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Destiny |OT16| Enrage is here, there, everywhere...

A

AmateurHour212

Member
zewone said:
If 3 people die in Crotas it's basically an auto-wipe as well. I don't see how that's team work.

Cleansing someone in the portals should just be someone's job. It's equivalent to taking down Crota's shields. If you miss a shield break attempt or take too long, it can throw off the timing for the spawns of Ogres and Swordbearer or get you close to Enrage. Any of those can stop you from clearing.
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It can't be someone's job because that person isn't guaranteed to be teleported into the portal in order to do said job.
 
C

Captain Smirk

Member
Put in the Atheon > Crota camp

The Crota fight is all about survival and not overkilling the enemies...You kill the 2 boomer knights, well here's a wizard...oh you got a couple of extra hits on Crota, well here's a swordless enrage, even don't kill the major knights, we need the orbs.

Atheon is way more fun without restrictions
 
D

DrDrizzay101

Member
rodiard said:
Boo. Hiss.

I feel like I'm the only person that doesn't like this boss.
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HM Templar is okay I guess... :) (disclaimer: for comedic purposes only)

yge7P6.gif
 
Z

zewone

Member
Narmer212 said:
It can't be someone's job because that person isn't guaranteed to be teleported into the portal in order to do said job.
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It's the job of the person who decides to pick up the relic. Everyone should be aware of their duty as relic holder in the portals. Kill mobs, cleanse the two guys.
 
V

void666

Banned
So, any gorgon CPs?

My nightfalls didn't turn out so bad. Plan C (sharded), skullfort (usefull for hard crota) and a LDR void.
 
G

GuitarAtomik

Member
PrivateWHudson said:
It was a bug. It was supposed to work just like the detain shields on the Templar. Random.
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I know that's what they officially called it, but I have my serious doubts about this one considering how long it took for them to address it. Especially since their philosophy for patching it was completely counter to their philosophy prior to release.
 
I

Izuna

Banned
The Brian Cheese

Please call it the Brian Cheese, we want it to catch one (because this guy had 200 regular ammo synths on his person).

Instead of using a Titan Bubble on the mid-strat, you can get some to be behind the tower (jumping over a small ledge) and shoot the wall. The boomers will never care. Also he should only not shoot while we are fighting Swordbearer.
 
A

AmateurHour212

Member
zewone said:
It's the job of the person who decides to pick up the relic. Everyone should be aware of their duty as relic holder in the portals. Kill mobs, cleanse the two guys.
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Agreed. I was just saying that, unlike Crota's more well-defined roles (ie: you do this and you go here for the duration of the fight no matter what), a larger number of the group has to be able to run multiple roles. In Crota, you can get away with not having any clue on how to run the sword. This is at least less the case in Atheon.

I guess, for me, the unknown of who will be teleported makes it less mechanical.
 
P

PrivateWHudson

Member
GuitarAtomik said:
I know that's what they officially called it, but I have my serious doubts about this one considering how long it took for them to address it. Especially since their philosophy for patching it was completely counter to their philosophy prior to release.
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What was their philosophy prior to patching it? I remember everyone complaining how buggy it was if you didn't stand still against the wall, or if you jumped to high and he randomly teleported. I would guess that there was a small zone that was outside of the map (like the back of the swordbearer room at the bridge was) that took you off of the teleport radar. We were accidentally cheesing it.
 
Z

zewone

Member
Narmer212 said:
Agreed. I was just saying that, unlike Crota's more well-defined roles (ie: you do this and you go here for the duration of the fight no matter what), a larger number of the group has to be able to run multiple roles. In Crota, you can get away with not having any clue on how to run the sword. This is at least less the case in Atheon.

I guess, for me, the unknown of who will be teleported makes it less mechanical.
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Yes, the randomness of the members teleported add diversity (having to know multiple duties), but I don't think think that makes it anymore complex.

I actually do hope that they force a random person to run the sword with a patch in Crota's End.

This will cause more wipes for PUGs.
 
I

illiniguy05

Member
T

ToVenusAndBack

Member
Actually found the nightfall to not be as bad as I was expecting. Saw Gjallerhorn pop up as a reward at the end....but for one of the other guys :( I got Plan C...
 
Jinjo

Jinjo

Member
Is the Crux not limited to the weekly loot drops? Since I see some people mention they ran Crota 10+ times without getting a Crux. Isn't the maximum possible chances you could have had by now 6?
 
T

Trace

Banned
KxoZz said:
From what I've seen of necrochasm, it looks really bad...
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I don't understand why they would make the worst class of weapon in the game into an exotic. I'd rather have a pulse rifle or something if they wanted to make a crappy weapon.
 
EL CUCO

EL CUCO

Member
I just want to know if the Necrogasm is any good for the Thralls in the Abyss.

Anybody taken it out for a spin in there yet?
 
H

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Boguester said:
Hypothetically: using a LAN connection to ensure no latency, compare 5 Lv31s and 1 Lv32 with 331 max attack on HM Crota with 5 Lv28s and 1 Lv29 with 300 attack on HM Atheon. Or even worse, compare 5 Lv30s + 1 Lv33 on Crota vs. 5 Lv27s + 1 Lv30 on VoG. The 30 wants to grab the relic to better help clear adds, but those 27s are going to struggle on Oracles, especially if VoG weapon/armor perks were anywhere near as bad as CE ones. How many heavy synths would those teams go through. :p
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...hmm. I'm not sure I considered any of this or that I should. I was considering the encounter from the perspective of a group as adequately prepared as possible and in current states; a full group of 30s for Atheon and a full group of 32s for Crota, with decent weapon loadouts.

When level 33 is available, increased damage-per-round will obviously yield a massive increase in room for error, and at that point it won't be so stark a difference in my mind (although the oversoul still nonetheless result in much greater risk on death).

Have people forgotten what it was like being under-leveled in HM VoG? #Forever29 was a huge Destiny meme mainly because of the poor loot tables but also because of how many groups struggled with even 1 or 2 non-30s.
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I certainly haven't; I didn't hit 30 before TDB released. But now that you mention it, my experience with my group at 4 30s, 2 29s did present itself with more room for error than the six-32s HM Crota fight.
Lag is unavoidable for any online game, it's just a question of degree. It's so important to acknowledge that fact in the encounter design itself, especially with the lack of dedicated servers in Destiny and players from all around the world joining up. I would consider this not only good, but essential.

I mean how many countries are represented in this community here? It really, really bums me out that I feel like the only real "requirement" for a Crota team is no red bars (disclaimer: connection bars are not always reliable and not anyone's fault).
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Yeah, it's a balance. I don't disagree with you to any extent here. Not easy to design around, and an unfortunate reality.

I would posit that accommodating lag by means of design will inherently make an encounter easier. I may not be using my imagination enough but I'm struggling to see how this could not be the case.

Not the first time I've "gotten in trouble" for this, so to speak, and I certainly understand where people are coming from with this sentiment. Just remember that my posts only reflect the feelings of <<<---- that jerk over there (edit: long post is long, jerk is ^^^ and <<<), same as anyone else. The Crota design does seriously bother me but I am in no way suggesting it should be viewed the same by anyone else.

I've been advocating from the beginning that as many people as possible should run the sword. It's an absolute blast, easily one of the most fun things to do in Destiny. Your sword school is awesome for this! ...... But that's also the exact reason I dislike it so much: the disparity between teammates. Fun for one at the expense (imo) of everyone else since it's precisely the magnitude of responsibility that makes it so exciting. Few if any people (outside Gaf) are willing to keep wiping HM runs for new assassins to learn the tricks of the trade at this point, considering how many runs are already ruined by lag+glitches.
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Yeah, no need for you to be gettin' in trouble or anything. You just feel a lot more strongly about it, and I hope it doesn't discourage anyone (especially people interested in learning to run the sword).

I think groups that are both competent and experienced, and share a concern about the disparity in teammates' responsibilities should seriously consider just taking turns with the sword, letting someone different run it each time, especially on Normal which is a total blast when done this way IMO. Basically the same approach as I utilize in sword school, but without the school (everyone already knowing what to do, and in this case just adding in the shared responsibility as a challenge). When Hard is a bit more rote, and especially when the Level 33 Genesis occurs, it'll be viable there as well. This is not to excuse the design of the fight one iota; it's obviously designed to encourage groups to pick one person to take up the sword. But in the vein of fun (the axis around which every play session I sit down for revolves), I felt it worth mentioning.

There's a bit of an elided point here that might be coloring my view of the encounter as well: not everyone wants to be the one to hold the Relic or the one to bear the sword, and to some extent, it's a positive or even crucial thing to accommodate these players in some way. It's not even necessarily a matter of skill; some players simply don't enjoy the experience of being an individual lynchpin upon which the success of the group hinges completely
on the other hand I FUCKING LOVE IT :X
. That's not to say that every role you might get assigned is, by nature, equally fun. But to some extent, there is merit in design that requires "lead" and "supporting" roles.

Which means these people are locked out of the most exciting part of the highest level PvE content until the next expansion releases and makes people less inclined to bother with older content anyway. This is the part that troubles me the most. The fact that HM CE is higher than the level cap tells us everything we need to know about which encounters are more mechanically complex.
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Well, while I don't think people are necessarily locked out, I think your final sentence there is totally accurate. The Crota fight is much simpler, and at present relies on artificial difficulty to reduce its margins of error until they are razor thin. Since the fight is timing-based, this does have the net effect of what I do personally believe to be a very difficult encounter (I know you don't agree with this), but it's the least imaginative way possible to construct one, and its difficulty has a shelf-life tied to a new product release, which is just silly and makes even less in-game sense than most of its aspects.
 
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