After only releasing one Xbox game, what's the general consensus regarding whether or not Rare's departure hurt Nintendo this generation? While it has not helped Microsoft at all, I subscribe to the belief that Rare would've released more games with Nintendo. I believe that the company was genuinely better under Nintendo.
Did Rare's departure hurt Nintendo?
- Thread starter missAran
- Start date
Warm Machine
Member
Most of the games that they were making for the cube would have been done by now and subsequently released. At the very least they would have been reasonably quality additions to the machines software library.
Rare was supposed to have Donkey Kong Racing, Kameo, and SFA ready for the gamecube launch, but they all lagged, and only SFA was released. Kameo has been delayed indefinetly, and Grabbed by the Ghoulies was utter garbage. I am looking forward to Conker, and I really hope it pulls Rare out of it's slump. I think Nintendo was wise to sell the shares it had in Rare, but then again, I can't look into my crystal ball and see what could have happened if they had kept their shares in Rare.
Catchpenny
Member
Yeah, GtbG, Donkey Kong Racing and Kameo would've saved Gamecube for sure.
MightyHedgehog
Member
IMO, Nintendo commited a mistake that will live to haunt them in the next generation.
kitchenmotors
Banned
MightyHedgehog said:
Haha, yeah, whatever. Loading off that worthless piece of hunk known as Rare is the best thing Nintendo could have done. They've gained Retro Studios in the process, which is 100x the developer Rare was in their prime.
well, at least rare's departure has hurt rare. nintendo fans would've pretended to like ghoulies. and how different would sfa's reputation be if rare hadn't left? yeah, it's a joyless clone of a classic nintendo franchise, but that description broadly fits the overrated half of rare's back catalogue. no one complained when dkc and banjo kazooie pulled the same trick. or at least there wasn't enough complaining.
the rare sale will start looking ugly when perfect dark zero is a big xenon launch title. i guess you have to appreciate the uncharacteristic grace with which nintendo let rare go: no litigation and no wrestling for franchises. but it's still perplexing that they'd sell a potentially valuable asset to a dangerous competitor.
the rare sale will start looking ugly when perfect dark zero is a big xenon launch title. i guess you have to appreciate the uncharacteristic grace with which nintendo let rare go: no litigation and no wrestling for franchises. but it's still perplexing that they'd sell a potentially valuable asset to a dangerous competitor.
Jonnyboy117
Member
When Rare was bought by Microsoft, they pledged to release five games in the next two years.
They succeeded. One is for Xbox, and the other four are for GBA. (Published by THQ...I doubt Microsoft has made much money on them.)
So far, the sale has been disastrous for Microsoft, although Nintendo's reallocation of that money towards increased third-party collaborations has not proven to be very successful either.
They succeeded. One is for Xbox, and the other four are for GBA. (Published by THQ...I doubt Microsoft has made much money on them.)
So far, the sale has been disastrous for Microsoft, although Nintendo's reallocation of that money towards increased third-party collaborations has not proven to be very successful either.
I think the reason that Nintendo didn't go after the franchises is because they wanted to get it over with as fast as possible. I also think that if Rare had kept SFA as Dinosaur Planet, it would have been much better than Rare forcing me to fight Andross at the end of Adventures.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
I think of it this way:
Had Nintendo kept Rare around, Rare might have already released their Kameo and their Donkey Kong Racing and their Conker and their Perfect Dark Zero. It'd have helped Nintendo out a bit. Not have completely saved them, but if even 2 of those titles were released, it would have helped Nintendo's image a bit. Spread the Gamecube's appeal a bit.
Microsoft came in at an awkward time to buy Rare, or really, The Stamper Brothers came in at an awkward time and decided to split from Nintendo. I think what had happened was that when Microsoft bought Rare, instead of turning them onto the Xbox (Since so many Microsoft investments kind of mirrored Rare's games, most notably Halo series : Perfect Dark series), they would give them some extra development time to focus toward the Xbox successor.
If the Xbox Next hits and Rare's games turn out to be a trump card in it's success, then Nintendo messed up by allowing a competitor to have a good leg up. It'd be misery for Nintendo to go up against the Xbox next coming off the strength of Perfect Dark Zero, which turns out to be the Xenon's Halo. More misery than they would have had to deal with if they'd kept Rare.
Had Nintendo kept Rare around, Rare might have already released their Kameo and their Donkey Kong Racing and their Conker and their Perfect Dark Zero. It'd have helped Nintendo out a bit. Not have completely saved them, but if even 2 of those titles were released, it would have helped Nintendo's image a bit. Spread the Gamecube's appeal a bit.
Microsoft came in at an awkward time to buy Rare, or really, The Stamper Brothers came in at an awkward time and decided to split from Nintendo. I think what had happened was that when Microsoft bought Rare, instead of turning them onto the Xbox (Since so many Microsoft investments kind of mirrored Rare's games, most notably Halo series : Perfect Dark series), they would give them some extra development time to focus toward the Xbox successor.
If the Xbox Next hits and Rare's games turn out to be a trump card in it's success, then Nintendo messed up by allowing a competitor to have a good leg up. It'd be misery for Nintendo to go up against the Xbox next coming off the strength of Perfect Dark Zero, which turns out to be the Xenon's Halo. More misery than they would have had to deal with if they'd kept Rare.
Catchpenny
Member
drohne said:
Except that it has the legacy of Halo to live up to as a Microsoft launch title. Might not be fair, but that's the way it will be.
Even if Perfect Dark Zero is a success, I'll bet Xenon owners will quickly go back to ignoring other Rare releases.
I find myself in agreement with Jonnyboy and snapty00. Nintendo could use the money allocated to Rare in a much more productive manner. So far, however, they have not.
I doubt Kameo would have been out yet for GameCube. It seems to have had troubled development on both systems. Same with Perfect Dark Zero. Donkey Kong Racing could have been neat though probably rather derivitive. Like Diddy Kong Racing, I'm sure it would have sold very well, but do nothing at all to help Nintendo's image.
MightyHedgehog
Member
kitchenmotors said:
They would've had Retro regardless of the Rare sale, IMO. And to call Rare worthless seems a bit strange, given that they helped to cement the SNES' win over Sega's Genesis with the DKC series, helped to keep the N64 afloat and succcessful with 12 titles, and gave many a GC owner something to look forward to in their system purchase. Not worthless by any stretch, IMO. Rare would very likely have released more exclusive titles on the GC by this time than they have for the XBOX...something that has hurt GC, IMO. Rare's stable of IPs are some of the most well-known and popular in the videogame world...and they're not part of Nintendo's plans anymore, but now a potential weapon against them with MS.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Rare really doesn't have to release that many games to recoup Microsoft's losses on them. Maybe 5 or 6 games next generation, and I really DO think they've used this generation's by-time as a rolling start on next generation. I honestly believe that. I think the cancelling of so many major Xbox titles in the last year has something to do with Xenon as well.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
Well, if the Xenon gets PDZ and a Banjo game early in the sytem's life, I'll be buying one. That won't stop me buying the Revolution, but I might not have bought a Xenon otherwise (probably would have, depends on the games).
So I guess that's negative to Nintendo. But not hugely so.
So I guess that's negative to Nintendo. But not hugely so.
Catchpenny
Member
The Abominable Snowman said:
It's not as though Microsoft's financial responsibility to Rare ended with the purchase. They still have to fund the development of these games. If only one or two of those games are successful, that's not very good.
MassiveAttack
Banned
This subject has been beaten to death... multiple times.
Rare is not worth an endless debate.
Rare is not worth an endless debate.
Yes, I found that a little surprising too. I'm pretty sure Nintendo could have at least attempted some legal argument that it has enough stake in Rare's n64 era franchises to prevent microsoft from obtaining them in the sale. However, since rare's propeties are mostly redundant clones of Nintendo franchises maybe nintendo felt that such acrimonious legal action was unnecessary. I mean, would Nintendo actually develop a Banjo Game when it has DK and Mario or Jet Force Gemini/PD when it has Metroid?
In the short term I think we can say that Rare has been irrelevant this generation. However, it would have been difficult to imagine the N64 without them. I don't know if they can become as valuable to MS as they were to Nintendo in that era. Despite their slump (and loss of some prominent talent), we know they are capable of making hits. All they need is another Goldeneye, sometime in the future, to make Nintendo's sale look stupid. At the moment though, Nintendo has some nice change in its pocket and Microsoft has only the (albeit superb) facilities at Twycross to show for the money.
Catchpenny
Member
Heh, it'll be a debate waged until Rare is folded or comes up with a huge hit for Microsoft. THERE MUST BE A WINNER
After playing MP2, I know Nintendo is just going to have them make another Metroid Prime game. But I would prefer that they get their own original game to design, even if it winds up being MP with a different setting and characters. I'm just surprised to see how well MP2 turned out. They fixed a lot of my criticisms of the original MP for a much more solid game (one of those sequels where they really don't innovate but improve everything) and I can't help but think they'd be able to produce a really good original game.Ironclad_Ninja said:
Ninja Scooter
Member
missAran said:
What you call an "oversight" i call foresight. It seems to me that Nintendo knew where Rare was headed and that is why they decided to part ways. From what we know now, it seems they made the right choice. I think Nintendo's mistake was not finding another developer to fill the gap not that this current Rare left, but the gap that Rare from the N64 days left.
Catchpenny
Member
^^^ Agreed. I hold out some hope that, since Retro has righted the ship and done well with the Prime games, Nintendo will let them slowly expand and give them more creative freedom.
Kobun Heat
Member
Rare USED to hurt Nintendo, now they're hurting Microsoft. The reason Nintendo decided to end their relationship was because Rare was representing a tinier and tinier fraction of their sales, and Nintendo could see that the road ahead was fraught with peril.
snapty00 said:
This thread should've stopped here.
Rare singlehandedly made N64 the console of choice for both shooter- and platformerfans. They provided at least three topselling games a year and they've proved theirselves capable of creating their own popular franchises.
I don't doubt Nintendo choice to sell their share in Rare. There's probably a very good reason for that. However, I do feel Nintendo didn't even try to fill Rare's place. They should've invested in other small, talented studios. And most importantly, they should've provided guidance for those studios, instead of forcing them to work on popular Nintendo franchise X.
Retro Studios probably was supposed to be the next Rare, and for all we may know, the could still be the Rare of the next-gen. But as long as they're only making Metroid games, Nintendo's never going to fully capatalize on their talent.
SFA isn't really indicative of what quality might be considering it was spectacularly mediocre and only developed by new employees and part of the DKR team.
Grabbed by the Ghoulies was pretty sub-standard for Rare, as well.
Kameo, I suspect, would have been received well by Nintendo fans considering its nature and allegedly being a good game.
I think, in the least, Rare's depature will eventually hurt Nintendo with the Conker franchise and Perfect Dark; maybe Banjo Kazooie 3, too. Just maybe not to the point where they'd regret selling them for so much money.
Overall, since Conker, there's been considerable internal strife and very slow/haphazard development. I still think there's a lot of talent left at Rare, but it's possible that their state is irreversible. Still, I think Rare will contribute much more and much better during the next generation.
Grabbed by the Ghoulies was pretty sub-standard for Rare, as well.
Kameo, I suspect, would have been received well by Nintendo fans considering its nature and allegedly being a good game.
I think, in the least, Rare's depature will eventually hurt Nintendo with the Conker franchise and Perfect Dark; maybe Banjo Kazooie 3, too. Just maybe not to the point where they'd regret selling them for so much money.
Overall, since Conker, there's been considerable internal strife and very slow/haphazard development. I still think there's a lot of talent left at Rare, but it's possible that their state is irreversible. Still, I think Rare will contribute much more and much better during the next generation.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Part of the problem with Rare now adays is that alot of the members and artists and programers that made Rare what it was during the N64 days have up and left
And personally I don't like the new "manga" look for PDZ, but I'm really interested in Conker as I loved the game on the N64
And personally I don't like the new "manga" look for PDZ, but I'm really interested in Conker as I loved the game on the N64
Shin Johnpv
Member
RC Pro Am did kick ass so did Battletoads
Rare's departure sure didn't hurt Nintendo, it hurt us gamers.
I would kill to play a good Rare game like Banjo Kazooie again, but maybe I'm just dreaming. Kameo looked good and done on Gamecube. As a gamer, I would've rather played Kameo on Gamecube next month and have Nintendo/Rare take a few losses than cut the whole production studio off and move shop to Xbox, only to release Grabbed by the Ghoulies. Conker's just not enough.
I would kill to play a good Rare game like Banjo Kazooie again, but maybe I'm just dreaming. Kameo looked good and done on Gamecube. As a gamer, I would've rather played Kameo on Gamecube next month and have Nintendo/Rare take a few losses than cut the whole production studio off and move shop to Xbox, only to release Grabbed by the Ghoulies. Conker's just not enough.