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Alan Wake 2 is most of the most technologically impressive video games on the market today, so its transition onto PlayStation 5 Pro should be a match made in heaven, right? Oliver Mackenzie and Alex Battaglia shares notes on their experience with the new version of the game, highlighting the strengths and weaknesses of the upgrade, along with PC upscaler and ray tracing comparisons.

00:00 Introduction
00:32 Sponsored by MSI QD-OLED
01:10 Quality mode comparisons
11:14 Performance mode comparisons
19:33 PSSR vs DLSS
29:34 PS5 Pro RT vs. PC RT
41:51 Conclusion

 

[Gaiff]

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/digi...pro-vs-ps5-pssr-vs-dlss-pro-rt-vs-pc.1677408/

 

[adamsapple]

Alan Wake 2: how does PS5 Pro handle one of the best-looking games of this generation?

Alan Wake 2 is most of the most technologically impressive video games, so the PS5 Pro version should impress, right? Alex + Oliver discuss PS5 Pro vs PS5.

www.eurogamer.net

Alan Wake 2 also uses the PSSR upscaler on PS5 Pro, which we'd expect to improve image quality. The original PS5 release uses FSR 2 with a base res of 1270p, while the PS5 Pro release is actually slightly lower at 1224p internally. We generally consider PSSR to be a better upscaler than FSR 2, but the result here is mixed at best. There's more image instability with PS5 Pro in still shots and it almost looks like a film grain is overlaying the image, though film grain and other post-processing effects were disabled in the menu before testing.

In motion, PSR does look better overall, with fewer disocclusion artefacts and better handling of fine detail, such as Saga's hair. However, it also struggles with some elements that FSR 2 handles well, such as the rendering of thin power lines while walking forward. We don't normally recommend this, but it's worth disabling motion blur in the quality mode on PS5 Pro, as this seems to result in extra aliasing during camera movement.

Moving onto the 60fps performance mode, this mode had a noticeably soft resolve on the base PS5 with an internal resolution of 847p at its lowest. This isn't majorly improved on PS5 Pro through the use of PSSR upscaling, with a similar 864p internal resolution and similar blurry results. As before, image instability is an issue while stationary, though disocclusion artefacts are less obvious in motion. The good news is that settings have been bumped up to around the level of the old quality mode, including foliage density, volumetric lighting resolution and shadow rendering at distance.

In terms of frame-rates, the original performance mode ran at 55-60fps in forested areas and was generally 60fps elsewhere. The game actually runs worse on PS5 Pro, generally being ~3fps slower in forested scenes, though it remains above the 48fps threshold that determines whether VRR displays are able to gracefully handle the drop below 60fps.

We set up an RTX 4070 PC with a custom 864p resolution and the ultra performance scaling mode preset using the Nvidia Profile Inspector utility. Here, both upscalers struggled with the low internal resolution, but DLSS was more temporally stable and better rendered subpixel detail, such as the links in a distant chain link fence. This is more obvious when the camera is still, with more jitter or film grain like artefacts on the PSSR image, but in motion DLSS also does better in terms of aliasing and flicker. Some on-screen effects like SSAO, volumetrics or SSR, also appear more unstable in PSSR than in DLSS or even FSR 2.

For example, reflections in puddles are visible when first taking control of Saga in the PC version, even on its lowest RT setting, while these are missing on PS5 Pro as the BVH has been made smaller. However, while the BVH lacks some elements, eg distant trees, the height map - the terrain of the area - is always included and therefore shows up in reflections even far away. The update rate for the BVH is also halved, which helps keep performance higher in the heavy forest scenes.

Alan Wake 2 on PS5 Pro is one of the most interesting releases for the system thus far, as it delivers exactly what we expected from the premium Sony machine in some areas, like the inclusion of RT features, but falls behind in others, like image quality. It's still early days for both PS5 Pro and this particular release, and I hope that we'll see both continue to improve over time.

SlimySnake another example of the cost of PSSR, the Performance Mode actually runs a few frames worse on Pro compared to the OG PS5.

Also surprising to see them mention that some effects like SSAO, Volumetric etc are actually a bit more unstable with PSSR than even FSR2.

 

[Mister Wolf]

What we've been waiting for.

 

[onQ123]

What about PS5 Pro vs Xbox Series X?

 

[Bojji]

Imagine my shock that 800p don't scale well to 4k...

 

[Mister Wolf]

Imagine my shock that 800p don't scale well to 4k...

Yeah we all knew this was coming. The Pro looks kinda weak not being able to increase the input resolution.

 

[adamsapple]

What about PS5 Pro vs Xbox Series X?

So .. ironically enough, the SX is still the best running version. PS5 Pro's performance mode is a few frames slower than OG PS5, which was slower than SX in-turn.

 

[Gaiff]

Oof, nah. This is a bad Pro conversion that's worse than I thought. Those RT reflections are so grainy and noisy that they often look worse than SSR. Performance Mode runs worse than the OG PS5. Remedy needs to go back to the drawing board for that one.

 

[Senua]

Imagine my shock that 800p don't scale well to 4k...

Yea 1080p is the minimum you wana drop to really. Still better than FSR2 though

 

[HogIsland]

geez, the pssr shimmer in Alan Wake 2 makes me nostalgic for PS1 polygon jitter. I'd rather play on 1440p without pssr if that's how it looks.

 

[HogIsland]

Imagine my shock that 800p don't scale well to 4k...

the comparison with pc is 864p.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Man. They really messed this one up.

 

[Kenneth Haight]

Maybe Remedy will optimize once they’ve made their money back in 2 years

/S

This is disappointing, still going to play through as I love the first and was holding off for this on Pro anyway.

 

[winjer]

Remedy really dropped the ball while implementing PSSR.
How did they manage to make it sook worse than FSR2.

 

[Radical_3d]

Imagine my shock that 800p don't scale well to 4k...

At least is not FSR2. But its quality mode for me.

 

[Kacho]

Doesn’t Silent Hill 2 have the same problem?

 

[winjer]

SlimySnake another example of the cost of PSSR, the Performance Mode actually runs a few frames worse on Pro compared to the OG PS5.

Also surprising to see them mention that some effects like SSAO, Volumetric etc are actually a bit more unstable with PSSR than even FSR2.

Probably not the PSSR.
The Pro seems to be using a similar resolution, but it's using higher quality assets and LoDs.
This is probably the cause for the performance regression in some scenes.

 

[Luipadre]

I started a replay on Pro and other than the framerate issues, it looks much better than regular performance mode imo. Image is sharper too.

 

[Salz01]

I still think Remedy is overrated. They have never been able to pull off a good stable, smooth experience on consoles. I don’t think it PSSR, I think it’s the dev.

 

[Pedro Motta]

Remedy needs to drop DX12 and program to the metal on PS5/Pro.

 

[Kaiserstark]

• Visual Improvements on PS5 Pro:
  • Enhanced ray-traced reflections, particularly on water, glass, and other reflective surfaces, significantly improve the visual fidelity over the PS5 version .
  • New shadow filtering and upgraded visual settings, such as increased foliage density and volumetric lighting, enhance realism .
• Challenges with Ray Tracing:
  • Ray-traced reflections on PS5 Pro face occasional noise issues, particularly on specific textures like wood paneling and glass.
  • Remedy has optimized ray tracing for the PS5 Pro by adjusting update rates and reducing complexity, especially in dense forest scenes.
• Comparison of Upscaling Technologies:
  • PSSR (PlayStation Shader-Based Super Resolution) improves over FSR but lags behind NVIDIA DLSS in stability and image sharpness during motion.
  • In performance mode, upscaling struggles to maintain clarity, especially at lower resolutions (22:04).
• Image Quality Modes:
  • Quality mode delivers better reflections and lighting but remains at 30 FPS, which may not appeal to some players (03:14, 16:26).
  • Performance mode sacrifices visual detail to maintain higher frame rates but encounters issues with ambient occlusion and image instability.
• Comparison with PC Version:
  • PS5 Pro settings do not match any single PC preset but are a hybrid designed for console optimization, with compromises in ray tracing and reflection fidelity.
  • DLSS on PC provides a sharper and more stable image compared to PSSR on PS5 Pro, showcasing the potential of advanced upscaling technologies.
• Hardware Observations:
  • The PS5 Pro delivers meaningful visual upgrades but doesn't consistently outperform expectations relative to its specifications, particularly in demanding scenarios.
• Conclusion and Performance Insights:
  • While the PS5 Pro improves upon the original PS5 version in specific visual areas, it does not offer a uniformly superior experience across all aspects, especially when compared to PC capabilities.

 

[winjer]

Remedy needs to drop DX12 and program to the metal on PS5/Pro.

There is no DX12 on the PS5 and Pro.
They use GNM and GNMX.

 

[Gaiff]

I still think Remedy is overrated. They have never been able to pull off a good stable, smooth experience on consoles. I don’t think it PSSR, I think it’s the dev.

On consoles, yeah, they don't do a great job. Their titles like Quantum Break, Control, and Alan Wake 2 are all lookers, but you can tell they're meant to leverage high-end PC hardware and just downscale them to consoles where they just fall apart.

 

[hlm666]

Remedy really dropped the ball while implementing PSSR.
How did they manage to make it sook worse than FSR2.

They mention using the dlss profile for greater than 2 times scaling or something, maybe sony only have 1 profile currently? Not sure we should throw remedy under the bus when sh2 also has some issue with pssr and thats probably another sub 1080p upscale?

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Quality 1296p and fsr2 appears "substantialy more stable" than pssr x_X

 

[tommib]

I started a replay on Pro and other than the framerate issues, it looks much better than regular performance mode imo. Image is sharper too.

Performance mode is night and day compared to vanilla PS5. I played the full new DLC without noticing drops, only the much better image quality and general effects. VRR might’ve saved the day here. I played it originally in quality mode but the pro performance mode is up there now in image fidelity.

Anyway, we’re discussing resolutions in the timeline of upscalers and it makes no sense. DF made a whole video affirming they would drop resolution counts but here we are. The war never changes.

 

[Pedro Motta]

There is no DX12 on the PS5 and Pro.
They use GNM and GNMX.

Yes I know, but their engine is optimized for DX12, clearly not enough on GNM/GNMX.

EDIT: Yes, my wording was confusing, sorry.

 

[RagnarokIV]

Anyway, we’re discussing resolutions in the timeline of upscalers and it makes no sense. DF made a whole video affirming they would drop resolution counts but here we are. The war never changes.

They've flip flopped on this a few times now. We're in the 'post resolution' age and then the following week it's all about pixel counts.

 

[adamsapple]

Quality 1296p and fsr2 appears "substantialy more stable" than pssr x_X

Yeah, the FSR2 being more stable part was pretty surprising. This seems like a rare example.

This is more obvious when the camera is still, with more jitter or film grain like artefacts on the PSSR image, but in motion DLSS also does better in terms of aliasing and flicker. Some on-screen effects like SSAO, volumetrics or SSR, also appear more unstable in PSSR than in DLSS or even FSR 2.

 

[keefged4]

PlayStation Shimmer Super Resolution lol

 

[bundylove]

I Play at 30 as its a slow game and stable enough on my tv. Feel bas for oled users.

 

[Gaiff]

They've flip flopped on this a few times now. We're in the 'post resolution' age and then the following week it's all about pixel counts.

They messed up either way. We are in a post-resolution age of sorts, but only when the base resolution is high enough that the pixel count doesn't matter. PSSR upscaling from 1440p>4K has advantages over native 4K and runs better, so for that, yes, we can ignore pixel count.

When we fall below 1080p though, there's no way around it. Even DLSS cannot save us. In this instance, pixel count and internal resolution matter.

 

[mansoor1980]

what a mess
needs more remedies

 

[Insane Metal]

Oof. This is terrible

 

[winjer]

They mention using the dlss profile for greater than 2 times scaling or something, maybe sony only have 1 profile currently? Not sure we should throw remedy under the bus when sh2 also has some issue with pssr and thats probably another sub 1080p upscale?

I think he is talking about the presents models that DLSS has. These are just models that have tradeoffs regarding image clarity vs sharpness vs artifacts, motion clarity, etc.
Usually gamers can pick what present to use, by modding the game. And it's usually a matter of personal preference and at what resolution people play.

• Preset A: Intended for Performance/Balanced/Quality modes.
• Preset B: Intended for Ultra Performance mode.
• Preset C: Intended for Performance/Balanced/Quality modes.
• Preset D: Intended for Performance/Balanced/Quality modes.
• Preset E: The now-default preset for Performance/Balanced/Quality modes.
• Preset F: The now-default preset for Ultra Performance and DLAA modes.

But with DLSS 3.8.10, DLSS only has presents E and F.

 

[Fbh]

Seems like a pretty underwhelming upgrade.
I guess Remedy won't be getting a whole bunch of new sales from new Pro users.

Imagine my shock that 800p don't scale well to 4k...

And yet we constantly get people saying me should stop focusing on the native resolution "because upscaling makes it irrelevant" or something like that
Which simply isn't true. Yes, it might help make sub 1080p games look better then they did 10 years ago, but it's still not going to give you good image quality, specially in motion.

 

[Edellus]

Man, this is really disappointing. Alan Wake 2 is one of the main games I've been withholding myself from playing in hopes of a much better first experience on PS5 Pro. I'm not finding even quality mode sufficient given the aliasing issues that only seem to be fixed when disabling motion blur, and I find a 30fps mode without motion blur too much of a compromise.

I really hope they can fix it. But for now, I guess I'll keep waiting.

 

[Radical_3d]

I skipped half of the video since it’s just like Senua or any other of the usual suspects entering a PSPro thread and saying “may I interest you in a PC?” Not surprised since the video starts with a close up to Batalla’s face.

 

[shamoomoo]

So .. ironically enough, the SX is still the best running version. PS5 Pro's performance mode is a few frames slower than OG PS5, which was slower than SX in-turn.

True,but the Pro's base version is more like the quality mode on the PS5 so the base Pro version is slightly heavier to run.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

It's a bad patch that needs work

 

[Gaiff]

43% faster on PC when using a 4070. The RTX 3070 is 10% faster. I think this is really a worst-case scenario for the Pro.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I need to take the RTX 4070 out of my PC, give it a dusting and a hug and put it back with an "I love you".

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I still think Remedy is overrated. They have never been able to pull off a good stable, smooth experience on consoles. I don’t think it PSSR, I think it’s the dev.

Yep just look at HFW on Pro in comparison.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

The Switch 2 version of this game is going to be a DF thread like no other lol.

 

[Pedro Motta]

43% faster on PC when using a 4070. The RTX 3070 is 10% faster. I think this is really a worst-case scenario for the Pro.

Like I said, clearly VERY unoptimized on Sony hardware.

 

[yogaflame]

Well, I hope the developer will send a new update especially the frame rate on RT mode, to at least make it 50 fps, since PSSR ML is a machine learning and just continue to improve how it handles games as time marches. I'm sure they will send a new patch soon as the remedy learns how to handle ps5 pro.

 

[Kaiserstark]

43% faster on PC when using a 4070. The RTX 3070 is 10% faster. I think this is really a worst-case scenario for the Pro.

It would be interesting to know the results we obtain with a GPU close to that of the Pro like the RX 6800 on PC with Alan Wake 2. To see if we get such a big difference.

 

[Kupfer]

I Play at 30 as its a slow game and stable enough on my tv. Feel bas for oled users.

What does OLED have to do with it?

 

[Xtib81]

That's a very poor upgrade. I bet Remedy didn't bother and called it 'pro enhanced'.. My ass!