Byakuya769
Member
I am happy to be a part of something allegedly destroying society. Though I am saddened that I missed out on Mr. Dyack's thread...
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Denis Dyack in 1up yours. NeoGAF is "hurting society," justifies having it shut down
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Alex
Member
Normally, I prefer to stick to the actual gaming discussion, rather than the industry discussion, as to me the latter is wholefully irrelevant or largely bickering due to insecurities that form with these expensive purchases.
But this is just nuts. I mean, before this incident, I felt sorry for the people involved if anything, I think the negativity surrounding the game was a fair deal overblown and this seems like it's been a very turbulent project. The internet is amazingly harsh in general if you don't have thick skin, and not everyone does.
But after this, I think the man is a few cans short of a six pack. The prior events were uncomfortable and really didn't say anything about the actual product. It was anything but constructive and reeked of insecurity, but to me that's no reason to condemn the thing.
But now, a man in his position, repeatedly making an fool of himself, now calling for a forum shut down, all because people took to his awkward bravado in a mixed manner, to put it kindly. Way to drop an elaborate temper tantrum.
Between the Diablo 3 announcement pulling me back into Diablo 2, and Tales of Vesperia coming out the same week as Too Human, I don't think this decision is at all difficult anymore, for me.
But this is just nuts. I mean, before this incident, I felt sorry for the people involved if anything, I think the negativity surrounding the game was a fair deal overblown and this seems like it's been a very turbulent project. The internet is amazingly harsh in general if you don't have thick skin, and not everyone does.
But after this, I think the man is a few cans short of a six pack. The prior events were uncomfortable and really didn't say anything about the actual product. It was anything but constructive and reeked of insecurity, but to me that's no reason to condemn the thing.
But now, a man in his position, repeatedly making an fool of himself, now calling for a forum shut down, all because people took to his awkward bravado in a mixed manner, to put it kindly. Way to drop an elaborate temper tantrum.
Between the Diablo 3 announcement pulling me back into Diablo 2, and Tales of Vesperia coming out the same week as Too Human, I don't think this decision is at all difficult anymore, for me.
BocoDragon said:
GAF isn't real game reporting of course. I didn't say that. Did Dennis imply it in the podcast? I haven't listened to it yet.
I'm not really sure how important GAF is in the grand scheme of things. Does our whinyness and trolling actually effect sales? I have a feeling it doesn't, or maybe it only works in the negative sense, since there are so many games that GAF loved and hyped that went absolutely no where.
FartOfWar said:
The Brodeo needs to take matters into its own hands and set shit straight. What are the group's thoughts on the latest from Denis Dyack? Whatever you decide, we shall obey. Let Robert Ashley's dolphin cry be your call to arms, and Ryan Scott's three-worded musings be codified as international forum posting law. Lay the cards out on the table and decide whether or not Anthony needs to fart into Mr. Dyack's mic. Special holiday episode. Too much to ask?
gray_fox224
Junior Member
.alr1ghtstart said:
really, this site is 100x more readable than say, any comment section on any game blog/official forum/game faqs type forum.
i can't believe this idea that we should be accountable for our behavior on the internet. most of us get enough accountability at work, but then dyack's job resembles my free time in that it seems to involve reading haphazardly and being a douche on the internet
oh god who cares i'm going outside
oh god who cares i'm going outside
heliosRAzi
Banned
neojubei said:
Nope. Denis was just being a douchebag again. The Star Wars kid made that video for something else and forgot the tape. His classmates got a hold of it and posted it on the internet.
And then it exploded and the Kid hid himself from the public's eyes because he felt so embarrassed.
Personally, if something like that happened, I would've embraced it. Letting stuff like that get to you can be very damaging.
JasonUresti
Member
FartOfWar said:
I'd like to see you do a write up on this at your blog, or at least give some thoughts on it in an upcoming podcast.
Most developers can churn up a respectable game, original new IP, in a year or two. Some developers churn out good or even great games in that timeframe. Too Human took FOURTEEN years to get developed. With that amount of time and manpower it should've been the second coming of Jesus (take notes 3D Realms, I haven't forgotten the dev-time on DNF) or at the very least a damn good game, the kind you buy a console for.
Somehow, Too Human's failure to impress is NeoGAF's fault?
Somehow, Too Human's failure to impress is NeoGAF's fault?
rollingstart
Banned
FartOfWar said:
I will be looking forward to that. Those long blog posts are always great to read.
Even the 1up guys had to interrupt him because they didn't know what he was talking about
Cryack was either stoned beyond belief or he was trying to explain Too Humans storyline.
This podcast reminded me of that guy outside your house in GTA4 saying all that crazy stuff. I always been convinced that he was based off a real life person, now we know who it is.
"I've been to the other side of Gaf they have imaginations the size of water towers! and they have Gifs that can bring down the entire internet!! The birds will eat your eyes!!!
Cryack was either stoned beyond belief or he was trying to explain Too Humans storyline.
This podcast reminded me of that guy outside your house in GTA4 saying all that crazy stuff. I always been convinced that he was based off a real life person, now we know who it is.
"I've been to the other side of Gaf they have imaginations the size of water towers! and they have Gifs that can bring down the entire internet!! The birds will eat your eyes!!!
Oh and another thing. I don't like the tone of that segment. They pretty much assume that GAF is a large cesspool where nothing worthy enough to influence your opinion on games is ever posted. It's good fun, but ultimately meaningless.
And yet, any game specific thread is an infinitely better source of information and criticism about videogames than the previews and reviews these sites put up. Oh whoops, that can't be right......
And yet, any game specific thread is an infinitely better source of information and criticism about videogames than the previews and reviews these sites put up. Oh whoops, that can't be right......
You know the guy we should be trolling is Hideo Kojima because he would at least turn around and put his energies into making a Metal Gear game where Snake fighting the Patriots is somehow an insane metaphor for Kojima striking back at NeoGAF. Also there would be lots of bizarre 4th wall internet board zanyness.
Iaido Sword
Banned
Grats on the appropriate tag, man. XDKittonwy said:Apparently I stopped posting on gaf for MONTHS.
Frankly if I were Denis I would be more worried about the internet clit riders who quickly jumped to "FOR" because they got to quote a "real vieo game developer!!!!11!."
Not everyone who spits venom at your game is a troll. Take criticism, rise above the shit, and take a good look at your self and your work with respect to the actual criticism that is peppered throughout the shit, and you could make a better game.
The anonymous Yes Men are no better than real ones. I hope you don't like to ally yourself with real ones too.
Not everyone who spits venom at your game is a troll. Take criticism, rise above the shit, and take a good look at your self and your work with respect to the actual criticism that is peppered throughout the shit, and you could make a better game.
The anonymous Yes Men are no better than real ones. I hope you don't like to ally yourself with real ones too.
way more
Member
Good Lord. I've never heard so much rambling and misguided passion to prove such a meaningless point.
And I've taken two philosophy classes!
I must say I like his ideas and his idea for a experiment but he starting testing for black holes from day one and forgot to test for gravity. He's got me up until he takes action with the failed experiment.
And I've taken two philosophy classes!
I must say I like his ideas and his idea for a experiment but he starting testing for black holes from day one and forgot to test for gravity. He's got me up until he takes action with the failed experiment.
If wish I knew somebody professionally educated in either psychology or rhetorics - I would love to have him/her listen to his "TH preview" and "one console future" 1up Yours podcasts and do a profile on him and his discussion methods/skills. A thread on NeoGAF can't be a discussion for a developer, but a podcast could and should be - but it rarely is when he's on.
Just finished listening, for my money, Dyack went a bit overboard. There are too many points to make, so I'll just stick to a few.
First of all, I totally agree that personal attacks should have no place here. Its juvenile, and it obviously hurts some people. And it does seem that people are ready to pounce on Too Human.
But as far as his "for/against" post catching so much fire, I don't think GAF had anything to do with that. Its all his doing. There wouldn't have been any less of a hubbub in the blogs and previews if he put that proposal forth in a blog, another forum, an interview for a website, or a tv interview. The reason his "experiment" caught so much heat, was because it made absolutely no sense. The point he was trying to make was over dramatic and silly. But he doesn't want any reciprocations to come from it, he basically doesn't want to be held responsible for what he writes on the internet.
Also, Garnett was like my voice on this episode, he took GAF way too seriously. I hope he doesn't take this as another attack, I and most others in this thread don't mean any malice. We are just trying to add "our side" of the discussion.
First of all, I totally agree that personal attacks should have no place here. Its juvenile, and it obviously hurts some people. And it does seem that people are ready to pounce on Too Human.
But as far as his "for/against" post catching so much fire, I don't think GAF had anything to do with that. Its all his doing. There wouldn't have been any less of a hubbub in the blogs and previews if he put that proposal forth in a blog, another forum, an interview for a website, or a tv interview. The reason his "experiment" caught so much heat, was because it made absolutely no sense. The point he was trying to make was over dramatic and silly. But he doesn't want any reciprocations to come from it, he basically doesn't want to be held responsible for what he writes on the internet.
Also, Garnett was like my voice on this episode, he took GAF way too seriously. I hope he doesn't take this as another attack, I and most others in this thread don't mean any malice. We are just trying to add "our side" of the discussion.
Lifeonmars?
Member
I agree on certain points, but he doesn't need to mention all of the "scientism" and all of the shit that just bogs down his argument and makes it unlistenable and sound like the ramblings of a mad man.
Winterblink
Member
What's next, anti blogs? So what, people have an opinion on what they think of Too Human from what they've seen so far? Well where's the failure in that?
1. The person's opinion based on what we've seen (see below)
2. A lack of adequate marketing of the product (not our fault)
3. A lack of proper coverage by the media (talk to your PR people, Denis)
Denis is pissed people are saying his game is going to suck. Someone clue him in that his isn't the first game this has happened to, and it won't be the last. It could be a great game, I don't know. I know that from what I've seen of it so far it's not impressing me much. And I can admit I haven't played the game, but unless he can give me a money back guarantee on the quality of the product then I'm going to rely on a few things for me to determine whether it's worth my money:
1. Reviews
2. Demo
3. Friends' opinions
(and not necessarily in that order)
If he thinks it's the next best thing, so much so that he's willing to target GAF's ability to host opinions and discussions, maybe he should "put up" by providing a money back guarantee. But he won't, so maybe he should just shut up and see if his game can sell itself.
1. The person's opinion based on what we've seen (see below)
2. A lack of adequate marketing of the product (not our fault)
3. A lack of proper coverage by the media (talk to your PR people, Denis)
Denis is pissed people are saying his game is going to suck. Someone clue him in that his isn't the first game this has happened to, and it won't be the last. It could be a great game, I don't know. I know that from what I've seen of it so far it's not impressing me much. And I can admit I haven't played the game, but unless he can give me a money back guarantee on the quality of the product then I'm going to rely on a few things for me to determine whether it's worth my money:
1. Reviews
2. Demo
3. Friends' opinions
(and not necessarily in that order)
If he thinks it's the next best thing, so much so that he's willing to target GAF's ability to host opinions and discussions, maybe he should "put up" by providing a money back guarantee. But he won't, so maybe he should just shut up and see if his game can sell itself.
Most GAFers talk a lot of trash, but when it comes down to the games... it's all about the games, at the end of the day.Grimm Fandango
Member
NeoGAF is a menace to society.
BobTheFork
Member
You were so depressed you didn't even GB :'(Kittonwy said:Apparently I stopped posting on gaf for MONTHS.
Iaido Sword
Banned
Oh snap I got to that apology part.
And I was right! In that wired thread or whatever.
There was BAD blood between SK and Crystal Dynamics.
I feel like he took Kittonwy's post out of context. He misunderstood it completely.
And I was right! In that wired thread or whatever.
There was BAD blood between SK and Crystal Dynamics.
I feel like he took Kittonwy's post out of context. He misunderstood it completely.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Even him being a developer doesnt make him automatically worth listening to as far as the industry goes. Because when it comes down to it, anyone is allowed to say what they think about a game/movie/book/etc based on what they know of it and the track record of the maker.
Dyack has set himself up for this because Too Human looks unimpressive based early (and recent) preview footage. Is GAF to blame for holding an opinion on this? :lol
Seriously, the entire industry thrives on building up hype on games throughout the preview process. If the consumer disagrees that your self-appointed 'AAA' game looks nothing close to AAA then accept the criticism and change the game, or stfu.
Dyack has set himself up for this because Too Human looks unimpressive based early (and recent) preview footage. Is GAF to blame for holding an opinion on this? :lol
Seriously, the entire industry thrives on building up hype on games throughout the preview process. If the consumer disagrees that your self-appointed 'AAA' game looks nothing close to AAA then accept the criticism and change the game, or stfu.
wait wait. then he went on to say the thread was an experiment just so he could talk about it on 1UP? :lol that's grand retconning if I have ever seen it.
So whip us into a froth then claim you poked us with a stick to see how we would react? So did he design the outcome then build the experiment, or is it a case of revisionist history?
Either options seems a bit disingenuous to the level of discourse he seems to think this place should generate.
So whip us into a froth then claim you poked us with a stick to see how we would react? So did he design the outcome then build the experiment, or is it a case of revisionist history?
Either options seems a bit disingenuous to the level of discourse he seems to think this place should generate.
MickeyKnox
Member
What an epic thread that was, needs a GAF related sequel.heliosRAzi said:
My main problem with the whole Denis thing is the inconsistency. You cannot call someone "fat", you cannot call Hillary a "bitch," but you can call someone a "fucking retard" or a "douchebag asshole" if it is a majority consensus. The one time I was banned, I told someone to fuck off. I just think that the board would be much more pleasant if personal attacks were enforced as being bannable all the time, and not just when it is convenient. And I have done a ton of personal attacks but I have always known when I could get away with it based on the topic and knowing which mods would probably show up in that thread.
Burger
Member
I've never said a bad thing about Denis, nor Too Human.
That said, this forum isn't a democracy, I should get the same treatment as Mr Dyack.
To modify a famous quote, NeoGAF is 4 wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Yeah sure douchebags here can be mean, cruel and just horrible in general, but you'll find that anywhere.
Mr Dyacks grand plan to call people out For or Against without having played his game was simply juvenile, he knew what the results would be.
If Silicon Knights want's me to be slightly interested in their game, they should do it through smart marketing, and getting gamers on their side.
Look at Ken Levine, he's a smart guy, always speaks and posts with eloquent and well thought out opinions and he listened to gamers and his team marketed their game in a smart smart way. It paid off for him.
Start befriending gamers like me by speaking intelligently. Telling me that previews are stupid because I 'won't get it' is hardly the way to get me to open my wallet.
That said, this forum isn't a democracy, I should get the same treatment as Mr Dyack.
To modify a famous quote, NeoGAF is 4 wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Yeah sure douchebags here can be mean, cruel and just horrible in general, but you'll find that anywhere.
Mr Dyacks grand plan to call people out For or Against without having played his game was simply juvenile, he knew what the results would be.
If Silicon Knights want's me to be slightly interested in their game, they should do it through smart marketing, and getting gamers on their side.
Look at Ken Levine, he's a smart guy, always speaks and posts with eloquent and well thought out opinions and he listened to gamers and his team marketed their game in a smart smart way. It paid off for him.
Start befriending gamers like me by speaking intelligently. Telling me that previews are stupid because I 'won't get it' is hardly the way to get me to open my wallet.
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