Dating-Age |OT3| Positivity, Confidence, and Not Being a "Nice" Guy

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Though I'll note that eye contact is more likely to seem creepy (i.e. unnatural) if it's accompanied by low-status signals.

Back when I was a student at university, I took an improv class. One of the most useful things I got out of it was a list of high-status and low-status characteristics, for use in creating characters for improv scenes. Turned out to be pretty helpful for real life, too. :P

I played around a lot with these things, just walking around campus. Some general rules are that mixed high- and low-status signals often come off as weird or creepy, that high-status signals mixed with neutral come off weakened, as you'd expect, and that getting into status one-upmanship invites conflict, especially if you're not quite selling it. Oh, and that this stuff works enormously better with strangers--friends and people you know can be damn resistant to attempted changes in status, and are likely to subconsciously fight back.

High-status characteristics are mostly about confidence and having a large personal space:
-feet in a broad stance, shoulders back
-no defensive body language
-high eye-level (i.e. looking towards other people's heads or beyond rather than at your feet)
-economy of motion
-comfortable making physical contact with people
-decisive, willing to make decisions for others
-and of course, making and holding eye contact

Low-status characteristics are mostly about seeming small and invisible, or harmless:
-feet close together, shoulders hunched
-crossed arms, crossed legs, touching your own face
-low eye-level
-fidgeting
-avoid initiating physical contact
-look to others for permission or instructions
-avoid holding eye contact

I don't think this is a complete list, but it's what comes to mind. The important take-away isn't that you must adopt all the high-status characteristics, but that you should avoid the low-status ones.

Though do experiment with high status, it's fun. I've found that it's much easier to move through crowds using high status--shoulders back, long, evenly-paced strides, looking past the people walking towards you. Like, people get out of your way. Good times.
 
I forgot to mention that after the story I told earlier, I texted my friend that had walked up to talk to me when that happened. I basically said "God dammit, I was planning on pulling something like that other guy did." She thought that other guy was annoying. I'm not banking on this, but I'm kind of hoping they don't get along and I get another chance at this. It will be obvious since they are in the same class with me.
 
I forgot to mention that after the story I told earlier, I texted my friend that had walked up to talk to me when that happened. I basically said "God dammit, I was planning on pulling something like that other guy did." She thought that other guy was annoying. I'm not banking on this, but I'm kind of hoping they don't get along and I get another chance at this. It will be obvious since they are in the same class with me.

worth a shot right?
 
You need to be more aggressive. What is your current plan of action?

I think I agree with that, I've not really gone into things both feet first and perhaps they can sense that. After my previous ex, I've been really wary of getting in too deep and getting hurt. I need to wait and make sure someone is worth the risk before trying this shit again I guess.
 
I think I agree with that, I've not really gone into things both feet first and perhaps they can sense that. After my previous ex, I've been really wary of getting in too deep and getting hurt. I need to wait and make sure someone is worth the risk before trying this shit again I guess.

You never told me what is your plan of action
 
Though I'll note that eye contact is more likely to seem creepy (i.e. unnatural) if it's accompanied by low-status signals.

Back when I was a student at university, I took an improv class. One of the most useful things I got out of it was a list of high-status and low-status characteristics, for use in creating characters for improv scenes. Turned out to be pretty helpful for real life, too. :P

I played around a lot with these things, just walking around campus. Some general rules are that mixed high- and low-status signals often come off as weird or creepy, that high-status signals mixed with neutral come off weakened, as you'd expect, and that getting into status one-upmanship invites conflict, especially if you're not quite selling it. Oh, and that this stuff works enormously better with strangers--friends and people you know can be damn resistant to attempted changes in status, and are likely to subconsciously fight back.

High-status characteristics are mostly about confidence and having a large personal space:
-feet in a broad stance, shoulders back
-no defensive body language
-high eye-level (i.e. looking towards other people's heads or beyond rather than at your feet)
-economy of motion
-comfortable making physical contact with people
-decisive, willing to make decisions for others
-and of course, making and holding eye contact

Low-status characteristics are mostly about seeming small and invisible, or harmless:
-feet close together, shoulders hunched
-crossed arms, crossed legs, touching your own face
-low eye-level
-fidgeting
-avoid initiating physical contact
-look to others for permission or instructions
-avoid holding eye contact

I don't think this is a complete list, but it's what comes to mind. The important take-away isn't that you must adopt all the high-status characteristics, but that you should avoid the low-status ones.

Though do experiment with high status, it's fun. I've found that it's much easier to move through crowds using high status--shoulders back, long, evenly-paced strides, looking past the people walking towards you. Like, people get out of your way. Good times.
I am sure many people will come and thank you for this one.

You were a good boy. Sharing is caring. ^__^ Those are good things to pay attention and I would imagine quite easy to correct one by one.

Ah, I just think I got some explanations to the fact I have this far got every job I have ever applied.
 
When youre out approach girls you're not attracted to, introduce yourself, say hi whatever. Approach guys, say hi and whatever. Get your social ball rolling, be friendly and socialable with everyone. After doing this to start off your night your social confidence that night will be in beast mode.

That seems like some fun, would it be creepy if you did it in a store? Where would be a good place to start?

I was trying to get some short term confidence boosters so I can get it done right beforehand, usually music will do the trick but I can't really listen to music in class and still pay attention. So other than that game, do you know of anything I can do right before to pump myself up?
 
Low-status characteristics are mostly about seeming small and invisible, or harmless:
-crossed arms, crossed legs, touching your own face
-fidgeting
-avoid initiating physical contact
-avoid holding eye contact

Thanks for that I do a lot of the above and probably other indicators of low status characteristics. I think it started when I was a kid and would usually finish the work early and would just sit in class doodling, fidgeting, looking around me and just plain old daydreaming. It is now just a habit that I have and I usually default into daydreaming and the other stuff when I get bored or if I'm on my own. I will have to bear the high status characteristics in mind and actively do them. If you can remember any more it would be appreciated.
 
Oh man, I'm slowly starting to digg the singer girl. She is funny and so happy all the time, her laugh is fantastic. She's been to my place three times already and everytime I'm surprised how comfortable I am and how much fun I'm having. I could instantly make this into a relationship since she seems to be crazy about me.

She is a lot younger than me, but seems pretty mature. Guess I'll be seeing her and see how this developes, but not rushing into anything.

Going out with my ex tomorrow. It's pretty weird were at this situation, but I'm somewhat relieved. I can enjoy her company without the drama and problems.

Life is pretty stress free at the moment, I feel like I'm having the best years of my life.
 
Day after update. Started up a txt conversation on how her day went and she ended up asking me when I have more free time so I must be doing something right :)
 
Oh man, I'm slowly starting to digg the singer girl. She is funny and so happy all the time, her laugh is fantastic. She's been to my place three times already and everytime I'm surprised how comfortable I am and how much fun I'm having. I could instantly make this into a relationship since she seems to be crazy about me.

She is a lot younger than me, but seems pretty mature. Guess I'll be seeing her and see how this developes, but not rushing into anything.

Going out with my ex tomorrow. It's pretty weird were at this situation, but I'm somewhat relieved. I can enjoy her company without the drama and problems.

Life is pretty stress free at the moment, I feel like I'm having the best years of my life.

Have you kissed her?
 
Go to the birthday party first and don't show up too early. It shows you have other (social) things to do and are not running after her like a puppy.
Bail early from the birthday party = 11p-12a. It's a good friend I'm not missing her birthday over a date i am just setting up. I've already told her Friday doesn't work so she's not expecting me. Depending how the birthday is going i might text her and see what's up.
 
Man I've been out of the loop for so long I almost forgot how to talk to girls god damn. Talked to this really cute chick at one of my classes as we left class. She seemed like in a hurry or not so much hurry but had something to do. As she was walking away I just called out her name so she would turn and wait for me. Just started talking about shit from class, complimenting her work etc, stuff that happened in class and asked her what her major was since I thought she was from a specific major because of her amazing work but turns out she's from something totally unrelated. Anyways didn't have much time to talk because it was only from the class room to the parking lot and we had to part ways there. She seemed nice and all just not enough time to really do much or notice much. I shall see as time goes by, gotta talk more to her.
 
Man I've been out of the loop for so long I almost forgot how to talk to girls god damn. Talked to this really cute chick at one of my classes as we left class. She seemed like in a hurry or not so much hurry but had something to do. As she was walking away I just called out her name so she would turn and wait for me. Just started talking about shit from class, complimenting her work etc, stuff that happened in class and asked her what her major was since I thought she was from a specific major because of her amazing work but turns out she's from something totally unrelated. Anyways didn't have much time to talk because it was only from the class room to the parking lot and we had to part ways there. She seemed nice and all just not enough time to really do much or notice much. I shall see as time goes by, gotta talk more to her.
Well that was pretty cool.

After finishing my midterm this one cute girl in my class was waiting outside the room. We've briefly talked before, nothing major. Anyways, she notices me and we start chatting about how the test went. We kept chatting and next thing I know we've been standing in the hall talking for 30 mins. I got to learn a little bit about her (couple of things she likes, what her major is, basic stuff) and the best part was that I was acting cool the whole time. Wasn't nervous or shy at all. Even made her laugh a couple of times. Feels good man. She then said she had to go, so we parted ways. Needless to say, I'm looking forward to that class more often now.

You both have to ask them out:
"You are cool, I'm gonna get pancakes, wanna come with me?"
 
There's this really cute girl in my class that happens to have the same major as me, and we have been in three classes together. We have worked in group projects before, and we have exchanged numbers to communicate with group projects.

Today, she asked me if I could help her out with the homework that neither of us had done, and I agreed. We got some coffee and suggested we have lunch as we do our work because she has four classes in a row and we were both skipping out on our class to do this work. We struck up a casual conversation about where she works and exercising and stuff.

I think I realized about a few weeks ago that I'm interested in her, but I don't know what kind of chance I'll have. I decided that nothing ventured, nothing gained, and said fuck it. After we had our last class together I sent her a text thanking her for today and hanging out with her made my not so great week so much better.

I don't know if she has a boyfriend, so I want to go for it. I just don't want to come off too strong and ending up creeping her out or scaring her off. Bleh. Don't know what to do next or where I stand.
 
-don't give total body language to a girl right away. as in just move your head towards her to say hi, face your body towards her only after she turns her body towards you first.
So don't act like a dog does to another dog, act like a cat does to it's owner, gotcha.

Btw cats are retarded. I love petting them but I hate cat personalities.

I am also not very comfortable making physical contact with people in general unless I know them or if they do it to me first. I barely touch bros past anything more than a high five or brofist. A high five with a random person makes me hesitate for like half a second

Low-status characteristics are mostly about seeming small and invisible, or harmless:
-feet close together, shoulders hunched
-crossed arms, crossed legs, touching your own face
-low eye-level
-fidgeting
-avoid initiating physical contact
-look to others for permission or instructions
-avoid holding eye contact

Yup. I do everything on this list frequently
 
There's this really cute girl in my class that happens to have the same major as me, and we have been in three classes together. We have worked in group projects before, and we have exchanged numbers to communicate with group projects.

Today, she asked me if I could help her out with the homework that neither of us had done, and I agreed. We got some coffee and suggested we have lunch as we do our work because she has four classes in a row and we were both skipping out on our class to do this work. We struck up a casual conversation about where she works and exercising and stuff.

I think I realized about a few weeks ago that I'm interested in her, but I don't know what kind of chance I'll have. I decided that nothing ventured, nothing gained, and said fuck it. After we had our last class together I sent her a text thanking her for today and hanging out with her made my not so great week so much better.

I don't know if she has a boyfriend, so I want to go for it. I just don't want to come off too strong and ending up creeping her out or scaring her off. Bleh. Don't know what to do next or where I stand.

i would feel creepier sending that text vs a 'hey, today was fun. lets do it again, minus the school work. does thursday night drinks work for you?'
saying that having a platonic working lunch made your entire week better makes you seem desperate and like you have no other options in the female department, imo.
 
i would feel creepier sending that text vs a 'hey, today was fun. lets do it again, minus the school work. does thursday night drinks work for you?'
saying that having a platonic working lunch made your entire week better makes you seem desperate and like you have no other options in the female department, imo.

Agreed. Texting is cowardly. Go up and talk to her, confident and friendly, and ask her if she's doing something on X day and would like to grab a drink.
 
Agreed. Texting is cowardly. Go up and talk to her, confident and friendly, and ask her if she's doing something on X day and would like to grab a drink.

ah i was just talking about changing the language of the text. skipping texting altogether is an even better step.
 
I tried the eye contact thing about twenty minutes ago. It was weird. I made a joke, and she laughed, but I don't know if she laughed cause she found it amusing or because she's the check-out girl and she has to placate the customer's crappy joke.
 
I can TOTALLY see what you did wrong from your post...


.
.
.


:|

hes saying he already fucked it up because mine and grumble's replies didnt approve of his text

Aaahhh god damn it. I already fucked it up!

you didnt already fuck it up, just couldve phrased it better. still do what grumble said. be straightforward, dont pussyfoot around your phrasing and make sure its clear you want to get to know her better cause you're interested. as a test to see if what youre thinking of saying is appropriate, phrase it so that if she did have a boyfriend she would tell you and say no. girls with boyfriends are fine with going for coffee with friends. they aren't fine with going on coffee dates though. (hopefully)

I tried the eye contact thing about twenty minutes ago. It was weird. I made a joke, and she laughed, but I don't know if she laughed cause she found it amusing or because she's the check-out girl and she has to placate the customer's crappy joke.

lol what, you should already be making eye contact with cashiers and such...
 
You both have to ask them out:
"You are cool, I'm gonna get pancakes, wanna come with me?"

Ha. You and your pancakes.


Anyway this girl who told me she's dealing with a bunch of shit in her life texted me this novel running in circles, telling me she loves that we have fun together and that I take an interest in her life (amazing how much you surprise them by listening to what they say and remembering it) blah blah blah I did nothing wrong, it's all her and other crap.. Kind of annoying really...

Why cant she just be upfront and honest without sugar coating it with bs? Not getting involved and I'm letting things be now, but it kind of just caught me off guard with this out of the blue novel she sent me whilst I was at work.
 
Ha. You and your pancakes.


Anyway this girl who told me she's dealing with a bunch of shit in her life texted me this novel running in circles, telling me she loves that we have fun together and that I take an interest in her life (amazing how much you surprise them by listening to what they say and remembering it) blah blah blah I did nothing wrong, it's all her and other crap.. Kind of annoying really...

Why cant she just be upfront and honest without sugar coating it with bs? Not getting involved and I'm letting things be now, but it kind of just caught me off guard with this out of the blue novel she sent me whilst I was at work.

It would be hilarious if you were like:

[lengthy thesis about our friendship]
Notrollious: "mmm yeah, so I'm hungry, up for a hotdog?"
 
It would be hilarious if you were like:

[lengthy thesis about our friendship]
Notrollious: "mmm yeah, so I'm hungry, up for a hotdog?"

Ha, honestly I would've done that if I had thought of it. Damnit... I did respond with a simple "I understand, take care of your life. That's most important" and left it at that. Not nearly as good as yours.
 
The last couple of pages are rather embarrassing for me to look at, to say the least. I think that's what happens when two radically different belief systems clash in one thread. And honestly, until I posted in here, I was proud of the way I looked. It's not that I don't care about myself, but I genuinely feel comfortable with my "punk" look. That said, I can and will make some adjustments and improvements.
Forget about the looks. Yeah, a neckbeard looks really stupid and it's hard to pull off. But with some confidence and a lot of inner work, it wouldn't hold anyone back. I'm not saying you should keep it, but I'm saying the root problem isn't with facial hair. The fact that you feel embarrassed over everything you've written is a good thing. I interpret that as you're learning new things and are changing in some way. Into what, I don't know. But change is rarely a bad thing. Feeling comfortable and too comfortable with a look, style or whatever is thin line we all walk in life. If you truly don't know much about women and/or socializing, I suggest you start reading up on these subjects. Please try your hardest to keep an open mind, for the simple reason that what you've been doing have probably been working pretty poorly. Thus, the opposite should work wonders, right? You don't have to agree with the stuff that PUA teaches, it's not required. It is however new information and I think that's exactly what you need. Attitude wise, I see an older self in certain things you say, and guess what, you need to let go of these firm beliefs. A lot of them are only there because "they should be".

You seem to be accepting the help we give here, and that's a huge step forward that quite a few haven't taken yet. So you're already ahead of the curve, and how hard was that, really? :) Yes, I'm one of the few (?) that like PUA in here. There are shady things about it, or rather shady people imho, but it also teaches a lot of useful things, things that have been mentioned since the post I'm quoting now. Stick around :) If you want the help, you'll get it from everyone here.

Edit: And of course, you'll see Brent Smith videos pop up in here every now and then. Watch them. Listen, whether or not you agree. As the punk guy you are, I assume you already know how to not give a shit about certain things. So that'll help :)
 
Awesome man!

If I were to give you a mission, I'd want you to go out as a 70's pornstar (John Holmes), with a big fake slong (rubbery dildo) in your pants, with musical interest and act like nothing.
Why would I need to fake it? ;)

What concert?
From experience head to the front row of the crowd.
At Glastonbury I would leave my friends as there were people only id want to see and I could go up the side and along the front and be front row, within 6ft of the Djs etc.

Also more often than not there are girls up there with the same goal and its pretty easy to say hi when you are in the situation.

Oh and its genrally more fun and you can feed of others energy, Actually the more I think about it I run off to the front row quite alot..
The only girls there were with their boyfriends, but I didn't mind.

I went for the music, and had an absolute blast! I just hope my ears stop ringing soon...
 
Forget about the looks. Yeah, a neckbeard looks really stupid and it's hard to pull off. But with some confidence and a lot of inner work, it wouldn't hold anyone back. I'm not saying you should keep it, but I'm saying the root problem isn't with facial hair. The fact that you feel embarrassed over everything you've written is a good thing. I interpret that as you're learning new things and are changing in some way. Into what, I don't know. But change is rarely a bad thing. Feeling comfortable and too comfortable with a look, style or whatever is thin line we all walk in life. If you truly don't know much about women and/or socializing, I suggest you start reading up on these subjects. Please try your hardest to keep an open mind, for the simple reason that what you've been doing have probably been working pretty poorly. Thus, the opposite should work wonders, right? You don't have to agree with the stuff that PUA teaches, it's not required. It is however new information and I think that's exactly what you need. Attitude wise, I see an older self in certain things you say, and guess what, you need to let go of these firm beliefs. A lot of them are only there because "they should be".

You seem to be accepting the help we give here, and that's a huge step forward that quite a few haven't taken yet. So you're already ahead of the curve, and how hard was that, really? :) Yes, I'm one of the few (?) that like PUA in here. There are shady things about it, or rather shady people imho, but it also teaches a lot of useful things, things that have been mentioned since the post I'm quoting now. Stick around :) If you want the help, you'll get it from everyone here.

Edit: And of course, you'll see Brent smith videos pop up in here every now and then. Watch them. Listen, whether or not you agree. As a punk guy you are, I assume you already know how to not give a shit about certain things. So that'll help :)

Oh my Swedish friend, when you are right, you are right.

Hey RawPower, I've been there. It's a hell of a shock when your view of yourself is stripped apart. It's like building a muscle, break it down and it will rebuild itself stronger.

Perhaps not the best analogy, but it's all I got. But becoming aware of your flaws is the easy part... it's doing something about them that takes a bit more effort.
 
My friend has set me up on a blind date with one of his Girlfriends friend. I've texted this girl back and forth for a few days now and I'm really not feeling it (a mix of her being in High school, living far away ,and a bad experience with a 17 year old before) I don't really know how to tell her I'm not interested without coming across as a dick. Any advice?
 
My friend has set me up on a blind date with one of his Girlfriends friend. I've texted this girl back and forth for a few days now and I'm really not feeling it (a mix of her being in High school, living far away ,and a bad experience with a 17 year old before) I don't really know how to tell her I'm not interested without coming across as a dick. Any advice?
Go to the date. Have fun. Don't call her
 
Though I'll note that eye contact is more likely to seem creepy (i.e. unnatural) if it's accompanied by low-status signals.

Back when I was a student at university, I took an improv class. One of the most useful things I got out of it was a list of high-status and low-status characteristics, for use in creating characters for improv scenes. Turned out to be pretty helpful for real life, too. :P

I played around a lot with these things, just walking around campus. Some general rules are that mixed high- and low-status signals often come off as weird or creepy, that high-status signals mixed with neutral come off weakened, as you'd expect, and that getting into status one-upmanship invites conflict, especially if you're not quite selling it. Oh, and that this stuff works enormously better with strangers--friends and people you know can be damn resistant to attempted changes in status, and are likely to subconsciously fight back.

High-status characteristics are mostly about confidence and having a large personal space:
-feet in a broad stance, shoulders back
-no defensive body language
-high eye-level (i.e. looking towards other people's heads or beyond rather than at your feet)
-economy of motion
-comfortable making physical contact with people
-decisive, willing to make decisions for others
-and of course, making and holding eye contact

Low-status characteristics are mostly about seeming small and invisible, or harmless:
-feet close together, shoulders hunched
-crossed arms, crossed legs, touching your own face
-low eye-level
-fidgeting
-avoid initiating physical contact
-look to others for permission or instructions
-avoid holding eye contact

I don't think this is a complete list, but it's what comes to mind. The important take-away isn't that you must adopt all the high-status characteristics, but that you should avoid the low-status ones.

Though do experiment with high status, it's fun. I've found that it's much easier to move through crowds using high status--shoulders back, long, evenly-paced strides, looking past the people walking towards you. Like, people get out of your way. Good times.
FUCK.

I was reading this list and noticed I was doing a lot of the low-status stuff even when reading it. D:
 
Oh my Swedish friend, when you are right, you are right.

Hey RawPower, I've been there. It's a hell of a shock when your view of yourself is stripped apart. It's like building a muscle, break it down and it will rebuild itself stronger.

Perhaps not the best analogy, but it's all I got. But becoming aware of your flaws is the easy part... it's doing something about them that takes a bit more effort.
Thanks, man, I try :) I'm taking this stuff more seriously than school for the time being (unfortunately for my career perhaps, but I feel I have to). Seems like a fair analogy. Doing something is hard if you resist it, which unfortunately is usually the automated response. But in the end, it's only harder because one thinks it is. A gym buddy of mine has recently been dumped by the girlfriend he lives with and of course, he's feeling miserable. He says he'll feel better when she moves out soon. Why can't he feel better NOW? I told him to stop feeling sad right now but he says it's hard, when in fact it's not. I want to smack him over the head but I can't :lol

My friend has set me up on a blind date with one of his Girlfriends friend. I've texted this girl back and forth for a few days now and I'm really not feeling it (a mix of her being in High school, living far away ,and a bad experience with a 17 year old before) I don't really know how to tell her I'm not interested without coming across as a dick. Any advice?
She could be the girl of your dreams if you just met her. Not feeling it after a few text messages doesn't mean anything necessarily. At the very least, you could be losing out on a good time. You're being a tad judgemental here :)
 
The last 100 posts or so have been quite informational and have made me want to make some changes. That high-low status post was particularly useful.

There's a girl I may be interested in, (she's a friend of a girl that turned me down, seriously, don't always throw away the ones that turn you down) so that's an option. Possibility I won't see her again for a while though. I'm also somewhat hesitant because she's almost 7 years older than me (23 and 29) and was previously engaged to someone which ended about a year ago. A year is quite a while though.
 
She could be the girl of your dreams if you just met her. Not feeling it after a few text messages doesn't mean anything necessarily. At the very least, you could be losing out on a good time. You're being a tad judgemental here :)

I think I'm just freaking out a bit, as I've never been on a blind date before.
 
He challenged me to a game of pool in front of them, which I refused and said Im only here to observe. He then went on to compliment me on my clothes saying that I look like Im a great pool player. He kept pushing, but I kinda flinched because Im not experienced with going head to head on another player and alpha male'ing them. He then displayed, disqualified me as not being man enough to take a challenge, re-positioning him as the alpha leader.

Later on he used me as social proof to further his power in the game he was playing, when I walked over to him, sat down and told him "I see what hes going for". He then proceeded to raise his voice slightly higher to reaffirm that he still didnt see me as an equal.

He even told me he was all natural and just drunk, with no idea of what he was doing when I busted him on it, which is bullshit.

He was pretty much controlling all the girls (about 8 in the beginning - later 3-4 before I noticed what he was up to) and positioning every guy approaching him or them as a beta male unworthy of women.

What was most impressive that I learned from it was how he did all of this with marginal physical touching. Despite using alot of sexual innuendo, suggestive talk and not being afraid of expressing his sexual desire and openess.

He build up so much sexual tension all the girls were so attracted to him like flies to the nastiest, most nutricient, rich, juiciest, most moist turd you can imagine.

In the end, being as I could see my level was not as high as his I observed and learned instead.

-------------------------------------

Despressing? I take it as a learning experience. Its exciting and fun.

I rarely devalue another guy, unless he really deserves it. Some times I do it unintentionally and discover new ways to do it. Besides, Ive rarely come across another player. Maybe three times at most have I identified players. Most guys just improvise.

Same with women, if they treat me nicely, then I return that favor.

By the way Walrus, if you are willing we could meet up some time if youre in Copenhagen.

Sorry for the long winded reply. Forgot about this thread.

Yeah, highluxury, I'm in Copenhagen actually, though I have never meet a GAFer in real life before. Well, that's not true. I went to film school with a guy from sweden who also is on GAF. But not the OT side, if I recall.






You have a good point about taking these things as a learning experience. After all, facing failure it's the most productive thing you can do. Nobody said that learning anything worthwhile was supposed to be easy. And if it was that easy, maybe it wouldn't be that worthwhile.
I have a friend, who is very good with women. He is very... physical. Lots of hugs, and touching. Even with his girl-friends. He is a good guy, but he just has this player nature in him that makes him flirt with anyone. And to top it up, he has good looks and sort of metro sexual fashion style.
His successful endevours have almost become a luxury problem for him, but he is not immune to getting hurt.
When rejected, in the face, of someone who seemingly was not that important to him to begin with, could lunge him into anger, and hostility, even though he has a gift that most would die for.
It just goes to show, that being successful at something does not mean that it won't hurt, or be difficult and even painful in other ways.
Finally he also taught me, that there is something to appreciate it in working for it.

If you go to the dance floor at a bar with dancing. What do you see? You see a few men with guts to go out and dance, or to approach women. Pick-up artists often label these guys "Alpha".
Does that mean that all the guys who sit in the bar stools at the bar just starring into their drinks while complaining about their favorite metal band not being played as opposed to the pop tunes that make all the pretty blondes go on the floor?

Is it really that different from the shit that goes on in nature.
Males display their feathers, their prowess, their tusks, their mating dance, their signing, whatever - Countless species have their own way of woo-ing their female, and they also choose.
When I started looking at it this way (though it might be a shitty comparison), it sort of just clicked for me. I used to be disappointed in women for being so superficial and "shallow". But that's an unfair label to put on everyone. Particularly if this stuff is wired to biology.
Also in the face that women who are 8's, 9's or 10's have the right to choose. I am sure that even the most unsuccessful guys here dating-wise, would be able to find a less attractive women, if they would settle for that(perhaps someone who is a 5 or a 6), but we too are superficial and very visual, which is also a biology thing. I know that none of this is new shit.

I just recently thought this when reading about the origin of Diogenes and Cynicism. Turns out that the origin of cynicism was not what it is today. That these days, we use it almost like narcissism. And I think us men (and women too) coin these terms a lot. We judge the entire gender, when we get hurt and scolded, and perhaps that could also be were we should take heat of following pick-up artists advice 100%.
 
Field Report:

Yesterday my company had a convention and I met this new girl that started a couple weeks ago.

When I got there I was feeling pretty beast in my athletic fit Star Wars t-shirt I got from Target. As I was checking in I detected a proximity alert and I had a feeling she had been checking me out.

Later on I introduced myself while walking the floor. Then I found a booth that had an Xbox Kinect set up for people to play Dance Central. A crowd had gathered around watching people play and she was there. I moved into position like Ezio from Assassins Creed. Weaving in and out of the bodies to work my way to the front of the crowd. When the last person finished I stepped up to the plate never playing this game before in my life. I had to let all my fears go of embarrassing myself and I knew I had to show a positive energy. I danced to that stupid I wave my hair back and forth song and then all of a sudden the free style part came up. I pulled off a pretty cool dance and the crowd cheered for me. Later on in the evening she even made a comment about my dancing skills.

After dinner I met her at the after hours party and started chatting her up. They had corn hole stations set up so I invited her to join me. At first we were on the same team, but that put us on opposite ends so I had to eventually get another partner so we could play on the same end. When we started playing I made sure to escalate kino by giving her high fives and one armed hugs through out the games. The games were actually really close and provided lots of opportunities to tease her when she messed up.

I also made sure I moved around the room and mingled with other people to show off my social value. I was even doing kino on other girls as they wanted to get pictures and dance. By the end of the night I got her one on one so we could get to know each other and I found out she likes basketball. I used this to try and set up our first date.

There is a basketball game tomorrow night at the college she used to go so today I asked her if she wanted to go. She said she would LOVE to. I got her number so I could call/text her later when I got the tickets. I felt like Jordan in the 4th qtr. with 10 seconds left in the game. I knew I was going to score. Tomorrow night we're set up to out after work and get some food then head to the game. I'm going to go for more kino escalation and go for the kiss close.

TL DR: Met some girl at company convention and got a date with her tomorrow night. Feels good man.
 
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