It's the 4th highest debut for a solo origin story so that's pretty nice to celebrate for DC/WB. That's aside from what it means for female directed and female led action movies. Keep in mind it was tracking for 65 million less than a month ago.
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DC Extended Universe |OT3| A League of Academy Award Winners
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It's the 4th highest debut for a solo origin story so that's pretty nice to celebrate for DC/WB. That's aside from what it means for female directed and female led action movies. Keep in mind it was tracking for 65 million less than a month ago.
I know the stakes. It's just funny to me.
While I think they were being very conservative even WB was saying 65-75 million.
Headlines like the one we have today with it breaking 100 million is just good press and will hopefully serve the movie well going forward.
It's a very solid opening. I'm not sure what you're looking for.
I think it's five things all converging at once that make WW and it's box office receipts such a big deal:
1 - Female director
2 - Female lead
3 - Blockbuster budget ($150+ million)
4 - Excellent box office returns
5 - Critically acclaimed
We can all name films that check off one, two, maybe even three of those boxes, but all five? I think Wonder Woman is the first in film history to do it - which is an achievement that is worth making special mention of.
Then of course there's the icing on the cake that this is the first DCEU film that has received both critical praise and made a shitload of money.
I get all of that. I was just looking at the raw numbers of it and thinking about it financially. Take away all the gender politics, and what we're basically left with is a movie that performed worse than the two movies that preceded it. It's not hard to imagine a situation where haters would be taking that result and using it as ammo to further knock the DCEU, which is why I find it funny that so many people have to eat crow on this.
Shit, I lowballed the hell out of WW and I'll happily eat mine. I think I predicted something like 40% on Rotten and like 80 million on OW. The sky is the limit for this movie it seems. Seeing all the praise for it from the audience, to celebrities, to women, it all feels good while feeling a little strange as well.
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
Good point. So does that DC cares more about Black Adam now than Shazam?
MugiwaraCole
Member
You don't get to take away the gender politics from a Wonder Woman movie. That there aren't more movies like Wonder Woman (and soon, Black Panther) is the reason we prop these successes up when they come. Also, no one is using this movie's lower opening to further knock the DCEU because, believe it or not, there aren't that many DCEU "haters". Thinking the first 3 movies were shit just means you thought they were shit. Most of us want to see these movies do well, and it seems we mostly all thought this was a good movie. Nothing to knock. It's not rocket science.
Donald Glover said it best when he thanked white men the world over for dominating film and TV for so long that anything starring anyone that's not a white man seems way more fresh and original than it actually is.
$100 million is a fine achievement for the movie. The DCEU now joins Hunger Games as the only film franchises with their first 4 installments all having $100 million + openings. Part of that stems from the fact that we're in an era that makes openings like this almost always expected of superhero films, but not even all of the MCU's new properties reach that milestone today. Yes, this is a big deal.
It's the better character so probably. Shazam is low budget magical Superman.
Marvel's strengths lie in their marketing and the quality of their films, but DC has by far, the most recognizable roster, if only because of their long legacy.
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
Yeah I suppose. Plus I always think that Black Adam's black and yellow aesthetic is better than Shazam's red, yeah, and white.
MugiwaraCole
Member
I agree, which is why I argued for weeks that Wonder Woman wasn't really being given enough respect, from WB or people projecting her debut figures. Contrary to what a lot of people think, she has one of the more recognizable names in comics. She's THE female hero.
I take great pride in her and Aquaman being the apparent saving graces of the DCEU while Marvel's billion dollar franchise has been propped up by its own C-list heroes. Everyone is getting a time to shine now, not just the big 4 (Batman, Spidey, Supes, and the X-Men).
I liked it, but my enjoyment was hampered a bit due to people behind me having to do running commentary throughout the film and their child making noise too.
I have a few questions regarding the ending, I don't have much knowledge about WW so the answers may be obvious to those who know.
Sorry if these have been asked before.
I have a few questions regarding the ending, I don't have much knowledge about WW so the answers may be obvious to those who know.
What exactly is Ares power set? It seemed during the end battle he was just a juiced up sith lord. I figured he would be able to summon the souls of warriors past to fight for him or to summon from air more advanced weapons used throughout history rather than just use telekinesis to manipulate the materials surrounding him. And is WW able to control the lighting Ares threw at her due to her being Zeus' daughter?
Sorry if these have been asked before.
1- We don't know it here.
2- Yes, implied.
broncobuster
Banned
There are two ways you can play Captain Marvel/Shazam. Arguably the more popular approach has a strong hook: It's like Big with superpowers. Billy Batson is a good-natured kid who, recently, helps a wizard and is granted the power of the gods, which also transforms him into an adult.
That doesn't change the fact that Black Adam, hero turned villain turned anithero is the better character,
I wonder if they're gonna keep the sequels set in the past or jump forward like Winter Soldier.
It would be cool if they explored the Egyptian branch of the Amazons.
Circe/Artemis seem like the logical choice for the next antagonists. And Circe better have purple hair!
I've seen people call for Giganta or Cheetah...Not the biggest comic reader but nah. Giganta can be some monster or lackey. Cheetah can stay on the page and in cartoons.
It would be cool if they explored the Egyptian branch of the Amazons.
Circe/Artemis seem like the logical choice for the next antagonists. And Circe better have purple hair!
I've seen people call for Giganta or Cheetah...Not the biggest comic reader but nah. Giganta can be some monster or lackey. Cheetah can stay on the page and in cartoons.
It should be a current day story with flashbacks to the past intercut in. Like a villain she faced before is now back in the present.
There's no way we don't get The Cheetah at some point. She's Wonder Woman's most famous rogue for better or worse. It'd be like if Iron Man never did The Mandarian.
Pairing her with Circe seems the most obvious path, since Circe's whole thing is turning humans into animals. You bring in Barbara Minerva as Diana's friend, have her corrupted by Circe, big tragic ending fight between Wonder Woman and Cheetah.
We also need Circe in her Dark WW armor.
Pairing her with Circe seems the most obvious path, since Circe's whole thing is turning humans into animals. You bring in Barbara Minerva as Diana's friend, have her corrupted by Circe, big tragic ending fight between Wonder Woman and Cheetah.
We also need Circe in her Dark WW armor.
broncobuster
Banned
That's exactly what I want. Little vignettes of Diana in the past hundred years. Fighting various battles. You get the sadness of Diana staying the same age as Etta and her friends grow older and pass away. Maybe she searches for Themyscira but can't locate it. And the villain is metaphorically (and literally as Circe) her past catching up with her.
Yeah, these DCEU films have a pretty high floor but I'm curious to see which is going to break into that $400m mega blockbuster territory. I think Batfleck could do it if it turns out well.
It writes itself!There's no way we don't get The Cheetah at some point. She's Wonder Woman's most famous rogue for better or worse. It'd be like if Iron Man never did The Mandarian.
Pairing her with Circe seems the most obvious path, since Circe's whole thing is turning humans into animals. You bring in Barbara Minerva as Diana's friend, have her corrupted by Circe, big tragic ending fight between Wonder Woman and Cheetah.
We also need Circe in her Dark WW armor.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Wonder Woman's rogue gallery is pretty weak if I am being honest.
Batman, Spider-Man, Iron Man, Superman, Deadpool. The only solo films to open above Wonder Woman (CW was more Avengers 2.5).
It stomped on every female led superhero film before it.
Very few heroes have really great rogue galleries. You got Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, and The Flash as heroes with amazing rogues across the board. Maybe I can stretch to the X-Men.
Beyond that, they tend to get very top heavy, with 1-3 really good ones and the rest are just okay.
Though, in terms of a movie, it doesn't really matter. They've been able to cook up 3 Iron Man movies and his rogues are mostly just shit versions of him.
I think they're fine, just lesser known. You can do interesting things with Circe, Veronica Cale, Maxwell Lord, First Born, Cheetah or Giganta.
Precisely.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
You are probably right. Circe seems to be the most interesting to me, would be cool if Zatanna could be a villain.
broncobuster
Banned
Honestly, a number of the villains are practically blank slates to do what they want with.
And,
And,
Yep. Their Doctor Poison is for example an almost 80% new concept, and I'd be surprised if it doesn't become the main one from now on.
Looks like Patty read the Aquaman script. Nice.
One thing I'd like to see more of from superhero movies is throwaway villains. Not every villains needs to or should carry a movie.
I'd love it if the next Wonder Woman movie opened with a big, fun fight scene between Diana and someone like Silver Swan or Angle Man. Something to help establish that there are a lot of villains running around.
I'd love it if the next Wonder Woman movie opened with a big, fun fight scene between Diana and someone like Silver Swan or Angle Man. Something to help establish that there are a lot of villains running around.
GringoSuave89
Banned
You need to sit the fuck down. Don't mess with my queen.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Flash is a good candidate for that I believe, maybe Batman, too.
Why would you want that?
Because I am thirsty it seems like. Also, I don't mean that in a "pure villain" POV. She could have her reasons.
lovely ladies
Member
Zatanna could be the 3rd biggest heroine in their movie universe if they portray her right, I wouldn't waste her as a villain.
Can't wait.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
As I said, set her up as a villain, but then become superfriends.
Zatanna is unique compared to those.
GringoSuave89
Banned
Oh yeah, finally saw WW. By God, so fucking good.
If you want female sorceress who's not Circe as a villain, try Morgaine Le Fay.
Zatanna has a ton of potential as a solo hero. Honestly, I think DC's female roster has more franchise potential than Marvel's. I could see Zatanna, Vixen, Hawkgirl, Batwoman, Black Canary, Batgirl, Harley, and Supergirl all steering solo outings.
Marvel might be able to make something happen with Cap. Marvel, but after that.....eh.
It's a damn shame we're about to be 4 seasons into the Flash TV show and they still have given us a long Flash vs The Rogues story.
Zatanna has a ton of potential as a solo hero. Honestly, I think DC's female roster has more franchise potential than Marvel's. I could see Zatanna, Vixen, Hawkgirl, Batwoman, Black Canary, Batgirl, Harley, and Supergirl all steering solo outings.
Marvel might be able to make something happen with Cap. Marvel, but after that.....eh.
I'd only accept it with Flash with it leads to the various villains he's beaten forming the Rogues.
It's a damn shame we're about to be 4 seasons into the Flash TV show and they still have given us a long Flash vs The Rogues story.
Are we on WW sequel talk already? Y'all hungry!
Anyways, I got a question for you guys. How would you guys feel if one of these movies went for an original villain? Like someone that was created specifically for the movie's story and didn't exist in a comic or a cartoon.
I know comics are a treasure trove of material, but sometimes I feel like these movies adhere too much to their sources and maybe there's some real opportunities that we're missing out on by not branching out.
I ask this because I can't think of a single superhero movie that has done this. An original creation could be pretty cool. Who knows? They could create another Harley. If I'm not misremembering she was created specifically for the Batman cartoon.
Anyways, I got a question for you guys. How would you guys feel if one of these movies went for an original villain? Like someone that was created specifically for the movie's story and didn't exist in a comic or a cartoon.
I know comics are a treasure trove of material, but sometimes I feel like these movies adhere too much to their sources and maybe there's some real opportunities that we're missing out on by not branching out.
I ask this because I can't think of a single superhero movie that has done this. An original creation could be pretty cool. Who knows? They could create another Harley. If I'm not misremembering she was created specifically for the Batman cartoon.
Schweinehund
Member
What gives you that impression? They're both about the same front and center.
I do think Black Adam being in the league would be more interesting than Billy. Billy and Superman share a similar personality while Adam is kind of an ass and would create more conflict within the team, probably butting heads with WW & Superman over leadership.
But yeah, he's one of those villains that have overshadowed their counter part, mostly because he's dropped that Golden Age quirk that Billy still holds onto in a lot of people's minds. A lot of people admire it but I think it hold's the character back and prevents him from gaining traction in the modern DCU, part of the reason I liked Shazam's new 52 book so much.
Depends on the character and their villains. I wasn't too hung up on WW because I don't think she has a great rogue's gallery. They could have replaced the villain in WW and I wouldn't have minded.
Good idea imo.
Superman 3 and 4 had original villains. No one was here for it.
The problem with original villains is that any villain concept you can come up has probably already been done in the comics. Why make my own "evil billionare," "serial killer," or "vindictive god-witch" when Lex Luthor, The Joker, and Circe already exist?
Plus, you have to factor in that 90% of comic book villains are pretty much blank slates that you can switch up if need be. Only the top tier - think Magneto, Red Skull, Luthor - are sacred cows that you would have to adhere pretty close to. No one will care too much if you change up, say, Doctor Psycho to fit the needs of a movie as long as enough of the iconography (short man with psychic powers, in this case) stays. With that in mind, might as well go with a name in the comics that hardcore fans can get excited about, and thus, help drive hype for the movie.
The problem with original villains is that any villain concept you can come up has probably already been done in the comics. Why make my own "evil billionare," "serial killer," or "vindictive god-witch" when Lex Luthor, The Joker, and Circe already exist?
Plus, you have to factor in that 90% of comic book villains are pretty much blank slates that you can switch up if need be. Only the top tier - think Magneto, Red Skull, Luthor - are sacred cows that you would have to adhere pretty close to. No one will care too much if you change up, say, Doctor Psycho to fit the needs of a movie as long as enough of the iconography (short man with psychic powers, in this case) stays. With that in mind, might as well go with a name in the comics that hardcore fans can get excited about, and thus, help drive hype for the movie.