DF on Zelda Switch: Docked has major frame drops, portable doesn't (no score talk)

I'm only a few hours in on Wii U but playing on gamepad it's mostly quite solid. A few nasty and noticeable drops, but it's generally pretty smooth (feels like 30fps). The drops are very noticeable, but they're not consistent.

It seems so strange that the game can be running fine, then suddenly drop 10fps. It's bizarre. It's like big drops or no drops. I wonder what the bottleneck is causing this? It's even more strange because sometimes the drops aren't in the most intensive looking scenes.
 
Last_colossi said:
Ok if this is a streaming issue due to the RAMs bandwidth then I really feel that Nintendo should patch BoTW with Dynamic Resolution Scaling.

That way the game could run at maybe even 1080p when it can then scale the resolution down to 720p if it needs to, that way it can maintain a steady 30fps.
Click to expand...
Yeah this would be a pretty quick and effective solution.
 
Poimandres said:
I'm only a few hours in on Wii U but playing on gamepad it's mostly quite solid. A few nasty and noticeable drops, but it's generally pretty smooth (feels like 30fps). The drops are very noticeable, but they're not consistent.

It seems so strange that the game can be running fine, then suddenly drop 10fps. It's bizarre. It's like big drops or no drops. I wonder what the bottleneck is causing this? It's even more strange because sometimes the drops aren't in the most intensive looking scenes.
Click to expand...

On the same system. I'd say they're pretty consistent. Only takes some transparency up close for the framerate to tank. Among other things. Stand close to a tree and rotate the camera around so the leaves turn transparent and you always have your 10fps.
It really goes up and down all the time unless you're in an empty field with very little vegetation and or effects.
 
nOoblet16 said:
Just got to the first village in the game on WiiU and God the framerate tanks HARD !! I'm talking 15-20FPS of persistent performance while you are in village.

And the funny thing is there isn't even much in the village, 3-4 NPCs, 4-5 buildings and that's about it. No wonder the world and environment in this game is so....empty ! The game simply can't manage to do anything more it unless it's a small enclosed place like a shrine.
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Yeah this describes the performance of the Wii U version perfectly.
 
Bandwidth shouldn't be a big problem on Switch with color compression and the new texture compression that it offers.

I guess that Nintendo hasn't implemented them on Zelda and is probably why the bandwidth suffers
 
b00_thegh0st said:
Bandwidth bottleneck prevents the console to be able to handle the game's physics @900p while maintaining 30fps. Combine that with the double buffer v-sync and you get those infamous 20fps prolonged drops. A 720p option would be nice if Nintendo doesn't have any other solution to offer.

I suspect the issue will arise with each game featuring taxing physic models.
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You are correct in that this seems to be a bandwidth issue but it's not the physics that is taxing the bandwidth, the framedrops don't happen when physics is being used. And quite honestly the physics model in this game is basic Havok physics with very clear limitations on what can and cannot be manipulated, we've seen superior models than this even in last gen games.

The game drops frames whenever there is a lot of alpha, shadows or objects to draw (long draw distance)....meaning this is a definitely bandwidth issue related to those.
 
NSESN said:
Can someone in the know confirm this? I don't want people creating false hopes.
Click to expand...

Anything can be optimised, it's just whether Nintendo think it's worth it given that it's not *that* often that it happens and people have bought the Switch anyway.
 
Mr Swine said:
Bandwidth shouldn't be a big problem on Switch with color compression and the new texture compression that it offers.

I guess that Nintendo hasn't implemented them on Zelda and is probably why the bandwidth suffers
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be surprised given this is essentially a WiiU game. But it's strange because WiiU was bandwidth starved even compared to PS3, so you'd think they'd try to make their game bandwidth light. Cause I'm not sure why they'd make the decision to make a game that stresses upon one of the weakest point of the hardware.
 
knerl said:
Well as of now CEMU doesn't run any games more stable than on the real machine does it?
Click to expand...

Which is why I say wait a year ;) I'm currently playing Xenoblade Chronicles X with zero problems apart from occasionally loading hiccups that I get with all emulators (even Dolphin). That said I'm not that far in yet.
 
Malus said:
Lol I'm on blackout so I don't know who to trust, those who say it's tolerable or those who are disgusted by the frame drops. Guess I'll just have to test it myself.
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It can be completely fine one minute and just die the next, seemingly without anything changing or happening on screen. Also combat against a few moblins hurts it hard which can be jarring.

It's not unplayable though. Depends how sensitive you are to framerate. Have you ever played Half-Life 2 on OG Xbox?
 
AzaK said:
Which is why I say wait a year ;) I'm currently playing Xenoblade Chronicles X with zero problems apart from occasionally loading hiccups that I get with all emulators (even Dolphin). That said I'm not that far in yet.
Click to expand...

knerl said:
Well as of now CEMU doesn't run any games more stable than on the real machine does it?
Click to expand...
It runs a about 15 games at full speed at 4K depending on your system specs. You guys should check out the thread sometime.
 
So what's the Switch doing internally if you set the core system output to 720p? I can't find mention of that. Does Zelda still run at 900 then downscale? That would be odd!
 
mclem said:
So what's the Switch doing internally if you set the core system output to 720p? I can't find mention of that. Does Zelda still run at 900 then downscale? That would be odd!
Click to expand...
Yes it does. Changing the resolution output won't change the internal rendering resolution of the console. The only time the switch is doing this is when you go from docked to undocked.
 
mclem said:
So what's the Switch doing internally if you set the core system output to 720p? I can't find mention of that. Does Zelda still run at 900 then downscale? That would be odd!
Click to expand...
It changes the output to 720p yes. Exact same as if you change another consoles output to 720p. Games will still run at whatever resolution they're rendered to.
 
nOoblet16 said:
I wouldn't be surprised given this is essentially a WiiU game. But it's strange because WiiU was bandwidth starved even compared to PS3, so you'd think they'd try to make their game bandwidth light. Cause I'm not sure why they'd make the decision to make a game that stresses upon one of the weakest point of the hardware.
Click to expand...
Dude, Wii U has more than 80GB/s of total bandwidth, that's twice that of PS3, and no developer ever complained about bandwidth but about its extremely shitty CPU.
 
Sadly this is what i was afraid of, the Switch being under powered (again like Wii) even before its out. Sure its a nice hybrid thing and sure there will be some nice games on it but why does Nintendo keep making hardware that are just under-powered and keep struggling with even last get standard 1080p. I do like the Switch but i would have preferred a much stronger console.

Ok i'm playing Zelda on TV mode and yes it drops frames but so far its not "very" distracting but comming from Nioh on PS4 i dont see how Zelda get a 10 out of 10 to be honest. Not yet anyway. I'm sure the story will be a 10 but the overall i dont think so.
Also Nintendo did not make the game for the switch i'm sure which is also contributing to the framerate issues.

On the second note i think the Switch itself has 2 major design flaws!
1) The screen is made of plastic which sucks in itself and being plastic Nintendo did not make a very good design for the Dock which can easily scratch the screen when your docking and taking it out. Just a few links to people already seeing this after a day or two:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUZ-Icqhemw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ofZ41HIgSU

2) I opened the Switch and was going to charge it while on my table BUT guess what its not possible. Hmmm that is an absolute chocking fact. People on the train who will use the device and have it charged cant do it. That is just sad. I reallize the whole docking thing but still as a consumer it sucks.

3) Also another maybe minor flaw i have is that i cant even charge the joycon using the controller it comes with. I dont care it dont have a battery in it but it should atleast have a charger port so i dont have to keep putting it on the Switch. I will mostly use the switch docked so i dont want to bother with the in and out for the joycon.
 
vampyren said:
2) I opened the Switch and was going to charge it while on my table BUT guess what its not possible. Hmmm that is an absolute chocking fact. People on the train who will use the device and have it charged cant do it. That is just sad. I reallize the whole docking thing but still as a consumer it sucks.

.
Click to expand...

What ? Why not ?

This is awful.

edit :

oh so they put the jack on top and charger at the bottom.

Well I like that kind of cancerous design Nintendo, keep it up.
 
nOoblet16 said:
I wouldn't be surprised given this is essentially a WiiU game. But it's strange because WiiU was bandwidth starved even compared to PS3, so you'd think they'd try to make their game bandwidth light. Cause I'm not sure why they'd make the decision to make a game that stresses upon one of the weakest point of the hardware.
Click to expand...

Actually Wii U has a much larger effective memory bandwidth.
 
vampyren said:
Sadly this is what i was afraid of, the Switch being under powered (again like Wii) even before its out. Sure its a nice hybrid thing and sure there will be some nice games on it but why does Nintendo keep making hardware that are just under-powered and keep struggling with even last get standard 1080p. I do like the Switch but i would have preferred a much stronger console.

Ok i'm playing Zelda on TV mode and yes it drops frames but so far its not "very" distracting but comming from Nioh on PS4 i dont see how Zelda get a 10 out of 10 to be honest. Not yet anyway. I'm sure the story will be a 10 but the overall i dont think so.
Also Nintendo did not make the game for the switch i'm sure which is also contributing to the framerate issues.

On the second note i think the Switch itself has 2 major design flaws!
1) The screen is made of plastic which sucks in itself and being plastic Nintendo did not make a very good design for the Dock which can easily scratch the screen when your docking and taking it out. Just a few links to people already seeing this after a day or two:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUZ-Icqhemw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ofZ41HIgSU

2) I opened the Switch and was going to charge it while on my table BUT guess what its not possible. Hmmm that is an absolute chocking fact. People on the train who will use the device and have it charged cant do it. That is just sad. I reallize the whole docking thing but still as a consumer it sucks.

3) Also another maybe minor flaw i have is that i cant even charge the joycon using the controller it comes with. I dont care it dont have a battery in it but it should atleast have a charger port so i dont have to keep putting it on the Switch. I will mostly use the switch docked so i dont want to bother with the in and out for the joycon.
Click to expand...

lol

I hope Nintendo get the framerate fixed. After some deliberation and my son desperate to play Zelda (on the TV), I'm going to dip at the end of this month.
 
The docked performance is honestly nearly unplayable for me. I really hope they can patch this, but I doubt it'll happen. Very disappointing.
 
knerl said:
On the same system. I'd say they're pretty consistent. Only takes some transparency up close for the framerate to tank. Among other things. Stand close to a tree and rotate the camera around so the leaves turn transparent and you always have your 10fps.
It really goes up and down all the time unless you're in an empty field with very little vegetation and or effects.
Click to expand...

That's pretty interesting! I thought the particle effects might have something to do with it (drops in battles) but didn't realise about transparencies.

Im sure the gamepad is doing the game a lot of favours in terms of iq and how noticeable minor drops are. Funny that after all this time this is the only Wii U game that's going to have major off tv use from me.
 
flipswitch said:
Has Nintendo ever released a patch to improve performance in the past?
Click to expand...

I'm sure I watched a video recently, before the reviews hit, that mentioned DOF was the cause of slowdown.

I'll see if I can find it. If it is that, there's hope hope that Nintendo can dial it back and keep the frame rate stable.
 
I have the feeling Zelda going to be an exception regarding poor performance. There later games like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe what are month further down the line for example seem to run exceptionally well and at 1080p 60fps. Game is suffering from its history of being a WiiU game.
 
Vol5 said:
lol

I hope Nintendo get the framerate fixed. After some deliberation and my son desperate to play Zelda (on the TV), I'm going to dip at the end of this month.
Click to expand...

Good for you :D its a nice game overall, not arguing that, i really enjoy the world but i'm not playing it to much, need to finish Nioh first :)
 
I'm loading up the DF video now, but for people who are playing it, are we talking frame drops like non-PC Dragon's Dogma stuff?
 
MechaX said:
I'm loading up the DF video now, but for people who are playing it, are we talking frame drops like non-PC Dragon's Dogma stuff?
Click to expand...

HELL NO! I played it on PS3, played AssCreed 3 and 4 on the Wii U and BoTW's performance is nowhere near as bad as those games and people are making it out to be on Switch.
 
vampyren said:
2) I opened the Switch and was going to charge it while on my table BUT guess what its not possible. Hmmm that is an absolute chocking fact. People on the train who will use the device and have it charged cant do it. That is just sad. I reallize the whole docking thing but still as a consumer it sucks.
Click to expand...

Wait are you saying I can only charge from the dock? Are you sure about that?
 
No idea what changed, but after leaving the starting area, the drops became way less frequent. Not gone, but they happen so little that I stopped noticing them almost.

Might pick up again, since I haven't been to a village yet, but so far, it's been nice enough.
 
Zombegoast said:
HELL NO! I played it on PS3, played AssCreed 3 and 4 on the Wii U and BoTW's performance is nowhere near as bad as those games and people are making it out to be on Switch.
Click to expand...

Seriously. I've had a few instances of dropped frames but in no way has it dramatically altered my feelings on the game or ruined a big moment. Since I've gotten off the plateau it's happened twice. There are areas on the great plateau where it could be replicated pretty easily. Not sure what is causing the issue, but in no way does it break the game or render it unplayable.
 
xyla said:
No idea what changed, but after leaving the starting area, the drops became way less frequent. Not gone, but they happen so little that I stopped noticing them almost.
Click to expand...

Yeah mine has been good. I expected a massive drop in Kakariko Village as everyone blames that area but it was completely fine.

I'm playing docked the whole time.
 
EloquentM said:
It runs a about 15 games at full speed at 4K depending on your system specs. You guys should check out the thread sometime.
Click to expand...

No I know what it does as of now, but my point was rather that it probably won't "overclock" the emulated machine so the framerate playing game x at best will be the same as on the real device. In short. If it runs bad on a real Wii U it probably will on CEMU as well.
 
I find it hard to believe that Nintendo wouldn't try and rectify this situation with a patch or two to iron out the smoothness. On the other hand though, the game has been critically acclaimed, with 10s across the board. Nintendo might be busy counting their money at the moment.

Has Nintendo ever had to patch a first party title due to bad performance? I'm playing on Wii U and between Botw and Horizon Zero Dawn, my head is going to explode from all this gaming goodness.

PS: Zelda looks amazing on my Samsung KS8500 :)))) despite the few hiccups.
 
sazzy said:
So this confirms that Switch is a handheld with HDMI-out right?
Click to expand...



For me it is. Between this and the screen scratching issues when docking/undocking, this will just be a really nice portable with the added benefit that I can connect the to the tv now and again.
 
Stinkles said:
Wait are you saying I can only charge from the dock? Are you sure about that?
Click to expand...

I am charging my switch using the same connector I charge my gpd-win on, I have no idea what he is talking about.

There are a lot of things about the switch I absolutely hate, but that isn't one of them
 
It is a cross-generation launch game, not originally planned for Switch, don't know how much time they had for that conversion. But the same-ish performance (not great) and visuals ('cept +180p's) as four year old hardware, is still disappointing. Especially for the flagship title by the company that's making the hardware.

If I wasn't saving up for a PS4 Pro I'd be looking at getting a used Wii U. I regret not already owning one.
 
nOoblet16 said:
I wouldn't be surprised given this is essentially a WiiU game. But it's strange because WiiU was bandwidth starved even compared to PS3, so you'd think they'd try to make their game bandwidth light. Cause I'm not sure why they'd make the decision to make a game that stresses upon one of the weakest point of the hardware.
Click to expand...

The WiiU has additional eDRAM.

While the off the shell Tegra X1 solution only deploys LPDDR4 with a bandwidth on similiar level of the previous console generation.
 
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