sad that after nearly 20 years they still haven't managed to design a game even close to the intricate and thoughtful level design of Ultima Underworld

But that's a topic for another time I guess lol

As for Darksiders 2, I really hope the game doesn't fall into the besthesda trap in its overworld design.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Going 4x the size of the overworld in the first game sounds like Bethesda syndrome of procedural generated filler content to fill in the gaps of the occasional meaningless carrot on a stick style loot pickup.



what part of: the game is designed with it in mind, is hard for you "well it's an option after all..." people to comprehend?

Like someone said of Skyrim earlier: the game has you often travel multiples of miles to do something totally arbitrary in the grand scheme of things, making that distance you ultimately are traversing completely meaningless.

I'm still falling to see the problem. If you feel the open world is filler, skip around it.

if you want to explore, take the scenic route.

as for the loot, isnt that down to the individual? Personally, I don't see the loot as carrot on a stick because I'm in it for the combat above all. I probably will avoid high level loot for as long as I can so I can max out my combos. I don't really see how picking up loot could addictive, in fact that side of the game almost seems boring to me. Once i am at a decent level with all my weapons I will be way more interested in finding enough gold to buy all the combos than finding some god tier piece of loot.

but then again I'm not very interested in RPGs in general.

I think some of you guys are expecting full blown RPG conventions in what is a hybrid game at best.

not saying us action fans are being any less demanding though

 

[pa22word]

I'm still falling to see the problem. If you feel the open world is filler, skip around it.

so if I feel roughly 50% of the game's content is worthless, I should just skip it?

lovely

I think some of you guys are expecting full blown RPG conventions in what is a hybrid game at best.

No I'm wanting something well designed. Well designed overworlds are hardly an RPG convention. See: Ninja Gaiden, Banjo Kazooie, Dead Rising, Batman Arkham Asylum, etc

 

[demidar]

You know, despite how much the ES series aped from Underworld it's kinda sad that after nearly 20 years they still haven't managed to design a game even close to the intricate and thoughtful level design of Ultima Underworld

But that's a topic for another time I guess lol

As for Darksiders 2, I really hope the game doesn't fall into the besthesda trap in its overworld design.

Well just because you're aping something doesn't mean you know why the thing you're aping is what it is.

On topic does anyone have PC impressions?

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

so if I feel roughly 50% of the game's content is worthless, I should just skip it?

lovely

no different from picking one character in a fighter of 50. There are gonna be parts of any game you don't like. Why should people be forced to play what they would rather not so you can have some sense of satisfaction in doing things the long way?

Besides, unless your skipping dungeons (which I don't think you can) I dont see your point anyway. We are only talking about traversing the open world.

No I'm wanting something well designed. Well designed overworlds are hardly an RPG convention. See: Ninja Gaiden, Banjo Kazooie, Dead Rising, Batman Arkham Asylum, etc

Good design is relative. Like I said, the idea you can teleport around The world map is great for people who just are interested in the action. I don't want to spend 20 mins to get from point A to B for no reason. the ashlands and then the following iron canopy trek in DS1 nearly made me quit the game. So boring.

 

[Tonza]

So tempted to do the VPN to unlock this early. Really wouldn't want to wait another week.

But I would be really pissed if Valve bans me for it.

 

[Truant]

So tempted to do the VPN to unlock this early. Really wouldn't want to wait another week.

But I would be really pissed if Valve bans me for it.

They won't. You bought the game. What if you took your PC to america and logged onto Steam? They could never ban you for that. Same thing.

I've done the VPN trick for several games. Skyrim, Deus Ex are two pretty big ones.

 

[Erasus]

No install. No option to install either. Initial load is kinda long. Also loads a few seconds each time you die

Dammit, atleast have an optional install

 

[DryvBy]

So Amazon is not doing same day delivery. What's the best place for the preorder bonuses?

 

[Sidzed2]

I am stuck on a fairy late-game boss and I'm going crazy not being able to ask for tips / discuss it! Gggaaaaaaahhh!

 

[mxgt]

So tempted to do the VPN to unlock this early. Really wouldn't want to wait another week.

But I would be really pissed if Valve bans me for it.

I've used it multiple times and never been banned.

I'll be using it again here and nothing will happen

 

[FtHTiny]

hm, has this been talked about before. In the op it says Europe release is 21 but steam says 17 to me?

 

[DieH@rd]

I am stuck on a fairy late-game boss and I'm going crazy not being able to ask for tips / discuss it! Gggaaaaaaahhh!

We have spoiler thread. You can ask help there.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=40866830

hm, has this been talked about before. In the op it says Europe release is 21 but steam says 17 to me?

Some have 17th some 20th.

 

[YianGaruga]

hm, has this been talked about before. In the op it says Europe release is 21 but steam says 17 to me?

Germany, Switzerland and Austria have a release date of the 17th for some reason, while the rest of Europe has the 21st.

 

[Sidzed2]

We have spoiler thread. You can ask help there.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=40866830

Why thank you!

 

[Zeth]

What a week for games. Does the embargo end Tuesday?

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

So Amazon is not doing same day delivery. What's the best place for the preorder bonuses?

Best Buy:

$10 savings pass if ordered online using in-store pickup option.

• Angel of Death Pack: Give yourself an edge with a unique set of enhanced armor to better protect you from attacks. The armor features a heavenly design and includes a pair of upgraded matching scythes to improve your attack. Plus, you'll receive a colored FX trail for your trusty crow, Dust.

• Darksiders Ashcan Issue #0: You'll receive this prequel comic book from Dark Horse Comics featuring cover art by Joe Madureira and foil packaging.

• Argul's Tomb Expansion Pack: Free access to this expansion pack when it becomes available.

Pre-order Darksiders II and receive a code for the Angel of Death Xbox LIVE avatar character.

Offer valid for Reward Zone® Gamers Club members only. Code for avatar download will arrive via e-mail on or around street date.

50% off game guide.

 

[Str0ngStyle]

As for rating... It was good, but it was not "Thrawn trilogy good". [thrawn trilogy is IMO the absolute highpoint for "expanded universe" type of books for any videogame/movie IP].

I will also co sign on this statement. Read that sumbitch in high school. Almost 20 years later it is still the high point

 

[FtHTiny]

Germany, Switzerland and Austria have a release date of the 17th for some reason, while the rest of Europe has the 21st.

thanks, i guess beeing from austria is an advantage sometimes.

 

[DryvBy]

Best Buy:

I saw this but I can't find this deal on their website. Maybe I'm blind.

 

[Twinduct]

VPN in, Unlock, Go into offline mode, Come back online after a week.
Any cheap provider that can be recommended? Can't find a 'per-hour' dealo.

 

[_machine]

Can someone recommend/have a guide for an vpn activation service?

 

[Truant]

How long until the NA Steam release unlocks?

 

[Bittercup]

Germany, Switzerland and Austria have a release date of the 17th for some reason, while the rest of Europe has the 21st.

Oh that's annoying. I decided to order the superior French Collector's Edition but didn't notice that I now have to wait even longer I thought the 17th was for all EU countries.
At least just a few days... :/

 

[iNvid02]

How long until the NA Steam release unlocks?

15hrs

Can someone recommend/have a guide for an vpn activation service?

1. download and install tunnelbear from here: http://www.tunnelbear.com/

2. shut down steam or origin

3. start the vpn and choose US

4. open steam and it should unlock the game allowing you to play

5. switch to offline mode and stay offline until after release in your area - also shut down vpn now (for origin you can come back online as it doesnt check again)

 

[_machine]

1. download and install tunnelbear from here: http://www.tunnelbear.com/

2. shut down steam or origin

3. start the vpn and choose US

4. open steam and it should unlock the game allowing you to play

5. switch to offline mode and stay offline until after release in your area - also shut down vpn now

Thank you very much, sir!