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Destiny |OT16| Enrage is here, there, everywhere...

Z

zewone

Member
Hawkian said:
I may be one of the few that prefer the random teleports, but no, it's not simpler. There are objectively more elements, making it more complex. Necessarily splitting the team into two halves also requires intense teamwork, though I would argue that the crota fight does too. Atheon is a more mechanically sound fight and the lowest-importance role is more interesting than the corresponding role in Crota. There's substantially more room for error in Atheon, however; this isn't at face value a good or bad thing, but can make the fight an order of magnitude less frustrating if lag or glitches get in the way of execution.

All that said, being the swordbearer for Crota is the most fun I've had in Destiny and I haven't gotten sick of it yet. Starting to get the impression that I should feel bad about this :-/
Click to expand...

Narmer212 said:
Random teleports have been in effect for months so let's not go back there.

Further, I don't buy that it's a more simple encounter than Crota. In a sum total, the Atheon fight "involves" more of the fireteam. There is a very solid chance you will be teleported and you will have to deal with oracles, the relic, the assholes in the portals, Time's Vengeance, cleansing in the portal, grouping under the relic shield after exiting portal, getting out of shield and safe before next teleport, etc etc.

If you aren't the swordbearer in CE, don't die and shoot Crota when you're told to do so.
Click to expand...

I'd like to start off by saying that I enjoy the Ahteon fight more than the Crota fight just for the fun factor alone and the fact it seems way less bullshit.

With that said, trying to convince me or anyone else that what's going on in Atheon is somehow complex is laughable. You kill 3 trash mobs inside and shoot inanimate objects within a certain time limit. You go outside and stand behind a protective barrier and shoot a basically inanimate object in the gut. If you're outside it's even worse. Stand on this thing and shoot 6 trash mobs until your buddies are back. Rinse and repeat.

Crota at the very least require much more precise timing (which isn't a great thing with P2P connections) and shifting to different areas of the playing field. People have assigned jobs ranging from sword, shieldbreakers and boomer patrol. Sure, they aren't all glamorous as the sword runner, but it's at least more difficult than killing trash mobs.

If you want to call one simple and the other complex I don't feel you're calling it straight.

EDIT: and the fact that defeating atheon with deaths in your fireteam is easier than crota should be an example of how little teamwork is actually needed.
 
S

Sword Of Doom

Member
LTWood12 said:
I could not agree more. The Atheon encounter is fantastic (sans glitches), and it's exhilarating for each member of the party. Regardless of who is running relic, every single person has an active role and can have a sense of accomplishment. Wish this encounter had more of that, and less "sorry i killed the knight before you used a super on him."
Click to expand...

This made me lol
 
M

Mindlog

Member
Boguester said:
Crota is kinda/sorta the inverse of Templar:

Crota's shield is completely immune to sword damage but only the sword can damage his HP bar.

Templar's shield is completely immune to all non-relic damage and only the relic can damage his shield. (Not exactly the same since relic can damage his HP bar, but you get the idea)
Click to expand...
Lame. Good to know though. Thanks.
zewone said:
Rose tinted glasses.

Before random teleports (which everyone hated) you could literally just stand on a pillar and shoot supplicants and wait for a buff.

Very little teamwork involved in Atheon. It's an even simpler encounter than Crota.
Click to expand...
I was one of the few in favor :]

I remember my first Atheon Hard Kill. Someone in here posted asking for a replacement. They told me what to do. I just had to stand on the Future pillar and kill supplicants. Hop up and down with Gjallarhorn during Time's Vengeance. Three rounds later, Vex! Felt so cheap getting a Vex as a sub lol.

I still believe the Gjllarhorn is throwing things off. Balancing against it and nerfing it are two tough options. I hope HoW finds a way to incorporate throngs of adds in a smart way. Something that makes HMGs seem like a better idea during the final encounter and not just for a flawless run.
 
P

Phaethon0017

Member
Trace said:
Swordbearer dying at 1-2 swings on Crota left, oversoul wiping the team.

Guy brings out his Ghost to leave because he's had enough of that shit.
Click to expand...

Ah. Speaking of enough shit, had the worst Deathsinger attempts ever with a friend and his "acquaintances" (LFG I guess).

I take partial blame. I left to go grab my Gjallarhorn and it ended up saving the day.
 
K

KINGofCRA5H

Member
hydruxo said:
You and me both
JEAzmwb.png
Click to expand...

Oh my god debating if I should make this my avatar
 
Z

zewone

Member
Mindlog said:
I was one of the few in favor :]

I remember my first Atheon Hard Kill. Someone in here posted asking for a replacement. They told me what to do. I just had to stand on the Future pillar and kill supplicants. Hop up and down with Gjallarhorn during Time's Vengeance. Three rounds later, Vex! Felt so cheap getting a Vex as a sub lol.
Click to expand...

Jeeze, I don't know if I can handle all the info required to defeat Atheon.
 
A

Atkison04

Member
Phaethon0017 said:
Ah. Speaking of enough shit, had the worst Deathsinger attempts ever with a friend and his "acquaintances" (LFG I guess).

I take partial blame. I left to go grab my Gjallarhorn and it ended up saving the day.
Click to expand...

You and all of your raiding adventures while I'm at work...sickening!
 
X

xplicitone

Member
Atkison04 said:
You and all of your raiding adventures while I'm at work...sickening!
Click to expand...

Haha exactly how I feel right now. I want to leave early but have heard people talking about my hours so I have to calm the waters a bit. Damn Tuesday resets.

"So you're telling me I can sleep at work all day for 8 hours and that's perfectly fine, but getting all of my work done and leaving early is not ok?"
 
D

DrDrizzay101

Member
zewone said:
Very little teamwork involved in Atheon. It's an even simpler encounter than Crota.
Click to expand...

To each his own of course but.... o_O (all in good fun of course, zew!)

Supplicant duty for the "outside team" is by far the weakest point in the design, there's just not enough to do for 3 members of a reasonably coordinated team. Bungie knew that too, but copy-pasting the Templar's detain mechanic in HM was not enough (although it's killed plenty of Guardians who were late bailing from the middle).

Also, the overall community response was definitely negative but I love random teleports. This game desperately needs more randomization elements, from bounties to enemy spawns to boss fights.
 
T

TheTylerDurden

Member
All this talk about Atheon reminds me of a time I rolled with a bunch of folks I never had before.

There was one fellow who had a really snarky attitude about the strat. We'd assemble in the middle platform and shoot atheon through the shield as per most people. He on the other hand firmly believed in standing way at the back and shooting from there.

He repeatedly said "standing in the middle is just stupid" and had that venemous tone of voice as if he knew better than all of us. He went on about how standing anywhere else reduced the chances of you getting killed by atheon (he was afraid of splash damage, a legit bug if you did it wrong)

Next round he died because he tried to jump onto the middle platform from where he was at the back, and missed. We were just leaving as time's vengance reached a second or two left, and that's when he tried to reach the middle. It was a strange move that caused him to die without any good apparent reason.

Hie explanation?

"I was blind and needed to be cleansed"
 
A

AmateurHour212

Member
zewone said:
I'd like to start off by saying that I enjoy the Ahteon fight more than the Crota fight just for the fun factor alone and the fact it seems way less bullshit.

With that said, trying to convince me or anyone else that what's going on in Atheon is somehow complex is laughable. You kill 3 trash mobs inside and shoot inanimate objects within a certain time limit. You go outside and stand behind a protective barrier and shoot a basically inanimate object in the gut. If you're outside it's even worse. Stand on this thing and shoot 6 trash mobs until your buddies are back. Rinse and repeat.

Crota at the very least require much more precise timing (which isn't a great thing with P2P connections) and shifting to different areas of the playing field. People have assigned jobs ranging from sword, shieldbreakers and boomer patrol. Sure, they aren't all glamorous as the sword runner, but it's at least more difficult than killing trash mobs.

If you want to call one simple and the other complex I don't feel you're calling it straight.

EDIT: and the fact that defeating atheon with deaths in your fireteam is easier than crota should be an example of how little teamwork is actually needed.
Click to expand...

Did you just call someone's opinion about a video game "laughable?" Yikes.

I never called either encounter complex. I called Atheon more complex and more involved in total for each member of the fireteam. I still stand by that and, in my opinion, don't really think it's even that close.
 
B

border

Member
How does the Abyss Defiant compare to the Vex Mythoclast? They seem to be pretty much the same thing (Solar Damage Auto Rifles with a medium rate of fire).
 
H

Hero_of_the_Day

Member
So how does hard Crota work as far as chests/rewards? Are they completely separate from normal like VoG where you can do both normal and hard each week for a different set of rewards?
 
Z

zewone

Member
Boguester said:
To each his own of course but.... o_O (all in good fun of course, zew!)

Supplicant duty for the "outside team" is by far the weakest point in the design, there's just not enough to do for 3 members of a reasonably coordinated team. Bungie knew that too, but copy-pasting the Templar's detain mechanic in HM was not enough (although it's killed plenty of Guardians who were late bailing from the middle).

Also, the overall community response was definitely negative but I love random teleports. This game desperately needs more randomization elements, from bounties to enemy spawns to boss fights.
Click to expand...

Random teleports don't bother me. I think it actually made this ridiculously simple fight, somewhat of a challenge.

The one fact that bothered me about random teleports was that Bungie tried to call it a "bug" instead of just straight up saying "You guys made our Hard raid look like a joke, so we're going to add a touch of artificial difficulty post-patch".
 
T

TheTylerDurden

Member
zewone said:
Random teleports don't bother me. I think it actually made this ridiculously simple fight, somewhat of a challenge.

The one fact that bothered me about random teleports was that Bungie tried to call it a "bug" instead of just straight up saying "You guys made our Hard raid look like a joke, so we're going to add a touch of artificial difficult post-patch".
Click to expand...


Remind me tonight to tell you something about the random teleport. I'm sure I will forget.
 
X

xplicitone

Member
Boguester said:
To each his own of course but.... o_O (all in good fun of course, zew!)

Supplicant duty for the "outside team" is by far the weakest point in the design, there's just not enough to do for 3 members of a reasonably coordinated team. Bungie knew that too, but copy-pasting the Templar's detain mechanic in HM was not enough (although it's killed plenty of Guardians who were late bailing from the middle).

Also, the overall community response was definitely negative but I love random teleports. This game desperately needs more randomization elements, from bounties to enemy spawns to boss fights.
Click to expand...

hahahaha that reminds me of the good ol' days of first attempting Atheon. Had 3 IRL buddies and one of them had a couple buddies (married couple) that we rolled weekly raids with. The wife ALWAYS died to supplicants and we would always be like wtf?! As a L30 even. And the Husband always died as relic holder in the left "mars" side. Good times, good times. Or is it Lost in (good) time?
 
A

Atkison04

Member
xplicitone said:
Haha exactly how I feel right now. I want to leave early but have heard people talking about my hours so I have to calm the waters a bit. Damn Tuesday resets.

"So you're telling me I can sleep at work all day for 8 hours and that's perfectly fine, but getting all of my work done and leaving early is not ok?"
Click to expand...

I just hope my crew finishes crota more efficiently this time. I've spent over 8 hours on 2 completes! And yes, part of that was with grandmaster Phaethon up there running sword!
 
Z

zewone

Member
Narmer212 said:
Did you just call someone's opinion about a video game "laughable?" Yikes.

I never called either encounter complex. I called Atheon more complex and more involved in total for each member of the fireteam. I still stand by that and, in my opinion, don't really think it's even that close.
Click to expand...

I meant no offense. If any was given, I apologize.

I just find it funny that people hold the Ahteon fight as some grandiose encounter when it's just as simple and even more so in my opinion than Crota, which everyone loves to crap on the design.
 
X

xplicitone

Member
Atkison04 said:
I just hope my crew finishes crota more efficiently this time. I've spent over 8 hours on 2 completes! And yes, part of that was with grandmaster Phaethon up there running sword!
Click to expand...

hahaha I know exactly how that is. First day I went with 3 different groups, all disbanded after anywhere between 1.5-2.5 hours each. Finally got him down the 2nd day after some rest. 2nd and 3rd kills last week took about 3 hours and 2 hours respectively. About a good 13 hours on Crota total. I think this week should go smoother will all the different strats now: Bubble distraction, ogre room distraction, ogre room in general, titans blinding boomers, etc.
 
C

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
zewone said:
I'd like to start off by saying that I enjoy the Ahteon fight more than the Crota fight just for the fun factor alone and the fact it seems way less bullshit.

With that said, trying to convince me or anyone else that what's going on in Atheon is somehow complex is laughable. You kill 3 trash mobs inside and shoot inanimate objects within a certain time limit. You go outside and stand behind a protective barrier and shoot a basically inanimate object in the gut. If you're outside it's even worse. Stand on this thing and shoot 6 trash mobs until your buddies are back. Rinse and repeat.

Crota at the very least require much more precise timing (which isn't a great thing with P2P connections) and shifting to different areas of the playing field. People have assigned jobs ranging from sword, shieldbreakers and boomer patrol. Sure, they aren't all glamorous as the sword runner, but it's at least more difficult than killing trash mobs.

If you want to call one simple and the other complex I don't feel you're calling it straight.

EDIT: and the fact that defeating atheon with deaths in your fireteam is easier than crota should be an example of how little teamwork is actually needed.
Click to expand...

Come on bro, this analysis is hardly fair. Here's what the crota fight boils down to for me if I'm on sniper duty: my job is to shoot knights in the head and hide from the ogre. That's it. If I am on shield duty, my job is to snipe a swordbearer in the head once or twice, then fire 2 rockets whenever the our sword guy says. I don't even have to think about when to fire - someone else will tell me. Then I run and hide from ogre. The only one that is doing anything remotely complex in crota is the sword bearer. This is exactly why I don't like the crota fight - it's way, way too overly simplistic.
 
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