Shin Johnpv
Member
Prine said:
going by GbTG and their GBA output yes all the talent has left rare
Did Rare's departure hurt Nintendo?
- Thread starter missAran
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going by GbTG and their GBA output yes all the talent has left rare
Shin Johnpv
Member
M3wThr33 said:
TS2 is really the game they wanted to make, from what I understand the first TS was rushed to market and shipped alot sooner than it should have because Sony wanted the game for launch or close to it
I eagerly await TS3
soundwave05
Member
Actually Prine what I'm saying is the company seems to have lost creative direction after Martin Hollis left.
It's sorta like what happened to Disney after Jeffrey Katzenberg left. It's not like they lost their animators or anything right then, but their creative direction really became sloppy.
It's sorta like what happened to Disney after Jeffrey Katzenberg left. It's not like they lost their animators or anything right then, but their creative direction really became sloppy.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
It did hurt Nintendo. After Rare left you got the impressions of all these other dev houses had up and left Nintendo due to failure. Rare's void won't be felt, IMO, until next generation.
They've output 2 games this generation. The Banjo team put out GbtG. I'm thinking they probably went to work on another new franchise. Who knows. Kameo was 'delayed indefinitely'. I'm thinking, or hoping, that it was pushed to Xbox 2, but instead of announcing it like "Xbox is dead, Big game moved to Xbox 2", the Kameo team began work on the next game, and the graphic team will stay on Kameo and pretty it up some more for Xenon release.
The team previously working on Kameo would have then had at least 2 games on the Xenon. Banjo team will have an original IP for Microsoft, and who knows what the other RARE teams will have had planned.
They've output 2 games this generation. The Banjo team put out GbtG. I'm thinking they probably went to work on another new franchise. Who knows. Kameo was 'delayed indefinitely'. I'm thinking, or hoping, that it was pushed to Xbox 2, but instead of announcing it like "Xbox is dead, Big game moved to Xbox 2", the Kameo team began work on the next game, and the graphic team will stay on Kameo and pretty it up some more for Xenon release.
The team previously working on Kameo would have then had at least 2 games on the Xenon. Banjo team will have an original IP for Microsoft, and who knows what the other RARE teams will have had planned.
celestial body
Member
Prine: yes, Seavor is still there and working on conker, though i think he'll probably leave if he has to work on anything conker related again for the next 5 years....
Shin Johnpv
Member
Prine said:
well they didnt put out any GBA games till they went to MS
so how could their GBA output have always sucked?
MightyHedgehog wrote
"IMO, Nintendo commited a mistake that will live to haunt them in the next generation."
The biggest mistake Nintendo ever did was getting Sony into the videogame console industry and making themselves (Nintendo) look as the bad guy for not making the answer to the Sega CD.
Aside from that things could have been worse, Sony could have purchased those shares instead...
I feel that losing Rare was not a bad deal for Nintendo but they did make a mistake by not filling the void left over.
Microsoft, although GbtG was really a GC game on XBox will eventually benefit from the deal. Bungie so far has only released 2 games that I am aware of on XBox, unless they come up with a sequel to Oni or a new original game. Rare on the other hand will at least make 2 or 3 games for XBox unless XBox2 is really released in 2005.
I read somewhere that for a developer to really get into developing games on Dx8.0 the development times can be up to 2 years to learn how to implement all of the effects that the api provides. It would have been longer to make a game if they went the assembler route. So I would not be surprised if Rare all of a sudden has at least 2 or 3 games ready in one year for release on XBox or XBox2.
"IMO, Nintendo commited a mistake that will live to haunt them in the next generation."
The biggest mistake Nintendo ever did was getting Sony into the videogame console industry and making themselves (Nintendo) look as the bad guy for not making the answer to the Sega CD.
Aside from that things could have been worse, Sony could have purchased those shares instead...
I feel that losing Rare was not a bad deal for Nintendo but they did make a mistake by not filling the void left over.
Microsoft, although GbtG was really a GC game on XBox will eventually benefit from the deal. Bungie so far has only released 2 games that I am aware of on XBox, unless they come up with a sequel to Oni or a new original game. Rare on the other hand will at least make 2 or 3 games for XBox unless XBox2 is really released in 2005.
I read somewhere that for a developer to really get into developing games on Dx8.0 the development times can be up to 2 years to learn how to implement all of the effects that the api provides. It would have been longer to make a game if they went the assembler route. So I would not be surprised if Rare all of a sudden has at least 2 or 3 games ready in one year for release on XBox or XBox2.
Shin Johnpv
Member
bitwise said:
Rare is not the size of Capcom or Konami no wheres near being close to it
GBTG was done by the Banjo team which put out 2 decent games before that
Shin Johnpv
Member
bitwise said:
and before that they made some decent FPS's on the Mac and Halo was looking to go into the garbage bin as a RTS game and even as another Mac FPS before MS stepped in, if Halo was never made into an Xbox exclusive, with MS's hype behind it, no one would be talking about it right now, so if you want to call Bungie crap go right ahead I wont stop you
anyway
I'm sorry but Rare's overall quality has been on a decline for awhile now
I also don't buy this excuse that they have to get used to DX8 as to why they haven't released any games this gen
if they were having such a hard problem well shit, theyre mostly owned by MS the people who created DX 8, I'm sure MS would have no problem sending DX8 Guru's to their studios to help get games out
OR here's an even CRAZIER idea, higher some DX8 programmers
I just think that this "delay" in them releasing really anything meaningfull is a sign of bad times at Rare, I get the feeling that theres issues with upper management in Rare but that's just my opinion
considering Goldeneye (which actually WAS good but gets overrated a lot) got outdone by HL a couple years later and PD felt like some shitty Unreal wannabe, I don't think Rare has the talent to make an FPS on the level of Halo. We'll be lucky if PD0 is better than the best Timesplitters game, to be honest.gogogow said:
DIrtyWeasel
Member
I never really played too many Rare games on N64. The only one I purchased was Conker because I found it for $5. I rented and beat several others. I always felt Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were overrated.
I am looking forward to Conker Live & Reloaded. I quit playing Bad Fur Day because they announced it was being remade before I ever got around to finishing it.
I am looking forward to Conker Live & Reloaded. I quit playing Bad Fur Day because they announced it was being remade before I ever got around to finishing it.
Wait, what? Halo a RTS? Last i heard it originally (for PC and Mac) started as an action game (sorta like Oni) then moved into FPS and hailed as the next Marathon by many FPS fans (PC and Mac). It was pretty well hyped and that hype carried over when development was switched to Xbox.Shin Johnpv said:
What's up with console only gamers, it's like they're oblivious to games outside of their console of choice.
Duckhuntdog
Member
bitwise said:
That was Bungie San Jose, which was a start-up. Bungie Chicago was THE Bungie.
Duckhuntdog
Member
celestial body said:
But Hollis left midway through Perfect Dark as did David Doak and a few others. Which could explain why the final product never rocked as it should.
You give Tilston too much credit and from rumor, he is the one that keeps PDZ being late with his indecisivness. Botwood isn't bad, but he sure is no Hollis or Doak, the two main talents behind Goldeneye.
Agent X
Member
Jonnyboy117 said:
I agree with this.
It was an excellent move on Nintendo's part to dump Rare, who was an albatross around their neck (now around Microsoft's neck). They got a huge chunk of change in the process. But, that transaction really hasn't borne fruit yet for Nintendo, either.
It definitely didn't hurt Nintendo, but I don't know if it's exactly helped, either. It's up to Nintendo to determine their own destiny.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
Speevy said:
Are you serious? If so, you really haven't been paying much attention to DKJB graphics. Which would be surprising since its one of most anticipated titles. Watched the vids again and observe the fur shading on DK and the red eye Ape.
Warm Machine
Member
Kobun Heat said:
I agree with the math, just not the wisdom. N64 was long in the tooth when the Rare games stopped selling very well. As well, Conker especially represented a failure mostly due to their being no market for an M rated game about furry animals on a machine with a primarily younger audience.
Had Rare continued with Nintendo their games would likely have diversified the library especially if Perfect Dark was released for it.
Whenever one company buys another almost all of what is developed gets put into turnaround. New execs come in and start sticking their dicks in the projects. Shit that was once 50% complete becomes 20% complete because of meddling. I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of MS Rare titles is due more because of mismanagement on MS part than Rare themselves.
Die Squirrel Die
Member
Warm Machine said:
I think it's more a bit of both. On the one hand Rare have a reputation for delays and there's been way too much leaked stuff about incompetent management to not raise suspicions. On the other hand, MS do seem to have a bit of a problem in this area. Sudeki, Fable and Halo all delayed (wasn't Brute Force as well?) and BC and TFLO delayed so much they were canned, and then stuff like Tork and Psychonauts which they pulled out of publishing (after seemingly a long time in development, at least for Psychonauts). For producing first party titles on time MS's record isn't exactly glowing.
Shin Johnpv
Member
luxsol said:
Halo went through alot of phases
at one time it was a RTS game with tons of little master chief esq characters running around
it was also an action game at one point
not just a console gamer here junior mmmmmkay thanks
My point was that the game was definitely a hyped up game before it was bought up by MS, not some under-the-umbrella game you made it out to be.Shin Johnpv said:
Just found an image for a magazine in 1999 featuring Halo.
Ugly! But it shows how much was expected from this game (HYPE!).
Shin Johnpv
Member
luxsol said:
it really wasnt that hyped up not the same way it got once MS saw they had a hit on their hands
the game was in development for something like 5 years by the time it finally launched on the Xbox, I really think if MS didnt buy them and crack some whips it would have ended up in development hell like Duke Nukem Forever
Halo was only seriously hyped up AFTER (or rather, the review copies) it was released on Xbox, before it was a buggy mess (while under MS). The hype that it had before launch was mostly those following it from its PC/Mac stage, but a lot of people were disappointed by what was shown/demoed (E3 of launch year).Shin Johnpv said:
And that last paragraph... what? The game was shown in 1999 and a year later its development was switched to Xbox. They had about a year's time to redo the game for Xbox, so yeah.. there was a lot of whip cracking but because they basically started from scratch.
Shin Johnpv
Member
they started work on it before 1999
like it's been said the game went through alot of versions
FPS, action game, RTS, back to FPS that didnt happen in a matter of a year
anyway this isnt a thread about Halo and Bungie it's about Rare and weither they're still relevant to the market which IMHO I don't think they are
like it's been said the game went through alot of versions
FPS, action game, RTS, back to FPS that didnt happen in a matter of a year
anyway this isnt a thread about Halo and Bungie it's about Rare and weither they're still relevant to the market which IMHO I don't think they are
Do The Mario
Unconfirmed Member
Probably hurt Nintendo only because they needed a killer FPS game and It could have potentially came from rare!
Goldeneye was a major system seller last gen so Nintendo should of tried to get their hands on the equivalent this gen.
Goldeneye was a major system seller last gen so Nintendo should of tried to get their hands on the equivalent this gen.
You're right, it did start before 1999, but I imagine it would have been started with a tiny skeleton crew trying to think up the concept because they were too busy finishing up Myth 2. True development (before they were using Myth 2's engine) didn't start until 99, which was when they were switching between genres. By the time it was shown (in 99) they already decided it was a FPS.Shin Johnpv said:
Back on topic:
I'm wondering about Perfect Dark Zero... will people still care? It'll be 7 years since the first one came out.
Warm Machine
Member
luxsol said:
I think Perfect Dark came out in 2000
The Abominable Snowman
Member
I don't think it did. I have that issue buried somewhere and there were a few other very questionable games on that list. New Legends (A game on that list ranked alongside Halo, also switched from PC to Xbox and was kinda bad) didn't change gaming. Duke Forever hasn't changed gaming because it still isn't out. I can't remember the other games on that list at the moment but those two stick out in my mind.luxsol said:My point was that the game was definitely a hyped up game before it was bought up by MS, not some under-the-umbrella game you made it out to be.
Just found an image for a magazine in 1999 featuring Halo.
http://www.bungie.net/SlideShow.aspx?Path=/games/Halo&Slideshow=PreXbox&Slide=29
Ugly! But it shows how much was expected from this game (HYPE!).
MightyHedgehog
Member
Pre-XBOX, only Mac fans were really hyping Halo, IIRC. It wasn't really big until the game was out.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I agree with the point that, had Rare not left Nintendo for Microsoft, they WOULD have developed some good games. You can point your finger at Grabbed by the Ghoulies or whatever, but I think the shift to Microsoft is what made Rare lost focus. Had they stuck with Nintendo, I think it would have benefited both parties. Nintendo would be better off with Rare, and it would certainly be true the other way around.
The thing about Metal Gear Solid was that there was nothing else like it on the market. Perfect Dark Zero is a drop in the bucket considering how many other FPS there are on consoles now. So how much of an impact can a half decade old series make? I think a better analogy would be Metroid, which had a far longer time between sequels.gogogow said:
Shit, magazines are almost never right with these type of articles, but the fact is that this game was hyped before even being an Xbox game, enough to warrant a cover. Halo itself really wasn't all that when released either (compared to PC FPS) but it still generated hype after released.The Abominable Snowman said:
Mighty, a PC mag was covering Halo and named it "[BS-title-change-gaming-forever]" so PC gamers were seemingly hyping it as well. Can't really speak from experience because I'm tainted with my own Mac affection and others I talked to were too.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Regardless...Halo 1 never had the kind of hype behind it, as a console title, that other hyped titles have had. The hype it received pre-console, was lukewarm, IMO. When it was released on console, only then, did it start to gain momentum among gamers as a AAA title. Anyway, who cares...this is a Rare thread.
True about MG. About the FPS games, there aren't that many great FPS on consoles either.
How many FPS, esp. in this gen, that can be dubbed great? Halo, Metroid Prime and?
Maybe u can come up with another few. But i think there's enough room for others to enter the market.
------------------------------------
BTW,
Super Metroid 1994
9years
Metroid Fusion 2003
Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake 1990
8years
Metal Gear Solid 1998
Metroid didn't had a far longer time between sequels.
MightyHedgehog
Member
SantaCruZer said:
Nintendo didn't get that amount, IIRC. The Stamper bros. got a hefty portion to sell their stake to MS.
Prine said:True, an ex-tester over at ntsc-uk forum said their line up for xbox 2 will make every gamer smile.
e3 2k5
Heh. Sounds cool.
Metroid Prime isn't an FPS. =Pgogogow said:
And it doesn't matter if something is "great", because some FPS are just popular like anything from the Tom Clancy series. Then there's going to be high profile games like Doom 3 and Half Life 2 (hopefully moved to Xenon?) coming out. I know that there are others, but I don't follow console FPS much. If i include other consoles' popular FPS, then there are James Bond (if Rogue Agent sells well) games and Timesplitters.
Does the Perfect Dark title carry any weight outside of those who owned/played the N64 original? Enough to entice Xenon purchases even? ... and we'll find out at E3 or whenever MS shows off the Xenon to see if Rare can produce something that can be hyped about. That is if Rare even has it ready.
Shin Johnpv
Member
luxsol said:
I honestly don't think it does, I don't think people are going to go "OMG a NEW Perfect Dark game, I HAVE to get the console it's on." Maybe a very very tiny amount of people but nothing significant. I also think the change in art styles is going to hurt them, but that's just my opinion and I think the new look of her is ass, but that's me.
Rare leaving hurt in that Nintendo had one less developer on board, and they need games badly. Otherwise, Rare had fallen off since the N64 days. Even then, some of the stuff they made late in the game was subpar IMO. I love Rare since Killer Instinct, but bought a GC well after they'd jumped ship, and I don't miss them at all. The least they could do is make KI3 to win back some of the fans they lost (like me). Oh, but Goldeneye is still perfection. Thank you Rare. 
PEACE.
PEACE.Shin Johnpv
Member
Pimpwerx said:Rare leaving hurt in that Nintendo had one less developer on board, and they need games badly. Otherwise, Rare had fallen off since the N64 days. Even then, some of the stuff they made late in the game was subpar IMO. I love Rare since Killer Instinct, but bought a GC well after they'd jumped ship, and I don't miss them at all. The least they could do is make KI3 to win back some of the fans they lost (like me). Oh, but Goldeneye is still perfection. Thank you Rare.
I really want a KI3 but I just KNOW that if or when they do make it they're going to go full on 3D with it, and personally I DESPISE 3D fighters, cept the soul series only one I can get into for some reason but even that not so much. Seriously when they finally make a KI3 (cause they keep hinting about it) if they make it full on 3D and dont do high res pre-rendered sprites, Rare will for ever be dead to me. DEAD TO ME!!!!!
couple things. Being a huge myth fan I remember the big hype for halo for PC gamers. It was on everybodies(magazines and internet sites) top 10 list, and ussually in the top 3 for future releases. Now I know that doesnt translate into console hype, especially back then when the platforms were even more divided(less cross platform games). But bungie was starting to get a name because of the critics and moderate successes of there games like myth and marathon.
Oni was made by a satellite studio, the main studio run by jason jones was working on halo.
PD zero does not have to be a halo and probably will not be. It needs to sell well, and has a reasonable chance of doing so. The setup for it is looking good, xbox is gaining momentum here in the US, its giving sony a run for its money, and its distancing itself from nintendo. If they can keep this momentum uptil nextbox, especially if conker can become a hit and critically well recieved, and if PD0 is quality and above anything thats out there graphically, good gameplay, launch title without any competition from any other next generation games it could do very well.
Lots of ifs though, things need to be done right by MS and rare, they dont need another halo, but something that is above what everybody else is doing to showcase the hardware advantage. Gameplay doesnt need to be revolutionary, I dont think there is anything revolutionary in a long time, but an evolutionary positive gameplay addition could push this title into the big time.
Oni was made by a satellite studio, the main studio run by jason jones was working on halo.
PD zero does not have to be a halo and probably will not be. It needs to sell well, and has a reasonable chance of doing so. The setup for it is looking good, xbox is gaining momentum here in the US, its giving sony a run for its money, and its distancing itself from nintendo. If they can keep this momentum uptil nextbox, especially if conker can become a hit and critically well recieved, and if PD0 is quality and above anything thats out there graphically, good gameplay, launch title without any competition from any other next generation games it could do very well.
Lots of ifs though, things need to be done right by MS and rare, they dont need another halo, but something that is above what everybody else is doing to showcase the hardware advantage. Gameplay doesnt need to be revolutionary, I dont think there is anything revolutionary in a long time, but an evolutionary positive gameplay addition could push this title into the big time.