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[hamchan]

....I understand this talk to Watchmen or even 300 .... but Batman vs Superman ? Justice League ? Those should be comfort food movies all the way in

Nah it's good to be ambitious, trying to do something different. Especially when the competition at Marvel at basically killing it with the comfort food in both box office and critical acclaim, so I admire Snyder's approach instead of just copying them.

Though I don't think his execution has been very good or that he completely knows what he's doing, I can at least appreciate his mindset going in.

 

[Dead]

Nah it's good to be ambitious, trying to do something different. Especially when the competition at Marvel at basically killing it with the comfort food in both box office and critical acclaim, so I admire Snyder's approach instead of just copying them.

Though I don't think his execution has been very good or that he completely knows what he's doing, I can at least appreciate his mindset going in.

I mean, I feel he kinda does at least in regards to what kind of story he wants to tell. The thematic through-line from Man of Steel carries itself directly into Dawn of Justice pretty neatly.

Man of Steel has it's faults, but in the end it's still a movie I find far more emotionally effective than most every other cape movie, so that movie worked in getting me invested in the universe. Batman and Superman carried the story in a pretty logical path following the themes of MoS but is really let down by patchy characterization, plotting, editing and pacing, which im hoping the DC will fix.

 

[KonradLaw]

I mean, I feel he kinda does at least in regards to what kind of story he wants to tell. The thematic through-line from Man of Steel carries itself directly into Dawn of Justice pretty neatly.

Man of Steel has it's faults, but in the end it's still a movie I find far more emotionally effective than most every other cape movie, so that movie worked in getting me invested in the universe. Batman and Superman carried the story in a pretty logical path following the themes of MoS but is really let down by patchy characterization, plotting, editing and pacing, which im hoping the DC will fix.

What I like is that so far there's clear progression from one movie to another beyond just being set in generally the same world. Men of Steel was what whole BvS was built upon, but then you get Suicide Squad, which from trailers looks to be formed directly as response to superpowered craziness of previous two movies.

 

[IconGrist]

I really thought the direction for Superman in either movie was really clear. I feel adding Batman and Wonder Woman to the movie was a mistake. Their inclusion didn't do Superman's character any favors. Lex is already enough to bring Superman down a peg or two but then to have Batman spank him pretty hard in a fight AND have him die not soon after was just overkill. Supes gained nothing from either of those situations. And because those are the big events no one remembers the actual meaty stuff going on with his character arc earlier in the movie.

 

[Ninjimbo]

....I understand this talk to Watchmen or even 300 .... but Batman vs Superman ? Justice League ? Those should be comfort food movies all the way in

Going to have to disagree here. These Hollywood Blockbusters take like two or three years to make. I want that movie to be something memorable instead of something that will be forgotten in a week. Batman and Superman should never be comfort food.

 

[Dead]

I really thought the direction for Superman in either movie was really clear. I feel adding Batman and Wonder Woman to the movie was a mistake. Their inclusion didn't do Superman's character any favors. Lex is already enough to bring Superman down a peg or two but then to have Batman spank him pretty hard in a fight AND have him die not soon after was just overkill. Supes gained nothing from either of those situations. And because those are the big events no one remembers the actual meaty stuff going on with his character arc earlier in the movie.

I mean, you can make the case for Wonder Woman either way, I don't think her inclusion really does much to muddy the plotting any, and you could remove that e-mail scene while keeping everything else without a problem, and at the same time you could remove her entirely. I think it was a good enough lead in for the sequels.

In regards to Batman, I think the main issue is just the imbalance in the movie proper, where it feels centered on him far too much, despite the fact that the story revolves around Superman with Bats being an actor in that story. Again, Im hoping the DC will restore a significant amount of footage featuring Clark/Supes to fix the imbalance, which is looking like a good bet with stuff like the Clark/Gotham subplot being restored and hopefully that scene where he returns from his exile to find his mom.

 

[IconGrist]

I mean, you can make the case for Wonder Woman either way, I don't think her inclusion really does much to muddy the plotting any, and you could remove that e-mail scene while keeping everything else without a problem, and at the same time you could remove her entirely. I think it was a good enough lead in for the sequels.

In regards to Batman, I think the main issue is just the imbalance in the movie proper, where it feels centered on him far too much, despite the fact that the story revolves around Superman with Bats being an actor in that story. Again, Im hoping the DC will restore a significant amount of footage featuring Clark/Supes to fix the imbalance, which is looking like a good bet with stuff like the Clark/Gotham subplot being restored and hopefully that scene where he returns from his exile to find his mom.

I remember Snyder saying that Batman was a focus early on (I assume he meant the intro and Black Zero Event scenes) but there was a balance of their screen time afterwards. What we got in theaters was not like that at all. The plot centered around him but e wasn't actually in it much. I hope a good chunk of that 30 minutes are his scenes.

 

[Dead]

Btw, I guess the DC is literally 30 minutes longer

http://www.fandangonow.com/details/...ion-2016/MMV31E5DEE87A7C497D76BE973AA722A4E75

2016 R 181 min.

181 vs 151. Longest capeflick ever since Watchmen. The only comic based movie I can think of that is longer than either is Blue is the Warmest Color

 

[broncobuster]

Who knows if the story behind the production comes out but cutting Clark's story is baffling...I say having not seen those scenes yet. I understand why you'd keep the knightmare in. It's a fully realized big action scene shot on IMAX. But was the bullet subplot that important?

And regarding the comfort food quote, for me Nolan and Singer are successful at making a crowd pleaser without compromising ideas. Although both went too far with Superman Returns and TDKRises. Civil War is the closest the MCU came and a large part why I enjoyed it so much.

 

[Ninjimbo]

I remember Snyder saying that Batman was a focus early on (I assume he meant the intro and Black Zero Event scenes) but there was a balance of their screen time afterwards. What we got in theaters was not like that at all. The plot centered around him but e wasn't actually in it much. I hope a good chunk of that 30 minutes are his scenes.

If that leak on /tv/ about the content in the UC is accurate, we will get more Clark. I think it mentioned scenes of Clark questioning the criminals caught by Batman and some others.

Edit: Just to add a bit more, there was also that story that surfaced a few months before release saying that the WB execs were pushing for more Batman in the movie.

 

[Dead]

If that leak on /tv/ about the content in the UC is accurate, we will get more Clark. I think it mentioned scenes of Clark questioning the criminals caught by Batman and some others.

I believe there were set photos of Clark in a prison looking setting, so that could be right.

 

[Future Foundation]

If that leak on /tv/ about the content in the UC is accurate, we will get more Clark. I think it mentioned scenes of Clark questioning the criminals caught by Batman and some others.

What leak?

 

[Ninjimbo]

What leak?

Anonymous poster on /tv/ listed a bunch of scenes that were going to be in the UC. The picture of the post should be on GAF somewhere. Some of the scenes mentioned in that post seemed like they would fit and sounded like material you could cut in order to make the runtime demands.

 

[Discotheque]

Who knows if the story behind the production comes out but cutting Clark's story is baffling...I say having not seen those scenes yet. I understand why you'd keep the knightmare in. It's a fully realized big action scene shot on IMAX. But was the bullet subplot that important?

And regarding the comfort food quote, for me Nolan and Singer are successful at making a crowd pleaser without compromising ideas. Although both went too far with Superman Returns and TDKRises. Civil War is the closest the MCU came and a large part why I enjoyed it so much.

agreed with all of this, though i think civil war stumbled with pacing problems that nolan's first two movies or singer's xmen stuff never really had.

i've seen BvS twice and I still don't really get what they were going for with the bullet subplot or why lex's men killed those people in Africa. They were shot...therefore it's freaking obvious superman didn't kill them right? Or am I misinterpreting it.

 

[Dead]

agreed with all of this, though i think civil war stumbled with pacing problems that nolan's first two movies or singer's xmen stuff never really had.

i've seen BvS twice and I still don't really get what they were going for with the bullet subplot or why lex's men killed those people in Africa. They were shot...therefore it's freaking obvious superman didn't kill them right? Or am I misinterpreting it.

From what both Snyders said, the Africa scene was cut the hell up in the theatrical cut, so it's understandable a lot of people missed the point.

Either way, the intention behind the scene and subplot isn't that Superman picked up a gun and killed those people, but Superman's intervention (until now he'd stayed away from any political situations) in the area was the fuse that lit the trigger which caused all sorts of killings involving the rebels, terrorists, civilians etc. Essentially, his arrival destabilized the situation leading to deaths that would not have occurred otherwise. This is what triggers the hearings, the pundits arguing for when he should and should not intervene, etc, etc.

Now Lex created the situation as a setup using the presence of Lois, and having his goons create the setup by killing the villagers before/upon Superman's arrival. The whole bullet subplot (ive seen people refer to it as a magic bullet...which it really isn't, it's unmarked using a special alloy) is just a way to keep Lois weaved into the plot as a way for her to figure out that Lex behind it as the bullet is made of an alloy fabricated only by lexcorp which she could only find out once she used her government insider, so it wasn't exactly an off the shelf Lexcorp bullet.

 

[Future Foundation]

Anonymous poster on /tv/ listed a bunch of scenes that were going to be in the UC. The picture of the post should be on GAF somewhere. Some of the scenes mentioned in that post seemed like they would fit and sounded like material you could cut in order to make the runtime demands.

In this thread or somewhere in OT? Do you remember any details?

 

[Discotheque]

thanks. that makes much more sense, wish it was clearer to understand in the movie. tbh i think that lois/bullet investigation should have been dropped in favor of lois just outright investigating lexcorp itself if they wanted to give her something to do.

that way the audience would be able to follow the bigger picture more clearly before lex drops the big reveal on superman.

in fact maybe she should be looking at those damn clips instead of bruce and diana freaking exchanging Justice League Youtube clips via email lmao. maybe have bruce already being aware of the metahumans and he hints at it with the end speech with wonder woman at the funeral. the justice league set up was not very good in the movie imo.

 

[Dead]

I think they just want to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to Lois. Like they want her to be a strong and independent character who does her own thing as an investigative journalist, but still have those damsel in distress moments with Superman.

Either way, I'm never against more Amy Adams in a movie ;P

The africa stuff, yeah I hope it will be clearer in the DC, that scene being cut up was one of the first things Snyder talked about being compromised in the theatrical cut

 

[antovolk]

Going to have to disagree here. These Hollywood Blockbusters take like two or three years to make. I want that movie to be something memorable instead of something that will be forgotten in a week. Batman and Superman should never be comfort food.

But the flip side of that argument is that they cost a helluvalot to make and therefore should be comfort food for maximum mass appeal and box office so they can make a decent profit. Not that I think this sort of argument is good artistically, but from a purely economic mindset it makes sense.

BvS and the final two Hunger Games (unpopular opinion, I think they're good, and actually great when watched as one 4h+ film) showed how people respond to non-comfort food stories in their blockbuster cinema. And that's unfortunate. I think there should be room for these sorts of films in the big budget tentpole pantheon....but yeah the demand of the marketplace especially today compared to back when Nolan's trilogy was in its prime says otherwise.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

But the flip side of that argument is that they cost a helluvalot to make and therefore should be comfort food for maximum mass appeal and box office so they can make a decent profit. Not that I think this sort of argument is good artistically, but from a purely economic mindset it makes sense.

BvS and the final two Hunger Games (unpopular opinion, I think they're good, and actually great when watched as one 4h+ film) showed how people respond to non-comfort food stories in their blockbuster cinema. And that's unfortunate. I think there should be room for these sorts of films in the big budget tentpole pantheon....but yeah the demand of the marketplace especially today compared to back when Nolan's trilogy was in its prime says otherwise.

I know you're right when it comes to the economics side of the argument, marvel has really made it so that only one type of Comic book movie is "accepted" more or less and anything else that deviates from the formula is threading shaky ground.

But as a consumer and a fan I like movies like BvS more that are not cookie cutter and take some chances, that do the unexpected.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

But the flip side of that argument is that they cost a helluvalot to make and therefore should be comfort food for maximum mass appeal and box office so they can make a decent profit. Not that I think this sort of argument is good artistically, but from a purely economic mindset it makes sense.

Bruh, DC can't win regardless of what they do, unless they travel time and tell Donner that his portrayal of Sociopath Superman will poison the well forever.

 

[IconGrist]

So, uhh, we are less than 50 pages away from needing a second DCEU Community thread, lol. We went through this one much faster than the BvS thread.

 

[KonradLaw]

But the flip side of that argument is that they cost a helluvalot to make and therefore should be comfort food for maximum mass appeal and box office so they can make a decent profit. Not that I think this sort of argument is good artistically, but from a purely economic mindset it makes sense.

BvS and the final two Hunger Games (unpopular opinion, I think they're good, and actually great when watched as one 4h+ film) showed how people respond to non-comfort food stories in their blockbuster cinema. And that's unfortunate. I think there should be room for these sorts of films in the big budget tentpole pantheon....but yeah the demand of the marketplace especially today compared to back when Nolan's trilogy was in its prime says otherwise.

I;m not sure about that. Risky movies can still work, they just need to be budgeted properly. In DC Cinemativ Universe you can have both. A megaproduction monsters with 200+ mln budgets like BvS or Justice League should be done as comfort food: safe and fun. But there's no reason why you can't also put couple cheaper (100-150 mln movies) out that aim for something riskier. Suicide Squad looks like it might end up this way and Deadpool showed such moves can be rewarded as long as you don't need billion dollars to make a decent profit.

A lot of younger directors grew up with those characters and they can make more ambitous movies with them than just comfort food. I seriously doubt Affleck would want to direct his own Batman solo movie if he couldn't make an attempt at something richer than comfort food.

Plus WB wants to do 3 DC movies per year. So they can have two more safe bets and one risky one.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

I;m not sure about that. Risky movies can still work, they just need to be budgeted properly. In DC Cinemativ Universe you can have both. A megaproduction monsters with 200+ mln budgets like BvS or Justice League should be done as comfort food: safe and fun. But there's no reason why you can't also put couple cheaper (100-150 mln movies) out that aim for something riskier. Suicide Squad looks like it might end up this way and Deadpool showed such moves can be rewarded as long as you don't need billion dollars to make a decent profit.

The MCU's cheapest movie is Antman, One-hundred forty million dollar budget, which in itself is a very safe movie. The only way go risky is to more than halve that budget down to Deadpool's budget of $58 million.


Also

DC Cinematic Universe 2 |OT| Of Marthas and Men

 

[antovolk]

The way Disney have been successful is at the core of it all delivering on what the market demands from big budget blockbuster tentpole films - with everything else (the thematics, 'grittier' tones in the Russos' films etc) being just additional layers on top.

The two examples I mentioned - BvS and Mockingjay - played with that core in their own ways (the former took familiar characters and while keeping up the action/spectacle quota if not outright beating it, it played around with the cores of the characters and the whole approach, the tonal core and so on, of the story; the latter turned the whole thing on its head by becoming a slow burn 4 hour war drama as opposed to an all out action revolution people expected after Catching Fire) and essentially 'paid the price' for it, for better or worse.

But as a consumer and a fan I like movies like BvS more that are not cookie cutter and take some chances, that do the unexpected.

I completely agree, same here. I guess mass appeal v artistry - that's the whole balance that blockbusters filmmakers really need to keep in mind.....

 

[Ninjimbo]

In this thread or somewhere in OT? Do you remember any details?

I can't remember any specific thread it was in. Sorry. I don't remember any more details except the Clark stuff and something the poster labeled a "Communion" scene which only stands out because it sounds so ominous.

Of course, take any of the details with a grain of salt. I only bring it up because it's the only thing we have to go on regarding this UC.

 

[IconGrist]

I can't remember any specific thread it was in. Sorry. I don't remember any more details except the Clark stuff and something the poster labeled a "Communion" scene which only stands out because it sounds so ominous.

Of course, take any of the details with a grain of salt. I only bring it up because it's the only thing we have to go on regarding this UC.

Memory is hazy on this but this is what I remember.

Extended Africa scene.
Clark investigates Batman by interviewing criminals he put away.
Barbara Gordon flashback.
Death of Robin flashback.
Extended titular fight.
Extended warehouse fight.
Extended Doomsday fight.
Additional scenes that flesh out various plot threads.
Rearranged order of events from theatrical cut.

In think there was one or two more but I can't recall.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I can't remember any specific thread it was in. Sorry. I don't remember any more details except the Clark stuff and something the poster labeled a "Communion" scene which only stands out because it sounds so ominous.

Of course, take any of the details with a grain of salt. I only bring it up because it's the only thing we have to go on regarding this UC.

The Communion was that released scene, and the Clark stuff was talked about in a Deborah Snyder interview. Think you might be conflating some stuff

 

[Penguin]

So, uhh, we are less than 50 pages away from needing a second DCEU Community thread, lol. We went through this one much faster than the BvS thread.

Already have the title of the next thread....
"Challenge of the Superfriends"

Yes, I will continue to make Superfriends references in all my thread titles!

 

[SJRB]

The Director's Cut is going to be awesome, I can feel it.

Snyder's redemption.

 

[Ahasverus]

Already have the title of the next thread....
"Challenge of the Superfriends"

Yes, I will continue to make Superfriends references in all my thread titles!

No plz

 

[GreyOcelot]

Memory is hazy on this but this is what I remember.

Extended Africa scene.
Clark investigates Batman by interviewing criminals he put away.
Barbara Gordon flashback.
Death of Robin flashback.
Extended titular fight.
Extended warehouse fight.
Extended Doomsday fight.
Additional scenes that flesh out various plot threads.
Rearranged order of events from theatrical cut.

In think there was one or two more but I can't recall.

i don't think these things were confirmed. we know jena malone's barbara is in the movie, but was it ever confirmed as a flashback? it was also never confirmed that they filmed a robin death, nor anything with jared leto for this movie. i'd have to believe that the higher ups would have cut the knightmare sequence over a scene with leto's joker

EDIT: these are the rumored additions? interesting. snyder confirmed that the africa scene is different, the doomsday fight has more, the warehouse fight is more violent

 

[IconGrist]

i don't think these things were confirmed. we know jena malone's barbara is in the movie, but was it ever confirmed as a flashback? it was also never confirmed that they filmed a robin death, nor anything with jared leto for this movie. i'd have to believe that the higher ups would have cut the knightmare sequence over a scene with leto's joker

This is all stuff that came from 4chan. All we really know for sure is the Communion scene.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Already have the title of the next thread....
"Challenge of the Superfriends"

Yes, I will continue to make Superfriends references in all my thread titles!

DC Cinematic Universe |OT| World's Finest Superfriends and Challenges

 

[GreyOcelot]

This is all stuff that came from 4chan. All we really know for sure is the Communion scene.

gotcha, sorry for the confusion

 

[IconGrist]

gotcha, sorry for the confusion

Eh, I could have worded it better, lol.

 

[Ninjimbo]

The Communion was that released scene, and the Clark stuff was talked about in a Deborah Snyder interview. Think you might be conflating some stuff

Nah, it exist. I just don't remember. :O

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Can we agree on spoiler tagging the not seen stuff ? I don't want to know what I am going to see when I watch those 30 minutes. Thanks.

 

[Lord Virgin]

More violent warehouse scene? Goddamn.

 

[IconGrist]

More violent warehouse scene? Goddamn.

Apparently where the movie got its R.

 

[guek]

I know you're right when it comes to the economics side of the argument, marvel has really made it so that only one type of Comic book movie is "accepted" more or less and anything else that deviates from the formula is threading shaky ground.

err, I don't believe that's actually true at all. Kick-Ass, Kingsmen, Deadpool, and the X-Men franchise are all notably different in tone and execution compared to the MCU. Suicide Squad also look very different and is expected to do well. This just sounds like an excuse for Snyder more than anything else. At worst, you could say the MCU has made people expect regular doses of comedy from comicbook movies but we got that in the Raimi films as well.

 

[shingi70]

Justice League is the DC film I think I'm least looking forward to now, but it's still a damn intriguing production. Everything about screams it could fall to the same pitfalls if BvS, but at the same time it could have its strengths and benefit from being leaner storywise.

 

[Lord Virgin]

Apparently where the movie got its R.

Can't wait for an even more brutal Batfleck, that will be glorious. And not to mention; NOT MUH BATMAN!. I mean, he will put them in such horrible conditions...might as well kill them.

 

[IconGrist]

Can't wait for an even more brutal Batfleck, that will be glorious. And not to mention; NOT MUH BATMAN!. I mean, he will put them in such horrible conditions...might as well kill them.

Brutal Batman is best Batman. I never cared much for the "knows every martial art in the world" style. I like when Batman is not about fancy moves and just puts you down. Like he doesn't have time for your bullshit.

 

[Lord Virgin]

Brutal Batman is best Batman. I never cared much for the "knows every martial art in the world" style. I like when Batman is not about fancy moves and just puts you down. Like he doesn't have time for your bullshit.

You mean like he did with

Spoiler

Superman?

 

[IconGrist]

You mean like he did with

Spoiler

Superman?

Goddamn you, Snyder!! *shakes fist*

 

[guek]

Brutal Batman is best Batman. I never cared much for the "knows every martial art in the world" style. I like when Batman is not about fancy moves and just puts you down. Like he doesn't have time for your bullshit.

I'm still waiting for my ninja Batman :-(

The scene at the docks in Begins is the closest thing we've ever gotten.

 

[IconGrist]

I'm still waiting for my ninja Batman :-(

The scene at the docks in Begins is the closest thing we've ever gotten.

Like ninja fighting skills or more like predator Batman from the Arkham games? If the latter I'd almost guarantee that's a thing we see in the DCEU at some point.

 

[Ninjimbo]

Brutal Batman, Ninja Batman, what about Scrappy Batman? I like those scenes in the Nolan trilogy where it's just Bruce in a skully getting into hospital rooms or sneaking inside the police station to talk to Gordon. More Batman like the one in Zero Year, I say.

 

[Rooster12]

Brutal Batman is best Batman. I never cared much for the "knows every martial art in the world" style.

It's impossible to portray that in a movie anyway