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[onQ123]

Here is a fact none of us has seen a game made from the ground up with over 4GB of Vram in mind so I can't even begin to think of what level a game made for 8GB of GDDR5 will be at.


we are hitting WTF levels here people, this is enough GDDR5 Ram to fit a whole Xbox 360 game in it's memory.

 

[BloodMoney]

Wait till Crysis 3 is a launch title on the PS4 running with all graphic settings on very high locked at 30fps (something most high end PC's can't do).

 

[JJD]

Here is a fact none of us has seen a game made from the ground up with over 4GB of Vram in mind so I can't even begin to think of what level a game made for 8GB of GDDR5 will be at.


we are hitting WTF levels here people, this is enough GDDR5 Ram to fit a whole Xbox 360 game in it's memory.

Sure, but that amount of RAM will have a much bigger effect on gameplay than on graphics.

Games will probably look fucking great but the biggest difference IMO is that with that amount of RAM ND could pull an Uncharted or Last Of Us open world game for exemple.

Imagine the kind of AI that devs. will be able to come up with (if they invest enough!).

 

[HueyFreeman]

Price will go down eventually, and if it was super cheap they wouldn't be able to meet demand anyway. I think it's gonna be at least 500.

I wouldn't be surprised, but I'm hoping it'll be 399. There are people on these boards demanding a 299 launch price point, and it's just absolutely delusional given the hardware this beast is packing. I'm not sure MS doesn't have the right idea (from what we know) - scaling a bit back from this, hopefully in order to keep the price reasonable. If these consoles launch at the same time and there's price discrepancy, Sony's just stuck itself in the exact same position it was in 7 years ago.

 

[artist]

No. Sorry.

Closed systems will always have an advantage even with a weaker spec.

I'm one of the biggest believers in PC gaming = master class but I'm not that blind.

 

[VicDaMoan03]

How will streaming games work with the current bandwidth infrastructure around the world? Heck I couldn’t even stream the PS meeting video without hiccups or image downgrade.

 

[Despera]

To illustrate the extent of the achievement, Nvidia's $1000 graphics card - the GeForce Titan - offers "just" 6GB of onboard GDDR5.

*gulp*

My wallet is trembling.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I wouldn't be surprised, but I'm hoping it'll be 399. There are people on these boards demanding a 299 launch price point, and it's just absolutely delusional given the hardware this beast is packing. I'm not sure MS doesn't have the right idea (from what we know) - scaling a bit back from this, hopefully in order to keep the price reasonable. If these consoles launch at the same time and there's price discrepancy, Sony's just stuck itself in the exact same position it was in 7 years ago.

Good point.

Launching close to the next Xbox is a huge improvement from last generation, but if the PS4 is $100+ more...big problem.

 

[Returners]

Tretton hinted that it'll be cheaper than PS3's launch.

Can you show me a link of the interview Tretton did? Would love to see his words other than Yoshida's.

 

[Durante]

Do we have any idea how much extra 4GB of GDDR5 would add to the final cost?

If it's only adding $30 then it's worth it. If it's adding $70 then it's a big risk.

Probably $50... so a risk that's worth it?

I fully agree, the PS4 will undoubtedly match C3 in its lifetime. But as it stands KZ4 falls short.

I think that's a fair assessment.

 

[spwolf]

How will streaming games work with the current bandwidth infrastructure around the world? Heck I couldn’t even stream the PS meeting video without hiccups or image downgrade.

sure but you were not paying for your video stream .

Gaikai stuff was tested by Eurogamer before, looks fine and it seems to me that it has been improved since too, for less lag (specifically mentioned).

Now it wont be for everyone, bandwith is NOT an issue at all, your latency to first server might be the issue... if you live close to major data hubs, you should have no real issues.

 

[mavs]

However, the PS4 has a much more efficient architecture than PC hardware. On PC the GPU is never used to its full potential, while on consoles the hw always gets maximized.

I've got no worries about the capability of the hardware, that's for damn sure. Especially with no new PC graphics hardware on the horizon.

 

[Mogwai]

Sounds like Sony wants to make sure that this console can do some serious multitasking.

 

[demosthenes]

*gulp*

My wallet is trembling.

Nvidia is selling @ a high profit. Sony is not.

 

[Perkel]

I think that's a fair assessment.

I think it is also fair to judge it when game will be shipped to our consoles. Right now we saw only bit of game with "skybox" being probably best looking set piece in gaming right now and gameplay which wasn't really showing anything.

It is fair to say that Crytek will deliver better quality effects but effects alone don't make WOW factor.

Imo right now this flying setpiece is best looking setpiece in gaming history (for now) with absolutely mindblowing scale (even with using lod everywhere) and those damn reflections everywhere.

 

[Hitchslap]

I think that the biggest mistake we are now making is comparing a console with high-end pc's only... Steam survey shows that over 60% of users have 1GB or less of vram; only 45% have a dx11 gpu's etc. Those machines are a part of the platform as well and can't be ignored by anyone, including developers. Ps4 doesn't have to be more powerful than Titan to be relevant...being better than the average pc should be good enough, at least in the graphics department.

 

[GaimeGuy]

I've always thought consoles should focus more on RAM than CPU or GPU, since the closed architecture allows you to be able to improve performance by several times (and rather lazily, at that). Not to say the CPU and GPU don't matter, but having a weak CPU and GPU isn't as crippling as having slow or too little RAM.

It always feels like the main bottleneck each console generation ends up being RAM in spite of this, though.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Probably $50... so a risk that's worth it?

Maybe.

Third party developers will still base everything on the lowest specification, so I only really see the extra ram benefiting first party titles (initially at least).

 

[Radec]

I hope 1080/30 won't be the "bar" on the PS4.

1080/60 with no AA is fine by me.

 

[devonraynor]

with the 8 GB i think sony is willing to sell at a loss
no way they gonna repeat the 599 stuff

 

[Melchiah]

Based on assets released this morning by Sony, 1080p does indeed appear to be the new resolution standard for next-gen titles on PS4, meaning a clean 2x super-sampling effect when the same game is rendered on PS Vita.

Absolutely awesome if true. That's what I was hoping for.

 

[Ol No Bones]

Pretty good gpu and awesome memory. Nothing game changing but the fanboys are gonna start evangelizing this thing like its the best hardware. I see no reason why the Xbox won't match or even be better. I'm sure Sony knows better but isn't this memory overkill given the other specs of the machine?

 

[HueyFreeman]

I think that the biggest mistake we are now making is comparing a console with high-end pc's only... Steam survey shows that over 60% of users have 1GB or less of vram; only 45% have a dx11 gpu's etc. Those machines are a part of the platform as well and can't be ignored by anyone, including developers. Ps4 doesn't have to be more powerful than Titan to be relevant...being better than the average pc should be good enough, at least in the graphics department.

Exactly. The fact that it can almost stack up to a high end PC is what makes me so concerned about what it's launch cost is going to be. I just don't think sony can go through another gen losing hand over fist on hardware again... but then again, maybe I'm wrong. We'll see.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Absolutely awesome if true. That's what I was hoping for.

That makes my dick rock hard. I hope it's the case.

 

[Violater]

*gulp*

My wallet is trembling.

Ohh stop it, anyone believing that we will see another 599 is just plain pessimistic.
Sony seems to be doing everything right so far, lets give them a chance to do the right thing with the price.
If worst comes to worst my 599 is ready

 

[Espada]

Ohh stop it, anyone believing that we will see another 599 is just plain pessimistic.
Sony seems to be doing everything right so far, lets give them a chance to do the right thing with the price.
If worst comes to worst my 599 is ready

They have every reason to be worried. Sony overpriced the PS3, overpriced the Vita, and has loaded the PS4 down with so much expensive memory that a $499 price point is not unlikely.

They're fully capable of screwing themselves over at the last minute erasing any gains and good will they'd created up to that point.

 

[Cake Boss]

What was the price difference between the 360 and PS3 when the PS3 launched? I cant remember.

I know the PS3 was 599 but cant remember what the 360 was at.

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

They have every reason to be worried. Sony overpriced the PS3, overpriced the Vita, and has loaded the PS4 down with so much expensive memory that a $499 price point is not unlikely.

They're fully capable of screwing themselves over at the last minute erasing any gains and good will they'd created up to that point.

Sony didn't overprice the Vita, it was reasonably priced for what it was. Their mistake was creating a system there was no market for, not in the way they priced it.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

What was the price difference between the 360 and PS3 when the PS3 launched? I cant remember.

I know the PS3 was 599 but cant remember what the 360 was at.

$299(Core)/$399

 

[nasos_333]

Awesome. The 8gb of ddr5 has me concerned pricing wise though...

Price is no issue for me if that extra ram means PS4 will provide stunning visuals for 7-8 years

 

[Tashi]

I hope this thing is not crazy expensive. I really want one.

 

[J-Rzez]

Wait till Crysis 3 is a launch title on the PS4 running with all graphic settings on very high locked at 30fps (something most high end PC's can't do).

Naw, I'll just wait for an optimized title from ND, SSM, or PD instead.

 

[JJD]

They have every reason to be worried. Sony overpriced the PS3, overpriced the Vita, and has loaded the PS4 down with so much expensive memory that a $499 price point is not unlikely.

They're fully capable of screwing themselves over at the last minute erasing any gains and good will they'd created up to that point.

The same can be more or less said of all hardware makers.

Both Nintendo and MS started this generation great but are pretty bland by now.

They can all screw over themselves over last minute details.

 

[tapedeck]

They have every reason to be worried. Sony overpriced the PS3, overpriced the Vita, and has loaded the PS4 down with so much expensive memory that a $499 price point is not unlikely.

They're fully capable of screwing themselves over at the last minute erasing any gains and good will they'd created up to that point.

I highly doubt the system will be one penny over $499.99. Sony is well aware they fucked up with the $599 SKU, and no one can say what the GDDR5 is actually costing Sony. Obviously they will strike a deal to get the RAM cheaper then wholesale (which right now is maybe $120 for 8 gigs if that) and the price of the RAM will only go down by launch. And as for the Vita, almost everyone expected it to be at least 50-100 dollars more than it was at launch.

 

[RyL]

Why would there be overheating? They just need a decent thermal solution, and Sony has never disappointed in that regard. Titan has 24 GDDR5 chips at higher frequency and no heat issues.

Seriously, even with 8 GB GDDR5 PS4 will be much easier to cool than launch PS3, and Sony didn't have a problem with that either.

No. It's 8 GDDR5 chips per side. Let's not get crazy here.

Yea, that's why pretty much all launch consoles suffered the YLOD defect.. (including my european 60GB launch console)

Crysis launched a full year after the PS3 launch, it also wasn't until two years into current gen that PC parts started to significantly overshadow consoles in regards to power. That's not the case this time by a long shot.

Absolute nonsense. The Ps3 launched in November 2006 in NA and in March 2007 in Europe. Crysis launched in March 2007. I bought my Gaming PC in July 2008 (which at the time was somewhat outdated and rather middle class in terms of performance) and I only upgraded the OS/external peripherals.

(CPU: QuadCore Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450, 2666 MHz (4x 2,6GHz), MB: Asus P5K, RAM: 4GB DDR RAM (too lazy to look up which one), GFX: nVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 896 MB (Zotac)
And I can still run every modern game at 1080p maxed out (most of the time even with 16xAA/AF!) with at least 30f-60fps if not more.

Also, you guys should be aware that at least ~2GB will be reserved for the OS. Sure it has a little co-processor thing for the recording/streaming but it still needs lots of RAM. (especially if you want good quality videos, i.e. 720p streaming/recodring)

 

[Salaadin]

Sony itself doesn't fabricate memory, it buys from major suppliers who advertise the parts available months (sometimes years) ahead of delivery, so we have a decent idea of what options the platform holders have on the table in creating their next-gen systems. The GDDR5 memory modules - the same used in PC graphics cards - are only available in certain configurations, with the densest option available offering 512MB per module. The startling reality is that unless Sony has somehow got access to a larger chip that isn't yet in mass production and that nobody knows about, it has crammed 16 memory modules onto its PS4 motherboard. To illustrate the extent of the achievement, Nvidia's $1000 graphics card - the GeForce Titan - offers "just" 6GB of onboard GDDR5.

First we had so many gaf insiders telling us 8GB was impossible and now we hear stuff like this...How can this even be?
I want to believe, I really do, but I just have a gut feeling that someone made a mistake, Sony overshot the specs, or we are going to be dealing with a lot of launch shortages.

 

[LightofRohan]

Not fully pertaining to this thread, just a general rant about recent threads/discussions;

It's truly nuts how many PC elitist there are this time. I'm surprised how many have come out of the woodwork to downplay the significance of this generation... it's sad really. We get it, PC gaming is the best! Christ.

I feel like I'm not allowed to be excited while on the internet any more about anything.

 

[ZoddGutts]

Interesting read - especially about the CUs.

Sony's secret sauce? Well that and the other CPU for background downloads and sleep mode.

 

[Tyrone_Biggums]

I think that the biggest mistake we are now making is comparing a console with high-end pc's only... Steam survey shows that over 60% of users have 1GB or less of vram; only 45% have a dx11 gpu's etc. Those machines are a part of the platform as well and can't be ignored by anyone, including developers. Ps4 doesn't have to be more powerful than Titan to be relevant...being better than the average pc should be good enough, at least in the graphics department.

This. Hardware is second fiddle to the console delivering experiences not yet achieved by the medium in any other generation.

 

[RaijinFY]

$50 for the first few production runs, less for the later ones as the process matures and the 4Gb chips become cheaper from competition etc... Eventually 8Gb chips will be developed at 20nm so that will bring a big sigh of relief from Sony as it will erase the higher cost.

There is word on that? Or just speculation?

 

[pestul]

Maybe PS4 is the reason Nvidia and AMD aren't launching their nextgen series until winter. Sony needs to secure all the GDDR5 chips they can.

 

[genjiZERO]

Not fully pertaining to this thread, just a general rant about recent threads/discussions;

It's truly nuts how many PC elitist there are this time. I'm surprised how many have come out of the woodwork to downplay the significance of this generation... it's sad really. We get it, PC gaming looks the best when you have hundreds of dollars, if not thousands, to blow on equipment! Christ.

I feel like I'm not allowed to be excited while on the internet any more about anything.

Fixed IMO. I've never gotten PC elitism. I agree high end machines have better graphics, but that's it really. I also think PC gaming far more limited genre, accessibility and simplicity-wise.

 

[madmaxx350]

I can't seriously understand how people say that there isn't any leap lol

new direct feed demo posted by Killzone.com, watch in 1080p...

 

[funkystudent]

It sounds great but I worried that early hardware is going to be plagued with problems like early 360 and ps3's.


I would love a ps4 but I dont want to buy one and have it die in 2 years.

 

[SirButterstick]

Fixed IMO. I've never gotten PC elitism. I agree high end machines have better graphics, but that's it really. I also think PC gaming far more limited genre, accessibility and simplicity-wise.

What? No.

If anything, PC gaming has a wider assortment of games and genres.

 

[Violater]

They have every reason to be worried. Sony overpriced the PS3, overpriced the Vita, and has loaded the PS4 down with so much expensive memory that a $499 price point is not unlikely.

They're fully capable of screwing themselves over at the last minute erasing any gains and good will they'd created up to that point.

$499=/= $599 or even the $1000+ that he was reacting to.

As for loading the system down, that's such a laughable comment.
I guess next you are going to tell me no sale unless $250?

 

[Jack_AG]

Sony's secret sauce? Well that and the other CPU for background downloads and sleep mode.

I don't think so. We knew about them ahead of time - but now it seems they are unified.

 

[tipoo]

Here is a fact none of us has seen a game made from the ground up with over 4GB of Vram in mind so I can't even begin to think of what level a game made for 8GB of GDDR5 will be at.


we are hitting WTF levels here people, this is enough GDDR5 Ram to fit a whole Xbox 360 game in it's memory.

I hadn't even thought of that, that's pretty insane. I don't remember that ever happening before, the xbox 360 couldn't fit a whole xbox games worth of content in its memory, the PS3 couldn't for the PS2, etc.

And along with the memory being larger, they can make more effective use of streaming since more assets will be able to be vacated from the memory as the scene changes. Hopefully a lot of devs do it right and bring us games with few load screens.

 

[Trogdor1123]

So can we agree that the new co-processor is a blast processor?

 

[Trogdor1123]

They have every reason to be worried. Sony overpriced the PS3, overpriced the Vita, and has loaded the PS4 down with so much expensive memory that a $499 price point is not unlikely.

They're fully capable of screwing themselves over at the last minute erasing any gains and good will they'd created up to that point.

You think the vita is overpriced? Really?