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Deus Ex: Mankind Divided I Review Thread I I asked for this

I'll judge it as a half baked sequel and ME3 tier disappointment when I have fucking played it and not when the pre-release internet echochamber decides to fixate on the most negative reviews as universal acceptance that the Deus Ex sky is falling.

Gonna have to go with this for now.

I've seen a lot of pre-release hype-deflations based off of anecdotes that turned out to be hot air or outright bullshit in my time.

Though I do find it hilarious how DXMD is having the exact opposite hype-curve of DXHR. I mean, DXHR was being treated like Federation Force up until like a week before release, and now DXMD is going from MAXIMUM HYPE at reveal and suddenly outrage a few days before release.
 
I'll judge it as a half baked sequel and ME3 tier disappointment when I have fucking played it and not when the pre-release internet echochamber decides to fixate on the most negative reviews as universal acceptance that the Deus Ex sky is falling.

This is exactly how I feel. I'll wait and play it to judge for myself how disappointing it is. From most reviews though it seems the gameplay is good and the side quests and world are interesting, so if the main story sucks at least we've got that.
 

etta

my hard graphic balls
I'll judge it as a half baked sequel and ME3 tier disappointment when I have fucking played it and not when the pre-release internet echochamber decides to fixate on the most negative reviews as universal acceptance that the Deus Ex sky is falling.
But why in the world would people lie on the internet? Surely no one has done it.
 
Also, just because a sequel doesn't pull an "AC2/ME2/TW2/TW3/UC2" levels of a sequel-jump doesn't somehow make it a disappointment.

Sure, everyone wishes a sequel could make magnitudes of improvement to the extent it practically leaves the previous game look like it was nothing more than a foundation of nice ideas, but that doesn't happen with every sequel.

We were promised a game that builds on the foundation of HR, and from all the reviews, that is exactly what MD seems to be. What it lacks, seems to be lateral ambition in scope and narrative as it focuses on density, which comes at the expense of having more hubs with that same density in quantity.
 
This is obviously a conspiracy theory by Eidos to make us get the Deus Ex: Black Light© companion novel so that the fans will fell they have a fuller story https://www.amazon.com/dp/178565120X/?tag=neogaf0e-20

well you win this round Eidos

I really want to read this, but they decided to release it the day the game comes out and it's a prequel ... I wish they had released it like a week before. Someone on Reddit had an early copy though and summarized the chapters and apparently
it implies Malik may be alive in the cannon universe by the way Adam talks about her.
 
I'll judge it as a half baked sequel and ME3 tier disappointment when I have fucking played it and not when the pre-release internet echochamber decides to fixate on the most negative reviews as universal acceptance that the Deus Ex sky is falling.

Away with you and your logical statements.
 
Hey I just quote other people lmfao...

I'll be there on Tuesday playing it, all we can do is have some faith in ourselves and not the internet on that day.
 
Can someone fill me in on the first act of HR? This sounds abrupt and horrible but I haven't played HR so I don't get the point of reference.

How can I explain this... It's basically like the first substantial lead after a couple of small leads, but takes place prior to the most important events/uncoverings that happen in the story.

I don't know for sure how to get that across, but anyway, as someone who knows HR's plot, that particular statement alludes to something that sounds very bad :p
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Human Revolution was littered with problems. The narrative had terrible pacing issues and comes to a lame half conclusion in an undercooked, kitschy climax against a poorly developed antagonist. The quality of writing and characters varies widely. The final stage was rushed and half finished, leans on dumb zombie-like opponent tropes, as bigger plans were cut as further elaborated on by the developer commentary. The boss fights were all terrible and failed to accommodate the diversity of Deus Ex play style builds. XP bonuses and rewards were insanely skewered in favour of stealth, unbalancing the game. There was almost always an easy vent path path around your problem, so much so they joked about this issue in the commentary. Aggressive combat felt off no matter your choice of gun and augs. The energy system was badly envisioned and didn't make sense in play. There was no reason to not pour points into hacking as it was a crazy versatile solution to every encounter and borderline essential to explore the narrative's deeper background lore. The game's release was bloated with dumb pre-order junk, including missions and weapons. It had a rough development, the engine was tough to work with, and numerous arcs/stages/hubs/missions got cut. It looked technically dated as hell, art direction aside. It was delayed a handful of times and still didn't wrap up as nicely as it should have.

And yet it remains one of my favourite games of last gen, one I've played through ~5 or so times (counting the director's cut), and overwhelmed me in how accurately it faithfully captured the essence of Deus Ex even if in practice it isn't as narratively expansive, mechanically rich, or systematically deep as the franchise's glorious roots. Human Revolution rarely if ever offers the kind of scope Deus Ex did at its best. But it was still a very, very faithful sequel.

Maybe Mankind Divided isn't the sequel to Human Revolution it could have been. Maybe it had huge development issues, and maybe some dumb mistakes were made again that should have been learned from the latter title. I already know I'm going to be disappointed by the lack of hubs. And an under cooked, shortlived story and climax is lame given they admitted these problems were in HR.

But fuck it. There's still nothing out there like Deus Ex, because this dumbass industry seems to think these kinds of games don't warrant investment (or are too expensive, unsafe, I don't know). And while there's nothing wrong with dipping into reviews and reading impressions from those you trust and letting that temper your expectations and/or change your purchasing habits, it's fucking stupid to let these spearhead spiralling cynicism and disappointment for a first-hand experience you haven't even played. Quality isn't binary. Experience isn't either. Artworks are the sum total of parts and an experience can end horrendously shitty and still leave you with fond memories. A to Z, not A to B. And even then what you feel, and the extent to which, isn't necessarily going to align perfectly with what you read before hand.

The citation of Mass Effect 3 is a great personal example, actually. Do you know how much I fucking hate the ending of that game? I could write a goddamn encyclopedia of hate and disappointment for what I felt, and more importantly why. The negative emotional resonance that turd has within me is borderline overwhelming. And yet I still adored almost everything in that game up until the end point, bought and loved all the DLC, and put something like 200 hours into the fucking dope as hell multiplayer. It's the best shittest game ever.

Maybe Mankind Divided will be the best shittest Deus Ex. That'll be interesting.
 

carlsojo

Member
But fuck it. There's still nothing out there like Deus Ex

Maybe Mankind Divided will be the best shittest Deus Ex. That'll be interesting.

IMO I found Dishonored to be a bit like Deus Ex in that there's a kill everyone or kill no one path. Except, Dishonored did it right vs. Human Revolution. I'm hoping Mankind Divided is better.

Sidenote: I've been replaying Human Revolution doing the no-kill stealth ghost run, and I just got to the first boss. I thought they updated it so that I can do the fights with hacking and shit, but apparently I don't own the Director's Cut. Fuck this, fuck this game, fuck this stupid boss, I'm out.
 
...
The citation of Mass Effect 3 is a great personal example, actually. Do you know how much I fucking hate the ending of that game? I could write a goddamn encyclopedia of hate and disappointment for what I felt, and more importantly why. The negative emotional resonance that turd has within me is borderline overwhelming. And yet I still adored almost everything in that game up until the end point, bought and loved all the DLC, and put something like 200 hours into the fucking dope as hell multiplayer. It's the best shittest game ever.

Maybe Mankind Divided will be the best shittest Deus Ex. That'll be interesting.

Yea, I mean you took the words right out of my mouth about I felt. I never even replayed Mass Effect 3 (replayed 1 and 2 countless times, irony at its finest)..but I did spend a truck load of time in the MP (best co-op MP to this date bar none).

Sure people say it's the journey rather than the destination, but ME3 wasn't a singular game, it was the end to a trilogy's worth of player's decisions and emotions all boiled down to 3 colors of the rainbow.

MD isn't playing on the same strings in ME in that sense because no choices carry over from HR...but...

The caveat for me is that 5 years have gone by and it's 2016 and I want to play a Deus Ex game so bad. So I will play it. I just know what to expect when it all ends and I hope to have the willpower to replay it.
 

etta

my hard graphic balls
Human Revolution was littered with problems. The narrative had terrible pacing issues and comes to a lame half conclusion in an undercooked, kitschy climax against a poorly developed antagonist. The quality of writing and characters varies widely. The final stage was rushed and half finished, leans on dumb zombie-like opponent tropes, as bigger plans were cut as further elaborated on by the developer commentary. The boss fights were all terrible and failed to accommodate the diversity of Deus Ex play style builds. XP bonuses and rewards were insanely skewered in favour of stealth, unbalancing the game. There was almost always an easy vent path path around your problem, so much so they joked about this issue in the commentary. Aggressive combat felt off no matter your choice of gun and augs. The energy system was badly envisioned and didn't make sense in play. There was no reason to not pour points into hacking as it was a crazy versatile solution to every encounter and borderline essential to explore the narrative's deeper background lore. The game's release was bloated with dumb pre-order junk, including missions and weapons. It had a rough development, the engine was tough to work with, and numerous arcs/stages/hubs/missions got cut. It looked technically dated as hell, art direction aside. It was delayed a handful of times and still didn't wrap up as nicely as it should have.

And yet it remains one of my favourite games of last gen, one I've played through ~5 or so times (counting the director's cut), and overwhelmed me in how accurately it faithfully captured the essence of Deus Ex even if in practice it isn't as narratively expansive, mechanically rich, or systematically deep as the franchise's glorious roots. Human Revolution rarely if ever offers the kind of scope Deus Ex did at its best. But it was still a very, very faithful sequel.

Maybe Mankind Divided isn't the sequel to Human Revolution it could have been. Maybe it had huge development issues, and maybe some dumb mistakes were made again that should have been learned from the latter title. I already know I'm going to be disappointed by the lack of hubs. And an under cooked, shortlived story and climax is lame given they admitted these problems were in HR.

But fuck it. There's still nothing out there like Deus Ex, because this dumbass industry seems to think these kinds of games don't warrant investment (or are too expensive, unsafe, I don't know). And while there's nothing wrong with dipping into reviews and reading impressions from those you trust and letting that temper your expectations and/or change your purchasing habits, it's fucking stupid to let these spearhead spiralling cynicism and disappointment for a first-hand experience you haven't even played. Quality isn't binary. Experience isn't either. Artworks are the sum total of parts and an experience can end horrendously shitty and still leave you with fond memories. A to Z, not A to B. And even then what you feel, and the extent to which, isn't necessarily going to align perfectly with what you read before hand.

The citation of Mass Effect 3 is a great personal example, actually. Do you know how much I fucking hate the ending of that game? I could write a goddamn encyclopedia of hate and disappointment for what I felt, and more importantly why. The negative emotional resonance that turd has within me is borderline overwhelming. And yet I still adored almost everything in that game up until the end point, bought and loved all the DLC, and put something like 200 hours into the fucking dope as hell multiplayer. It's the best shittest game ever.

Maybe Mankind Divided will be the best shittest Deus Ex. That'll be interesting.
BOLgyQq6NFfhu.gif



Ya I don't know if I can not buy it on Tuesday. Gameplay just looks so good and fun. And that art style mmmmmmmm so sweet.
 

TheYanger

Member
IMO I found Dishonored to be a bit like Deus Ex in that there's a kill everyone or kill no one path. Except, Dishonored did it right vs. Human Revolution. I'm hoping Mankind Divided is better.

Sidenote: I've been replaying Human Revolution doing the no-kill stealth ghost run, and I just got to the first boss. I thought they updated it so that I can do the fights with hacking and shit, but apparently I don't own the Director's Cut. Fuck this, fuck this game, fuck this stupid boss, I'm out.

No, fuck that. Deus Ex isn't about paths. Dishonored is sandboxy in how you can kill/sneak past enemies, but it's NOT Deus Ex. Human Revolution was miles closer to DE than Dishonored is.
 

A-V-B

Member
But fuck it. There's still nothing out there like Deus Ex

Minus the dialogue options, yeah there kinda is. It's called Dishonored and it's made by Harvey Smith, the guy who designed Deus Ex's gameplay. And if Mankind Divided can't nail its storytelling and tone, maybe Dishonored can, and that'd be cool.

Or maybe Dishonored 2 will piss everyone off too. Combine that with Last Guardian potentially failing, and this will be one of the worst years ever for me lol
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
IMO I found Dishonored to be a bit like Deus Ex in that there's a kill everyone or kill no one path. Except, Dishonored did it right vs. Human Revolution. I'm hoping Mankind Divided is better.

Sidenote: I've been replaying Human Revolution doing the no-kill stealth ghost run, and I just got to the first boss. I thought they updated it so that I can do the fights with hacking and shit, but apparently I don't own the Director's Cut. Fuck this, fuck this game, fuck this stupid boss, I'm out.

I feel Dishonored draws far more from Thief than it does Deus Ex, which Human Revolution does quite a good job of, but the design crossovers are expected due to the talent behind both franchises and the era in which they were born. In both cases the guts of design are player agency, structural openness, and design causality. The gameyness is there but hidden beneath what feels like organic interactivity and exploration of each stage/level/whatever, the player encouraged to experiment and levels refusing to adhere to strict, formulaic design and pathing. Human Revolution fucks that up on multiple occasions, but still channels Deus Ex. Dishonored definitely does a better job of that agency and openness as a whole.
 
Honestly, I'm playing the game and even reading that the end comes too quick, why are people so bent up on that aspect. The gameplay is just as good as HR if not better. Atmosphere is through the roof. Presenation is great. Unless the game takes a huge gameplay and choice dump, the experience is just fine. Everyone thinking this game is shit cause of a anticlimatic ending, guess play games for different reasons then me.
 

A-V-B

Member
Honestly, I'm playing the game and even reading that the end comes too quick, why are people so bent up on that aspect. The gameplay is just as good as HR if not better. Atmosphere is through the roof. Presenation is great. Unless the game takes a huge gameplay and choice dump, the experience is just fine.

Since it's the ending that's fucking said people up, why not wait and see what the ending's like?
 

Staf

Member
Fucking hell i just woke up and started skimming the last couple of pages in this thread. Why am i seeing mentions of Mass effect 3 in here? You're killing me GAF i want this game to be good so damn much! Please don't tell me the story is Mass effect bad...
 

A-V-B

Member
Fucking hell i just woke up and started skimming the last couple of pages in this thread. Why am i seeing mentions of Mass effect 3 in here? You're killing me GAF i want this game to be good so damn much! Please don't tell me the story is Mass effect bad...

I'm also hearing people compare it to MGSV. Very accurately, apparently. Great gameplay, shit story.

I haven't played it myself so I can't tell you if that's true, but it doesn't feel very positive right now.
 
Then it sounds like you're one of those "the journey is everything the destination means nothing" folks, and I'm actually, for real, envious. Have fun.

He didn't say the destination means nothing. He said it doesn't erase the fun throughout the journey. And I agree completely.

Some people put WAY too much significance into the endings.
 
Then it sounds like you're one of those "the journey is everything the destination means nothing" folks, and I'm actually, for real, envious. Have fun.

All I'm saying is, if your more about gameplay and getting that Dues Ex moments, enviroments, and elements, this is totally worth checking out. The end could be shit and will it most likely dissapoint me? Sure. Does it make it a bad Dues Ex or game in general? Heck no. That's all I'm getting at here.
 

A-V-B

Member
He didn't say the destination means nothing. He said it doesn't erase the fun throughout the journey. And I agree completely.

Some people put WAY too much significance into the endings.

Or maybe it's personal and subjective, and you can't put too much significance or too little into something that you want to find appealing.
 

Faynwulf

Member
This really reminds me of my experience with The Last of Us. A friend got it a bit early and he said he loved the gameplay and hated the story. And he also talked about how the game ended to early. And we know how that game turned out. And I'm not saying the game will be as good as TLoU. I just had a similar experience before that game came out.

I'm starving for a good cyberpunk gaming experience. So I don't think a bad or subpar story could sour me on that.
 
I don't care about good ending or bad ending nearly as much. If someone just said the ending was bad, then whatever. I might just disagree, because I thought HR had a great ending, story wise, and a lot of people thought that ending was bad.

Hearing that the journey feels like it gets cut off before it really picks up sounds much worse to me than just "bad ending".

Overall, that aspect is disappointing, because I'm invested in HR's story more than I am with most any other game I've ever played, so story was more important to me with this game than with most. Of course the gameplay is gonna be good af, just because I'm talking about a negative now doesn't mean I don't realize that. If it wasn't for breach mode though, I would have held off until it got a bit cheaper. Super excited for breach.
 

A-V-B

Member
I don't care about good ending or bad ending nearly as much. If someone just said the ending was bad, then whatever. I might just disagree, because I thought HR had a great ending, story wise, and a lot of people thought that ending was bad.

Hearing that the journey feels like it gets cut off before it really picks up sounds much worse to me than just "bad ending".

But that's what a bad ending is, right? A bad ending is technically flawed at its core. I mean, one can feel nitpicky or nonplussed over an ending but that doesn't mean it's bad. A bad ending compromises the structure of the story.
 
Or maybe it's personal and subjective, and you can't put too much significance or too little into something that you want to find appealing.

You have to follow the string of responses in a conversation. Someone called him out and said he's one of those people who thinks the ending means nothing and the journey is all that matters simply because he said a bad ending would not ruin his whole experience.

That line of reasoning is ridiculous. And that reminds me of people who think a bad ending ruins the entire experience. It is obviously subjective as virtually everything is in entertainment. But I do feel strongly that certain people get carried away with endings. They are important, but they should not ruin the 20 hours of fun you had.
 
But that's what a bad ending is, right? A bad ending is technically flawed at its core. I mean, one can feel nitpicky or nonplussed over an ending but that doesn't mean it's bad. A bad ending compromises the structure of the story.

A bad ending could be a conclusion that someone doesn't like for any kind of reason. Saying the story feels like it cuts off early and very abruptly is a much more specific assertion to make.
 

Stoze

Member
I haven't kept up with this game, is the experience system the same? Does it at least reward non-lethal and lethal, stealthy and guns blazing options somewhat equally this time?

To be honest it kind of killed HR for me and I was never able to finish it. Personally I thought the way experience was given out in that game sabotaged a lot of it's own design and balance imo. Incentivizing you to comb through the whole level (via traveler exp bonuses) despite it being constructed around taking one path and not needing to backtrack, non-lethal giving more experience for takedowns, getting passwords/keycodes becoming mostly obsolete due to hacking giving exp, etc.
 
Hmm, been hearing rumors from some early players who say that Mankind Divided shows signs of having been supposed to be a sequel to The Fall until it got absolutely hammered, and they swapped Ben out for Jensen after most of the plot was already written.
 
So I had pretty bad game breaking glitch. Thankfully PS+ cloud save files save me and only had to redo an hour's worth of gameplay. Got scared for a while because even my oldest save file led me to this glitch, didn't want to have to start the game all over again.
 

Mutombo

Member
So, I know it's a different game and all than Dark Souls. And I know some actually play that one for 'teh lore', but if reviewers are saying if you loved the previous one, you'll love this one, and the gameplay is even better and more fleshed out, why wouldn't I be stoked of this one?

To hark back on my Dark Souls comparison: i sure as shit don't play that game for the story. But it's an awesome experience. I can hardly remember HR's story either.
 

Pixieking

Banned
Hmm, been hearing rumors from some early players who say that Mankind Divided shows signs of having been supposed to be a sequel to The Fall until it got absolutely hammered, and they swapped Ben out for Jensen after most of the plot was already written.

Trump's next press conference: "People say that Mankind Divided was a sequel to The Fall... Well, I can tell you now, that some people say that means it's corrupt... But it may not be."

Seriously though, it seems unlikely, considering that The Fall was released 3 years ago, that they wouldn't rewrite it. We know that MD went through a rewrite of sorts after the Paris terrorist attack, so it's incredibly unlikely that they didn't rewrite sections of the original plot after changing the main character.
 

taimoorh

Member
Those who have played over half the game, or even completed, please just in spoiler tags tell me if most game takes place in Prague or other European settings?

I loved the Hong Kong setting of HR, but honestly if most of MD takes place in a European setting, I'm out until GOTY Edition release.

Don't ask me why, just personal preference, but I don't like European settings in games. It always feels drab and unexciting.
 

Mifec

Member
Those who have played over half the game, or even completed, please just in spoiler tags tell me if most game takes place in Prague or other European settings?

I loved the Hong Kong setting of HR, but honestly if most of MD takes place in a European setting, I'm out until GOTY Edition release.

Don't ask me why, just personal preference, but I don't like European settings in games. It always feels drab and unexciting.

You're out then.
 
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