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Diablo III |OT3| Turn On Elective Mode, Get an Authenticator

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scy

Member
You guys are missing one possibility. 1h crossbow + quiver. Which is the setup I'm rocking because it's cheaper dw crossbow (not to mention 1h crossbows with dex, crit damage/socket, and +disc are almost non-existent on the AH) and yet it still allows you to have +discipline on both main hand and off-hand. With a higher crit chance (>30%), I've taken off sharpshooter because I don't like the mechanic which encourages suicide runs. Of course, on the other end, sharpshooter is more effective if you have low crit chance on your gear setup but that makes your damage more unreliable.

It's cheaper, sure, but DW is just better overall due to being able to get +Crit Damage on both AND socket it on both. And it was a min/max discussion so 2H higher damage just makes up for the other gains.

But I guess I should've listed it at least since it is an option. I just don't think it's as good as the others unless you're going for a high Attack Speed build with high base Crit%. Which it sounds like you're doing :x
 

LordCanti

Member
Jeez I stay away from this thread and I read a couple pages and I see people making money selling things and new patch notes clearly showing the game was not ready at launch, etc etc.

Crazy stuff man!

Yeah, a couple of people kind of broke the seal overnight. Now I kind of just want to get rid of my gold and be done until the expansion. I need to PM them and ask how they went about it.
 

Opiate

Member
About time! I've only been asking for an update just about ever day! :lol


Glad to see it's working. I did go sentry as well whenever I was partied up with a barb friend of mine and he was tanking. I would drop the sentry on him and he could sustain tanking quite a bit while I just DPS'd. Worked quite well. I might pair that up with the -%damage debuff from caltrops to help out even more for the tougher packs.

The really amazing thing about my build (so far) is that it has only barely compromised my dps. Like I said, I have 91k with sharp shooter; I am not just building survivability and sacrificing all dps in the process.

I am in fact confident that my build will be better end game than smoke screen is. As far as I can tell, smoke screen will never reach a point where you can "auto farm" and sort of easily farm through the content; it will always, always be vulnerable to sudden quick bursts of damage. It's very good for getting through the content the first time, since gear can be fairly weak, but my build long term is going to put out reasonably similar dps with much, much better survivability.

For the record, I wasn't even using guardian sentry at the time I tanked that 5 pack of elite/minions in a 4 man group last night. It was purely armor/resists/health + shadow power + lifesteal.
 

scy

Member
I wish they pushed out the group difficulty and loot table drops out faster. I want to play with my friends, not wait until "later this month" when most of them will probably have lost interest. :(

Luckily, most my friends have already lost interest for the time being and I can use 1.0.3 to entice them to play again!

...

...

I'll always have GAF, I guess...

The really amazing thing about my build (so far) is that it has only barely compromised my dps. Like I said, I have 91k with sharp shooter; I am not just building survivability and sacrificing all dps in the process.

I am in fact confident that my build will be better end game than smoke screen is. As far as I can tell, smoke screen will never reach a point where you can "auto farm" and sort of easily farm through the content; it will always, always be vulnerable to sudden quick bursts of damage. It's very good for getting through the content the first time, since gear can be fairly weak, but my build long term is going to put out reasonably similar dps with much, much better survivability.

The same for Wizards and Force Armor builds. We'll eventually gear to the point that we can have the HP, Armor, and Resists to sustain the few hits rather than rely on Force Armor for all our mitigation. We don't get nifty Life Steal% like you (wheee, 1.5% from Magic Weapon) so it's not quite the same but at least we too can gear out of a skill requirement.

Which, really, that's what Force Armor and Smokescreen function as right now. Ways to hide gear deficiencies. Smokescreen lets you not need to get better DPS + Defensive gear; Force Armor means you only need HP.
 

Dahbomb

Member
For those keeping track of my quirky build, I successfully tanked an Act III elite pack yesterday on my DH for 20 straight seconds; it was 4 minions + the champion all beating on me at once, and everyone else in my group (all wizards) were 1 shot by them. I stood and tanked them and they were able to safely dps from range.

My DPS with Sharp Shooter is 91k. This build will absolutely work end game, but it is significantly more gear dependant than are other DH builds.
What's the Build?
 
All those changes are looking really good. Strange that they made gem crafting dirt cheap on the lower end and left everything beyond Flawless Square untouched. I suppose their reasoning is that you'll only have to make one or two high tier gems for your weapons. At least it'll take 2 gems instead of 3 (I think)
 

syllogism

Member
My first good legendary and I've to say I'm pleased

ac1qp.png
 

Opiate

Member
What's the Build?

Life on hit/lifesteal; armor/resist/hp. Those aren't surprising for anyone building defense. Then I add on shadow power + gloom instead of smoke screen, which gives me 65% damage reduction for 18 seconds straight with a full discipline bar and preparation up.

I also use guardian senty on occassion and for progression, which grants an additional 15% DR for a total of 80% DR before armor/resists are even considered (I don't think this will be needed long term; I can already tank with just shadow power in many cases). It definitely works, but as I said, is more gear dependant than is the current smoke-screen-and-hope-to-blow-everything-up-before-you-blow-up build.
 

DSmalls84

Member
Luckily, most my friends have already lost interest for the time being and I can use 1.0.3 to entice them to play again!

...

...

I'll always have GAF, I guess...



The same for Wizards and Force Armor builds. We'll eventually gear to the point that we can have the HP, Armor, and Resists to sustain the few hits rather than rely on Force Armor for all our mitigation. We don't get nifty Life Steal% like you (wheee, 1.5% from Magic Weapon) so it's not quite the same but at least we too can gear out of a skill requirement.

Which, really, that's what Force Armor and Smokescreen function as right now. Ways to hide gear deficiencies. Smokescreen lets you not need to get better DPS + Defensive gear; Force Armor means you only need HP.

I don't see how you could already lose interest unless you just don't like the game at all! I have like 110 hours on my WD and still need to gear and finish Inferno, not to mention there are at least 2 other classes I want to play. Such a time sink...but an awesome one.
 

linsivvi

Member
4x or 8x repair cost increase? Yeah that won't make people go broke...

It is a big increase. On the other hand they are making the game much easier so as long as you play the game the right way you shouldn't die as much as you do right now.

The fact that there's no bonus damage for group play means that the game might become too easy after a while.

Then I add on shadow power + gloom instead of smoke screen, which gives me 65% damage reduction for 18 seconds straight with a full discipline bar and preparation up.

Never thought of that. I think I'd give it a try. Smoke screen is not useful to me in many situations because of whatever input lag/server lag/bad hit box causing it I get killed anyway. Get sick of seeing mortars coming my way and I die even after I moved out of the way with smoke screen on.
 

ShaneB

Member
Yeah, a couple of people kind of broke the seal overnight. Now I kind of just want to get rid of my gold and be done until the expansion. I need to PM them and ask how they went about it.

I feel like I'm lagging behind here since I've just been enjoying the game and haven't been in this thread much. I've barely even looked at the AH. I guess I'll get my Wizard to 60 finally and get on the bandwagon of getting those top item drops
 

scy

Member
What is this kulle exploit people talking about?

It's just killing him over and over. You can stagger the turn-ins so you get more mileage out of each kill, however.

You and three friends kill ZK to powerlevel you. Hooray those friends!
After ZK dies do not grab the soulstone; have your three friends leave and each make their own game.
Grab the soulstone in your game and turn it in.

Now, go to the first friend's game. He'll grab the soulstone but do not turn in the quest yet. Have him leave the game to make another new game. You can turn the quest in here for more EXP.
Join that same friend's game again. You can turn the quest in for more EXP.

Repeat that for the other two friends.

This basically means one ZK kill is worth:
1 turn-in (your original one) + 2 per friend involved.
 

Artanisix

Member
For Barb in Inferno I had some thoughts:

on Passive Skills a lot of people suggest. Tough as Nails, Nerves of steel, and either Pound of Flesh or Superstition.

Would it be better to go High Vitality, Armor, Resistance with 2 1-Handed Weapons while using barely any fury and use the Passive Skill that gives 25% more damage at max fury? Also maybe stack with the Brawler Passive. Sort of like tanking especially against elite packs.

Revenge, War Cry, and Ignore Pain I do not believe use fury. Have not tried overpower yet but I believe that does not either.

As a 2h barb I use Nerves of Steel, Weapon Master, and Ruthless. Although I've been thinking about using the passive skill for 25% more damage instead of weapon master since i'm using a sword and my only fury spender is WotB. You're correct, none of those skills cost any fury.

Not a fan of brawler passive personally since it doesn't really help with bosses.
 

Totakeke

Member
It's cheaper, sure, but DW is just better overall due to being able to get +Crit Damage on both AND socket it on both. And it was a min/max discussion so 2H higher damage just makes up for the other gains.

But I guess I should've listed it at least since it is an option. I just don't think it's as good as the others unless you're going for a high Attack Speed build with high base Crit%. Which it sounds like you're doing :x

Mmm, yeah. In the end I didn't like how inconsistent my damage was in Inferno as every second counted especially in boss fights and I didn't want to not know if I'd kill the mob before it reaches me or I needed to pop SS. With that I should've ignored crit altogether and just go for pure base dps, but I just tweaked the gear I already had to increase attack speed (traded the 2h xbow for a 1h) and get a respectable crit % to smoothen out the bursts.
 
Hmm after seeing that I'm not sure if I want to farm act 1 on my wizard just to get money so I can progress in act 3 or level my demon hunter and a monk or barbarian(can't decide which melee to play), and just wait for 1.0.3
 

scosher

Member
Good to see the iLvl changes. I felt that was the biggest problem with the loot progression in this game.

In this regard, they shouldn't have mimic'd D2's loot tables. iLvl ranges were just as broad in that game -- you had just as much of a chance of getting iLvl 84 Archon Plate as you did iLvl 74 Dusk Shroud -- but it wasn't really an issue for a number of reasons:

1) The game was definitively easier so even if you did get lower iLvls, they were still usable and possibly an upgrade if you got a good stat roll. Diablo 3 is much more of a gear check and iLvl of an item plays a much more important role in your ability to progress, especially your weapon.

2) With Str/Dex requirements on armor/weapons, some classes needed those lower iLvl items for their build. Diablo 3 gets rid of these prereqs. Lower iLvl items are almost always a downgrade if you already have a higher iLvl item equipped (even if it's blue), unless you get a godly stat roll. Which is probably why 95% of the drops in this game are total crap, including legendaries/sets.

3) In regards to legendaries/sets, in D2, there was a unique for every base piece of armor/weapon. But they made it so even if a unique was based on an iLvl 75 weapon, it often had the stats of an item 10 iLvls higher, making most uniques a worthwhile upgrade that could last you 5-10 levels before you found a higher iLvl rare. For D3, they need to redesign the stats on their legendaries/sets so that they're significantly better than what their base iLvl would place them as.
 
Is there any reason I'd want to use a 2hand mace (0.90 attacks per second) over a faster 2hand sword (1.10 aps) ? Both with the exact same high end stats.

I'm not sure if it makes a difference.
 
Not sure about the bonus damage for group play change. Seems like there would be better ways to handle the problem, as on the high end, it's fine (and to be expected) that monsters are tougher when playing in a group. It encourages teamwork, as you'll need other people to survive. There's conflicting views coming from the high-end and low-end in this case, and I don't think you can solve both with just a binary change like this.

The other stuff in the patch is all good, but ideally would have been here at launch/faster. Thank god for the gem combine/crafting cost changes.

The guaranteed rare drop from champions/rares at 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor is a good change.
 

Opiate

Member
I'm fairly upset that they're nerfing the difficulty of inferno -- it was already too easy for my preferences, as already discussed.

Everything else sounds great. Repair cost increase is a welcome change to improve gold sinks and fight inflation; gear drops in act I are great simply so people can progress more smoothly and because it provides an incentive to still farm act I even in end game, so that not everyone crams in to act III/IV finding the "optimal" run and doing nothing but that until the end of time; changes to crafters are small but good; the nephalem valor change is great and further reduces the highly repetitive farm-baal-until-the-end-of-time approach.

The big issue left undiscussed is obviously bots. They can single handedly ruin this game if not addressed in some manner, and no amount of gold sinks will stop inflation if bots are running wild. So we'll see what happens.
 

Artanisix

Member
Is there any reason I'd want to use a 2hand mace (0.90 attacks per second) over a faster 2hand sword (1.10 aps) ? Both with the exact same high end stats.

I'm not sure if it makes a difference.

Mace will give you more earthquake/Seismic Slam damage without weapon master. I think swords are better for your spells if you choose to use weapon master though (as long as the weapon dps isn't inflated enormously by IAS).
 

Spl1nter

Member
Think I am going to take a break from the game until 1.03. Makes sense to take a break now and not get burnt out. Especially when the game will be a lot less grindy soon.
 

scy

Member
Is there any reason I'd want to use a 2hand mace (0.90 attacks per second) over a faster 2hand sword (1.10 aps) ? Both with the exact same high end stats.

I'm not sure if it makes a difference.

Damage Range on them so the Damage per Hit is different. Also, Attack Speed is used in many skills so it makes a difference there in how fast you attack (e.g., for a Wizard, casting slower means stopping for a longer period of time when you cast once). Besides that, higher Attacks per Second means you hit more often which is great for things like Life on Hit.
 

TommyT

Member
I'm fairly upset that they're nerfing the difficulty of inferno -- it was already too easy for my preferences, as already discussed.

While I did post my excitement about this ("!!!") I was hoping they would scale it down rather than just take it away completely.
 

linsivvi

Member
Not sure about the bonus damage for group play change. Seems like there would be better ways to handle the problem, as on the high end, it's fine (and to be expected) that monsters are tougher when playing in a group. It encourages teamwork, as you'll need other people to survive. There's conflicting views coming from the high-end and low-end in this case, and I don't think you can solve both with just a binary change like this.

The other stuff in the patch is all good, but ideally would have been here faster. Thank god for the gem combine/crafting cost changes.

The monsters are already at 125% hp per additional player. Bonus damage is stupid simply for the fact that melee classes that have geared up to survive solo suddenly can't do it in a group of 4 any more, and range classes get 1-shotted way more often.

I do feel that without the bonus damage inferno will be a cake walk for any decent group of 4, so they will probably try find another way to make it more difficult somewhere down the line.

That gives me a feeling that they haven't thought things through at all.
 

Opiate

Member
Never thought of that. I think I'd give it a try. Smoke screen is not useful to me in many situations because of whatever input lag/server lag/bad hit box causing it I get killed anyway. Get sick of seeing mortars coming my way and I die even after I moved out of the way with smoke screen on.

I just want to emphasize that you'll need gear for this, as in late game inferno, even 65% DR is not enough on its own. I'm at ~300 resist all at the moment, and I only recently became able to just stand there and tank Act III inferno mortar shots with 300 resist + 65% DR + lifesteal.

Keep in mind that shadow power and nether tentacles (which I use) give 40% lifesteal or 8% in Inferno, which is still a great deal when you're doing huge amounts of damage. I also have 200 life on hit. Combined, my regen is very substantial and I tank something like a monk, where I take big shots that I can then rapidly regenerate.

As a final note, physical resist is a very big friend of this build.
 

scy

Member
I'm fairly upset that they're nerfing the difficulty of inferno -- it was already too easy for my preferences, as already discussed.

Everything else sounds great. Repair cost increase is a welcome change to improve gold sinks and fight inflation; gear drops in act I are great simply so people can progress more smoothly and because it provides an incentive to still farm act I even in end game, so that not everyone crams in to act III/IV finding the "optimal" run and doing nothing but that until the end of time; changes to crafters are small but good; the nephalem valor change is great and further reduces the highly repetitive farm-baal-until-the-end-of-time approach.

The big issue left undiscussed is obviously bots. They can single handedly ruin this game if not addressed in some manner, and no amount of gold sinks will stop inflation if bots are running wild. So we'll see what happens.

Yeah, Inferno actually isn't that hard. It's that gearing up for it isn't smooth. The loot drops and NV changes alone kind of makes up for that so any major overhauls to Inferno difficulty are unnecessary in my opinion.

Well, nerf Lacunis. Because I hate them.
 

Totakeke

Member
The monsters are already at 125% hp per additional player. Bonus damage is stupid simply for the fact that melee classes that have geared up to survive solo suddenly can't do it in a group of 4 any more, and range classes get 1-shotted way more often.

I do feel that without the bonus damage inferno will be a cake walk for any decent group of 4, so they will probably try find another way to make it more difficult somewhere down the line.

That gives me a feeling that they haven't thought things through at all.

Yeah, the amount of damage reduction stacking from skills for example can go very far.
 

Mitama

Member
Awesome patch! Think I'll just be clearing out act 3 in its entirety when the patch is here. Opiate: mind showing your gear on your demon hunter with the gloom build? I'm very interested in getting my resists and vitality up just so I don't get 1-shot by everything in inferno. I think gloom, combined with decent resists and vitality is pretty much necessary to get enough damage reduction to at least tank 2-3 hits. Did you just drop smoke screen entirely btw?
 

Opiate

Member
Awesome patch! Think I'll just be clearing out act 3 in its entirety when the patch is here. Opiate: mind showing your gear on your demon hunter with the gloom build? I'm very interested in getting my resists and vitality up just so I don't get 1-shot by everything in inferno. I think gloom, combined with decent resists and vitality is pretty much necessary to get enough damage reduction to at least tank 2-3 hits. Did you just drop smoke screen entirely btw?

I will, but I'm currently at work. I can fit in some GAF posts, but Diablo is definitely a no-no. I get home at 6PM EST/3PM PST, so I'll post then. My broad stats are ~300 resists, ~40k HP, high armor thanks to a few good pieces, lots of physical resist, and then everything else being as evenly distributed amongst the primary offensive stats as possible with generous amounts of crit damage, attack speed, dexterity and base crit chance. I deliberately try to avoid stacking a single stat of any kind.

And yes, I haven't used smoke screen since early act II inferno and I have skipped a total of 5 elite packs, so I'm not even playing the cheese-my-way-to-the-end game. I'm doing this as legitimately as I can. It has required a substantial amount of Act I farming to get gold/money to buy loot on the AH, though, as it is not an easy build to pull off without gear to support it.
 
I'm fairly upset that they're nerfing the difficulty of inferno -- it was already too easy for my preferences, as already discussed.

I'm not even through Act 2 inferno yet, but I liked knowing that I would have to work at getting to the end. What's the point in the game if it's easy for everyone to get to the end? I think it should be a challenge.
 
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