Destiny - Review Thread

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House of Wolves is the second confirmed DLC for Destiny.[1] It will involve hunting the Fallen members of the House of Wolves who have betrayed the Queen of the Reef.[2][3][4]
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NullPointer said:
Yep, that's what my gut (and/or ass) tells me.

Sometime before the delay they realized they needed to make cuts for launch and shifted priorities big time. Somewhere along the line whatever story thread they originally had weaving the day-one release together just fell to pieces entirely - one casualty among many I'd assume.

Again, just a gut thing, and possibly a fever dream, but there is a smell to this release that's hard to miss.
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It can be confirmed the Grimoire Cards website was a last-minute thing so...yeah.

BigDug13 said:
I can't wait to read the reactions to the DLC content.
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Tell me about it. >_>
 
His complaints are all valid...but I'm still having a lot of fun playing it. With that being said, I haven't got to the point of doing raids/Nightfalls to farm legendaries and exotics. I honestly don't know if I want to do them if there's a chance of getting absolutely nothing out of it :/
 
BigDug13 said:
I can't wait to read the reactions to the DLC content.
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I'm extremely curious as well. I'm calling it: Either the content is going to be fantastic and people will decry it as the reason the base game was so flawed, or it's going to be more of the base game and people will decry it for the same reason they're not feeling the original product.

Or, far-reaching idea, perhaps the game will end up having some legs for a lot of people and it might actually grow stronger post-launch. After all, Diablo 3 somehow managed to climb out of the pit it had dug at release.

Or maybe there won't be much fanfare at all, and the community will have moved on to CoD: Ghosts and the other fall releases.
 
Danomeon said:
I'm extremely curious as well. I'm calling it: Either the content is going to be fantastic and people will decry it as the reason the base game was so flawed, or it's going to be more of the base game and people will decry it for the same reason they're not feeling the original product.

Or, far-reaching idea, perhaps the game will end up having some legs for a lot of people and it might actually grow stronger post-launch. After all, Diablo 3 somehow managed to climb out of the pit it had dug at release.

Or maybe there won't be much fanfare at all, and the community will have moved on to CoD: Ghosts and the other fall releases.
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Depends how sincerely they take the criticism. I could see the DLC going either way quality wise, but if they don't take some steps to address the issues with the rest of the game, it won't really do much to improve the game's image.
 
As someone who took four days of from work to play Destiny, I fully agree with the Angry Joe review.

I have done a shit ton of pointless grinding, that I would not tolerate in any other game.

Somehow the great PVP, music and art make me ignore the obvious flaws in the game.
 
Oh yeah, and what the hell happened to those cutscenes that were in the story trailer they released a while back? Those made it seem as if there was more story in the game than we got...
 
Poodlestrike said:
But we never knew about the loot game before launch, and it's really not that similar to Diablo, especially post Loot 2.0 patch. It's a lot less varied and the only (decent) way to get end-game loot is to buy it, so the whole psychological loop is broken.
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It's the same as Diablo' was for 2 years, if there is a problem with loot frequency, I'm sure Bungie can fix it in a patch, stop comparing a 2 year old game in its current stage to a game that's only been out for 2 weeks
 
devilsadvocat said:
It's the same as Diablo' was for 2 years, if there is a problem with loot frequency, I'm sure Bungie can fix it in a patch, stop comparing a 2 year old game in its current stage to a game that's only been out for 2 weeks
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You'll note I said "especially." It's not terribly similar to Diablo 3 pre-patch, either, since most of the top-tier loot can only be obtained by buying it, and you literally need that loot to access the top-tier content. Diablo 3 only got tedious in Inferno, up until then it was fine.

EDIT: Plus, again, the loot variety is also lacking in comparison.
 
Tomeru said:
Long enough to dislike Call of Duty's way of things, they take away using your brain in favor of reflexes. Not entirely, mind you, but the focus is on fast reflexes. I love it in Quake 3 to a degree, but not in CoD. Yes, a sniper will one shot you from a distance. I don't see the problem here. Except from the 2 maps with vehicles, every map is loaded with chalk points for maximum carnage and enough flanking opportunities to make you think before you shoot, but also be ready with your finger trigger. There are many features missing, but the core gameplay is amazing.
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Lets not kid ourselves here. FPS arent' puzzle games, you're never going to use your "brain" in that capacity. FPS is all about reflexes, your twitch ability. If they at least made the movement fluid in this game i could deal with it.

The way it is makes me feel like my movement is not being translated to screen properly in the manner in which i triggered the inputs is horribly frustrating to me.
 
Ont said:
As someone who took four days of from work to play Destiny, I fully agree with the Angry Joe review.

I have done a shit ton of pointless grinding, that I would not tolerate in any other game.

Somehow the great PVP, music and art make me ignore the obvious flaws in the game.
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Well . . . I think those are the things that really made the original Halo so popular, so I can understand why a lot of people are loving various aspects of the game.
 
Any chance Yahtzee will do one on this game? I know he typically doesnt touch multiplayer games but i feel he would have plenty material for a review.
 
devilsadvocat said:
It's the same as Diablo' was for 2 years, if there is a problem with loot frequency, I'm sure Bungie can fix it in a patch, stop comparing a 2 year old game in its current stage to a game that's only been out for 2 weeks
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So after seeing Blizzard take their lumps, watching Blizzard fix their loot system 7 months before your game comes out, Bungie lets their loot system ride and we are supposed to excuse it just because they didn't take notes on what they needed to do? We didn't excuse Blizzard for what they tried to do on D3 release, and Bungie now had the benefit of seeing how NOT to do a loot system first hand. Yet they did it anyway and we just let them off? Is that what we do?

So are all loot games supposed to get it completely wrong for 2 years and we just patiently wait with nary a peep of protest while they eventually fix it?

Blizzard screwing up is not an excuse for other companies to do it too.
 
ZehDon said:
For me, this is the game's single biggest misstep - even above the legendary engram catastrophe. It's evident Bungie have zero experience in designing around this type of gameplay system. Level 5 opponents drop the same gear with the same frequency as the level 24 opponents... so why bother with level 24 opponents? The player who went AFK and ended up 0-35 in The Crucible gets the same chance at the same gear as the player who went 35-0 in the same game... so why bother playing? In Strikes, Bosses don't drop loot... so why are they in the game?

Players grinding the treasure cave in the Cosmodrome have a better chance at getting good drops, than the co-ordinated players in the hardest Strike, or the best Crucible player in the world. It's broken logic. And combined with the legendary engram debacle, it doesn't take long before the loot system feels unrewarding and cheap. Considering the competition in the "loot game" category, it's almost unforgivable that Destiny should launch like this. Of course, it's not until you hit 20 and start loot hunting that it becomes an issue.
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Basically how I feel. I get nothing for consistently carrying people in strikes, being the last guardian, having a decent k/d. Then the people who were idiots hanging back in the doorway on Phogoth get gear and I'm suck with zilch. Kind of frustrating to say the least.
 
BigDug13 said:
So after seeing Blizzard take their lumps, watching Blizzard fix their loot system 7 months before your game comes out, Bungie lets their loot system ride and we are supposed to excuse it just because they didn't take notes on what they needed to do? We didn't excuse Blizzard for what they tried to do on D3 release, and Bungie now had the benefit of seeing how NOT to do a loot system first hand. Yet they did it anyway and we just let them off? Is that what we do?

So are all loot games supposed to get it completely wrong for 2 years and we just patiently wait with nary a peep of protest while they eventually fix it?
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Using the same logic, EA gets a pass on the simcity launch because of Diablo 3, apparently.

Instead of saying EA should have known there would be problem.

That's why I don't get the 'but diablo 3' defense. It doesn't do much to help Bungie, it further damns them.
 
Patroclos said:
I'm laughing at a world where Angry Joe is suddenly the hero we need on GAF.
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antitrop said:
It's true, probably the worst thing about Joe's review is that he makes far too many assumptions about the inner workings of Bungie and Activision. He does that a lot with other games, and it almost always comes off as cheap pandering to forum conspiracy theorists and an excuse to use his little character.
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It's not surprising to see a bunch of "JOE NAILED IT" comments from posters in here, given that Angry Joe is perfect confirmation bias for them. He appeals to the people who actually believe things such as a certain game selling well is "bad for the industry." He appeals to the people like to reduce developers and publishers to cartoon-character, mask-wearing "bad guys." He appeals to the people who have called for individuals to be fired for making an entertainment product they don't like. He appeals to the people who think negative opinions are always more truthful then positive ones, or that positive opinions equal shilling.

He also appeals to people who think wife-beating jokes are HILARIOUS! Look! This guy a page back even thought this was GIF-worthy!

Totally nailed it, guys.
 
Interficium said:
It's not surprising to see a bunch of "JOE NAILED IT" comments from posters in here, given that Angry Joe is perfect confirmation bias for them. He appeals to the people who actually believe things such as a certain game selling well is "bad for the industry." He appeals to the people like to reduce developers and publishers to cartoon-character, mask-wearing "bad guys." He appeals to the people who have called for individuals to be fired for making an entertainment product they don't like. He appeals to the people who think negative opinions are always more truthful then positive ones, or that positive opinions equal shilling.

He also appeals to people who think battered woman jokes are HILARIOUS! Look! This guy a page back even thought this was GIF-worthy!

Totally nailed it, guys.
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You also notice all the detractors can't even debate any of the points.

Character assassination all the way. The only way.

All the while only responding to people that agree with you in some way. But confirmation bias right?
 
Interficium said:
It's not surprising to see a bunch of "JOE NAILED IT" comments from posters in here, given that Angry Joe is perfect confirmation bias for them. He appeals to the people who actually believe things such as a certain game selling well is "bad for the industry." He appeals to the people like to reduce developers and publishers to cartoon-character, mask-wearing "bad guys." He appeals to the people who have called for individuals to be fired for making an entertainment product they don't like. He appeals to the people who think negative opinions are always more truthful then positive ones, or that positive opinions equal shilling.

He also appeals to people who think wife-beating jokes are HILARIOUS! Look! This guy a page back even thought this was GIF-worthy!

Totally nailed it, guys.
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So... is he wrong?
 
I thought NeoGAF (generally) always liked Angry Joe? I vaguely remember a thread and when he got his account approved.

(I'm not really a big Angry Joe fan because I don't like excessive cursing or yelling)
 
Interficium said:
It's not surprising to see a bunch of "JOE NAILED IT" comments from posters in here, given that Angry Joe is perfect confirmation bias for them. He appeals to the people who actually believe things such as a certain game selling well is "bad for the industry." He appeals to the people like to reduce developers and publishers to cartoon-character, mask-wearing "bad guys." He appeals to the people who have called for individuals to be fired for making an entertainment product they don't like. He appeals to the people who think negative opinions are always more truthful then positive ones, or that positive opinions equal shilling.

He also appeals to people who think wife-beating jokes are HILARIOUS! Look! This guy a page back even thought this was GIF-worthy!

Totally nailed it, guys.
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I like how you talk like you know everything about everyone here and who he appeals to, lol. Relax, I just felt he vented the same frustrations I had in a funny manner. Now what happened with the inner workings and politics of the game studios i don't care or give a shit about, but Bungie is WAY WAY better then what they did and the Marathon/HALO games are proof of that.

I think what would be better for you to do is refute what AJ had to say since he only said the things he said to appeal to certain groups of people, as you put it.
 
Interficium said:
It's not surprising to see a bunch of "JOE NAILED IT" comments from posters in here, given that Angry Joe is perfect confirmation bias for them. He appeals to the people who actually believe things such as a certain game selling well is "bad for the industry." He appeals to the people like to reduce developers and publishers to cartoon-character, mask-wearing "bad guys." He appeals to the people who have called for individuals to be fired for making an entertainment product they don't like. He appeals to the people who think negative opinions are always more truthful then positive ones, or that positive opinions equal shilling.

He also appeals to people who think wife-beating jokes are HILARIOUS! Look! This guy a page back even thought this was GIF-worthy!

Totally nailed it, guys.
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Or I liked his video because I thought he was spot-on about what the game does wrong and right in every respect?

Or I understand the inherent exaggeration and hyperbole in his style, which are totally valid means of expression, especially in the context of a review that is intended to be entertaining as much as informative?

Or I'm capable of finding his criticism of the game valid while not necessarily agreeing with his assumptions on why things turned out the way they did?

Also, a joke about anything can be funny. I grew up in an abusive household and I see nothing wrong with abuse humor.
 
Interficium said:
It's not surprising to see a bunch of "JOE NAILED IT" comments from posters in here, given that Angry Joe is perfect confirmation bias for them. He appeals to the people who actually believe things such as a certain game selling well is "bad for the industry." He appeals to the people like to reduce developers and publishers to cartoon-character, mask-wearing "bad guys." He appeals to the people who have called for individuals to be fired for making an entertainment product they don't like. He appeals to the people who think negative opinions are always more truthful then positive ones, or that positive opinions equal shilling.

He also appeals to people who think wife-beating jokes are HILARIOUS! Look! This guy a page back even thought this was GIF-worthy!

Totally nailed it, guys.
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So, have you got an actual counter-point to his review, or are just going to make sweeping generalisations and judgements of people who played the game and agreed with his review? What are you trying to accomplish?
 
Interficium said:
He appeals to the people who actually believe things such as a certain game selling well is "bad for the industry." He appeals to the people like to reduce developers and publishers to cartoon-character, mask-wearing "bad guys." He appeals to the people who have called for individuals to be fired for making an entertainment product they don't like. He appeals to the people who think negative opinions are always more truthful then positive ones, or that positive opinions equal shilling.

He also appeals to people who think wife-beating jokes are HILARIOUS! Look! This guy a page back even thought this was GIF-worthy!

Totally nailed it, guys.
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I don't believe any of those things, and I agreed with a good deal of the points he made in the review itself. I don't see how "Joe Nailed it!" comments are indicative of people believing everything you listed above. Some might just agree with the reasons he liked/disliked the game.
 
Interficium said:
He appeals to the people who think negative opinions are always more truthful then positive ones, or that positive opinions equal shilling.
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What's with the sweeping generalizations? Why is your post constructed entirely around the argument that anyone who likes the review or Joe's videos is an idiot, and not the content of the review itself?
 
Interficium said:
It's not surprising to see a bunch of "JOE NAILED IT" comments from posters in here, given that Angry Joe is perfect confirmation bias for them. He appeals to the people who actually believe things such as a certain game selling well is "bad for the industry." He appeals to the people like to reduce developers and publishers to cartoon-character, mask-wearing "bad guys." He appeals to the people who have called for individuals to be fired for making an entertainment product they don't like. He appeals to the people who think negative opinions are always more truthful then positive ones, or that positive opinions equal shilling.

He also appeals to people who think wife-beating jokes are HILARIOUS! Look! This guy a page back even thought this was GIF-worthy!

Totally nailed it, guys.
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I dunno. I thought his points about the broken loot system seemed pretty solid, and they echoed some of the comments folks have made in the OT. Also, I'm not sure why it's some sort of conspiracy theory to think that maybe stuff was cut from the game when they advertise DLC at launch and feature cut-scenes that appear only to pave the way for DLC storylines.

But by all means, let's disregard what he's saying because he adopts an over-the-top satirical means of stating his opinion.

Confirmation bias indeed.
 
Don't know about anyone else but I totes need confirmation bias about getting more loot from a cave of lowbies than at the end of a great strike run.
 
Interficium said:
It's not surprising to see a bunch of "JOE NAILED IT" comments from posters in here, given that Angry Joe is perfect confirmation bias for them. He appeals to the people who actually believe things such as a certain game selling well is "bad for the industry." He appeals to the people like to reduce developers and publishers to cartoon-character, mask-wearing "bad guys." He appeals to the people who have called for individuals to be fired for making an entertainment product they don't like. He appeals to the people who think negative opinions are always more truthful then positive ones, or that positive opinions equal shilling.

He also appeals to people who think wife-beating jokes are HILARIOUS! Look! This guy a page back even thought this was GIF-worthy!

Totally nailed it, guys.
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Sorry, but Joe's criticisms are completely valid. And guess what? If Activision did cripple the game to sell more DLC then that's something that's definitely bad for the industry. It's bullshit that shouldn't be rewarded.
 
Finally completed the last mission and watched the angry joe review and read about most of the complaints and it's saddens me how disconnected I am to most gamers. For the record, I played the game in hard mode and 100% solo.

Destiny is one of the best FPS I ever played, the gunplay, the mechanics, the level design, the ennemies, the IA, the weapons, the flow, it's amazing and I can't think of another game who challenged and entertained me more than Destiny, it's a great achievement because I'm very jaded and find a lot of top rated game very boring and that's why I don't trust reviews. The reviews for this game are disapointing again because they don't talk about the game I played, they just talk about marketing, story, end game and DLC. All those things I don't care about and I think about them as just bonus. The lack of story and cutscenes is even a positive in destiny because I was focused on the game and my 14h playtime is really playtime, wich is very good for a solo FPS campaign.

English is not my first language so I can't really type a long post who exposes my feelings with strong arguments but I would just say that Destiny is a top tier fps and everyone who just care about challenging gameplay and good gamedesign should play this game. It's right up there with the Halo games, RE4 or Wanquish and even made me remember of Rocket Arena 3.

There were only two instances where the game was bad
the fight with the sword and the fight in an optional story mission against a big cyclop mech
Every other encounters were fresh and entertaining.

Now I need to do the extra missions, try the pvp and do some coop. Even if those are bad, I wouldn't forget about the amazing time I spend with the campaign.
 
I decided on passing on Destiny after the initial fan reactions and I watched the Angry Joe review just. The AJ criticisms seem to be a great encapsulation of all the frustrations I've read about Destiny thus far -- while the production values like graphics, art direction and music, as well as the core mechanics of the game like controls and shooting are sound, the narrative is very weak and the systems/loot/level design is similarly weak as well.

I'm just surprised that a game that has such production values can get basic MMO systems like loot and level design this poorly. Then again, when someone like Luke Smith can become a design lead on Destiny for Bungie, I'm really not.
 
tokyobanana said:
I decided on passing on Destiny after the initial fan reactions and I watched the Angry Joe review just. The AJ criticisms seem to be a great encapsulation of all the frustrations I've read about Destiny thus far -- while the production values like graphics, art direction and music, as well as the core mechanics of the game like controls and shooting are sound, the narrative is very weak and the systems/loot/level design is similarly weak as well.

I'm just surprised that a game that has such production values can get basic MMO systems like loot and level design this poorly. Then again, when someone like Luke Smith can become a design lead on Destiny for Bungie, I'm really not.
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I don't understand what people mean when they talk about level design. I always believed level design in a fps is how the map is designed, and how it creates fun gameplay sequences during the encounters. By this meaning, the level design of Destiny is just one of the best (if not the best) I ever seen, all the maps are so well crafted it's amazing. Because the level design is really top notch, the game never feels unfair and is very rewarding. Fighting hordes of ennemies while jumping and rushing everywhere from cover to cover, getting the upper ground with well timed double jumps, surprising the ennemies are what makes the mechanics of the game stand out and they are the result of a very good level design.
 
tokyobanana said:
I decided on passing on Destiny after the initial fan reactions and I watched the Angry Joe review just. The AJ criticisms seem to be a great encapsulation of all the frustrations I've read about Destiny thus far -- while the production values like graphics, art direction and music, as well as the core mechanics of the game like controls and shooting are sound, the narrative is very weak and the systems/loot/level design is similarly weak as well.

I'm just surprised that a game that has such production values can get basic MMO systems like loot and level design this poorly. Then again, when someone like Luke Smith can become a design lead on Destiny for Bungie, I'm really not.
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What's the background on that? Why Luke specifically?
 
I would have said it's like a drug, we know it's not good but we keep coming for that hit.

Joe's review is pretty much my thoughts aside from the 500 million thingy.
 
Massa said:
There is no background. He's just personally attacking someone to criticize a game he hasn't played.
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Hey kid, there are plenty of events, content, things that people can actually talk about without having done it or experienced it themselves. Here's a list: Death, abortion, music, politics, war, drugs.

The next time you try to use your limp excuse, I suggest you think.


Zombie James said:
He moved up to a design lead? Hmm...
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Lukesmith.jpg
 
Luke Smith was a journalist for 1UP I think before moving over to Bungie to be a community manager.

But whatever. That means nothing.

What is more interesting is Luke Smith's gaming history. If you look at his Twitter account you will notice he still proudly lists "Scarab Lord" and has it as his profile picture. That is probably the rarest title in WoW as you had to be there at the time and only one person per server was able to get it for opening up the Ahn'Qiraj raid (which took the efforts of the entire server to do). Luke Smith was a really hardcore raider back in vanilla WoW.

I would say there are elements of that in Destiny's design.
 
I just watched the video where someone shows the location of the loot cave and it was hilarious how easy and how effective this is. I am actually shocked that Bungie did not catch this, but am surprised even moreso that they have not patched it yet to eliminate it.
 
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