Support NeoGAF

[Cubsfan23]

http://www.pinkhog.com/mezhopking/docs/OvercomingSocialAnxiety/two_competing_neural_pathways.htm



Two Competing Neural Pathways in Your Brain



Setbacks happen to everyone as they recover from an anxiety disorder. Unfortunately, I have never worked with anyone who didn't experience many "setbacks" on the road to full recovery (it happened to me, too).

But please remember this - YOU CAN'T HAVE A SETBACK UNLESS YOU'VE ALREADY MADE SOME PROGRESS!

Let's put this in both physiological and neurological terms:

Your OLD neural pathways (the millions of nerve cells in the brain that transmit messages, thoughts, and emotions) automatically lead you toward your old responses: anxiety, fear, and the related depression.

This old pathway is tangible - it is real. It has now been mapped out in the brain by the very new brain scans. Since your OLD neural pathway was used for many, many years, it is normal that the thoughts and beliefs that traveled along these pathways, became ingrained, became habits, and became automatic.

However, when you began therapy, you also began to develop a NEW neural pathway. You learned new ideas and concepts. You read things that were hard to believe but were rational and positive.

As a result, literally, millions of brain cells began carrying the new messages you were learning: the methods, strategies, techniques, statements, and concepts of overcoming social anxiety. Your new neural pathway was being created.

The more you practiced, and "sunk" the information down into your brain, the STRONGER you made this literal neural pathway. The more you continue to use these NEW methods you are learning, the stronger your NEW neural pathway will become.

The more you use the NEW, and the less you use the OLD, you are literally changing the way your brain responds (automatically and habitually).

That is how we get over anxiety disorders - your brain starts automatically using the NEW pathways.

The brain operates in much the same way as the rest of the body. It operates under the "use it or lose it" principle. If you use your new, positive pathway it grows stronger. If you ignore and do not use the old anxiety pathway, it grows smaller.

So, to some extent, we want to use what we know is best for us to continue growing our new neural pathway, and we want to avoid and stay away from the triggers that lead us down the old pathway.

BUT RIGHT NOW you have two competing neural systems in your brain concerning anxiety situations.

The old neural pathway is now entirely gone yet, so there is always the possibility that we might experience a "setback".

The worst kind of setback from your perspective is after you've felt good for a few days or a few weeks and the anxiety has been deflated and seems to be under control.

Naturally, you think you've got anxiety pretty much licked. THEN - out of the clear blue sky - and without warning - BOOM! The anxiety floods back in (pretty strongly) and you are left feeling defeated, deflated, and questioning your progress.

What is actually happening is that through some old association or remembrance, your old neural pathway got stimulated, and the old consequence happened: you had anxiety - but this time it occurred when you may not have been expecting it (which makes it worse, of course).

NOW THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT - Let's look at the reality here - What i really happening?

This "setback" is actually a sign of progress. It is a GOOD experience in the long run, not a bad one. It is important that you begin to view it in this way.

Your old neural pathway somehow got stimulated or triggered, and your new neural pathway did not have enough time or strength to respond.

That is perfectly normal. It is a natural part of recovering from an anxiety disorder.

Now, as you begin to view it that way, you start to respond by using your new thoughts, strategies and methods. you must call anxiety's bluff - what really happened was a last ditch attempt at pulling you back into "anxietyland", to get you to believe that you are totally hopeless, that the therapy doesn't work for you, and that things will just stay bad forever.

But, since you are developing that new neural pathway of yours, it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to be pulled back permanently. Your new brain pathway does not die out unless you totally give up. Even if you have a setback, your new neural pathway is there and will continue to grow.

You can save weeks and months of mental torture, though, by getting RATIONAL with this. This "setback" (as painful as it was) happened because of your two competing neural pathways. It is a totally normal experience that we all go through as we move forward.

Here are some statements that fit the experience of having a setback:

"I turn my back on my OLD lying ways of thinking and deliberately choose the new, positive direction I am moving. That anxiety response was a last ditch attempt by anxiety to grab me back - I could actually say that my anxiety panicked! It is already scared it has lost me..."

THE BEST NEWS is that when these types of "setbacks" begin occurring to you, you are definitely making progress. And when you don't respond to the old neural pathways, they will have no choice but to shrink to the place where they can't cause you the emotional pain and torment they did in the past.

These setbacks you have and your response to them are a sign that you are in the process of conquering the lying anxiety beast!

Look at it rationally and congratulate yourself.

As we learn to deal with social anxiety realistically, and deliberately choose to get back on the horse again, refuse to wallow in the mud, and choose to continue on, we have taken another step away from social anxiety and toward healing.

 

[I'm an expert]

I'm so stupid. I can't listen to my mind, only to my heart. At least it got me sex.

If you're talking about your ex, you're pretty dumb and I take back everything nice I said about you. So there.

 

[Wolfe]

What a stupid quote. Shy behavior (for me) is triggered because my heart is racing, I'm sweating like a madman and I don't feel in control of my arms and legs any more the second I set foot in a building or I try talking to anyone. Oh and my speech becoming slurred doesn't help either.

So you know more about how your body works than the people whos job it is to know such things?

Edit: Not that I know who you are quoting and what their job is, just felt like you were being overly dismissive of what was said as if you know for a fact.

 

[Scalpel Knight]

First time posting in this thread, but I feel as if I have a small story to tell.

So the past few months have been sort of hard on me. My ex was basically toying with me and lying to me, playing with my head: making it seem as if we still had a chance. I would ask her directly: "If you didn't think we have a chance of getting back together, you wouldn't be talking to me, right?" She always responded in a positive manner, though she remained vague, and sort of cagey about everything.

A month and a half ago, she was asking me what I thought about arranged marriage (as if my opinion really mattered) and I gave her my opinion. I was sort of frazzled by this talk. The next day we spoke as normal. Immediately though I started to grow suspicious of this type of talk. Not to mention previous things I had seen on Facebook on so on. She was just using this "arranged marriage" thing as an excuse to cover it up when she actually was planning to voluntarily get engaged. I was stupid and naive: she's actually been lying to me for the majority of two years.

Suddenly I hear she's engaged, and sure enough, she's been ignoring me since the conversation a month and a half ago, despite promises that she'd still talk to me. I guess it's all a blessing in disguise, in the very end: why would I want to spend my life with a liar, who deceives someone she supposedly cares about? Anyway, I'm hoping people can learn from this mistake. Vague non-answers are worth nothing when it comes to dealing with significant others (potential, current, or past).

I'm looking to move back into a scene that I never really was in before (dating - I'm bad at it). I just want to talk to her one more time, though, so I can get some fucking closure on this whole awful thing, and move on for good. She needs to hear from me how hurt I am from this incident, even if in the end she doesn't care.

Don't have someone leading you on. If you feel it's happening, then just get out immediately.

 

[Minamu]

So you know more about how your body works than the people whos job it is to know such things?

Edit: Not that I know who you are quoting and what their job is, just felt like you were being overly dismissive of what was said as if you know for a fact.

It was in response to this post of mine:
http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=43447084&postcount=18383

Sorry to hear it Scalpel Knight. The best thing for you to do is start working on yourself. Become a better person in general. You really don't need to talk to her one last time though. And there's no point really in telling her how hurt you are. Neither you nor her will gain anything positive from that. The most mature thing to do would be to completely drop it. Make sure she's not a part of your life from now on.

 

[pigeon]

I'm looking to move back into a scene that I never really was in before (dating - I'm bad at it). I just want to talk to her one more time, though, so I can get some fucking closure on this whole awful thing, and move on for good. She needs to hear from me how hurt I am from this incident, even if in the end she doesn't care.

Sucks, man. :/

Write a letter.

 

[Scalpel Knight]

It was in response to this post of mine:
http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=43447084&postcount=18383

Sorry to hear it Scalpel Knight. The best thing for you to do is start working on yourself. Become a better person in general. You really don't need to talk to her one last time though. And there's no point really in telling her how hurt you are. Neither you nor her will gain anything positive from that. The most mature thing to do would be to completely drop it. Make sure she's not a part of your life from now on.

Sucks, man. :/

Write a letter.

I dunno, I know that at some point she will try to contact me. I work at the same place she goes to school, so I'm bound to run into her again at some point. She's basically done away with all her current phone numbers and any means by which I can contact her. I've given up on that. Eventually though I will end up talking to her in some way.

A letter doesn't seem like a bad idea, but the more I think about it, the more a waste of time and energy it seems.

The best idea though, would definitely seem to be to make sure she's not a part of my life in any way. That's true. Thanks, I think this is the way I'll go. If I see her again in the flesh I will probably talk to her once and never again. The most hilarious thing is that despite her actions she expressed interest in "not losing me" at the end of that conversation we had back a month and a half ago. Like hell I'm going to let her string me along again.

 

[Loona]

Got back from meeting with that girl today - a couple of nice hours of chatting over beers, more than I thought I'd be able to sustain in one go, even if occasionally my sentences came out kinda messed up (as in, part of them are missing on the first attempt). The topics didn't gets as frisky as in last night's IMing, but still not bad.
I only really started paying attention to her posture about halfway through, and then her arms were crossed, but after returning from the ladies room she put on a jacket and that practically stopped - she mentioned something about suspecting an incoming fever an on some other day hinted at not talking much normally, so being nervous and a little cold could have been factors, it's hard to say.

We split after leaving the bar with some mentions of an event we might both go to, that some more IMing was likely in the near future, and a peck in the cheek, and when I got home I messaged her asking if she arrived home well (it didn't cross my mind then to walk her home or to the nearest transport, but then again, she might not be comfortable yet with a stranger knowing where she lives), hoping she had fun, and her reply seemed favorable.


Not sure if there were any major blunders along the way, but it seemed to go well, considering how this sort of situation isn't exactly common for me... let's see how it goes next time we chat...

 

[Jonm1010]

So I don't have anywhere else to really post this. Never really been in this thread so I'm not even sure the structure of how things work.

And I guess this is sort of a stealth bragging/cautiously optimistic post.

So for context I still part time bartend on the weekends because 1.) it's extremely fun and easy extra money.

Well one of the servers there had a crush on me for a while. Though I wasn't made aware of it til recently. I never paid much mind to her because she didn't ever even speak to me, even when I tried to make casual conversation. She was clearly very shy and introverted. Something i had a bad experience with once in a long term relationship(im a mix myselfof introvert and extrovert and she was introverted and eventually revealed some severe personality disorders and extreme unprovoked jealousy) and have had better experiences with strong extroverts.

For some background I am about 6 months out of a fairly long relationship we both mutually ended(just grew apart) and was doing the typical dating around a lot.

Well after i was made aware of her pretty heavy crush I started making more of an attempt to get to know her. We have went on three dates now, gone out bar hopping with friends and just spent a night hanging out on the couch talking til 3am like high schoolers.

I have to say that in my entire life I haven't felt a connection like this so early on and it's honestly a little frightening. It's like I know she has strong interest in me but I am still nervous every step I make. She has a very pretty girl next door look, a great personality, good sense of humor, our interests are eerily identical in many areas.

My only concerns right now are age and experience differences. She is 21 and I am 27. It would be the largest age gap I've dated someone before. I honestly don't think much of it but combined with this other factor makes me nervous...her longest relationship is two months. Not by choice mind you but because of her natural shyness and being someone who more recently grew into her looks(and she has very well!). Has anyone on Gaf had experience with either dating someone with little dating experience or with moderate age gaps? I'm wondering what are the things I need to look out for. She's definately mature for her age, hence our ability to conversate so easily, I'm just hoping I'm not setting myself up for inevitable failure.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Women have needs, just like men. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to invite a girl over to your place, or hers, for dinner and drinks and just hook up without needing to go through a couting procedure with a million steps to it. In a lot of cases, if a girl agrees on a date with you, she has most likely already decided that she likes you, and may very well already be sexually interested in you. Unfortunately, it's also very easy to talk women out of this, by badgering them with date requests etc. And they accept dates because that's what everyone does.

I can't do that. It has nothing to do with experience or having game, I'm just kind of old fashion. My attraction towards this woman isn't just out of sexual tension. I mean, I'm sure in the back of my mind, there's definitely some, but I want to keep it as clean as possible for our sake. I guess if I had more confidence, maybe I'll be singing a different tune, but for now, I'm perfectly happy to win her heart first. When and if we do get to the point of jumping in bed, you're not gonna hear me cry about it.

 

[Unicorn]

So I don't have anywhere else to really post this. Never really been in this thread so I'm not even sure the structure of how things work.

And I guess this is sort of a stealth bragging/cautiously optimistic post.

So for context I still part time bartend on the weekends because 1.) it's extremely fun and easy extra money.

Well one of the servers there had a crush on me for a while. Though I wasn't made aware of it til recently. I never paid much mind to her because she didn't ever even speak to me, even when I tried to make casual conversation. She was clearly very shy and introverted. Something i had a bad experience with once in a long term relationship(im a mix myselfof introvert and extrovert and she was introverted and eventually revealed some severe personality disorders and extreme unprovoked jealousy) and have had better experiences with strong extroverts.

For some background I am about 6 months out of a fairly long relationship we both mutually ended(just grew apart) and was doing the typical dating around a lot.

Well after i was made aware of her pretty heavy crush I started making more of an attempt to get to know her. We have went on three dates now, gone out bar hopping with friends and just spent a night hanging out on the couch talking til 3am like high schoolers.

I have to say that in my entire life I haven't felt a connection like this so early on and it's honestly a little frightening. It's like I know she has strong interest in me but I am still nervous every step I make. She has a very pretty girl next door look, a great personality, good sense of humor, our interests are eerily identical in many areas.

My only concerns right now are age and experience differences. She is 21 and I am 27. It would be the largest age gap I've dated someone before. I honestly don't think much of it but combined with this other factor makes me nervous...her longest relationship is two months. Not by choice mind you but because of her natural shyness and being someone who more recently grew into her looks(and she has very well!). Has anyone on Gaf had experience with either dating someone with little dating experience or with moderate age gaps? I'm wondering what are the things I need to look out for. She's definately mature for her age, hence our ability to conversate so easily, I'm just hoping I'm not setting myself up for inevitable failure.

My experience with someone around the same age is that they may think they are ready for a long relationship but then get scared by realizing they are still young and want to test more waters (dicks).

 

[Vermillion]

Women have needs, just like men. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to invite a girl over to your place, or hers, for dinner and drinks and just hook up without needing to go through a couting procedure with a million steps to it. In a lot of cases, if a girl agrees on a date with you, she has most likely already decided that she likes you, and may very well already be sexually interested in you. Unfortunately, it's also very easy to talk women out of this, by badgering them with date requests etc. And they accept dates because that's what everyone does.

Maybe. Women seem to want relationships more (in my experience). I've been asked at a party why guys always want to have sex instead of getting into relationships.

 

[Pastry]

Just got a date for this Thursday. She's a cute girl, really smart also, kind of one of those girls that I'm not really sure why I have a crush on her but I do. The nice thing is that I already know her so I'm not going to have to go through most of the awkward getting to know her conversations since we have already spent some time hanging out. I'm pretty excited about this, it'll be my first date since getting out of my last relationship a couple of months ago. Feels great to be back on my feet and going out on a a date. It's kind of funny that this is only like my second date ever though, I'v had many girlfriends but none of that was ever initiated through dates. Back in college I'd just go to parties with them or chill in the dorms to get to know them.

 

[Minamu]

Maybe. Women seem to want relationships more (in my experience). I've been asked at a party why guys always want to have sex instead of getting into relationships.

Honestly, at least from an online dating perspective, that's my experience too. That's what most profiles say at least. With my example though, nothing more than one night stands is not the only possible outcome. There's no reason why a serious relationship couldn't spring from a sex on the first date sort of thing. I suppose it could be cultural differences between countries too.

I can't do that. It has nothing to do with experience or having game, I'm just kind of old fashion. My attraction towards this woman isn't just out of sexual tension. I mean, I'm sure in the back of my mind, there's definitely some, but I want to keep it as clean as possible for our sake. I guess if I had more confidence, maybe I'll be singing a different tune, but for now, I'm perfectly happy to win her heart first. When and if we do get to the point of jumping in bed, you're not gonna hear me cry about it.

Keeping it clean is probably smart considering you work together. I'd be *very* careful with trying to win her heart though. Even if you were experienced, that can so easily backfire, probably more so than just going for sex. I don't think there's anything stopping you from suggesting that the two of you make dinner together some night and drink some wine at her or your place though.

 

[Darklord]

Oh my fucking GOD! I was having a serious talk about a relationship between me and this girl. Like a big talk about our future and what we want. She goes "What do you want from this?" and what you know happens? At that moment. AT THAT VERY MOMENT. MY FUCKING PHONE DECIDES TO DIE. wtf am I going to do?! She probably thinks I'm just ignoring her now!

 

[dark_chris]

I've been seeing this girl for a long time and just this past weekend, i decided to give her a bunch of roses and she loved it. She also has a kid and I always try my best to look good and show I can take care of him too.
I've decided to ask her out the next time I see her. =)

 

[RionaaM]

Oh my fucking GOD! I was having a serious talk about a relationship between me and this girl. Like a big talk about our future and what we want. She goes "What do you want from this?" and what you know happens? At that moment. AT THAT VERY MOMENT. MY FUCKING PHONE DECIDES TO DIE. wtf am I going to do?! She probably thinks I'm just ignoring her now!

Damn, that's really unfortunate! Don't you have other ways of contacting her, like a land line or Skype? If so, I'd call her right away.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I just don't get it, I've done everything this thread has said to do and yet things are just the same as ever.

The only thing I haven't reached yet within my control is attaining some kind of Adonis-like body but I'm making steady progress.

 

[DominoKid]

I just don't get it, I've done everything this thread has said to do and yet things are just the same as ever.

im in the same place right now.
just keep it up i guess. thats all i can say. thats all anyone can say really.
things are bound to turn around sometime...right?

im a realist by nature (some would say pessimist, but w/e) just because it's hard to stay optimistic when shit hardly ever goes your way.
i dont think its so simple as saying bettering yourself would get you results. if only it were that easy.
i cant help but feel like for some people it doesnt matter what you do, if people dont fuck with you, they just don't fuck with you.

 

[JustHadToJoin]

Everyfuckingday.

GAF I need your help, and I only now know that I want it. After months of issues, I realize I could benefit from your ideas greatly. My problem is that I need confidence in my heart.

Every day I give myself a reason not to talk to the pretty girl with the amazing curves I see on the street;

• ​
  I'll be late to class

on the bus;

• ​
  this will be an awkward ride if she's not into me

at the gym;

• ​
  she isn't feeling her best, she doesn't want attention.

at the party;

• ​
  We're not the same ethnicity, what if she's not into "us"?

and every day I HATE that I haven't been able to stop having sex with my ex girlfriend because she is the last girl I ever had the balls to approach.

The thing is that I am attractive. People tell me this all the time. "You should model, you look like someone famous." I am smart, I have a good personality, I have a good physique. I am consistently funny, and once in a while hilarious, but still I cannot manage to believe in myself. So what the fuck?

I don't know how to approach a random girl and spark a conversation. The first step is the hardest, right? I always see advice that is something along the lines of "just go say hi, or just be you." Well I don't want to be me. "Me" hasn't ever been able to do this, I want to evolve.

So tomorrow I'm going to the mall. I'm going to a mall I have never been to, and most likely will never go to and I'm just going to practice. But can someone please just advise me on how to approach a woman? The words are the key. What topics do I ask her about? What kinds of things do you say when you just want to introduce yourself?

Spoiler

in before "hi"

I want to use every bit of advice in this thread until I get out of this drought and enter the Amazon.

 

[Cow Mengde]

So, I made my intentions much clearer today. I got a reply from her. Not sure how to make of it. It wasn't a straight up no, but it wasn't a straight up yes. Basically, she said something along the lines of it being tricky since we work together, but she's still up for the lunch I ask her out to before and wants to see where we can go from there.

What do you guys think are my chances?

 

[Perspicacity]

JHTJ - I wish I could help but I have a similar issue. Please report on your success.

So, I made my intentions much clearer today. I got a reply from her. Not sure how to make of it. It wasn't a straight up no, but it wasn't a straight up yes. Basically, she said something along the lines of it being tricky since we work together, but she's still up for the lunch I ask her out to before and wants to see where we can go from there.

What do you guys think are my chances?

"Define the relationship" conversations are almost always a bad idea. No need to declare your intentions until you're a few weeks in and there is at least the embers of a commitment there. What exactly did your message say?

 

[SMT]

Everyfuckingday.

GAF I need your help, and I only now know that I want it. After months of issues, I realize I could benefit from your ideas greatly. My problem is that I need confidence in my heart.

Every day I give myself a reason not to talk to the pretty girl with the amazing curves I see on the street;

• ​
  I'll be late to class

on the bus;

• ​
  this will be an awkward ride if she's not into me

at the gym;

• ​
  she isn't feeling her best, she doesn't want attention.

at the party;

• ​
  We're not the same ethnicity, what if she's not into "us"?

and every day I HATE that I haven't been able to stop having sex with my ex girlfriend because she is the last girl I ever had the balls to approach.

The thing is that I am attractive. People tell me this all the time. "You should model, you look like someone famous." I am smart, I have a good personality, I have a good physique. I am consistently funny, and once in a while hilarious, but still I cannot manage to believe in myself. So what the fuck?

I don't know how to approach a random girl and spark a conversation. The first step is the hardest, right? I always see advice that is something along the lines of "just go say hi, or just be you." Well I don't want to be me. "Me" hasn't ever been able to do this, I want to evolve.

So tomorrow I'm going to the mall. I'm going to a mall I have never been to, and most likely will never go to and I'm just going to practice. But can someone please just advise me on how to approach a woman? The words are the key. What topics do I ask her about? What kinds of things do you say when you just want to introduce yourself?

Spoiler

in before "hi"

I want to use every bit of advice in this thread until I get out of this drought and enter the Amazon.

You remind me of myself; you have the tools, you just want someone to make it clear that they like you. It's a defense mechanism. You just have to start 'trolling' girls you see with random funny questions.

Your confidence will increase slightly, but don't stop when you can sense their attraction, you have to keep going. People keep asking me what TV show I'm from.

If you stop, you'll have to restart, also try and pull some cues from Craig Ferguson, see how he acts? What questions does he ask?

He can think on the spot with zainy questions, you can too, they aren't even that thoughtful but provoke some entertaining answers.

You have to get over the heartbeat racing though, I remember when I first started, I would gasp for air in mid-sentence, but I kept talking to impress the girl.

 

[Cow Mengde]

JHTJ - I wish I could help but I have a similar issue. Please report on your success.



"Define the relationship" conversations are almost always a bad idea. No need to declare your intentions until you're a few weeks in and there is at least the embers of a commitment there. What exactly did your message say?

It was a straight up no bullshit: will you go out with me.

 

[Perspicacity]

It was a straight up no bullshit: will you go out with me.

So... wait, you had a lunch date planned and you asked her out on another date? That's a little weird but I don't think you're screwed. Just be a lot more patient and try to avoid the phrase "Will you go out with me?" in the future, just ask her to go somewhere specific.

 

[Cow Mengde]

So... wait, you had a lunch date planned and you asked her out on another date? That's a little weird but I don't think you're screwed. Just be a lot more patient and try to avoid the phrase "Will you go out with me?" in the future, just ask her to go somewhere specific.

Yeah, well you guys told me to stop thinking. This is what happens when you stop thinking.

The lunch thing was more of a practice run I guess. I probably screwed it up.

 

[Vermillion]

Sooo... what am I supposed to talk to girl from class about, anyways? And when, particularly if we aren't leaving/entering class at the same time?

 

[Minamu]

So, I made my intentions much clearer today. I got a reply from her. Not sure how to make of it. It wasn't a straight up no, but it wasn't a straight up yes. Basically, she said something along the lines of it being tricky since we work together, but she's still up for the lunch I ask her out to before and wants to see where we can go from there.

What do you guys think are my chances?

It was a straight up no bullshit: will you go out with me.

Yeah, well you guys told me to stop thinking. This is what happens when you stop thinking.

The lunch thing was more of a practice run I guess. I probably screwed it up.

You haven't been on that lunch date yet, right? A bit unnecessary to ask her out again before that. But at least you got a pretty straight-forward answer. It IS a bit tricky because you work together, that will always make this particular scenario more hard mode than it usually needs to be. If she had left it at that, you'd probably be screwed, yeah. But if that lunch is still up and she said that she wants to see where it goes, it might still be on. Just go more slowly forward from now on. It seems like you pushed a bit too hard for her tastes (didn't her friend say something along those lines as well?), so just recalibrate. Whether or not a straight up question like yours is a good thing, that's still up for debate, honestly. It obviously has a risk of back firing but it also gives a quicker answer, so you can potentially move on quicker.

I think I can see three scenarios here.
1. She is not interested in dating you, for whatever reason. She only accepted lunch to make it less awkward since you work together.
2. She doesn't want to commit this fast, but wouldn't mind going on a lunch date and see what happens down the road.
3. She'd be into hooking up and keeping it casual.

Perhaps in that order, but it's a toss-up. You'll just have to wait and see. Workplace romance is seriously one of the more difficult relationships to create and maintain, probably. So be mindful of that.

Sooo... what am I supposed to talk to girl from class about, anyways? And when, particularly if we aren't leaving/entering class at the same time?

What do YOU *want* to talk about? The class itself might be a good starting point, and most conversations are two-way, so she'll probably say something too, you know. "Just say hi" Are there no parties or anything? It is okay to say hello in the corridors during breaks or before/after class too. Sounds like you're chasing though, that's exhausting.

 

[Vermillion]

What do YOU *want* to talk about? The class itself might be a good starting point, and most conversations are two-way, so she'll probably say something too, you know. "Just say hi" Are there no parties or anything? It is okay to say hello in the corridors during breaks or before/after class too. Sounds like you're chasing though, that's exhausting.

I don't know what I want to talk about. Not much I do talk about, honestly. Besides, y'know, geeky shit (and strange stories from GAF). Before you say it, I do have extracurriculars. Good ones, I think.

And as for the class itself - that might work if I didn't have guys on either side of me to talk to about class, one of whom I already talk to if I need to know something.

Parties... many of the girls I'm interested in don't seem to drink, for one, and that often means they find parties boring. Plus, this particular girl seems rather quiet.

Before class... I get there before her, but I've used the opportunity to talk to another girl before (she was studying, though, so not too long). After class, I could technically time it so I leave after her, but as I learned the other day, we go different directions when leaving yet end up in the same area to leave the whole building. Only mildly awkward.

 

[Fou-Lu]

So, should you ever try to find out if a girl has a boyfriend before asking her out? Or just ask her out and find out that way?

 

[DominoKid]

So, should you ever try to find out if a girl has a boyfriend before asking her out? Or just ask her out and find out that way?

doing recon is too much work. just ask.
half the time they'll just say they do. and the other half they'll lie and say they do.
*kanyeshrug*
shit doesnt matter. if she wants to be w/ you she'll be w/ you.

 

[SMT]

So, should you ever try to find out if a girl has a boyfriend before asking her out? Or just ask her out and find out that way?

The girl will mention her bf by accident, or if you really get to know her.
You'll know, also you need a bit of background before you can even ask her out. Unless you are at a club and pull her to the side.

If you've talked to her for a while and the bf doesn't come up, either he is not important, or she doesn't have one.

Some girls like to boast that they are taken.
Some girls like to find drama and cheat.

 

[Minamu]

So what does your boyfriend work with or something like that. It's a normal question to ask to be honest.

 

[I'm an expert]

On one hand, grats to Cow for not getting shot down twice. On the other hand.. did you just ask a girl out twice before going on the first date..

 

[Minamu]

I don't know what I want to talk about. Not much I do talk about, honestly. Besides, y'know, geeky shit (and strange stories from GAF). Before you say it, I do have extracurriculars. Good ones, I think.

And as for the class itself - that might work if I didn't have guys on either side of me to talk to about class, one of whom I already talk to if I need to know something.

Parties... many of the girls I'm interested in don't seem to drink, for one, and that often means they find parties boring. Plus, this particular girl seems rather quiet.

Before class... I get there before her, but I've used the opportunity to talk to another girl before (she was studying, though, so not too long). After class, I could technically time it so I leave after her, but as I learned the other day, we go different directions when leaving yet end up in the same area to leave the whole building. Only mildly awkward.

Surely there are some topics you like? Music, movies, whatever. What extra things do you have? You're not supposed to talk to the people next to you during class Couldn't you ask the same questions during a break to any person, really? Everyone has an opinion on the class they're currently in, maybe they dislike the teacher or absolutely anything.

These girls you like, do they dance at these parties? Most people like that I think, not to mention stimulating conversations. Parties are great for that even if you don't drink, in my experience. You probably know this by now, but there's not supposed to be "this particular girl". That thinking screws you up the most. If you just want to get better at talking and being social just because there's this one girl you like, then it's not gonna work properly and it's just a disservice to one self. I'm not following on the mildy awkward thing, sorry.

 

[Vermillion]

Surely there are some topics you like? Music, movies, whatever. What extra things do you have? You're not supposed to talk to the people next to you during class Couldn't you ask the same questions during a break to any person, really? Everyone has an opinion on the class they're currently in, maybe they dislike the teacher or absolutely anything.

These girls you like, do they dance at these parties? Most people like that I think, not to mention stimulating conversations. Parties are great for that even if you don't drink, in my experience. You probably know this by now, but there's not supposed to be "this particular girl". That thinking screws you up the most. If you just want to get better at talking and being social just because there's this one girl you like, then it's not gonna work properly and it's just a disservice to one self. I'm not following on the mildy awkward thing, sorry.

How would I jump into the topics of music or movies (also I don't watch that many movies or follow music as closely as many do)? And I do archery and I'm in Amnesty International (missed the weekly meeting for AI today, though). Sometimes I play piano and much rarer I (try and fail to) geocache. Oh, and a law club.

Well, I know some who hate parties if they don't drink - besides that, the parties I've been to this year don't have much dancing. And it's not for one girl in specific - it's for any girl and, of course, myself.

And mildly awkward... it's like when you tell someone bye and you see them again. Or you end up walking in the same direction.

 

[Minamu]

How would I jump into the topics of music or movies (also I don't watch that many movies or follow music as closely as many do)? And I do archery and I'm in Amnesty International (missed the weekly meeting for AI today, though). Sometimes I play piano and much rarer I (try and fail to) geocache. Oh, and a law club.

Well, I know some who hate parties if they don't drink - besides that, the parties I've been to this year don't have much dancing. And it's not for one girl in specific - it's for any girl and, of course, myself.

And mildly awkward... it's like when you tell someone bye and you see them again. Or you end up walking in the same direction.

I'm not sure about getting onto the topic of music and/or movies actually. Maybe someone with better English can suggest something? Going "Hi, what kind of music do you like?" is a bit weird Not knowing much about the topic isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sounds like a great way to get new tips and suggestions. Your hobbies were actually pretty interesting to me. AI in particular, I have no idea what that entails I've been curious about geocache as well, but haven't gotten around to it.

It's good you're trying so hard for yourself and no one else. Maybe these girls you've met just aren't your type in the end? And even if they are, if just one of you likes to party, sure that might become a problem, but it might also not.

That doesn't sound so awkward to me. Sounds simple to play off with a "so we meet again!" in a humorous way. It's funny because it is slightly awkward maybe. I think most people would be able to laugh that off in two seconds flat.

 

[Pastry]

Just had my date, it was a lot of fun. We went to a dank restaurant and everything went well. Chat flowed nicely but I already knew her so there wasn't really any awkward getting to know each other talk. But holy shit did I forget how awkward the first kiss can be, at least I got that out of the way I guess.

 

[Perspicacity]

I don't know how to approach a random girl and spark a conversation. The first step is the hardest, right? I always see advice that is something along the lines of "just go say hi, or just be you." Well I don't want to be me. "Me" hasn't ever been able to do this, I want to evolve.

So tomorrow I'm going to the mall. I'm going to a mall I have never been to, and most likely will never go to and I'm just going to practice. But can someone please just advise me on how to approach a woman? The words are the key. What topics do I ask her about? What kinds of things do you say when you just want to introduce yourself?

Spoiler

in before "hi"

I want to use every bit of advice in this thread until I get out of this drought and enter the Amazon.

So how did this go?

 

[Vermillion]

I'm not sure about getting onto the topic of music and/or movies actually. Maybe someone with better English can suggest something? Going "Hi, what kind of music do you like?" is a bit weird Not knowing much about the topic isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sounds like a great way to get new tips and suggestions. Your hobbies were actually pretty interesting to me. AI in particular, I have no idea what that entails I've been curious about geocache as well, but haven't gotten around to it.

It's good you're trying so hard for yourself and no one else. Maybe these girls you've met just aren't your type in the end? And even if they are, if just one of you likes to party, sure that might become a problem, but it might also not.

That doesn't sound so awkward to me. Sounds simple to play off with a "so we meet again!" in a humorous way. It's funny because it is slightly awkward maybe. I think most people would be able to laugh that off in two seconds flat.

Oh, AI was an abbreviation for Amnesty International.

Maybe. I dunno, that's the type I'm attracted to - cute, smart... you know.

Incidentally, these girls are usually quiet as well - neither of us are the type to... anything, really.

Oh, that reminds me, a girl in another class of mine smiled at me today. I guess it could easily be nothing, just being nice, but... she's also cute/smart/quiet voice. Iunno anything about her, and I was planning on talking to her after class, but we didn't get in the hallway at the same time. Oh, she also sits close to me. Fun, right?

I oughta figure out something.

 

[quaere]

Everyfuckingday.

GAF I need your help, and I only now know that I want it. After months of issues, I realize I could benefit from your ideas greatly. My problem is that I need confidence in my heart.

I don't know how to approach a random girl and spark a conversation. The first step is the hardest, right? I always see advice that is something along the lines of "just go say hi, or just be you." Well I don't want to be me. "Me" hasn't ever been able to do this, I want to evolve.

I rarely come in this thread so not sure if this is well known or if pickup type stuff is frowned upon, but the key for me was having a couple memorized guidelines and routines in my back pocket.

Now, I don't mean the kind of routines that are in tons of the pickup advice out there that rely on a long delivery, acting, and remembering to get stuff in the right order. Those are stupid and chances are you are going to sound fake as hell trying to pull it off. I mean simple stuff like -

What are you guys celebrating? (open at night)
Where is the nearest Starbucks?...wait 2 seconds, interrupt...Just kidding, I thought you were cute and wanted to talk to you (open during day)
I'm going to guess you ______ (guess their occupation, what they study, ethnicity, hobbies)
If they ask you questions early on, make them guess.
What's the most adventurous thing you've done in the past year?
Tell me something about yourself no one else knows.

If any of this sounds familiar...that's probably because it's all from Simple Pickup. Those guys kick ass but even they reuse a lot of material from pick up to pick up, probably because it just works and it's easy to make sound natural. I haven't found any other style I like remotely as much as what they do. Really recommend it.

 

[Fou-Lu]

I don't know why I feel like such an idiot around this girl. It's like I'm 14 again, nervous, butterflies in my stomach, shy as hell and my tongue tied in a thousand knots. I haven't had any troubles flirting or asking out girls no matter how hot they are for the last few years, but this girl just destroys me.

 

[TheSchwab_7]

I normally don't post in here unless I'm having gf trouble, but anyway I think I'm losing interest in my girlfriend.

She lives about an hour away, doesn't go to school, and works anywhere between 50-60 hours a week. The problem is that we rarely see each other and when we do, it's only when she gets off work and then we spend maybe 3 or 4 hours with each other at her parents house or my apartment.

Then, since she works doubles or I have class, we have to leave early. We never spend a day together. We don't go on dates anymore. There are some days I can't even talk to her because she works doubles at work and doesn't have time to text or anything.

We've been dating for almost 6 months, and she is supposed to move back to where I live (and where she lived before getting evicted and having to move back in with her parents), but I don't see her being able to afford an apartment even with several roommates. Her lease on her car expires in December and she doesn't have enough money to buy it and argues with her parents too much for them to even want to help her out and pay it. She went to school for nails and skin (forget what it's called), but works at Applebee's at 2.18/hr plus tips. One day she wants to go back to school and the next she wants to become a manager at a restaurant.

I also worry about her going out an drinking because she cheated on her boyfriend with me while she was drunk and I didn't find out until mid September. She told me she was single.

I do want to be with her, I just wish she would grow the fuck up sometimes. How do I tell her this? and do I even tell her this? thanks

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

She seems immature and indecisive. She's working all the time at a dead-end job yet doesn't seem to have much money or a goal.

Obviously there's only one perspective here (yours) but it sounds like you two need a break. She can't take care of herself, how can she can be expected to take care of you? If you really like her, give her some time to get her life together. Otherwise, break up.

--

There are a lot of posts in this thread for reverse situations like yours. A guy here isn't going anywhere in his life yet wants a girlfriend. He needs to get his own life on track before he can bring someone else into it.

 

[Darklord]

I think I'm in love. This was really unexpected but it's....nice.

 

[I'm an expert]

I think I'm in love. This was really unexpected but it's....nice.

>.>;

 

[Log4Girlz]

I normally don't post in here unless I'm having gf trouble, but anyway I think I'm losing interest in my girlfriend.

She lives about an hour away, doesn't go to school, and works anywhere between 50-60 hours a week. The problem is that we rarely see each other and when we do, it's only when she gets off work and then we spend maybe 3 or 4 hours with each other at her parents house or my apartment.

Then, since she works doubles or I have class, we have to leave early. We never spend a day together. We don't go on dates anymore. There are some days I can't even talk to her because she works doubles at work and doesn't have time to text or anything.

We've been dating for almost 6 months, and she is supposed to move back to where I live (and where she lived before getting evicted and having to move back in with her parents), but I don't see her being able to afford an apartment even with several roommates. Her lease on her car expires in December and she doesn't have enough money to buy it and argues with her parents too much for them to even want to help her out and pay it. She went to school for nails and skin (forget what it's called), but works at Applebee's at 2.18/hr plus tips. One day she wants to go back to school and the next she wants to become a manager at a restaurant.

I also worry about her going out an drinking because she cheated on her boyfriend with me while she was drunk and I didn't find out until mid September. She told me she was single.

I do want to be with her, I just wish she would grow the fuck up sometimes. How do I tell her this? and do I even tell her this? thanks

Why are you with her?

 

[Emwitus]

Okay, has any one ever had this one girl you can't forget no matter how hard you tried? Does any one believe in a love that's meant to be? Cause this is driving me nuts!!! How do you guys forget someone? It's messing up my other relationships.

 

[Cubsfan23]

How do you guys forget someone?

re-program your mind

 

[Vermillion]

So at first I thought that Halloween would be an easy night to start conversation. Then I realized the majority of the girls I'll see will be wearing slutty costumes of inane things.

Win some lose some. Ah well!