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Destiny |OT10| Working as Intended

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TTG

Member
You gotta understand. It's a handicap, playing at a low level, absolutely no doubt. There's no question it's easier to get your ass handed to you at level 9 than 20 or 28. But handicaps can be overcome. If nothing else, this confirms that balance questions in Destiny certainly shouldn't be centered around making low levels more competitive. Come on now. Suck it up if you want to play on a lowbie.

This is true. If you're looking for a larger sample size, I was using my alt exclusively in the crucible as soon as I made it to orbit, I mean I still haven't unlocked patrol on Earth. My k/d right now stands at 1.35, having just reached level 27 the other day. I can't pull exact numbers post Suros and Voidfang on my main, so let's just take the last 10 games: 2.81. That is still a small sample, I think the lowest number of the 10 speaks to the difference a lot more, 1.4.

So, there's a demonstrable hit, but 1.35 isn't as bleak as it sounds considering all the usual unfortunate scenarios(I very rarely flat out quit, so I'm taking lumps when my team is down 8k+ in control). However, if you looked at it when I was level 15 or so, you would find that number closer to 1.0(I would venture something like 1.15). This is all Control and Clash mostly.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Some of the most fun I've had with this game is entering crucible at a low level with my alts. Stripping all the good gear/abilities away also seems to help one "git gud" as you become wholly reliant on fundamentals.

As someone who's good at pvp and who I believe to be a hand cannon enthusiast, what is your choice between Thorn and Hawkmoon? I've been rolling Thorn for a while now and was just blessed with Hawkmoon over the weekend. The latter is already really good without upgrades, but I find the DOT shenanigans of Thorn to be tough to give up because... well, there's fun to be had with it.

Another question, do you have Fatebringer? I still haven't gotten it but would be interested to known how it compares to Hawkmoon (will be maxed) and Devil You Know (my longtime main) for PvE.
I certainly accept the title of hand cannon enthusiast :)

I literally just unlocked Mark of the Devourer and started playing with Thorn today. It's absolutely sinister. I don't think I've ever felt anything quite like the sensation when you see that someone has a certain amount of health left plus the poison and there's a 99% chance they will die, regardless of what further action you take. You can just crouch and reload and wait for them to die. It feels good. It even feels a little bit evil, which I imagine is the point. can really see what Dredgen Yor had going on in those early days in the Crucible.

It's a unique and spectacular and dangerous weapon. That said, the bias is real for me. I'll never love another weapon like I love Hawkmoon. It is simply my favorite gun I've ever held in a videogame. It does everything well and never lets me down. I love the thunder it puts in my hands, the way its shots are recognizable by ear across the map, the way it gleams when you sprint through sunlight.

They couldn't be more different and they're both great. Personal preference.

I will say this: I hope the Thorn buff is only for PvE. O_O

No Fatebringer yet. One day soon it's Hard Raid time...
 
So I was running a Normal raid with an unfamiliar team today that was on the quiet side. Not the smoothest run ever but it was alright. Only one wipe at gatekeepers and maybe 4 or 5 at Atheon. Still, I was feeling bummed about the raid gear situation.

I got Helm and Boots weeks ago on both my Titan and my Warlock. I have Exotics so all I need is chest or gauntlets for either in order to hit 30. For over 3 weeks now, running Normal and Hard, zero luck. I guess it was just bumming me out a little.

Then Atheon decided to be a pal and drop Vision of morherfucking Confluence for me. Stoked again and I'll play more actively than I have in a while this week just to level that baby up.

Technical question: should I give Truth, Hezen Vengeance or Corrective Measure upgrading priority for the raid? CM can shoot Praetorians before they leave their cave...but HV lets me nearly kill that Venus Praetorian consistently...but Truth would be great for Gatekeeper...decisions.

Edit: where the hell is the Vault in the redesigned iOS companion app?

Corrective Measure. It can do all of the above. With 100 rounds you can kill the gatekeeper before you need to reload. It's by far the best of the three imo
 

Fitts

Member
why do L30s still do the raid? for the L30 helm and vex I guess?

For me, getting Fatebringer and helping others also get to 30 are my incentives. I also still have yet to get an exotic from that one magical chest, so I'm holding out hope for the Horn or MIDA.

Besides that, it's just a fun activity... glitches and all.
 

Greenymac

Member
After throwing it away twice early on I was finally offered the bounty for Super Good Advice again. It's the last of the exotic bounties I have to clear. The question is, gaf, do I have any reason to? I hear it's not that great of a weapon to begin with and I already have several kickass heavy weapons to choose from.
Complete the bounty at your leisure...make energy from it...profit?
 

Qwell

Member
Uggg this Xyor part of the bounty could really use a match making option, even at lvl 29 this is kicking my butt and none of the solo guides are working.
 

X-Frame

Member
Not a bad Raid week for me:

Titan:
- Raid Chest

Warlock:
- Raid Boots
- Vision of Confluence

Hunter:
- Raid Boots
- Raid Chest


This is coming from 5 weeks of not 1 piece of raid gear.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Technical question: should I give Truth, Hezen Vengeance or Corrective Measure upgrading priority for the raid? CM can shoot Praetorians before they leave their cave...but HV lets me nearly kill that Venus Praetorian consistently...but Truth would be great for Gatekeeper...decisions.

Edit: where the hell is the Vault in the redesigned iOS companion app?
Easy- Corrective Measure. Truth will take too long to level and can be used to kill that Venus Praetorian without a single upgrade if you're looking for a launcher for that purpose. Corrective Measure will chew up anything you throw at it and excels at everything in the raid basically- oracle killing, Praetorians, supplicants, even DPS on the boss.

Give me a hard one!
Uggg this Xyor part of the bounty could really use a match making option, even at lvl 29 this is kicking my butt and none of the solo guides are working.
I'll help; post your PSN if you're on PS4
 

Qwell

Member
Easy- Corrective Measure. Truth will take too long to level and can be used to kill that Venus Praetorian without a single upgrade if you're looking for a launcher for that purpose. Corrective Measure will chew up anything you throw at it and excels at everything in the raid basically- oracle killing, Praetorians, supplicants, even DPS on the boss.

Give me a hard one!

I'll help; post your PSN if you're on PS4
Its Qwell and yes PS4
 

SharkJAW

Member
Today's topic: "playing Crucible on low level alts really shows you how unbalanced the PvP is in Destiny"

The hypothesis: that's bullshit

The experiment: play my very best in my first ever Rumble match on my baby Titan and see if I feel the results should be blamed on poor balance.

You gotta understand. It's a handicap, playing at a low level, absolutely no doubt. There's no question it's easier to get your ass handed to you at level 9 than 20 or 28. But handicaps can be overcome. If nothing else, this confirms that balance questions in Destiny certainly shouldn't be centered around making low levels more competitive. Come on now. Suck it up if you want to play on a lowbie.
Appreciate the effort for this, but a couple of okay matches doesn't exactly demonstrate balance. Not to mention that the fusion rifle is the only competitive weapon class at such a low level. Any low level weapon is outclassed in every single way by higher level variants, whether it be due to decreases to spread or bigger clip sizes. This wouldn't be an issue if matchmaking worked at all well (maybe there are no low level players, for all I know). Also, the existence of a game-induced handicap doesn't display issues with balances? Huh?

I've had good matches with low level alts (I've leveled up 3 alts so far), but one (or 5) good match(es) is a drop in a bucket. If you put the situation in a vacuum (players of the same skill level, one level 20, one level 10), what happens? The lower level player loses more than he wins. I guess the point I'm trying to make is if your skill has to overcome some aspect or nuance of the game, the balance in said game cannot be considered reliable.
 
MAYBE first mars mission, heroic. "Access Codes? [...] DOS is harder." Pop an access code for cabal money. kill all the yellows (leave some normal alive) then suicide. Repeat?

FUSION RIFLES FOR SALE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel sorry for everyone at work or asleep. Rage will ensue.
this helped me. http://isthegunsmithsellingrarefusionrifles.com/

Got it done in less than an hour. Who would of thought that I would be getting the most bothersome part of this bounty done on the same day :p
 

Fitts

Member
I certainly accept the title of hand cannon enthusiast :)

I literally just unlocked Mark of the Devourer and started playing with Thorn today. It's absolutely sinister. I don't think I've ever felt anything quite like the sensation when you see that someone has a certain amount of health left plus the poison and there's a 99% chance they will die, regardless of what further action you take. You can just crouch and reload and wait for them to die. It feels good. It even feels a little bit evil, which I imagine is the point. can really see what Dredgen Yor had going on in those early days in the Crucible.

It's a unique and spectacular and dangerous weapon. That said, the bias is real for me. I'll never love another weapon like I love Hawkmoon. It is simply my favorite gun I've ever held in a videogame. It does everything well and never lets me down. I love the thunder it puts in my hands, the way its shots are recognizable by ear across the map, the way it gleams when you sprint through sunlight.

They couldn't be more different and they're both great. Personal preference.

I will say this: I hope the Thorn buff is only for PvE. O_O

No Fatebringer yet. One day soon it's Hard Raid time...

Ha! That's funny... I've formed a bias for Thorn. Still, I must admit that Hawkmoon's mag size is an amazing asset when going up against a group in PvP. I've never gotten a triple down with Thorn alone and was able to do as much -- twice in fact -- within the span of only a few matches. And yes, it sounds lovely, but I still enjoy the "spitting acid" sound of Thorn more. (my favorite gunfire sound effect in the game; least favorite being Suros which collects dust in my vault)

Before release and early after launch, I wanted Hawkmoon more than any other primary. I had no initial interest in Thorn and expected it to be vaulted when I originally completed the bounty for it. For weeks now, however, it's been the only Exotic primary that I've kept on my character. That has changed with my acquisition of Hawkmoon and I'm looking forward to getting it upgraded.
 

excowboy

Member
Uggg this Xyor part of the bounty could really use a match making option, even at lvl 29 this is kicking my butt and none of the solo guides are working.

I did it solo the other day. Obviously slow and steady goes without saying but at the 3 waves/dinkle door don't be shy of retreating right back up the stairs when the wizards show up and I guess a solar RL will help.

When you get to Phogoth I just went in and cleared the adds, then hit him til he was loose. Then just hang in the cheese room - not the room immediately before you enter but the one before that with a few steps up. When the Shrieker despawns step out and clear any adds that come your way. Eventually Xyor came to me and I killed her without even realising - just saw the bounty pop up. Good luck!
 
This Strike playlist is frustrating as shit. Last Six strikes: Hellmouth, Devil's Lair, Devil's Lair, Devil's Lair, Hellmouth, Devil's Lair. The actual strike I want Winter's Run isn't even showing up. I wish you could just select the Tiger strike you want to play.

The summoning Pit's just showed up againl. What in the hell this is dumb. Ha ha, quit out of that and Devil's Lair showed up again. That's eight strikes in a row
that's been alternating between Summoning Pits and Devil's Lair. The amount of content in this game is it's biggest downfall.
 

Cømet

Banned
Okay, so clan raid stuff went well tonight as did Salvage crap (thank christ), so that just leaves flawless for the Guardian Lord trophy. Thus! I shall be looking to assemble a capable team of high levels to tackle it this week. I think I should have 2-3 spots filled with folks I already play regularly with (and are 30 or an upgrade or two away from), so will be looking for two capable, competent folks to join us and tackle this. Must be great at jump sections (seriously), able to conquer the labyrinth without fucking up (we'll get chests separately) and otherwise be capable of handling themselves in sticky situations. Titan defenders are preferred for their bubbles, but any good player welcome.

Be prepared for a few run-throughs in case of the inevitable fuckups/glitches, know HM tactics. They will be employed.


Sign up here for adventure.


EDIT: Astro you got a special place if you wanna join us :3
 

X-Frame

Member
Hawkian, when you do your first Hard Raid, let me know -- I want to do it with you as well.

Are you waiting until you hit 30 or going to try at 29?
 

DeviantBoi

Member
On the Destiny app, where do you see timed play. It was prominently displayed in the previous version, but I can't seem to find it now.
 

Varvor

Member
Crucible with gaffers is hella fun :)

10356029_10154805144205032_428790307309180603_n.jpg
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Appreciate the effort for this, but a couple of okay matches doesn't exactly demonstrate balance. Not to mention that the fusion rifle is the only competitive weapon class at such a low level. Any low level weapon is outclassed in every single way by higher level variants, whether it be due to decreases to spread or bigger clip sizes. This wouldn't be an issue if matchmaking worked at all well (maybe there are no low level players, for all I know).
I was maining scout rifle, not fusion rifle. Of course higher level weapons outclass lower level ones. Matchmaking is (at least in theory) skill-based and not tied to your level, but your combat rating.
Also, the existence of a game-induced handicap doesn't display issues with balances? Huh?
I just want to make sure I'm getting you here- your argument is that lower-level, non-unlocked characters shouldn't experience any handicap against high level characters with the best weapons in the game?
I've had good matches with low level alts (I've leveled up 3 alts so far), but one (or 5) good match(es) is a drop in a bucket. If you put the situation in a vacuum (players of the same skill level, one level 20, one level 10), what happens? The lower level player loses more than he wins. I guess the point I'm trying to make is if your skill has to overcome some aspect or nuance of the game, the balance in said game cannot be considered reliable.
And I think that is just obviously the way it has to be :p

my point is that if it were unbalanced in the way you're claiming a level 9 would stand NO chance against a level 28.
 

Cømet

Banned
Hawkian, when you do your first Hard Raid, let me know -- I want to do it with you as well.

Are you waiting until you hit 30 or going to try at 29?

Alongside this Hawkian, as promised, my soon-to-be 30 Warlock is at your aide if needed.



EDIT: Ooof! In all the excitement I forgot to mention that I got vision of confluence from the clan raid earlier! Which is funny, I thought I'd cleared Atheon on my titan. Guess I need to sort him out on HM with her too.
 

X-Frame

Member
Cømet;138127642 said:
Alongside this Hawkian, as promised, my soon-to-be 30 Warlock is at your aide if needed.

EDIT: Ooof! In all the excitement I forgot to mention that I got vision of confluence from the clan raid earlier! Which is funny, I thought I'd cleared Atheon on my titan. Guess I need to sort him out on HM with her too.

Haha, I got Vision of Confluence from Atheon as well in the same raid!

I really hope that next week's Nightfall is Solar Burn -- Vision of Confluence & Icebreaker & Hezen Vengeance .. oh my ..
 

Cømet

Banned
Haha, I got Vision of Confluence from Atheon as well in the same raid!

I really hope that next week's Nightfall is Solar Burn -- Vision of Confluence & Icebreaker & Hezen Vengeance .. oh my ..

We did good bud! :D So glad to tick it off my list, gotta level it hard now- for which I feel daft as I didn't pick up any SR telemetries this weekend :S Do it the old fashioned way I guess.

hahaha totally. Sol burn would be sweet. Total wreckage....still need Hezen Vengance and Corrective Measure :(


PS: Of course, thanks for helping :) Glad to have it ticked off the list! Always here if you need me.
 

SharkJAW

Member
I was maining scout rifle, not fusion rifle. Of course higher level weapons outclass lower level ones. Matchmaking is (at least in theory) skill-based and not tied to your level, but your combat rating.

I just want to make sure I'm getting you here- your argument is that lower-level, non-unlocked characters shouldn't experience any handicap against high level characters with the best weapons in the game?
Ideally, yes. I think normalized loadouts do a better job with balance, personally.

And I think that is just obviously the way it has to be :p

my point is that if it were unbalanced in the way you're claiming a level 9 would stand NO chance against a level 28.
My argument wasn't that it's totally unbalanced but that it could use a good bit of tweaking. A level 9 will easily lose to a level 28 more often than not, especially so, assuming both players are at the same skill level.

Thinking that a higher level player should be able to outplay another by essentially a game-given perk doesn't change the fact that it's a slight failure of balance at the end of the day.
 

TTG

Member
... I guess the point I'm trying to make is if your skill has to overcome some aspect or nuance of the game, the balance in said game cannot be considered reliable.

Fundamentally? Yes, but this game isn't trying to be Counter Strike. Overall, I would say Destiny has interesting and varied gear, weapons and abilities while keeping Crucible from being an utter zoo. It's actually quite the feat, probably the most impressive part in a game that otherwise can be describe as anything but spectacular.
 

Stillmatic

Member
Completed my first full hard raid this weekend, was heaps of fun. We struggled big time with the Gatekeepers though. We done the standard strat where you have 2 go in left for the first relic, then the relic holder and 1 other go in right portal, 2 guard the plate and 2 guard the middle conflux, then when the 2nd relic is out everyone converges in the middle.

It took us an hour and a half to get past the Gatekeepers, haha. There must be an easier way? Or is that just how hard it is with mostly 29's? We had 4 29's and 2 30's.
 

patchday

Member
darn with every new thread activity is getting slower and slower. Harder and harder to find those raid/nightfalls too. hope this game doesnt fizzle out before DLC with the onslaught of new games
 

Ganhyun

Member
Completed my first full hard raid this weekend, was heaps of fun. We struggled big time with the Gatekeepers though. We done the standard strat where you have 2 go in left for the first relic, then the relic holder and 1 other go in right portal, 2 guard the plate and 2 guard the middle conflux, then when the 2nd relic is out everyone converges in the middle.

It took us an hour and a half to get past the Gatekeepers, haha. There must be an easier way? Or is that just how hard it is with mostly 29's? We had 4 29's and 2 30's.

Some of the mobs in the hard raid are no joke. They can 1-shot 29s like its nothing.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
I think I see your point Shark. I wasn't going into it with the idea that a level 10 and a level 30 should be on equal footing; if skill is equal, I expect the 30 to win and I'm alright with that. If the level 10 has more skill he can outplay the 30 though, which is where I wanted to reassure people.
 

SharkJAW

Member
Fundamentally? Yes, but this game isn't trying to be Counter Strike. Overall, I would say Destiny has interesting and varied gear, weapons and abilities while keeping Crucible from being an utter zoo. It's actually quite the feat, probably the most impressive part in a game that otherwise can be describe as anything but spectacular.
I understand this, and I soldier through it. Just airing my grievances here. I still think a better job can be done with it. I'll admit I have a preference for normalized loadouts, explaining my issue with PvP.

I think I see your point Shark. I wasn't going into it with the idea that a level 10 and a level 30 should be on equal footing; if skill is equal, I expect the 30 to win and I'm alright with that. If the level 10 has more skill he can outplay the 30 though, which is where I wanted to reassure people.
I see yours as well. The way Destiny is set up right now, expecting some sort of ideal balance set up isn't realistic, but I still think the PvP has its moments. I still think it does an okay job with the amount of weapon variance, too. Not to mention the mobs that there would be ("A fucking level 9 pleb dropped me in two shots!" lol)
 

NastyBook

Member
Thought I was sitting at 28 with my Hunter until I switched my exotic helmets, then came the jump to 29. Taking her through the weekly. Just Icebreaker'd the shit out of that tank. Feels so fucking good. Now to get to Spongevalus. If I can survive, I might try solo'ing Nightfall tonight. Wouldn't mind getting some Ass Shards for my troubles, although either Exotic Handcannon or Knucklehead Radar would be fine.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
darn with every new thread activity is getting slower and slower. Harder and harder to find those raid/nightfalls too. hope this game doesnt fizzle out before DLC with the onslaught of new games
hee 69 posts per hour so far in OT10 versus an OT9 avg of 59.3. dat fizzle

come on man, just relax!
 

lunlunqq

Member
All 3 chatacyers stuck at lvl 29 and start to feel frustration... Not even Hawkian himself can give me advice on this one... :(
 
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