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Denis Dyack in 1up yours. NeoGAF is "hurting society," justifies having it shut down
- Thread starter Rlan
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fistfulofmetal
Banned
I kinda feel like I know less after listening to that.
GodfatherX
Member
so essentially Denis is trying to use the TOS as a shield against "flaming"
problem with that Denis is that if that loophole existed every single person in the spotlight in our culture would use it to, with your "fame" comes responsibility and acceptance, responsibility to not let your fans down, and acceptance that people will eagerly call you out on your bullshit and just because you have a GAF account doesnt excuse you from the same scrutiny that Kojima and Miyamoto would have to endure if they failed their responsibility
problem with that Denis is that if that loophole existed every single person in the spotlight in our culture would use it to, with your "fame" comes responsibility and acceptance, responsibility to not let your fans down, and acceptance that people will eagerly call you out on your bullshit and just because you have a GAF account doesnt excuse you from the same scrutiny that Kojima and Miyamoto would have to endure if they failed their responsibility
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Mario said:
:lol
And the amazing thing is most people on GAF love you Mario. So I'm not sure what's Denis' problem.
Tieno
Member
While I think that Neogaf is turning into a shithole like a lot of other forums, Dyack gives it far too much importance and takes it too serious.
Is this what they call "self-destructive"? He hurts his own game far much than videos, screenshots or anything else Too Human released so far. I'd like to see that alternative universe where Too Human was released like a normal game, without all this drama.
Is this what they call "self-destructive"? He hurts his own game far much than videos, screenshots or anything else Too Human released so far. I'd like to see that alternative universe where Too Human was released like a normal game, without all this drama.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
NullPointer
Member
(Sorry. This is long)
Denis makes a lot of good points about how forums and metacritic scores and the drama therein can lead to personal and financial repercussions.
But...
He's missing three major things in his analysis:
1. He's aiming at the wrong target.
If game companies are making business decisions based upon metacritic scores and forums, maybe the business decision makers should be the ones he talks to - not by email or text message, but face to face, with reciprocity. Somewhere his points could be made and reasonably be responded to. Tossing a giant I'm-freakin-the-mundanes spitball into a forum doesn't help his cause.
2. What is the point of a preview if not to judge a game by it's current state, it's history, and it's likely future?
It may not be fair but why do people show interest in previews? They want to know the game is coming along, that it's meeting its dates, or that it needs a lot of work so expect delays. We want to know that the killer app isn't going to drop features that we assumed were there all along, or that the lead designer didn't walk out of the job in disgust. We want to know about the tech used, and its promise down the line. We want to know if its shaping up into something we're likely to want.
And reviews are personal. You get to know the people in the 1up podcasts, value or laugh at their perspectives, and miss them when they're gone. When one of these personalities who has similar tastes says some disparaging things about a game, or great things, we're going to listen. Thats kind of the point.
How many games have been saved from mediocrity from good word of mouth? How many games have been trashed to oblivion? It works both ways, but Denis is only looking at the negatives, because it affects him, and his game.
3. He excludes 'Too Human', the game itself, from the criticism.
I don't think we'd be having this conversation if Too Human was adored universally on GAF, and people were getting banned left and right who disagreed. But it didn't work out that way. Denis or Microsoft decided to allow footage to be released, and each of us who read or saw it judged it on our own. The fact is, he lost a lot of enthusiasm from a lot of people who watched the cinematic and gameplay videos, and heard about the drop of 4 player co-op, but he also has some people, who beyond all that are still interested in giving his game a whirl. Denis seemed proud of this fact, but Earth to Denis - not all games have demos. In that case all we're left to judge a game by without putting down our hard earned cash is by reviews from personalities we may trust, or by watching gameplay videos.
Nobody has to feel an iota of guilt at making personal judgements on the media thats been released. Denis is the one with his head in the sand if he doesn't concede this one point.
He's too close to the issue, got burned, and is trying to make GAF the sacrificial lamb for all the technological problems he's been pondering. Its a straw man. And while he sounds like a smart guy, he's in past his depth and lashing out at the wrong things.
Its bullshit. I love the points he makes, but you can't make them in a vacuum. And you can't go off for an hour bitching about game reactions and keep the actual game out of it.
Denis makes a lot of good points about how forums and metacritic scores and the drama therein can lead to personal and financial repercussions.
But...
He's missing three major things in his analysis:
1. He's aiming at the wrong target.
If game companies are making business decisions based upon metacritic scores and forums, maybe the business decision makers should be the ones he talks to - not by email or text message, but face to face, with reciprocity. Somewhere his points could be made and reasonably be responded to. Tossing a giant I'm-freakin-the-mundanes spitball into a forum doesn't help his cause.
2. What is the point of a preview if not to judge a game by it's current state, it's history, and it's likely future?
It may not be fair but why do people show interest in previews? They want to know the game is coming along, that it's meeting its dates, or that it needs a lot of work so expect delays. We want to know that the killer app isn't going to drop features that we assumed were there all along, or that the lead designer didn't walk out of the job in disgust. We want to know about the tech used, and its promise down the line. We want to know if its shaping up into something we're likely to want.
And reviews are personal. You get to know the people in the 1up podcasts, value or laugh at their perspectives, and miss them when they're gone. When one of these personalities who has similar tastes says some disparaging things about a game, or great things, we're going to listen. Thats kind of the point.
How many games have been saved from mediocrity from good word of mouth? How many games have been trashed to oblivion? It works both ways, but Denis is only looking at the negatives, because it affects him, and his game.
3. He excludes 'Too Human', the game itself, from the criticism.
I don't think we'd be having this conversation if Too Human was adored universally on GAF, and people were getting banned left and right who disagreed. But it didn't work out that way. Denis or Microsoft decided to allow footage to be released, and each of us who read or saw it judged it on our own. The fact is, he lost a lot of enthusiasm from a lot of people who watched the cinematic and gameplay videos, and heard about the drop of 4 player co-op, but he also has some people, who beyond all that are still interested in giving his game a whirl. Denis seemed proud of this fact, but Earth to Denis - not all games have demos. In that case all we're left to judge a game by without putting down our hard earned cash is by reviews from personalities we may trust, or by watching gameplay videos.
Nobody has to feel an iota of guilt at making personal judgements on the media thats been released. Denis is the one with his head in the sand if he doesn't concede this one point.
He's too close to the issue, got burned, and is trying to make GAF the sacrificial lamb for all the technological problems he's been pondering. Its a straw man. And while he sounds like a smart guy, he's in past his depth and lashing out at the wrong things.
Its bullshit. I love the points he makes, but you can't make them in a vacuum. And you can't go off for an hour bitching about game reactions and keep the actual game out of it.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Shouta said:
I kind of like the skating guy in gold arming and Baldur down syndrome rave dancing.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Kittonwy said:Apparently I stopped posting on gaf for MONTHS.
But I don't remember that. I remember you were banned for a while. But did you get sad and stop posting on purpose like Denis said?
Jack Scofield
Member
I'm completely neutral on Too Human, but I think this needs to be emphasized:
In other news, John is on the show this week! Yay!
EDIT: Oh damn, I didn't realize 1UP Yours had already been released. Nevermind my comment, then.
Philip Kollar said:
In other news, John is on the show this week! Yay!
EDIT: Oh damn, I didn't realize 1UP Yours had already been released. Nevermind my comment, then.
fistfulofmetal
Banned
Well I think we can finally answer Jeff Bell's question.
What are our contributions? Destruction.
What are our contributions? Destruction.
If EA can use a bad review to delay Army of Two while Cryack bitches and moans about a PREVIEW then Too Human deserves to be released as the biggest piece of shit to ever appear on xbox 360. it deserves a place right under Yaris. Instead of saying I will use the negativity to fix what was wrong he goes on a podcast and talks about rail guns, who shot Kennedy, and whatever else I couldn't understand coming out of his obviously chemically altered mouth.
C- Warrior
Banned
Dyack makes some interesting points in the podcast.
The Faceless Master
Member
i see what you did there...Mario said:
Hypno Funk
Member
It's gotten to the point now where Dyack has hurt potential sales of Too Human, and people are being put off.
It should be the game in the limelight, not the maker, this has gone incredibly sour.
It should be the game in the limelight, not the maker, this has gone incredibly sour.
Iaido Sword
Banned
Yeah you have Dyack's PR even telling some stuff to remember.El-Suave said:
Hypno Funk said:
I wonder how his publishers must feel about all this, and I wonder if they can ammend future deals for the rest of the trilogy - silencing Dyack completely, as a trade-off for green lighting the conclusion of his project (assuming it merits the sequels via sales - which I still think it probably will).
has the too human vs. benny hill video already been posted
i'm only here to post the too human vs. benny hill video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=muQ9PoyYGdk
cheers
i'm only here to post the too human vs. benny hill video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=muQ9PoyYGdk
cheers
heliosRAzi
Banned
fistfulofmetal said:
NeoGAF: We'll fuck your shit up.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
1. LTTP
2. ZOMG GAF = 4CHAN
3.
Denis Dyack
Banned
(Today, 03:06 AM)
Reply | Quote
2. ZOMG GAF = 4CHAN
3.
Banned
(Today, 03:06 AM)
Reply | Quote
heliosRAzi
Banned
jrricky said:
The unreal engine fiasco. It needs to be updated though for current events.
Denis has been banned? LMAO...
Wait... he's not banned. He's still figuring it out.
First he was laughed at
Then his experiment or attempted Gaf coup fails
Then he was laughed at again
Then I just found out that Benny Hill stars in Too Human
And now denis is banned.
Denis: This is the worst day of my life.
Microsoft:Where do we find these people, and why does it keep happening to us?
Then his experiment or attempted Gaf coup fails
Then he was laughed at again
Then I just found out that Benny Hill stars in Too Human
And now denis is banned.
Denis: This is the worst day of my life.
Microsoft:Where do we find these people, and why does it keep happening to us?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
At every game store counter in America, a GAF poster will be there, judging and denouncing your purchases.purg3 said:
Jcgamer60 said:
Denis wants to make it so if, for example, I said something like la li lu le lo it wouldn't come out as la li lu le lo at all because we'd have string replament that ensured la li lu le lo wouldn't be interpreted as la li lu le lo. Do you really want la li lu le lo to be something that can't be said? It would be totally la li lu le lo'd up. All because someone might get hurt.
GotchaForce
Member
Im interested in what the end result of all of this will be. Will there be an announcement by a mod or a new discussion thread or whatever.
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