This. Just because I love cake doesn't mean I'll eat a slice when offered.
Dating-Age |OT3| Positivity, Confidence, and Not Being a "Nice" Guy
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This. Just because I love cake doesn't mean I'll eat a slice when offered.
shanshan310
Member
Yarp, I've heard this one a few times. I guess some people can't just see friends as friends.
Yeah the 'men only talk to women because they are trying to weasel their way into some sex' doesn't really do yourselves any favours.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
That's a pretty spot-on comparison.
Some people will always try to grab a piece of cake if presented with one, despite how bad it is for them and how fat it'll make them.
I'm 28, maybe it's different in your teens or whatever.
I agree that it is helpful, and I've had female friends, I just know they were only friends because I knew I'd bang them if I cared to try. Ugly women mysteriously don't ever have male friends, just much more attractive female friends. The "mysteries" of life...
Arjen
Member
I have a real close female friend, and we both know a relationship between us would never work, and being friends is the best thing for us.
Why is it that every post I quote have an edit with an "in before..." =P
I'm 30. I DON'T think all men just want to bone any woman he sees (friends included) In fact, I'm probably one of the few guys who would turn down sex on a first date. I have to love someone in order to do so.
But I do think that a friendship between a guy and girl is different between a guy and a guy or a girl and a girl. Do I think guys and girls can be friends? Sure. But in my opinion I don't think a guy and girl can be best friends. I used to think they can when I was younger, but more often than not one of the two will start developing feelings for the other... usually the guy in my experience.
Edit: Though it had worked out with two of my friends. They are now married to their best friends.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
That was precisely what I was thinking, that the only reason you couldn't befriend females without thinking of sex is if you're still in your teens and still a hormonal bomb.
As for any lust or romantic feelings you might develop, that's not an issue if you consider her/him almost as a sibling, or simply value friendship over a tryst that might ruin the friendship.
Omegasquash
Member
Ehhhh....were you ever part of an ostracized group of people? And to say that they were only friends because you'd bang them if you cared to try?
Dude. Even when I was single I valued friendship regardless of gender. Were there one or two examples within those groups that I thought were attractive? You bet. Did I also realize that if I got some I risked changing the dynamic that already existed? For sure.
Point is, your view is not universally applicable, and putting labels out there doesn't help anyone. You have your view and outlook and philosophy in action (and I'm not saying you're a bad person for having it at all), but it isn't the same for everyone.
I could see in your teens having a female study buddy or something, but when you're older, there really is no reason for a female friend unless you would have sex with them if the opportunity arises. Zero reason.
Women make horrible friends. That is due to either the men asking for very little in return and just being happy there's a woman in their presence, or the woman doing very little in return, and just being happy there is a guy in her presence that can save her in a moment of distress.
Again, if you see two people of the opposite sex being very close friends, and either or both of them are even semi-attractive, then one party is secretly attracted to the other.
This is why men become friends with women. The chance of this happening.
wat? how about common interests? none of my friends are interested in photography but I know one girl who digs it and we talk about this stuff a lot, go to exhibitions together, put some scenes together. She has a BF though, so I don't know if I would if I could but her love for photography is the main reason why we still talk on a regular basis.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Your reasoning is pretty out there I must admit, that you think it's less likely for a hormonal teen to have a friend of the opposite sex without wanting to have sex with them if the opportunity arises than an adult.
There are plenty of reasons to have a female friend, same as the reasons you might have a male friend and they make no better no worse friends than guys. I'm guessing you haven't ever managed to properly befriend a gal because you've looked upon her with lustful feelings from the very start, and let those dictate your actions and views.
There, I cancel out your subjective claim with one of my own.
MadraptorMan
Member
Hey guys. I thought I'd share my current situation in hopes of getting some sort of advice or at least input:
First of all, I'm from the US but live in Japan, speak Japanese fine, and haven't had a real girlfriend in almost two years (though I wasn't really looking for the first year and half or so...bad breakup). Lately I've really been wanting to change that.
Early last month I ran into a girl at a "foreigner bar" who is interested in going to Canada a year from now. I already posted once about her (no replies though lol), but she's really cute and I'm very interested in her. We've met twice but I didn't manage to make any sort of impression on her those times, except for maybe being a friendly guy. I didn't try to give any specific attention to her (both times were in a party-like environment), but I did suggest getting dinner once before going to the same bar again (which ended up not happening at all) but I've now arranged to meet her and one or two of my close friends (all of whom know I am interested in this girl) every Saturday for a free casual English lesson. I also got her to come to a farewell party for a friend at the end of the month...but that's also mostly under the pretense that there will be foreigners there so she can possibly speak English.
The girl responds very positively to any chance to learn English, which I think is fine, but I also get the feeling she isn't looking for someone to date at all, so I think it's a difficult situation. I think for now my best option is to keep things strictly on a friendly "let's learn English" level and hope that it evolves into something more. The issue is, I'm worried about how to go about taking it to a more personal one-on-one thing. I suppose I should be thankful that I've managed to set up a way to see her every week, right? Maybe all I can do is see how it goes...but I want to do my best to get her interested in me.
I guess there's a question buried in there somewhere, but...I think I'm just looking for some general advice on how I can possibly get her interested in me as more than simply a way to learn English. We have a lot in common in terms of musical taste...almost uncannily so, but I don't know her all too well beyond that. Thanks in advance for any input.
First of all, I'm from the US but live in Japan, speak Japanese fine, and haven't had a real girlfriend in almost two years (though I wasn't really looking for the first year and half or so...bad breakup). Lately I've really been wanting to change that.
Early last month I ran into a girl at a "foreigner bar" who is interested in going to Canada a year from now. I already posted once about her (no replies though lol), but she's really cute and I'm very interested in her. We've met twice but I didn't manage to make any sort of impression on her those times, except for maybe being a friendly guy. I didn't try to give any specific attention to her (both times were in a party-like environment), but I did suggest getting dinner once before going to the same bar again (which ended up not happening at all) but I've now arranged to meet her and one or two of my close friends (all of whom know I am interested in this girl) every Saturday for a free casual English lesson. I also got her to come to a farewell party for a friend at the end of the month...but that's also mostly under the pretense that there will be foreigners there so she can possibly speak English.
The girl responds very positively to any chance to learn English, which I think is fine, but I also get the feeling she isn't looking for someone to date at all, so I think it's a difficult situation. I think for now my best option is to keep things strictly on a friendly "let's learn English" level and hope that it evolves into something more. The issue is, I'm worried about how to go about taking it to a more personal one-on-one thing. I suppose I should be thankful that I've managed to set up a way to see her every week, right? Maybe all I can do is see how it goes...but I want to do my best to get her interested in me.
I guess there's a question buried in there somewhere, but...I think I'm just looking for some general advice on how I can possibly get her interested in me as more than simply a way to learn English. We have a lot in common in terms of musical taste...almost uncannily so, but I don't know her all too well beyond that. Thanks in advance for any input.
How many women are you friends with, friends meaning you tell your personal information to and can depend on when you're in trouble, and vice versa? Be honest. Then of those, how many are you not at all physically attracted to and aren't secretly wishing for more?
If the answer is 1 or greater, then maybe I'm wrong and there are guys out there just...being friends with women I guess.
shanshan310
Member
If there's no reason to have female friends, why have any friends at all? There are certain types of women I have no interest in befriending either. If the world was made up of bimbos and bros I would totally understand. I befriend people, because I like them and we have things in common (that may or may not include us both having tits).
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Dude, get a bit up-front about your feelings and try to ask her out for a more casual one-on-one date instead of these group gatherings in which you're not conveying your interest in her as a mate.
It'd be more fair on her and yourself then this somewhat sneaky plan of getting into her heart.
MadraptorMan
Member
I'm just worried that all she is interested in is learning English, and would instantly turn down any kind of personal meeting at this stage.
Always enjoyed the "Can Guys & Gals be Friends?" debate. 
Agreed. Now that I'm older, I'm also of the mindset that 2 single, attractive people who get along well can't be true friends because feelings eventually get in the way. The majority of guy "friends" will absolutely jump on the chance to smang a female "friend" if she offered sex to him.
The way I always looked at the situation was that if I got along well enough with an attractive (because they always were) female to consider her a friend, then why wouldn't I want to date her? I've always had enough male friends. I'm not lacking in companionship, and I have far more in common with guys by default.
But yes, when I was younger (college and a couple years after), I too thought it was possible for guys & gals to be friends. Now? The only female friends I have are co-workers and wives/GFs of my friends. And I'm perfectly happy with that.
Agreed. Now that I'm older, I'm also of the mindset that 2 single, attractive people who get along well can't be true friends because feelings eventually get in the way. The majority of guy "friends" will absolutely jump on the chance to smang a female "friend" if she offered sex to him.
The way I always looked at the situation was that if I got along well enough with an attractive (because they always were) female to consider her a friend, then why wouldn't I want to date her? I've always had enough male friends. I'm not lacking in companionship, and I have far more in common with guys by default.
But yes, when I was younger (college and a couple years after), I too thought it was possible for guys & gals to be friends. Now? The only female friends I have are co-workers and wives/GFs of my friends. And I'm perfectly happy with that.
Arjen
Member
So? What do you have to lose if that happens?
shanshan310
Member
Hrmmm. Be careful. I know several Japanese girls who would hang out with foreign guys simply because they wanted to practice English and look cool. Not necessarily the case here, but if she's stated she just wants to practice English I'd be wary.
MadraptorMan
Member
I dunno, I guess a chance to have her get to know me better and be more confident in getting more personal? I feel like I have an opportunity to increase the odds by helping her out, before trying to start a relationship. Does that make any sense?
She's not that kind of girl...pretty sure I'm the only foreigner who has kept in any sort of regular contact with her. She is usually really busy with work.
Teach her the phrase "Do you want to go back to my place?" lol.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
That's being pretty sneaky.
Just stop thinking in terms of plans.
If you enjoy teaching her, continue to do so.
If you enjoy talking to her, try to get her out on a japanese date so the two of you can talk some more.
MadraptorMan
Member
Noted. Thanks.
When I find a girl like this...it's hard for me to not start scheming. But you're right, I don't know her that well yet and if things are meant to be, I guess it will happen naturally...makes sense when I type it out anyway.
Don't feel bad about it, you're a man. It's a natural feeling, going around looking for female friends to help is not a natural thing.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
It totally is if you want it to be
Exactly.
If you do end up with this gal, wouldn't you rather it was because the two of you were compatible and hit it off instead of a result of schemes and plans to make her fall in love with you?
Well, it is an international forum, and I know of plenty of cultures where men and women cannot be friends based on exactly what he has been saying.
AdventureRacing
Member
shanshan310
Member
The way I always looked at the situation was that if I got along well enough with an attractive (because they always were) female to consider her a friend, then why wouldn't I want to date her? I've always had enough male friends. I'm not lacking in companionship, and I have far more in common with guys by default.
But yes, when I was younger (college and a couple years after), I too thought it was possible for guys & gals to be friends. Now? The only female friends I have are co-workers and wives/GFs of my friends. And I'm perfectly happy with that.
I guess some men have more in common with girls
I personally find it easier to befriend guys. Not many girls I can talk to about dota, or have smash bros allnighters and eat whole pizzas with. I feel more comfortable talking to them about life in general. I know one of my best friends feels the same way about girls. Different strokes for different folks, or whatever. I guess some men just can't befriend women, but there are plenty who can.
Women are actually people too you know.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Well, it is an international forum, and I know of plenty of cultures where men and women cannot be friends based on exactly what he has been saying.
And of course, different strokes and all.
MadraptorMan
Member
Haha, well to be fair, even if the original intent was to find a way to spend more time with this girl, she's not going to be the only one I'm helping. I've got a good (guy) friend who is also going to Canada next year, so it's not all scheming.
But yea now that I've got myself into this weekly meeting situation, I gotta figure out the right way to move forward.
RedNalgene
Member
Yeah, you need to put yourself out there as someone who could be "more than just a friend". You can do these group meetups for a short while more so you can get a few more reads on whether or not she's interested in dating (and/or interested in dating you), but at some point in the very near future you will need to make it clear you're interested in more. Is there potential that you'll make future group meetings awkward if she rejects you - yep. But that's a risk you'll have to take. The worst case scenario is that she says "actually, I'm not interested in dating right now, but I'm flattered", which really isn't so bad. Best case is you land the date. Continuing on the current path leads to somewhere in the middle, which isn't a very good outcome.
MadraptorMan
Member
Thanks. I think this sounds very reasonable.
It totally is if you want it to be
Exactly.
If you do end up with this gal, wouldn't you rather it was because the two of you were compatible and hit it off instead of a result of schemes and plans to make her fall in love with you?
Absolutely!
Omegasquash
Member
Was friends with...I don't have a large social circle these days (outside of FB, which I don't really count). I've had a few close ones over the years. Not nearly as many as I have on the male side TBH, but those close friends aren't people that I wanted anything more from.
I'm not saying I haven't had female friends that I find attractive (fuck yes I have), and I'm not saying I haven't befriended someone because I wanted to bang them (fuck yes I have). But just because they're attractive doesn't mean that I did anything past recognizing that. I didn't want to bang many of them, most of them. Would have fucked things up.
I feel like I need a Venn diagram.
AdventureRacing
Member
What cultures are you talking about? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess he isn't from one of them and is most likely from the US (and his reasoning behind this has nothing to do with any specific culture so i don't understand why you brought this up).
Well no actually. There is a difference between saying you personally don't have friends of the opposite sex and saying that it is unusual (or even implying there is something weird about people who do as above).
Of course everyone is different, some can have friends of the opposite sex others can't.
Exactly. Perfect example to come in this thread at the exact right time. :lol
Ladies should realize that most guys only want to be "friends" because it opens up the possibility of more. Sure, these guys might enjoy the companionship, but again, the majority will not refuse sex if offered.
I guess some men have more in common with girls
Some, yes. Most? no. It's not controversial to claim that (most) guys will have more in common with other guys due to being the same gender. Same goes for females.
It's OK to claim such, even on GAF.
shanshan310
Member
Your second statement is not mutually exclusive with the first. I don't doubt guys think about having sex with their female friends, like I said it goes both ways.
If you can't have genuine friendships with women that's fine, but don't get selective hearing and pretend like you speak for everyone with a dick. It sounds almost as silly as the statement 'all women like shoes'.
Some, yes. Most? no. It's not controversial to claim that (most) guys will have more in common with other guys due to being the same gender. Same goes for females.
It's OK to claim such, even on GAF.
I don't think its really indicative of that no. Sorry, my life experiences have been very much the opposite. Friendship groups tend to form around similar interests, and while it depends on the interest, often there's an even split.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
shanshan310
Member
Come to Australia, everyone walks around barefoot
I thought this happens only in NZ.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Come to Australia, everyone walks around barefoot
But doesn't the ground get too hot for that?
AdventureRacing
Member
Just got to walk in the shadows and on the grass. Also we don't walk barefoot we use thongs
.Come to Australia, everyone walks around barefoot
Don't listen, you're being lured into a trap. Australia is covered in spiders.
That's the gist of it. Guys don't think about banging their male friends, nor (like the guy above) go about scheming ways to get more from these guys other than their companionship. Their attractive female "friends" on the other hand....
Never claimed I spoke for all males. :lol And I'm perfectly happy not having any genuine female friends. My wife is all the female companionship I care for.
I do, yes. I tend to have far more in common, and have similar life experiences, with guys than girls. I don't believe it's controversial to say that it's the same for most guys.
I get it now, you work for a foot soap company!Come to Australia, everyone walks around barefoot
shanshan310
Member
You misunderstand me. I don't think finding someone attractive means that you can't also have a genuine friendship with them.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
This thread is a hidden gem. Subscribed.
Lttp on the MVP posts but whatever:
Wtf? Some guys have some rediculous notions, seriously. Clearly this is a case of personal perspective being mistaken for widespread pratice/fact.
Men do not befriend women simply because of the option to sleep with them later, and vice versa. Most people value friendship, and a good friend is a good friend regardless of gender. Sex doesn't always have to muddy up a friendship between opposite genders.
I think that it definitely does happen, but definitely not to the point where this is to be considered the norm.
Wtf? Some guys have some rediculous notions, seriously. Clearly this is a case of personal perspective being mistaken for widespread pratice/fact.
Men do not befriend women simply because of the option to sleep with them later, and vice versa. Most people value friendship, and a good friend is a good friend regardless of gender. Sex doesn't always have to muddy up a friendship between opposite genders.
I think that it definitely does happen, but definitely not to the point where this is to be considered the norm.
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