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DC Cinematic Universe |OT| Superfriends with Benefits
- Thread starter Penguin
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Limping to its ignoble finishing point. Sad that it was such a commercial and critical failure. I did not hate it, but certainly did not like it. It's surprising that WB let Snyder have so much leeway to go so grimdark and bleak with their main characters. It would be an interesting approach for smaller characters and a lower budget, like say a Red Hood movie. To take that approach for such a big budget film that was meant to kickstart the DCEU is not Sparta, it's madness.
Second one looks like it's from Arkham Knight, like right before Bruce is about to talk to Alfred.
Future Foundation
Member
Where'd these come from?
SJRB
Gold Member
Is it me or does he look even more ripped here than in the movie? More cut/toned, he was more bulky in the movie.
No it wasn't. A film can be something other than a runaway success or a failure. It's going to probably top out around 900M, hardly a failure, disappointing sure, but no failure.
Probably tighter because Gal Gadot mentioned her costume was super tight on her during initial fitting and I remember that Snyder took these photos and shared them the first time they got him on set and in costume.
Marvel has like a dozen films under their belt. WB and DC are two films into their universe. Give it a little more time.
Marvel got Iron Man out (which was really good) and then hit us with Incredible Hulk and then Iron Man 2 (which were not). Let's not rewrite history here, folks. They weren't all winners. Remember, Thor 2 came out AFTER Winter Soldier.
You're right. I should have said commercial disappointment rather than failure. With that said, I can't imagine WB is thrilled with its results.
There are rumblings that it cost more than the stated $250 to make. I'm sure it will be moderately profitable when it's all said and done, but not significantly. Given that it's Batman and Superman together for the first time in cinema that has to be a commercial disappointment. A few months ago suggesting that it would earn less than 1 billion worldwide would have been seen as hyperbolic or overly pessimistic.
Future Foundation
Member
Marvel got Iron Man out (which was really good) and then hit us with Incredible Hulk and then Iron Man 2 (which were not). Let's not rewrite history here, folks. They weren't all winners. Remember, Thor 2 came out AFTER Winter Soldier.
Thor 2 was before Winter Soldier. GoTG came after.
Did it? Well, whatever. Doesn't change my point. Avengers( yay) to IM3 (eesh) to Thor 2 (EESH).
clay_ghost
Member
None of the Marvel films hit the low of DC like Green lantern and BVS though. Marvel overall did have a better track record than DC.
No one is saying they were critical failures. Just that Marvel's movies are not all worth a mark of excellence.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
stop wallowing in self pity already. Marvel Movie Studios puts a metric ton of movies and their not all winners.
Jables Swan
Member
Yeah I think it'll come but WB/DC needs to stop trying to catch up to Marvel and just do their own thing.
ShemhazaiX
Member
Wait till August, I'm sure Suicide Squad will at least be enjoyable.
But what about a good Superman though? I'm still waiting on that.
You and me both, buddy.
BadAss2961
Member
Because of critics?
I don't think Marvel has a single rotten film. That tells me enough about how accurate critics are.
MoS doesnt exist now?
SMH
I saw Superman: Doomsday a couple of nights ago and maybe it was because I was sick as fuck with fever and a sore body but when Lois went and visit Clark's mom after what happened and broke down and the doorstep I shed a tear, no shame I got heart broken right there too.
Damn good stuff this movies ended up being, now what to watch next?
Superman Unbound?
Superman/Batman: Apocalypse
Superman/Batman: Public Enemies
But they are doing their own thing. Some argue that's the problem.
Truth is, we've all put too much thought into what they do or don't need to do. All they need to do is make movies a majority of people enjoy. Dassit. That's easier said than done - there's no "good movie" machine that only Marvel has access to and are using on all their films that don't star Thor - but it's literally that simple.
If Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman (and hell, even Justice League) come out and light the whole damn world on fire, no one is going to care nearly as much about BvS underperforming or what have you. Everyone is just in their feelings right now and it's making them overthink things.
Just make movies people like. Synder hasn't done it thus far, but maybe Ayer, Jenkins, Wan, and/or Affleck will.
they don't have a franchise, no other choice but to go all in.
There's nothing "interesting" about this comparison because I discussed this exact point in a box office thread a few weeks back. Sony didn't scrap the universe -because- of ASM2's performance specifically. They scrapped it because the performance made it more attractive for them to accept the Marvel deal which they estimated would make their film rights more valuable in the future and give them higher returns. WB is doubling down on DCEU because they have no other option. If right now there was an offer on the table which guaranteed better commercial success for the DC brand in the next 5 years, WB would take it in a heartbeat. There is none.
MoS doesnt exist now?
SMH
I saw Superman: Doomsday a couple of nights ago and maybe it was because I was sick as fuck with fever and a sore body but when Lois went and visit Clark's mom after what happened and broke down and the doorstep I shed a tear, no shame I got heart broken right there too.
Damn good stuff this movies ended up being, now what to watch next?
Superman Unbound?
Superman/Batman: Apocalypse
Superman/Batman: Public Enemies
Don't get me wrong I like MoS and I've seen it likely more than anyone here has by a country mile but I'm ready for a good Superman movie. The kinda movie that could potentially stop that "Superman is boring" trash right in its fucking tracks. That's what the hell I want.
Batman/Superman: Apocalypse is my favorite from that list but you can't go wrong with John Noble either.
MoS doesnt exist now?
SMH
I saw Superman: Doomsday a couple of nights ago and maybe it was because I was sick as fuck with fever and a sore body but when Lois went and visit Clark's mom after what happened and broke down and the doorstep I shed a tear, no shame I got heart broken right there too.
Damn good stuff this movies ended up being, now what to watch next?
Superman Unbound?
Superman/Batman: Apocalypse
Superman/Batman: Public Enemies
It's a fantastic movie but it's not really a Superman movie it's a Man of Steel movie. It's a different take and like they've said "Superman's arc is still ongoing". I'm still waiting for a Superman that's actually Superman.
Superman/Batman: Apocalypse has my vote as well, fantastic movie.
One thing SNyder should and need to add to Supes personality is the playfull manner he sometimes has, like he makes some silly comments, Lois has only a towel in the Fortress and says "Will you use your laser sight?" and Supes is all "Nope but I will use my Xray vision" lols.
That kind of stuff is missing badly from the movies.
Jables Swan
Member
I meant more in the fact they seemed to have tried to jump straight to an Avenger type movie without putting any effort into it because it worked for Marvel. I still think WB/DC will be fine at some point but they need to work out what the public actually wants also. Affleck's Batman movie is one I'm looking forward to.
I just feel like we need to see Superman less like a god and more human. Right now it's all "Oh god he's a god with all this power! What do we do" and while yeah it would make sense that's how they would react. We've never seen Superman actually talking to civilians, talking and having a bit of banter with them after saving them.
It's the simple stuff like Routh saving an airplane and saying "Well, I hope this experience hasn't put any of you off flying. Statistically speaking, it's still the safest way to travel."
It's like the argument Nintendo should go mobile and lend their properties to third parties. I get it, but it also makes Sony Pictures seem wholly incompetent; that they don't have the ability to build a 1B movie franchise with Spider-Man and his rogue gallery. Raimi's Spider-Man films came close to a billion. I'm sure they could have done it with today's inflated ticket prices and the Chinese market. You're right though. Striking a deal with Marvel seems like the safer bet in an ever increasingly competitive market.
They're pumping millions into this thing and pinning almost all of their blockbuster hopes on it. Effort is there; it's just taking a different form than what Marvel did. And the only reason it appears to be a lack of "effort" is because, again, they haven't made a movie most people enjoy yet.
BadAss2961
Member
I don't know if they'd be so quick to lend out DC properties when they have more than enough talent and interest to build it themselves, which they're currently doing right now.
Spider-Man is just one property. Sony couldn't quite get the solos right, so any Sinister Six or other spinoff plans obviously wasn't going to work in their current state. They were backed into a corner and took the bailout.
The Men in Black reboot is so going to bomb. :lolSeem?
Completely different scenarios.
The Amazing Spider-Man 2 was profitable, but the bigger problem was that it showed a trend that made it evident the brand had been hurt. It was a drastic underperformance. Spider-Man was a big performer, at a time when ticket prices weren't so inflated and the 3D crutch didn't exist, but the The Amazing Spider-Man was going downhill. That's the opposite of what you want. SPE only has the rights to the movie, and nothing else, so that was a worrying sign for the long-term future. If Spider-Man isn't making bank, then what hope do the minor spin-offs have? I mean, any good movie can breakout, but it's not a positive sign regardless. An uphill battle so to speak.
The deal with Marvel is pretty fantastic for Sony. SPE benefits from Spider-Man being introduced to a successful cinematic universe, and should profit further from the movies while having to do less work. They could be looking at a profit increase of around 200% compared to The Amazing Spider-Man 2. The brand recovers in the process too. Meanwhile, Marvel profits via the impact such movies will have on their merchandise lines, and the impact of introducing Spider-Man into their universe, since he'll be pretty important over the next decade for them. Once Iron Man phases out, unless RDJ decides to stick around for far longer, they're going to be without their biggest hitter, and the reason why the big movies perform over a billion dollars worldwide. The idea is for Spider-Man to slowly become that replacement. What does SPE have to lose here? This is probably the one smart thing they've done in a decade. They've got someone to act as their lapdog while they sit around and reap the rewards.
Contrast that to Warner Bros. who own everything related to their movies. BvS is technically a bigger disaster than The Amazing Spider-Man 2, and by a country mile, but it'll likely churn out a couple hundred million dollars in profit, and that's before they start weighing up their merchandise sales and whatnot. Aside from a few obsessive fans on the internet who don't know what they're talking about, that's not a business failure to anyone. Even as a disappointment, it's a strong sign to them for the kind of potential they have if they actually start hitting their stride. What they need to decide is whether they want to allow the filmmakers to have so much control over the movie, or whether they want to keep the bigger picture in mind and focus on making the venture as profitable as possible. The former has usually been their philosophy, but I'm pretty sure they're moving towards the latter now. They've already indicated that they're going to be far less riskier than they have been, and that's not really a good thing for film fans.
The bigger problem for them coming out of BvS is they've likely hurt Superman's potential. Justice League is a new brand, and can do fine as long as the movie doesn't have a toxic reception. Zack Snyder is still associated with it, but that'll mean little if the movie is received well. Batman won't have been affected so his solo movies are going to be fine. But Superman is strongly associated with Zack Snyder, and two movies which haven't lit the world on fire, so they'll have to be careful with how they use him again. The smart move here really would be to use that Shazam movie since you can give diehards the Superman they want. The timing will be right since the Superman story is finishing with Justice League. The fact that you have a huge star like The Rock to potentially stand opposite him makes it a movie with a good amount of potential too.
I'm hoping they let Zack Snyder do what he wants with Justice League, since I want to see his trilogy finished, but that's probably not happening.
Edit:
That's probably the one movie they have coming that's more likely to be a success.
I completely agree. WB fumbled on Superman; they didn't even plan to use Man of Steel as a means to kickstart their own franchise. Now that Snyder has laid his groundwork, there is no turning back. It makes me sad if the higher-ups are going to shackle Snyder.
BadAss2961
Member
They'll have a closer eye on him, for sure. But Justice League was probably supposed to be the big payoff movie anyway. The JL brand is naturally lighter and more crowd-pleasing than the Frank Miller inspired Batman v Superman story. So the content itself fixes certain areas where execs might meddle in reaction to BvS reception.
Naturally lighter and more crowd-pleasing stuff like Injustice.
Pretty much. Ever since I heard someone here explain what Captain Marvel is, it seems like such an obvious route. Superman's story is done in the next movie, so why not have his reintroduction as Prime Superman, or whatever the hell you want to call the boyscout Superman, be in a movie where he has to guide a younger hero. It's a good way to establish his new role moving forward.
Now, I'm not saying my desire to see The Rock vs. Superman isn't affecting me in any way, but that's really just a huge added bonus in this context. Like, you couldn't make it easier for someone.
BadAss2961
Member
Nah, I think that timeline is shut. At least for now.
johnnydrama
Banned
Why can't we just have a Superman/Batman film where they are friends and just fuck shit up?
I mean I'm assuming we'll see that in either JL1 or 2.
I've said it a few times. While I enjoyed BvS. If it has to be the sacrificial lamb for this Universe to hit it's stride then so be it.
Because that would've been too much fun and made too much sense.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
The next Superman outing will have him be evil, brainwash or something else. There's no way they can resist digging into that wellspring.
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