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[Skifi28]

But i heard this cpu is fine by console players, enough for all games to reach 60fps? This CPU is slightly better than what PS5 pro has, so is it ok or not? Make up your mind.

It's fine for console where this specific CPU is being targeted, there is no OS bloat, no shader compilation and there exists dedicated hardware to off-load tasks from it. None of those exists on PC and you're just making a crappy build to score brownie point here. Targeting console specs using ancient parts is just a bad way to build a PC period. You wouldn't recommend that build to a close friend.

 

[Gaiff]

For Ratchet:



Higher quality RT reflections. On the other hand PSSR is less dithered on the fur compared to DLSS.

Here we have RT shadows on PC and standard shadow maps on Pro, also less crowd in the distance.

I have no idea if this is DLAA or some other DLSS setting (or dynamic res).

This has to be DLAA. The image is a lot better than that of PSSR. Not just the parts you highlighted but Ratchet's entire body looks cleaner, the fur strands on his tail are more defined, and the reflections on PC are of much higher quality...I mean, look at the floor where that Goon-4-Less enemy is standing. It looks like a blur on the Pro (AF 4x?). The grass looks way better and so on.

Edit: Maybe it's 4K DLSS Quality. Oliver repeatedly says DLSS and mentions they need more data to compare.

 

[DenchDeckard]

This has to be DLAA. The image is a lot better than PSSR there. Not just the parts you highlighted but Ratchet's entire body looks cleaner, the fur strands on his tail are more defined, and the reflections on PC are of much higher quality...I mean, look at the floor where that Goon-4-Less enemy is standing. It looks like a blur on the Pro (AF 4x?). The grass looks way better and so on.

We really shouldnt be comparing a PS5 pro to a 4090 or even High mid PC. I know people want to, but when you get down to the fine details. Which peoplea re doing with PS5 pro. zooming in etc. PC is going to run away with the performance and IQ lead.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

OMG, it's like night and day!!!!!

Spoiler

When the best looking game is still probably something that released in 2018...we just need to admit graphics are not going the be the biggest increment going forward.

Even when PS6 releases, we're getting longer cross gen periods as well. Those fully exclusive games are done even if they don't release on PC.

I'll be buying a PS5 pro but you can bet your ass i'm not upgrading to a PS6 day one if it releases close to 800€ here in europe

 

[Gaiff]

We really shouldnt be comparing a PS5 pro to a 4090 or even High mid PC. I know people want to, but when you get down to the fine details. Which peoplea re doing with PS5 pro. zooming in etc. PC is going to run away with the performance and IQ lead.

This might be 4K DLAA vs Performance Mode PSSR which upscales from 1440-1800p. Kind of a silly comparison if the objective is to compare DLSS with PSSR.

 

[Bojji]

It's fine for console where this specific CPU is being targeted, there is no OS bloat, no shader compilation and there exists dedicated hardware to off-load tasks from it. None of those exists on PC and you're just making a crappy build to score brownie point here. Targeting console specs using ancient parts is just a bad way to build a PC period. You wouldn't recommend that build to a close friend.

Any proof to console outperforming 3600? In theory everything you said is true but in practice we rarely see any of it in action.

This is completely CPU limited scenario ^

This has to be DLAA. The image is a lot better than PSSR there. Not just the parts you highlighted but Ratchet's entire body looks cleaner, the fur strands on his tail are more defined, and the reflections on PC are of much higher quality...I mean, look at the floor where that Goon-4-Less enemy is standing. It looks like a blur on the Pro (AF 4x?). The grass looks way better and so on.

I think I prefer softer fur of PSSR, but yeah AF difference is apparent as well.

If fucks me up, I have x16 forced in control panel of the driver since at least 2009 but here we are in 2024 on a console that has almost 600GB/s of memory bandwidth AF is still a problem...

 

[Ashamam]

That PC would be perfectly fine, CPU even comes with a cooler. Everything has low Wattage so temperatures should be under control.

Should be sure, but guaranteed to be? Point being some of the risk transfers. Look all I'm pointing out is there is a difference between a parts list and hobbyist spending their time putting it all together and an engineered solution that comes with a holistic warranty. The better comparison is going to be with a prebuilt.

 

[Skifi28]

Any proof to console outperforming 3600? In theory everything you said is true but in practice we rarely see any of it in action.

Just watch the latest DF video where Dragons Dogma 2 is doing 50+ FPS in the city. My 11600 just dies at the same spot the video is showing. I'm not even talking about just performance though, you'll get so much stuttering on a 3600 in modern games at the spots where it's also loading data and decompressing, you'll be stuck waiting 15min+ on shader compilation screens. Hell, just downloading from steam at high speeds will occupy a big % of your CPU as it's also decompressing. There's much more to a CPU than a framerate graph. PC gaming is just a whole different beast and it's not a good idea to get a crappy CPU on a dead socket just to match a console's price point. You'll just be doing a disservice to yourself (or whoever this builds is for) and you're just speeding up how fast you'll be spending even more money to upgrade to get away from a bad PC gaming experience.

 

[Physiognomonics]

We really shouldnt be comparing a PS5 pro to a 4090 or even High mid PC. I know people want to, but when you get down to the fine details. Which peoplea re doing with PS5 pro. zooming in etc. PC is going to run away with the performance and IQ lead.

Them comparing PSSR vs 4090 + DLAA just shows how good PSSR is. But I am sure others will do more interesting comparisons using 4070 and DLSS quality.

 

[Vick]

Because you play your games at still frames and with 10x zoom?

You need to play still frames at 10x zoom to notice additional ray traced reflections, ray traced AO, better shadows, increased draw distance and the likes?

Even the IQ improvement is extremely noticeable from an optimal viewing distance when you play on a top gamma calibrated panel, and that alone would be worth it for some users.

It's obviously not a product for everyone, but nor is intented to be. And for me, yes, the generational-like improvements shown in games like F1 are obviously legit absurd for a simple mid-gen release. As are this kind of promised improvements:

For instance, compared to the base PS5 version, you'll notice more realistic clouds and atmospheric effects, improved depth of field, an extended draw distance for foliage, advanced skin and hair shaders, and numerous other enhancements that make the experience even more breathtaking.

For those who don't notice/care for such things, base PS5 isn't going anywhere.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Ah, BG3 Act 3, just play it on GeForce Now.

 

[Bojji]

Should be sure, but guaranteed to be? Point being some of the risk transfers. Look all I'm pointing out is there is a difference between a parts list and hobbyist spending their time putting it all together and an engineered solution that comes with a holistic warranty. The better comparison is going to be with a prebuilt.

You can order it in parts to BIY or they will build it for you for 299PLN (~78$). You have warranty for both parts (2 years) and the whole build (2 years).

Just watch the latest DF video where Dragons Dogma 2 is doing 50+ FPS in the city. My 11600 just dies at the same spot the video is showing. I'm not even talking about just performance though, you'll get so much stuttering on a 3600 in modern games at the spots where it's also loading data and decompressing, you'll be stuck waiting 15min+ on shader compilation screens. Hell, just downloading from steam at high speeds will occupy a big % of your CPU as it's also decompressing. There's much more to a CPU than a framerate graph. PC gaming is just a whole different beast and it's not a good idea to get a crappy CPU on a dead socket just to match a console's price point. You'll just be doing a disservice to yourself (or whoever this builds is for) and you're just speeding up how fast you'll be spending even more money to upgrade to get away from a bad PC gaming experience.

Let's wait for final Pro released version vs PC (with the latest patch) version when it launches.

In the meantime I would like some examples of released games that perform better on PS5 than on 3600.

 

[Skifi28]

In the meantime I would like some examples of released games that perform better on PS5 than on 3600.

Are you really going to ignore all my other points?

 

[Vick]

This has to be DLAA. The image is a lot better than that of PSSR. Not just the parts you highlighted but Ratchet's entire body looks cleaner, the fur strands on his tail are more defined, and the reflections on PC are of much higher quality...I mean, look at the floor where that Goon-4-Less enemy is standing. It looks like a blur on the Pro (AF 4x?). The grass looks way better and so on.

Edit: Maybe it's 4K DLSS Quality. Oliver repeatedly says DLSS and mentions they need more data to compare.

Those improvements there are indeed night and day.

However remember IGN said they didn't have access to ProRes material, we're seeing raw 4090 capture vs encoded video file, then uploaded to YouTube. That ultra compressed PS5 Pro frame we're analysing looks infinitely worse than regular PS5 Performance RT mode.

Won't change the superb addition of RT shadows, not improved reflections, nor larger crowd, but in terms of IQ those frames are useless.

 

[Bojji]

Are you really going to ignore all my other points?

I mean downloading hammers all cpus depending on your internet speed, it decompresses on the fly - here hardware decompression of PS5 probably helps. But you can download stuff while not playing any game so it's not the problem.

Shader stuttering is game related, if devs fucked it up you will have stutters on both 3600 and 7800x3d, just more apparent on weaker cpu. With good shader compilation everything should be smooth.

 

[owandeseis]

Just watch the latest DF video where Dragons Dogma 2 is doing 50+ FPS in the city. My 11600 just dies at the same spot the video is showing. I'm not even talking about just performance though, you'll get so much stuttering on a 3600 in modern games at the spots where it's also loading data and decompressing, you'll be stuck waiting 15min+ on shader compilation screens. Hell, just downloading from steam at high speeds will occupy a big % of your CPU as it's also decompressing. There's much more to a CPU than a framerate graph. PC gaming is just a whole different beast and it's not a good idea to get a crappy CPU on a dead socket just to match a console's price point. You'll just be doing a disservice to yourself (or whoever this builds is for) and you're just speeding up how fast you'll be spending even more money to upgrade to get away from a bad PC gaming experience.

Have you tried that game since last week's patch? doesn't look too bad on a 10400 anymore:



But ye i agree i wouldn't put a 3600/3600x with a 4070 card that should be able to deal even with Pathtracing with DLSS depending on the game/settings, specially when a 5800x can be found for like 50€? more euros, or even the 5700x3d that's normally under 200€.

It's not just about being able to move today's games, it's about being able to play 60+ FPS for the next years.

 

[Skifi28]

I mean downloading hammers all cpus depending on your internet speed, it decompresses on the fly - here hardware decompression of PS5 probably helps. But you can download stuff while not playing any game so it's not the problem.

Shader stuttering is game related, if devs fucked it up you will have stutters on both 3600 and 7800x3d, just more apparent on weaker cpu. With good shader compilation everything should be smooth.

I'm not even talking about just shader comp, the weaker your CPU the more random stutters and bad frametimes you'll be facing as it's struggling to do too much. My 11600 is not even that old, yet my experience in many games has been bad in general and often even worse than console despite getting solid/better framerates overall. You'll almost always have to brute-force your way into a decent experience so for the love of god don't recommend PC players get a 3600 in 2024. It's not even that long since I upgraded to the 11600 and I'm already thinking of grabbing a 3d CPU to get away from all the crap I currently face.

 

[Fafalada]

PSSR is kinda opposite of the new upscale. It seems to have more clarity than native 4k with TAA but suffered from image stability on some games. The new Guerrula upscale has more stability and smoother image than native 4k but look a bit softer compare to 4k DLSS quality.

Temporal stability in all of these algorithms is a balancing act between 'more stability/more ghosting' - the two are inversely correlated. AI changed the game somewhat (as shown by DLSS) to push the reprojection errors (aka ghosting) into perceptually less noticeable territory, but it can't eliminate it.

Anyway - it does seem PSSR might have an edge in detail reconstruction (the 'spectral' part of image analysis can be used to extract detail features to focus on over just adding subsample coverage that other TAA derivatives do). The interesting question is if that is always gonna come at cost of AA (and thus stability) though.

 

[Skifi28]

Have you tried that game since last week's patch? doesn't look too bad on a 10400 anymore:

I've only tried the console version in the latest patch so far and I can't say I noticed much difference. Maybe they're saving the CPU optimization on console to release with the patch that adds pro support? It'll be an interesting benchmark for sure. The latest updates on PC have really killed my experience and I'm getting major and constant micro-stuttering even though it was fine before. I'm gonna have to do some testing in the weekend.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

For Ratchet here In term of image quality, yes. As for graphic, There are subtle differences in favor the 4090 of course.

I’m talking about horizon

 

[owandeseis]

I've only tried the console version in the latest patch so far and I can't say I noticed much difference. Maybe they're saving the CPU optimization on console to release with the patch that adds pro support? It'll be an interesting benchmark for sure. The latest updates on PC have really killed my experience and I'm getting major and constant micro-stuttering even though it was fine before. I'm gonna have to do some testing in the weekend.

The Xbox version runs at 50ish FPS on the low graphical mode now, and at high 30s up to 40 on the high one (this one's GPU bound tho) from what i've seen, no clue about the PS5 version yet tho.

 

[Gaiff]

I'm not even talking about just shader comp, the weaker your CPU the more random stutters and bad frametimes you'll be facing as it's struggling to do too much. My 11600 is not even that old, yet my experience in many games has been bad in general and often even worse than console despite getting solid/better framerates overall. You'll almost always have to brute-force your way into a decent experience so for the love of god don't recommend PC players get a 3600 in 2024. It's not even that long since I upgraded to the 11600 and I'm already thinking of grabbing a 3d CPU to get away from all the crap I currently face.

The bigger problem is that Zen 2 is a dead-end platform. Why would you buy a CPU from the year 2019 in late 2024? These are short-term gains for long-term losses.

I’m talking about horizon

You're probably aware but Horizon doesn't use PSSR. It's more stable at the expense of a softer look. I wonder if they could add a sharpening pass like they did for Rift Apart. The resolve is a tad too smooth in my opinion.

 

[omegasc]

In Poland I can get Pro for 3499PLN or PC with 4070 in it for 3904PLN. Just 11% more

Ultra high price of Pro in Europe makes it a really bad value.

Don't forget to add a Dualsense

 

[Skifi28]

The bigger problem is that Zen 2 is a dead-end platform. Why would you buy a CPU from the year 2019 in late 2024? These are short-term gains for long-term losses.

Indeed, nothing more expensive than a very cheap build you'll be upgrading very soon. Just grab something better from the start.

 

[Panajev2001a]

In Poland I can get Pro for 3499PLN or PC with 4070 in it for 3904PLN. Just 11% more

Ultra high price of Pro in Europe makes it a really bad value.

1 TB SSD I see there . Add a Dual Sense too bruv .

 

[Bojji]

Don't forget to add a Dualsense

Universal gaming controller for PC for ~5$

Indeed, nothing more expensive than a very cheap build you'll be upgrading very soon. Just grab something better from the start.

Of course it is dated, I had this CPU in 2019. But it's comparable to Pro CPU and that's why it landed here. It's enough for most games in 60fps, with locked framerate it should have minimal frametime spikes.

1 TB SSD I see there . Add a Dual Sense too bruv .

With 2TB SSD build would be 18% more expensive:

Dual Sense only works in some games, K&M works in everything! And for 5$!

 

[Panajev2001a]

Universal gaming controller for PC for ~5$

Of course it is dated, I had this CPU in 2019. But it's comparable to Pro CPU and that's why it landed here. It's enough for most games in 60fps, with locked framerate it should have minimal frametime spikes.



With 2TB SSD build would be 18% more expensive:

Dual Sense only works in some games, K&M works in everything! And for 5$!

Nah nah, add game controller too .

 

[Bojji]

Nah nah, add game controller too .

Why? It's optional.

You could add steering wheel to PS5 Pro as well.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Why? It's optional.

You could add steering wheel to PS5 Pro as well.

You are already using percentages, having like for like to the base built-in experience would be fair, but you do you .

If you add the wheel, you can add it to both setups .

 

[Bojji]

You are already using percentages, having like for like to the base built-in experience would be fair, but you do you .

If you add the wheel, you can add it to both setups .

You can't replicate 90% of the stuff PC can do on Pro so this comparison is failed from the start, PC offers much more value.

You NEED Dual Sense to play PS5 games.

You NEED K&M to play PC games

You DON'T NEED controller on PC, it's optional if you like it.

 

[Kangx]

This might be 4K DLAA vs Performance Mode PSSR which upscales from 1440-1800p. Kind of a silly comparison if the objective is to compare DLSS with PSSR.

Ratchet internal res is 1440p to 1580p and Oliver often seen it around 1440p.

 

[Gaiff]

Ratchet internal res is 1440p to 1580p and Oliver often seen it around 1440p.

Yeah, looks like it’s 4K DLSS Quality.

 

[Rudius]

Uh nope, I just checked and it would be around 4070, for some reason I thought 3070 was WAY more powerful... So it should be around 6800XT/7800XT in RAW performance but with way better RT and upscaler

The main problem of those 3070 gpus is the 8gb of ram. PS5 can address a lot more than that and the Pro can use an extra 1.2gb for games on top of that, according to rumors.

Outside of the raytracing most of the improvements aren't gonna be noticed while gaming. No one zooms in on strands of hair or leaves. Also, in my opinion I prefer horizon on vanilla PS5 compared to the pro model for some reason. But on the pro the skin looks less "plastic/shiny" which is better

Come on now, I mean come on!

I reinstalled Grid Legends for a few races on PS5 and it was looking super blurry. I thought wtf? Then I realized the game defaulted to the 120hz mode and that's how it looks at 1080p. With a patch on Pro it would look like 4K all the time.

 

[omegasc]

You can't replicate 90% of the stuff PC can do on Pro so this comparison is failed from the start, PC offers much more value.

You NEED Dual Sense to play PS5 games.

You NEED K&M to play PC games

You DON'T NEED controller on PC, it's optional if you like it.

So, who are you proposing this to?
If you're telling console people to buy a PC, they most likely will prefer a controller. A decent one. They want to play games.
Don't just build something that works. Build something that gives a similar experience.

Plus.... Windows License

 

[Panajev2001a]

You can't replicate 90% of the stuff PC can do on Pro so this comparison is failed from the start, PC offers much more value.

You NEED Dual Sense to play PS5 games.

You NEED K&M to play PC games

You DON'T NEED controller on PC, it's optional if you like it.

Sure sure… you get the same experience for PS5 games you play there .

 

[Panajev2001a]

So, who are you proposing this to?
If you're telling console people to buy a PC, they most likely will prefer a controller. A decent one. They want to play games.
Don't just build something that works. Build something that gives a similar experience.

Plus.... Windows License

Yup, seems like piling on the PS5 Pro pride mocking from the PCMR peanut gallery or ?

 

[Bojji]

So, who are you proposing this to?
If you're telling console people to buy a PC, they most likely will prefer a controller. A decent one. They want to play games.
Don't just build something that works. Build something that gives a similar experience.

Plus.... Windows License

You have fully working gaming system for just 11-18% (depending on SSD size) more than PS5 Pro that offers WAY more options.

It's not for console players but for players in general - in Europe value of Pro is competently fucked up. Older consoles were much cheaper compared to PC equivalents but this one isn't.

And Windows can be used totally for free without lincese, or you could buy one for this, massive amount of money.

 

[omegasc]

Dual Sense only works in some games

what? I've been using it for everything on PC. Lots of games even have native support.

 

[Bojji]

what? I've been using it for everything on PC. Lots of games even have native support.

New games yes, still not all of them. For old games you need software to emulate xinput.

 

[Rudius]

It's not complicated, It's playing out exactly as always.

DF makes claims and narratives, and then back in reality, Mark Cerny delivers as always.

DF claimed ps5 pro wouldn't be able to run games at 60 fps. How is that narrative going?

How is the DF narrative that the industry wasn't ready for a Pro console going?

How is the PS5 Pro weak cpu narrative going?

Just because they are forced to report on reality doesn't remove their bizarre and cringe-worthy takes on the ps5 pro throughout the year. This is once again a giant L for them. When it was unannounced, they kept bashing the idea, and now faced with reality, they sing another tune. Yet you and others somehow think them being wrong each time is a win.

But for the negative sentiment, they couldn't help themselves and ended the article with:

> even if the value argument hasn't been made completely.

The CPU narrative is ridiculous. Almost all games that were heavy on the CPU this gen, going by pc performance, have been unfinished crap, with nothing to justify the high CPU usage. Games that really make good use of CPU power, like A Plage Tale, the new Warhammer and Teardown, can achieve 60fps in at least one of the current gen consoles.

The only game that should push the 8 zen 2 cores really hard is GTA 6, but practically all we have today is limited either by the gpu or by lack of optimization.

 

[GHG]

New games yes, still not all of them. For old games you need software to emulate xinput.

You don't need any software. Steam has native dualsense support and it will handle everything for you provided the game has any form of native controller support.

With the way you're talking you better have some 4090 x3d rig, if not you're coming across as massively insecure.

 

[Elios83]

Are you really going to ignore all my other points?

Some people are trying super hard not to recognize the obvious value the PS5 Pro is bringing as if they felt threatened by the system and its existence. Imo it's a total waste of time.

 

[Rudius]

Lol from 30-35 to 52-55 is not transformative

It is if you have a VRR screen, and if you want a PS5 Pro you should. 52-55 fps with VRR should be almost impossible to differentiate from 60.

 

[Zathalus]

Don't forget to add a Dualsense

A bit overpriced, I’d recommend an 8bitdo ultimate 2c. Wireless Hall effect controller with similar build quality as an Xbox controller for $29.99.

 

[Rudius]

I fucking hope they don't: 120 Hz output on Xbox Series sucks for games limited to 60 fps (that are like 95% of the total)

What is the problem with that? Is there a video explaining it?

 

[ManaByte]

 

[Bojji]

You don't need any software. Steam has native dualsense support and it will handle everything for you provided the game has any form of native controller support.

With the way you're talking you better have some 4090 x3d rig, if not you're coming across as massively insecure.

As long as you want to add non steam games into steam client. Something like DualSenseX works everywhere.

Insecure about what? Totally shit value of PS5 Pro in part of the world where I live? Sony went bonkers with the prices and removed the disc drive. They can go fuck themselves, and I was interested in Pro before reveal. I'm not insecure but super salty about what this company is doing.

I don't need 4090 to have better specs than Pro, 3080ti is already 35% more powerful than console GPU and 5800X3D has like 2x performance of Zen 2. This is my "pro console" this gen.

 

[Bitstream]

You don't need any software. Steam has native dualsense support and it will handle everything for you provided the game has any form of native controller support.

With the way you're talking you better have some 4090 x3d rig, if not you're coming across as massively insecure.

lmao probably rocking a 1060

 

[omegasc]

A bit overpriced, I’d recommend an 8bitdo ultimate 2c. Wireless Hall effect controller with similar build quality as an Xbox controller for $29.99.

I say Dualsense as it is the one I like the most, but that's a good recommendation and would keep the experience parity for console players.

 

[GHG]

As long as you want to add non steam games into steam client. Something like DualSenseX works everywhere.

It takes 2 clicks to add non-steam games to the client.

Insecure about what? Totally shit value of PS5 Pro in part of the world where I live? Sony went bonkers with the prices and removed the disc drive. They can go fuck themselves, and I was interested in Pro before reveal. I'm not insecure but super salty about what this company is doing.

Everyone knows you're salty, this isn't new information.

I don't need 4090 to have better specs than Pro, 3080ti is already 35% more powerful than console GPU and 5800X3D has like 2x performance of Zen 2. This is my "pro console" this gen.

Maybe once you upgrade your GPU you'll start to feel more comfortable.