Not necessarily DC... he was saying he didn't want to say but it's one of DC or Marvel. Could be Marvel.
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DC Cinematic Universe |OT| Superfriends with Benefits
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Not necessarily DC... he was saying he didn't want to say but it's one of DC or Marvel. Could be Marvel.
So hey I finally saw the movie. Better late than never I suppose.
I'd heard before seeing the movie that the intro was great - but honestly it did nothing for me. There was nothing particularly wrong with it, but it didn't blow my mind or anything. This movie's worst enemy for the first half is the editing - it just jumps all over the place with practically no transitions between scenes.
The actual fight between Bats and Supes mas just kind of "meh" - which is kind of shitty considering it had been marketed as the main draw of the movie. It didn't help that WB more or less gave away all the major beats of the fight in the trailers. The Doomsday fight had some cool moments, mostly relating to Wonder Woman, but it wasn't particularly memorable for me either. The warehouse fight with Batman was great, it really was the Arkham games come to life.
Also, the more I think about it, the more Eisenberg nearly ruined the movie for me. I just could not get on board with his performance. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for new interpretations of established characters so long as they're pulled off well. It was just too goofy and over-the-top, it felt like he was acting in an entirely different film. Poor Cavill, he gets maybe two or three scenes where he's allowed to show an emotion other than sad/angry/depressed/melancholic. I feel like the guy could be a genuinely great Superman, but he's been hamstrung for two films now, unable to bring out the character's more likable qualities for an extended period of time. Hell even in Man of Steel he got to smile at least once and while. As a life-long Superman fan this shit is actually starting to just depress me. I legitimately hope
And yeah, the
It wasn't all bad though. As someone who was open-minded about Batffleck from the moment he was cast, I thought he was awesome. Irons was a fantastic Alfred despite his brief screentime - I'm totally ready for the solo Batman movie. Same for Gadot - not much screentime but she definitely made an impression, I'm hyped and ready to go for Wonder Woman.
If I had to give it a number, I'd say 2/5 based on the first viewing. I was pretty disappointed overall, especially after waiting for three years and trying my absolute hardest to stay optimistic about it while swimming in the overwhelming sea of negativity that had engulfed this movie from the moment it was announced. I was on your side, Snyder and WB, I tried my hardest. The movie just felt like a jumbled mess, I'm hoping the Ultimate Cut smooths things out a bit - but a lot of smoothing is going to be needed.
I'd heard before seeing the movie that the intro was great - but honestly it did nothing for me. There was nothing particularly wrong with it, but it didn't blow my mind or anything. This movie's worst enemy for the first half is the editing - it just jumps all over the place with practically no transitions between scenes.
The Knightmare sequence - which I feel like should have been a highlight of the film - ended up feeling like a wasted opportunity. It just sort of happens randomly with no explanation, then comes the frankly baffling cameo by Flash. I was really disappointed by the execution of that whole sequence.
Also, the more I think about it, the more Eisenberg nearly ruined the movie for me. I just could not get on board with his performance. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for new interpretations of established characters so long as they're pulled off well. It was just too goofy and over-the-top, it felt like he was acting in an entirely different film. Poor Cavill, he gets maybe two or three scenes where he's allowed to show an emotion other than sad/angry/depressed/melancholic. I feel like the guy could be a genuinely great Superman, but he's been hamstrung for two films now, unable to bring out the character's more likable qualities for an extended period of time. Hell even in Man of Steel he got to smile at least once and while. As a life-long Superman fan this shit is actually starting to just depress me. I legitimately hope
his character's miraculous resurrection in Justice League will bring about a Superman that's not such a fucking bummer all the time. We've gotten Sadman for two films now, I think we can move on.
And yeah, the
Justice League cameos felt super shoehorned-in. I guess Lex Luthor designed all of their logos as well? Wat?
It wasn't all bad though. As someone who was open-minded about Batffleck from the moment he was cast, I thought he was awesome. Irons was a fantastic Alfred despite his brief screentime - I'm totally ready for the solo Batman movie. Same for Gadot - not much screentime but she definitely made an impression, I'm hyped and ready to go for Wonder Woman.
If I had to give it a number, I'd say 2/5 based on the first viewing. I was pretty disappointed overall, especially after waiting for three years and trying my absolute hardest to stay optimistic about it while swimming in the overwhelming sea of negativity that had engulfed this movie from the moment it was announced. I was on your side, Snyder and WB, I tried my hardest. The movie just felt like a jumbled mess, I'm hoping the Ultimate Cut smooths things out a bit - but a lot of smoothing is going to be needed.
it's really crazy. I'd say I liked it. 6.5 or 7/10. There were parts I liked, parts and I loved, and some meh stuff, but I don't think there was anything I outright hated.
"Movie is too smart for dumb Marvel fans" is a ridiculous thing to say. But I've heard some dumb ass shit coming from people (not particularly Marvel fans) coming out of the movie who clearly couldn't keep up with some of it. The most common complaints were
WHY DID THEY STOP FIGHTING JUST BECAUSE SUPERMAN SAYS HIS MOM'S NAME THAT'S SO DUMB
THE DREAMS WERE SO DUMB WHO THE HELL WAS THAT GUY TALKING TO BRUCE WAYNE
Downloaded it to listen to. Should be interesting. Already 7 minutes in and it already is. If there is a commentary track on the film when it comes out on dvd/bluray, especially the ultimate edition, it's going to be an interesting watch.
Schweinehund
Member
Yeah Bat solo is obvious.
What would make me feel confident in WB is if they announced a Superman solo alongside it, and reaffirmed their slate.
The film is at least looking to hit a billion ww, probably exceeding WB's expectations. I'm sure they're not pleased with the critical reception though.
This. I really want another Superman film more then anything at this moment. It's a given there will be more Batman films. Doesn't even need to be a big epic scale film either. Just a good film of him doing Superman things fighting an enemy.
I'm in the middle and judging by some of the scores in this thread it seems that I'm not the only one.
It's so sad speaking with someone who hasn't seen the movie who has practically made up their mind it will be bad. The type of person that laughs when you tell them you've seen it 3 times. Not that I give much of a shit but it's does get me a little angry when someone insinuates that I have bad taste and am wasting my money. He's going to see it this weekend with an "open mind." I'll never become one of those people. Such a miserable attitude to have when it comes to trying new things. /rant over
It's one thing to not think you'll enjoy something based on feedback and decide to spend your time elsewhere. It's another entirely to pay to see a movie you're already convinced you'll hate.
Anywho, apparently BvS dropped 30% today which doesn't inspire too much confidence going into the weekend. Some are predicting the weekend drop might be as big as 70%. Even so it, I still think it'll get at least within spitting distance of $1B if not break it.
At least they're going to see it, rather than think the review they've read is some decree by an ancient God forbidding anyone to see it.
Thought I'd crosspost it over here too from the spoilers thread. I was conversing with my friend on Facebook and I ended up writing a ton on Batman's portrayal in BvS. I'll quote it here. It might be a bit weird because I'm responding to some specific things he said about the movie.
Anyway, here it is. Lots of spoilers:
Anyway, here it is. Lots of spoilers:
Maybe part of this comes down to how you view the Batman mythos before going into this movie. I feel like my take on Batman as a whole matches up with Snyder's and also with how Snyder wanted to portray him here. Batman is intelligent in certain ways, yes, but he's very lacking in others. His parents murder messing him up has always been one of the biggest parts of his motivation and narrative, and this movie pushed that a lot, too. We've had decades of GET OVER IT BATMAN sort of memes. It's odd that we'd expect him to here suddenly. It's a big deal. It's one of the biggest deals in his entire character and the mythos of Batman.
Now, I don't subscribe to the thought that Batman didn't entirely think of Superman as not a human. There are a few other factors going on. The big thing was that when Wayne tower was falling in Metropolis he what sort of person was he there helping? A little girl who lost her mom. An orphan now, because of Superman. That's basically Batman's trigger. It's something he's very much not rational about and never has been in almost any story I can remember. Yes its a bit troubling, but it always has been. Thats the cornerstone of his character.
There's a rather important conversation with Alfred that talks about his other real motivation. He talks about how Superman is good now, but then says "How many of the good ones stayed good?" reflecting on all the stories we know about Gotham and Batman. This guy has been going after thugs for decades. He barely sees the good in anyone anymore. Everyone has either died or turned bad. So it isn't just that he's not "human," it's that he can't stay good. No one stays good. Even Batman himself doesn't stay good, as evidenced in this movie. If Superman is creating orphans and destruction like that while "good," what could he do if he ever turned? A lot. More than all of Gotham's thugs combined. It could do so much that Bruce is now worried about his legacy. Nothing he's done matters up until this point once you have gods that can fly through buildings and practically blow up the planet. It's full on existential crisis at this point. Thats why his behavior gets even more erratic and violent. What does it matter if hes truly just if someone like Superman exists? So he starts branding people and his no-kill policy obviously gets a bit flimsier. It has to get flimsy. He cant lock up superman. In order to rid himself of this, and in order to have that legacy he spoke of in the film, he has to KILL Superman. Once he sets out on that quest and once that crisis begins there isnt any turning back.
That crisis also builds on another big part of the Batman mythos that I subscribe to. He's usually portrayed as only barely more sane than the people he's locking up. He's a nutcase. He dresses in a bat suit and scares criminals based on his parents being killed as a kid. His motivation belongs in the same psych files as those he goes after. This movie touched on him actually acknowledging that fact. He even states it when he says, "We're criminals, Alfred." So to me the Batman mythos has largely been playing with this mirror of Batman and his "enemies." Often it plays with questions of "What is the difference between them," "What is the same about them," and also "Does Batman see any of these things himself?" I loved that mirror effect when it's pointed at Superman.
That mirror is partially whats happening when Martha is uttered. As I said up there, orphans and the death of his parents are kind of the biggest deals to this man. Its the first event we see when the movie opens. Its why hes Batman. Hes not entirely rational about it. It isnt that martha is just uttered that he stops, its when he hears that its Supermans mother. Superman is no longer a faceless god. He has a mother. I know youre laughing now because obviously hed have a mother! Well I mean he is an alien so really who knows. In all seriousness though, it holds that mirror up to Batman. It shows him that they are the same. It forces that to his view. Not only that, though, it gives him a chance at redemption. His entire being is built on the helplessness that he couldnt save his mother and father and now he has a chance to save Martha. Its redemption for him. Thats why its so important that he has to be the one to save her. He doesnt just let Superman go at this point to save his own mother. HE has to do it.
And then I just have to say I love how the arc closes out, then. Superman, by sacrificing himself, proved Batman wrong and showed theres still good in the world. Superman didnt turn bad. Despite the world being against him at times and despite being hunted by Batman, Superman stayed on the righteous path and ended justly. He became the beacon of hope that his symbol was supposed to be, not only to humanity but to Batman. Batmans path is now righted. The movie bookends itself with two funerals that have a profound impact on Batmans path to justice. In the beginning its the death of his parents and then in the end its Superman. With the first he took the path to becoming Batman because of his failings and with the second one he reclaimed that path again because of those failings. As he said in the end, "I failed him in life. I won't fail him in death."
In the end he has hope from Superman and he's redeemed because he saved Martha. This is perfectly shown by the bookend quotes in the movie. It starts with "There was a time above, a time before. There were perfect things, diamond absolutes. But things fall. And what falls, is fallen." and then it ends with "Man is still good. We break things, tear them down, but we can rebuild. We can be better, we have to be." Those quotes show the stark difference in his mentality and in his path.
The other cool thing about this path is that Batman is a metaphor for the people of earth throughout this, too. He represents mankind, and so by Superman being hope for Batman, he is hope for humanity, too. Throughout the movie its mentioned that Batman represents humanity (Lex jokes about this). I think thats largely what Snyder was trying to get at. Batman is one of the most human superheroes that exists so I think hes a perfect metaphor. Like humanity he wasnt ready for gods. He wasnt ready for Superman.
This weekend is estimated at a 60-65% drop or some where in the 58 to 66 million range. They really need the drop to be less than 60%. If it goes over 65% they're in trouble.
The editor at Box Office Guru thinks the film will hit 1 billion even with some upcoming big drops. Deadline says the film needs to make at least 925-930 million worldwide to turn a profit in it's theatrical release.
I just finished watching Justice League vs. The Teen Titans (which is an extremely misleading title btw, it's basically a Titans movie). It was alright, though some parts of the story was really lazy. The animation and fight choreography was pretty fun though.
Afterwards, it made me think of how fucked it is that WB is sitting on making a Teen Titans movie. Marvel has laid their entire schedule out to 2020 and from here until then, they don't have anything that fits that description. The closest thing Marvel could do is Runaways which isn't going to happen any time soon so the niche is wide open for WB. The Titans have a long history too with plenty of iconic source material. It'd also help offset some of the seriousness of the Snyderverse.
I'm not shy about my slight preference for Marvel comics over DC but goddamn do I love me some Teen Titans. I loved Runaways too but its history is much shorter comparatively. A good Titans movie would slay.
Afterwards, it made me think of how fucked it is that WB is sitting on making a Teen Titans movie. Marvel has laid their entire schedule out to 2020 and from here until then, they don't have anything that fits that description. The closest thing Marvel could do is Runaways which isn't going to happen any time soon so the niche is wide open for WB. The Titans have a long history too with plenty of iconic source material. It'd also help offset some of the seriousness of the Snyderverse.
I'm not shy about my slight preference for Marvel comics over DC but goddamn do I love me some Teen Titans. I loved Runaways too but its history is much shorter comparatively. A good Titans movie would slay.
They could shift the Cyborg solo film into a Titans film at some point in the next few years and nobody would be surprised.
broncobuster
Banned
You know those Robin Joker theories?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=36H12KGjTGE
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=36H12KGjTGE
Unless he's lying for some cause, Snyder says thd idea is Joker killed Robin a decade before BvS.
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Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Beautiful Lie is sooooo good. Think I'll go and watch the movie again this week (third time). Love it.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
I don't know if it is interesting for anyone here but I just looked at the box-office numbers in France for the first week of BvS (movies are released on wednesdays here) and it's not very good. With 1.2 million tickets sold (that's how box-office is reported in France), it's slightly above Man of Steel, but under Deadpool's first week. The movie should end up with around 2.5 million tickets sold, well under Deadpool (3.6 so far) and the Nolan Batman films (4.3 for TDKR).
Of course, not every territory is going to play out the same way and the 3D tax is going to compensate a little bit, but I believe a billion is going to be hard to reach. I don't think it's necessarily a bad sign, the DCCU is already happening anyway but these results are going to force Warner to rethink their approach a little bit and that's probably a good thing. At least I hope so!
Of course, not every territory is going to play out the same way and the 3D tax is going to compensate a little bit, but I believe a billion is going to be hard to reach. I don't think it's necessarily a bad sign, the DCCU is already happening anyway but these results are going to force Warner to rethink their approach a little bit and that's probably a good thing. At least I hope so!
$900m+ avoids any disaster, but $1b would be ideal. It can get there, we just have to let it play out and see what happens. What it has going for it, is no competition for weeks. I do agree that after JL, Snyder has to go. The man is just too divisive and as much as I love MoS and BvS, I don't think he's going to make a highly rated movie. Keep him on as a producer/executive producer and all that stuff, but writer and director he should not be.
I absolutely think that Flash and Shazam should be moved out of 2018/2019 and MoS2 (new director and writer) and Batman solo should be slotted in their places. WB need those to happen and be very successful before throwing all these other guys out there.
I absolutely think that Flash and Shazam should be moved out of 2018/2019 and MoS2 (new director and writer) and Batman solo should be slotted in their places. WB need those to happen and be very successful before throwing all these other guys out there.
KDash31987
Member
Last week, I had to cancel my 6PM Thursday IMAX tickets since my family got sick, and there were tornado warnings in my area.
I'm now finally in a seat in a theater to watch the movie. It's not IMAX, but the tickets were only $5.85 each. My younger brother and I are watching it together for less than the price of one regular ticket, so that's nice.
I already know a lot of what happens in the movie thanks to spoilers. Heh.
I'm now finally in a seat in a theater to watch the movie. It's not IMAX, but the tickets were only $5.85 each. My younger brother and I are watching it together for less than the price of one regular ticket, so that's nice.
I already know a lot of what happens in the movie thanks to spoilers. Heh.
A decade is about the right time for a certain someone to grow up
Poodlestrike
Banned
Yup.
Tweaking the timing just right, it's doable. Batman duels Ra's in the desert, that whole mess goes down, Jason Todd is killed by Joker not long after, solo movie has Damian show up.
What did I just tell you?
Poodlestrike
Banned
I... don't know. What did you just tell me?
Is it something silly about the Batfamily being anything but great?
Because I mostly screen that stuff out.
Bruce being a foster parent is okay. It's the idea that he has a son who's grown in a laboratory without his consent or knowledge that rubs me the wrong way.
Also, Talia is awful. Any work that has Talia is awful.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Talia is awful, but nah. Damian is a fun character, and his arc is enormously entertaining. Talia is a terrible person, but an interesting character.
And I cannot endorse throwing Morrison's Batman under the bus like that. PIstols at dawn, sirrah.
They will be left wondering what this thing could have made if it were received like the first Avengers movie. Hopefully JL will be a different story.
Third viewing upcoming tomorrow, both the next two weekends we will be busy so I will miss my IMAX 2D chance since it's only shown once a day in the middle of the day here or really late at night.
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Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Third time is the charm so....either single digits on RT or Snyder finally nails it and fans/critics love it. They'll probably go for Whedon after JL.
I would take Snyder's worst JL over a Whedon's best JL.
Schweinehund
Member
Listened to Kevin Smith's review, don't think I agree with it. He doesn't understand the moral of the story, which makes sense because
, he was disappointed that the movie was no fun, which is kind of the opposite of what he was preaching when he saw the SDCC trailers. He's such an obvious batfan (which he's not really hiding at all), so it's obvious he was crushed by some choices Snyder made. It was funny he couldn't remember what happened in the first encounter between Batman & Superman
.
I want them sweet JL leaks plz.
Whedon JL would be awful, I probably wouldn't bother watching the movie until Netflix tbh.
he didn't even bother to mention the Batman/Lex scene
which ended with him driving his raggedy ass car home
I want them sweet JL leaks plz.
Whedon JL would be awful, I probably wouldn't bother watching the movie until Netflix tbh.
Chained Prometheus
Member
Yup. That's what I'm thinking is probably gonna happen. Makes total sense- use Bruce finding out about Jason's death/resurrection via Lazarus Pits during the Red Hood storyline to set-up and introduce Damian into the DCEU.
As sad as it is to say, I'm not at all expecting to see Tim, Stephanie or Cassandra in the DCEU. We'll most likely just get Dick, Jason, Barb and Damian as far as the Batfamily is concerned. It's more than what we've seen before in the previous live action Batfilms, but it won't be the whole Batfamily.
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Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
I"ll take Nolan over anyone else, but sadly he won't do it.
Co-signed. I like Whedon's work actually, but he isn't anywhere what Snyder is capable of. I won't ever get the opening of BvS from Whedon.
Discotheque
Banned
whedon's good at banter. but i think he's a bad director and also many of his jokes fall flat for me.
i think bryan singer has so far easily been the best comic book ensemble director. we'll see how the russos do with avengers. or snyder with justice league.
honestly i think peter jackson should do justice league part 2. the hobbit movies were meh (but i still enjoyed myself with the first two) but his heart wasn't in it and also his lotr trilogy had the GOAT adventure movie ensemble.
if he actually gave a shit about this project and took the time for prep this would be an incredible comic book movie.
i think bryan singer has so far easily been the best comic book ensemble director. we'll see how the russos do with avengers. or snyder with justice league.
honestly i think peter jackson should do justice league part 2. the hobbit movies were meh (but i still enjoyed myself with the first two) but his heart wasn't in it and also his lotr trilogy had the GOAT adventure movie ensemble.
if he actually gave a shit about this project and took the time for prep this would be an incredible comic book movie.
I would fucking love that. Maybe a Batman Beyond movie.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Yep, they would be perfect for a Superman or Wonder Woman movie if they had a good co-writer. They can deliver on the visuals and provide the right tone but like Snyder, while they are always very ambitious, they are sometimes lacking when it comes to storytelling.
He can frame them fine, he just can't cut them for shit.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Nolan was good at non hand to hand combat action sequences.
Schweinehund
Member
Nolan's great at storytelling.
Snyder is great at visuals.
We need a clone of them both ala Superboy.
It's hard to find an a-list director that would be interested in doing multiple films, having limited creative control and having a passion for the franchise itself.
My favorite plausible choice is Ben Affleck. George Miller is a runnerup but due to his age, I can't see him chairing more than one film.
Snyder is great at visuals.
We need a clone of them both ala Superboy.
It's hard to find an a-list director that would be interested in doing multiple films, having limited creative control and having a passion for the franchise itself.
My favorite plausible choice is Ben Affleck. George Miller is a runnerup but due to his age, I can't see him chairing more than one film.
Was that the Babble On review or his Fatman on Batman review? His Fatman one is a bit more positive since it's after he'd seen the film a second time and he understood a few of the themes and decisions a bit more.
But Sense8 rocks.
ShemhazaiX
Member
Nah. Neill Blomkamp Green Lantern movie.
Sharlto Copley as Sinestro.
Would also accept J J Abrams. I hate his work, but the tone of his films would actually really suit Green Lanterns.
Or there's always Ridley Scott.
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