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[AgentP]

Leadbetter? No thanks. To subjective in his analysis, he should stick to numbers and graphs.

 

[bobbytkc]

Some of the features they've announced would require a lot of ram at once. Save states and task switching for example.

The Vita does both of these with 768 MB of RAM total.

Also, the save states are just the game kept in the system ram while the system runs in low power mode. It does not take additional ram.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Tretton hinted that it'll be cheaper than PS3's launch.

$598!

 

[meta4]

KZ2 does not look better than Crysis, but KZ SF does look better than Crysis 3 (imo).

This. It looks much better. Holy cow downloaded that HD gamersyde vid and watched it on TV and boy my jaw was on the floor. It looks stunning and that too was prob designed without the jump in memory in mind as it was a last minute change it looks like. Even other devs were surprised.

 

[Durante]

Having the arm chip for stand-by mode doesn't get enough praise. I love that move. An ARM chip will allow that to be functional, but have super low power consumption. The entire design of everything is just so elegant.

Yeah, I think we should talk more about that ARM chip, and encoding hardware as well. Maybe there should be a thread for that.

 

[RibbedHero]

This. It looks much better. Holy cow downloaded that HD gamersyde vid and watched it on TV and boy my jaw was on the floor. It looks stunning and that too was prob designed without the jump in memory in mind as it was a last minute change it looks like. Even other devs were surprised.

Much better? I can maybe understand someone thinking it looked on par, but much better? I don't think so.

 

[mavs]

Yea, some of that stuff is pretty out there. Hence why nobody believed it. But looking back, some things were true. It'll be interesting if Microsoft did indeed respond in some way that may not be necessarily be as they reported. I guess time will tell.

Technically they didn't get anything right. They had the PS4 memory as 4gigs DDR3 + 4 gigs GDDR5. Also I want you to take a look at the SOCs they have in Microsoft's console. AMD 8900 with "10000HD future tech"? AMD doesn't even have a new architecture coming out this year and they are including tech three generations down the road? Also on paper just one of those Microsoft SOCs is better than the real PS4, and there's three of them according to that report.

None of those predictions panned out.

 

[jcm]

Yea, some of that stuff is pretty out there. Hence why nobody believed it. But looking back, some things were true. It'll be interesting if Microsoft did indeed respond in some way that may not be necessarily be as they reported. I guess time will tell.

It was completely made up bullshit. The fact that they happened to get the right total amount of ram is strictly the blind pig finding an onion.

 

[Portugeezer]

PS4 basically matches current high end PC's, with some advantages and some disadvantages, but many PC gamers will have to upgrade if PS4 becomes the lowest common denominator for next gen games.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Realistically, how much do you think cost will be affected by the 8GB DDR5? I'm not a tech head, but are we talking an extra $50, extra $100 or something more?

The cool thing about this, and I'm just speculating, but even if mutliplats are roughly equivalent on both platforms because developers don't take the time to optimize them for the PS4's specs, Sony's first-pary offerings should look pretty amazing right? I mean look at what Naughty Dog was able to get out of the PS3. I wonder they'd be able to squeeze out of the PS4?

I think the 8GB DDR5 thing was probably one of the most exciting announcements of the conference even if, outside of Killzone FE and Watch Dogs, the games revealed weren't that exciting to me.

 

[scitek]

I agree. The art style however, is a different matter. It's so improper to compare a full game with a pre-alpha footage of a game that still certain visual issues to sort out and where we were only privy to a vertical slice.

And one that's super scripted and controlled to one that's more open-ended.

 

[Durante]

PS4 basically matches current high end PC's

Nah, it really doesn't. Both the CPU and GPU are weaker by at least a factor of 2.

Realistically, how much do you think cost will be affected by the 8GB DDR5? I'm not a tech head, but are we talking an extra $50, extra $100 or something more?

Probably around $50 on the BoM compared to 4 GB.

 

[RibbedHero]

Realistically, how much do you think cost will be affected by the 8GB DDR5? I'm not a tech head, but are we talking an extra $50, extra $100 or something more?

The cool thing about this, and I'm just speculating, but even if mutliplats are roughly equivalent on both platforms because developers don't take the time to optimize them for the PS4's specs, Sony's first-pary offerings should look pretty amazing right? I mean look at what Naughty Dog was able to get out of the PS3. I wonder they'd be able to squeeze out of the PS4?

I think the 8GB DDR5 thing was probably one of the most exciting announcements of the conference even if, outside of Killzone FE and Watch Dogs, the games revealed weren't that exciting to me.

In another thread it was mentioned that the bulk price for 8GB GDDR5 is $110-140, so the choice of 8GB over 4GB costs between $55-70 for Sony. Don't know how those prices will be passed on to consumers.

 

[Portugeezer]

Nah, it really doesn't.

It's producing high end visuals, running tech demos that required a 680 (agnis), 680 is high end.

 

[mavs]

PS4 basically matches current high end PC's, with some advantages and some disadvantages, but many PC gamers will have to upgrade if PS4 becomes the lowest common denominator for next gen games.

It doesn't really, but the distribution of resources might mean future PC hardware will have to catch up in RAM capacity and GPU-CPU communication. It's definitely nixed my desire to add another 670 at any price.

It's producing high end visuals, running tech demos that required a 680 (agnis), 680 is high end.

That's a tech demo, not a video game.

 

[Sipowicz]

"What shouldn't be understated is the amount of extra cash this is going to add to PlayStation 4's BOM (bill of materials) - this is an expensive, massive investment for the company."


E3 is going to be hilarious

 

[RibbedHero]

It's producing high end visuals, running tech demos that required a 680 (agnis), 680 is high end.

KZSF, by far the best looking game shown yesterday, is running at 1080p30 and does not look nearly as good or pristine as C3, so it's not producing the same levels of high end visuals.

Can't compare Agni's as its such a restricted environment.

PS4 CPU = FX-6300
PS4 GPU = 6870 or 7850

Hardy high end. Only high-end thing here is the memory.

 

[JJD]

KZSF looks like a slightly better Syndicate, not near C3 levels as far as I'm concerned.

While I do believe that C3 looks better, I think saying that KZSF looks slightly better than Syndicate is also not fair.

Are you comparing graphics tech or art direction?

C3 looks really great, but there is nothing revolutionary about it IMO (graphically).

Considering that the PS4 is a fixed box system and the evolution of first generation PS3 software to where we are right now I'd say that even if PS4 games are not as good looking as C3 right now or at launch, they will eventually get there.

Obviously PC architecture won't suddenly stagnate, so PCs will keep getting more powerful by the time PS4 games reach C3 levels.

 

[Curufinwe]

KZSF, by far the best looking game shown yesterday, is running at 1080p30 and does not look nearly as good or pristine as C3, so it's not producing the same levels of high end visuals.

Crysis 3 is a released game. KZSF is at least 9 months away.

 

[JonathanPower]

Nah, it really doesn't. Both the CPU and GPU are weaker by at least a factor of 2.

In terms of bandwidth, it does.

 

[Portugeezer]

PS4 CPU = FX-6300
PS4 GPU = 6870 or 7850

Hardy high end. Only high-end thing here is the memory.

So PS4 is matching high end PC without high end hardware? Okay.

 

[RibbedHero]

While I do believe that C3 looks better, I think saying that KZSF looks slightly better than Syndicate is also not fair.

Are you comparing graphics tech or art direction?

C3 looks really great, but there is nothing revolutionary about it IMO (graphically).

Considering that the PS4 is a fixed box system and the evolution of first generation PS3 software to where we are right now I'd say that even if PS4 games are not as good looking as C3 right now or at launch, they will eventually get there.

Obviously PC architecture won't suddenly stagnate, so PCs will keep getting more powerful by the time PS4 games reach C3 levels.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search.php?searchid=1691865

Go through some of the Syndicate screenshots, KZ4 has a similar look, albeit slightly better. I think its an apt comparison.

So PS4 is matching high end PC without high end hardware? Okay.

If that KZ4 demo looked as good as the C3 screenshots in the screenshot thread to you then I wish I was as lucky as you are. The difference is clear to me, but if you can't tell the difference then more power to you.

 

[hwalker84]

My allegiances are shifting. This thing is an absolute beast. Hopefully Microsoft has some cards up it's sleeve.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Nah, it really doesn't. Both the CPU and GPU are weaker by at least a factor of 2.


Probably around $50 on the BoM compared to 4 GB.

$50 for the first few production runs, less for the later ones as the process matures and the 4Gb chips become cheaper from competition etc... Eventually 8Gb chips will be developed at 20nm so that will bring a big sigh of relief from Sony as it will erase the higher cost.

 

[Portugeezer]

If that KZ4 demo looked as good as the C3 screenshots in the screenshot thread to you then I wish I was as lucky as you are. The difference is clear to me, but if you can't tell the difference then more power to you.

I haven't checked, but KZ and Crysis are different games, not the best to compare, whereas the tech demo which ran on a 680 and now running on PS4 are the same.

If 680 is now low end then lol okay.

 

[McLovin]

Awesome. The 8gb of ddr5 has me concerned pricing wise though...

Price will go down eventually, and if it was super cheap they wouldn't be able to meet demand anyway. I think it's gonna be at least 500.

 

[mavs]

In terms of bandwidth, it does.

Only to the CPU, which is far weaker than a desktop CPU. The overall system has less memory bandwidth than the top end AMD and Nvidia cards, by a wide margin on the AMD side.

 

[LTWheels]

It really doesn't. It looks on par mostly, shadowing is actually slightly worse than Crysis 3 on very high.

Yes.

Crysis 3 can also run at high resolutions than 1080p and at 60fps. KZ is 30fps.

 

[artist]

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1769813/nextgen_xbox_720_will_be_more_powerful_than_ps4_report.html




Funny how they were also the first to mention the no native 4k resolution thing. Granted, a lot of it was way off but give them credit for getting some things right.

Reads ..

Xbox Next is actually capable of 4.2TFlops.

Ahahahahahaahaha

Seriously, this Edge article was spot on; http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=511181

And they followed it up with two more articles on Xbox Next (No used games, less powerful, less developer friendly tools, always online)

 

[Cyborg]

Awesome. The 8gb of ddr5 has me concerned pricing wise though...

They cant do itright. If it was 4GB you would bitch about that and be concerned about the graphics

 

[McLovin]

You guys are comparing a high end retail pc game to a console game(that's not even close to finished) and that somehow is a negative for killzone?

 

[JonathanPower]

So PS4 is matching high end PC without high end hardware? Okay.

I think 8GB of DDR5 is pretty high end.

 

[JJD]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search.php?searchid=1691865

Go through some of the Syndicate screenshots, KZ4 has a similar look, albeit slightly better. I think its an apt comparison.

My point is, PS4 games will reach C3 graphical levels way before next gen. is done IMO, even if the launch games do not. This is all that matters in the end. If they can get there, or even surpass it.

Look at the MGS: Ground Zeroes demo running on a PC with PS3 specs. If anyone saw that on 2005 they would never believe that kind of graphics would be possible on the PS3 and 360.

Leadbetter said himself:

PC stood in for PS4 at several points in the event - the core processing elements in the new console are derived from AMD computer tech. In a fixed box system, the potential is immense.

 

[Derrick01]

I think 8GB of DDR5 is pretty high end.

It is but the CPU and GPU aren't any better than the current really high end PC parts.

 

[JJD]

Reads ..

Ahahahahahaahaha

Seriously, this Edge article was spot on; http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=511181

And they followed it up with two more articles on Xbox Next (No used games, less powerful, less developer friendly tools, always online)

The Nowgamer comments are even better!

From January 17:

This is one of the comments of your source: "Buthurted Sonyfans are saing now they want Octupus Rift more. What an idiots and loosers. Better loose with passion than be an idiot. Someone recently said neogaf(sony land japan site) will be sad soon. Did not know that will be that soon. But I can understand them and their culture and USA hating(i would hate them too for nucles and slaving). I just can not get their methods of loosing."

Just look on his website. Very credible to consider a frustrated 12 year old as a source indeed.

 

[Portugeezer]

Crysis 3 can also run at high resolutions than 1080p and at 60fps. KZ is 30fps.

You get what you pay for.

You need SLI/Crossfire graphics cards to get 60fps average in Crysis 3, and that is with no AA.

A single high end card is around 30 - 40fps with some AA.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I think 8GB of DDR5 is pretty high end.

If only memory was the only part of the equation you'd be right on the money.

Ya gotta have a GPU that accesses said memory. The GPU itself isn't blowing down doors. It's for damn sure solid enough, though.

 

[RibbedHero]

My point is, PS4 games will reach C3 graphical levels way before next gen. is done IMO, even if the launch games do not. This is all that matters in the end. If they can get there, or even surpass it.

Look at the MGS: Ground Zeroes demo running on a PC with PS3 specs. If anyone saw that on 2005 they would never believe that kind of graphics would be possible on the PS3 and 360.

Leadbetter said himself:

I fully agree, the PS4 will undoubtedly match C3 in its lifetime. But as it stands KZ4 falls short.

 

[JonathanPower]

Only to the CPU, which is far weaker than a desktop CPU. The overall system has less memory bandwidth than the top end AMD and Nvidia cards, by a wide margin on the AMD side.

However, the PS4 has a much more efficient architecture than PC hardware. On PC the GPU is never used to its full potential, while on consoles the hw always gets maximized.

 

[Officerrob]

Tretton hinted that it'll be cheaper than PS3's launch.

Realistically, I think we are looking at at least $499, and I'm pretty sure that's not a good idea

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Do we have any idea how much extra 4GB of GDDR5 would add to the final cost?

If it's only adding $30 then it's worth it. If it's adding $70 then it's a big risk.

 

[Portugeezer]

Realistically, I think we are looking at at least $499, and I'm pretty sure that's not a good idea

Realistically, the PS Vita was meant to be $400.

 

[JJD]

Do we have any idea how much extra 4GB of GDDR5 would add to the final cost?

If it's only adding $30 then it's worth it. If it's adding $70 then it's a big risk.

It's closer to 70 bucks than 30.

Sony is taking risks. I hope it pays out in the end for then.

 

[scitek]

My point is, PS4 games will reach C3 graphical levels way before next gen. is done IMO, even if the launch games do not. This is all that matters in the end. If they can get there, or even surpass it.

Yeah, Crysis 4 will, at least.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

"The startling reality is that unless Sony has somehow got access to a larger chip that isn't yet in mass production and that nobody knows about, it has crammed 16 memory modules onto its PS4 motherboard."



Remember that crazy Nowgamer article that nobody believed? The first to say that Sony matched Durango's 8GB RAM, the first to say it will be unveiled in February and how...gulp...it was having overheating issues? God I hope that's not true as well.

Possibly a reason we didn't see the casing?

 

[artist]

The Nowgamer comments are even better!

From January 17:

Neogaf = Sony land japan site. I'm japanese?

Mind blown.

 

[meta4]

I fully agree, the PS4 will undoubtedly match C3 in its lifetime. But as it stands KZ4 falls short.

No. Sorry.

 

[i-Lo]

No. Sorry.

The shadows leave something to be desired. So as of now it falls short. But let's be honest, we are comparing a vertical slice of a controlled demo of a pre-alpha game built on older specs vs a PC game built on cryengine 3 in its prime and fully retail worthy.

Give it some time.

 

[velociraptor]

KZSF, by far the best looking game shown yesterday, is running at 1080p30 and does not look nearly as good or pristine as C3, so it's not producing the same levels of high end visuals.

Can't compare Agni's as its such a restricted environment.

PS4 CPU = FX-6300
PS4 GPU = 6870 or 7850

Hardy high end. Only high-end thing here is the memory.

Uh, incorrect. The 7850 BLOWS away the 6870.

Consider that the 7850 is able to run Crysis 2 at high settings @ 1080p, 60fps.

As far as graphics cards go, the 7850 is pretty damn powerful. It will run virtually every game on the market at 1080p 60fps, including Crysis 3.

 

[bryehn]

I wouldn't be surprised, even with Sony's financial state, if they sold it at a loss for a while. Futureproofing this thing will almost definitely pay off in the long run. That said, I think we'll be paying 499 for the PS4.