Yeah I agree with you entirely. I don't know whether to keep playing or wait for a patch. It is kind of ruining my first impression of the game.
Digital Foundry: Bloodborne Performance Analysis
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
Yeah I agree with you entirely. I don't know whether to keep playing or wait for a patch. It is kind of ruining my first impression of the game.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
No, it has nothing to do with engine load. It's simply a framecap/frame ordering bug. The game delivers 30 unique frames, as it should - it's just that they are not spaced the way they should.
Frame pacing is relatively far "upstream" since it means the game is probably rendering everything on time and there's just some kink in how things are being sent to the display. I'd hope it would be a fairly easy fix if people bring it to From's attention.
This is the official Twitter account for the game and it's made some tweets in English.
I've also heard that From has replied to English emails in the past.
Also when Mario kart was literally torn apart for its one double frame at 60fps lol.
Haint
Member
Not a very good performance and it would be nice if they can fix this framejumping to some extent, but it will not stop me from enjoying this at all. And graphically it looks good. From a technical point of view it looks good enough to make that great artstyle stand out and bring the world to life.
MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
Do you mean the framerate is making the game unplayable?
Silly comment this is, performance always influences a part of the experience. MH4U is my GOAT but I won't deny the frame rate hiccups lessen some of the enjoyment.
Anyway, it looked better than the other soul games on Twitch. Since I'm planning to only watch playthroughs it's fine with me.
Auto-Reply
Member
There is also a good amount of anti alaising in the promo shots + it looks sharper in general.
Downscaled to 720p, image quality wise the game could pass as a WiiU game if it werent for the densitiy in the geometry.
Not unplayable but it's one of the things that is annoying me quite a bit. You'd think that with From's recent success that they could get some decent programmers on board, especially with Sony helping with this game..
He's talking about frame pacing, which isn't identical to frame rate. The game holds 30 fps pretty well according to DF, but the frames it's outputting aren't in the correct timing so it creates the impression of skipping or stuttering. (One frame may stay on screen longer than it's supposed to, while another doesn't stay as long as it's supposed to)
MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
On a technical side do you think the game is too demanding and the PS4 is struggling to hold a stable frame rate?
Thanks for the observation
great, so this is what i was waiting to play on the ps4? i was going in to this game basically blind just based off of the hype from gaf. ultimately ill judge the performance myself after i pick it up later on today. but being primarily a pc gamer im a little more sensitive to poor performance.
Jacksinthe
Banned
TTF entirely depends on what is needed to be calculated per frame and how much is going on. Perhaps the arc a projectile takes is calculated in full in a single frame causing a longer frame instead of only calculating the next physics step of the next frame for positioning and since done every frame, is more consistent. Using the former method that would mean there are no more calculations for that projectile until impact meaning more frame time for other things AFTER the initial calculation but incurring a higher frame time that frame. So you can have a frame spat out at 36ms while the next is completed in 28ms.
Load has everything to do with it as does script ordering. Most of us will use dead space before a frame time is hit to do other things to maximize CPU use, the old Naughty Dog glass with stone, sand and water analogy.
At least I look for those moments of freedom to optimize. Sometimes it can be simple ordering to fix an issue or spreading a process across several frames instead of one - depending on the application and its needs.
jim2point0
Banned
The gameplay shots have a ton of aliasing that you don't see in the promo shots because they're downsampled (hense the lack of aliasing and overall sharpness). The actual game uses some eye-searing chromatic aberration and probably some weak post process AA which are both adding some blur (another reason why they don't look as sharp as the promo shots).
You should never expect to see the same image quality in the final game as you do in the promo shots. Other than that, though, I think it looks on par with all the videos we've seen prior to the game launching.
LOL no
This game basically looks like an average PS3 game in 1080p. Seems like the PS4 could do 60fps easy on it compared to other games I've played but I know From has a history of a lack of technical proficiency.
Eh, you'd be surprised. Blizzard didn't identify a similar issue with the PS4 version of Diablo III until DF brought it to their attention.
gaming_noob
Member
Was the X360 version of DSII 60fps? That game made me feel nauseated while playing. Bloodborne is giving me similar headaches. Is this the cause of framerate?
Those look like they might be supersampled, too. Aliasing looks a lot worse in direct shots I'm seeing.
Dictator93
Member
discrete... as in different (there are tons of repeats in 1 second in BB)? Because if you just mean individual frames... than you are painting with a rather broad brush.
That is because they are super sampled!
I have to agree with this.
It looks worse than The Last of Us on PS4, which runs at 60fps.
There has to be PS4 horsepower to spare when running Bloodborne.
Xbox 360 version of Dark Souls II had an unlocked framerate with tearing. It could drop pretty badly in some places, go as high as 50-60 in very simple indoor areas, and it averaged a little over 30 FPS overall.
jim2point0
Banned
Standard industry practice. Happens with just about every console game.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
There was a good explanation of the frame pacing issue for destiny, does anybody have the post of that ? Really forgot what that really was.
Uh, discrete as in 30 different, unique frames per second. It's displaying 30 frames in one second, but some of the frames are up longer than they should be and some are up shorter than they should be. It's still 30 frames per second though.
This is one of the few games where it's really bad too. I really don't know why devs keep using it. People either hate it or don't notice it, which is still a net negative.
MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
Thanks I am still getting the game this evening and haven't played yet. I hope the issue can be fixed I also would rather wait to fully enjoy the game instead of being annoyed
gaming_noob
Member
Thanks. Can't play DSII because of it.
I can handle frame dips when they are predictable (like in Blight Town) but I really cant handle the ridiculous amounts of CA this game has. I posted last night that I actually had to stop playing because my eyes started hurting from the lack of clarity on the edges of the screen. It's everywhere and it's really not subtle at all yet we have people here on GAF who apparently cant even see the effect being used.
Hopefully enough people make enough noise and we can turn it off like we could in Lords of the Fallen.
I wonder if they didn't add it in an effort to hide a lot of the aliasing and shimmering in the periphery where it might be distracting?
Dictator93
Member
??
It is 30 frames per second, as in the game draws 30 frames. But they are definitely not discrete / different.
This isn't even like a scenario where each frame is individual / different, / but unevenly paced. This is similar to framedoubling by vsync.
That's my best guess as well. Didn't work here though.
Expected this sort of thing, not sure what From's deal is with framerate. Like, why not just hire someone who knows what the fuck they're doing?
Framerate is literally the only thing I can ever bitch about in their games, doesn't matter if it's Souls or Armored Core, it's always the framerate. Get a grip already!
Love hurts..
Framerate is literally the only thing I can ever bitch about in their games, doesn't matter if it's Souls or Armored Core, it's always the framerate. Get a grip already!
Love hurts..
I think what you're not understanding here is the difference in performance between the two games. You can't throw them both under the "performance problems" umbrella without discussing just how much worse Assassin's Creed Unity actually is. The lowest reported frame-rate we have from Bloodborne so far (24 fps - something rather uncommon during gameplay) is faster than the typical average frame-rate of Assassin's Creed Unity. ACU spends a HUGE amount of time *UNDER* 25 fps. It is consistently choppy in a huge number of its scenarios.
Bloodborne basically holds ~30fps where fluidity is compromised by a bug. It is annoying and it does disrupt the fluidity but it is not even remotely in the same ballpark as the damn near unplayable ACU (especially on PS4).
Bloodborne actually runs SMOOTHER than previous Souls games on console, when you get right down to it, especially the insanely jittery Dark Souls 2.
I also think that situation was a bit different (though blown out of proportion) and it centers on expectations. People expect Nintendo to deliver a certain level of performance with certain series. Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Super Mario games, etc are all 60fps experiences. Nobody expected the issue in Mario Kart 8 to appear and it took us all by surprise. It was an unexpected problem which is why I think people flipped out.
Like it or not, since last generation, FROM Software has struggled to put out games with smooth frame-rates. None of the Souls games ran all that well but they were still much smoother than the Armored Core series, for instance. Ninja Blade was also a huge mess on 360. That's how they roll. It sucks, but it's expected and people were able to enjoy the games regardless. Expectations are the key element here.
ACU was shit on so heavily for a few reasons, I think
1) The frame-rate was really really bad - possibly the worst we'd seen on current generation consoles, really. Something like Daylight might actually be worse but for a AAA release it was just awful.
2) It ran better on Xbox One. This was the real kicker and the thing that triggered the shit storm.
3) The game itself was just a buggy, broken mess.
4) UbiSoft had been slowly pissing people off with downgrades, Uplay, and DLC nonsense not to mention the huge number of tower climbing simulators.
Summer Haze
Banned
You have to take into consideration how dense and geometrically complex most of the environments are. I reckon that would be one of the main reasons why this title doesn't run at 60fps.
But that's a complete guess...
How I wish they would stop it. That way we might see more developers (and publishers) care about IQ rather than munge some crappy fxaa solution and call it a day.
MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
I know where you coming from but isn't Unity way more demanding than Bloodborne in technical terms?
About what I expected. Hopefully they reduce the load times and sort out the frame stuttering. Also would like an option to turn off or reduce the CA or whatever it is adding that weird warp to the image. I didn't mind it in other games like The Order, Destiny etc, but here it seems slightly more obtuse and unnecessarily exaggerated.
No, you are misunderstanding. 60hz means refreshing 60 times every second. Which means for 30fps it SHOULD display every frame twice. Each frame should be repeated once, so it should look something like:
11.22.33.44.55.66.77.88.99
But instead what's happening is something like
11.23.33.44.56.66.77.89.99
You can see 9 discrete frames still occur in each case, but they are not on screen for the same duration. So you will encounter a refresh where frames 2 and 3 display back to back, and then 3 repeats twice more.
30 unique frames are displaying, but some are repeating for more refresh cycles than they should, and some are not displaying for as many refresh cycles as they should. It is still showing 30 frames per second.