tkscz
Member
This is a Gigabowser style of post. Of course it will, no one here is saying it won't. He's comparing it to Steam Deck's RDNA2 based GPU. Of course RDNA4 or 5 will be better. I don't understand why say this.
Digital Foundry : Star Wars Outlaws Switch 2
- Thread starter Buggy Loop
- Start date
Kataploom
Gold Member
Boy, why are you taking it so personal, also 2022? That was just almost 3 years ago, if you told me 10 years ago and they're both the same form factor, ok... But 3 years ago? LOL You people really think tech is as cheap and advances as fast as it did back in the 90s or something? Next Xbox handheld PC will still be RDNA 2
Deerock71
Very Poor Hoice of Wor
By then, the Switch 2 will entrenched with Nintendo exclusives and 3rd parties. We're talking two years down the road at least. That's an eternity.
Zathalus
Member
The PS6 Portable will have the PS5+PS4 library to use right out of the gate, plus PS6 titles. So software will not be a problem. The Switch 2 will almost certainly sell more though.
But I'm strictly referring to technical specifications, the PS6 portable will be using RDNA5+Zen 6 on TSMC N3P, which is a massive leap forward for handhelds.
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Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Switch 2 T239 was taped out in 2021, give or take maybe a few revisions which can happen after with a 2022 final chipset design.
Nvidia tried to sell upper tiers technology but Nintendo sat on that solution all this time.
Also most youtube peoples are using most often than not the SD OLED 2023 6nm TSMC edition which is ~7% faster than OG when comparing to Switch 2.
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Shadowstar39
Member
Where are you seeing this? I just checked everywhere and the tsmc 6nm switch 2 was only a rumor from a few years back. I don't see anywhere where it actually exists.Switch 2 T239 was taped out in 2021, give or take maybe a few revisions which can happen after with a 2022 final chipset design.
Nvidia tried to sell upper tiers technology but Nintendo sat on that solution all this time.
Also most youtube peoples are using most often than not the OLED 2023 6nm TSMC edition which is ~7% faster than OG when comparing to Switch 2.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
The steam deck OLED 6nm TSMC I meant. Switch 2 is of course 8nm Samsung. I thought it was a given considering there's no switch 2 OLED models.
Kataploom
Gold Member
He's talking about Steam Deck OLED, which has higher memory bandwidth IIRC
LordOcidax
Member
I remember some people laughing at the 8-10 nm chip on the Switch 2 when the specs were leaked, saying that the SteamDeck 6 nm chip was way more power efficient and the SW2 was going to have an ancient power hungry chip… What happened? Do the SW2 doubters have at least one win in their technical analysis here?
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thatJohann
Member
Hair is definitely improved in this patch.
naguanatak
Member
Reddit is flooded with people gushing about how great Outlaws is. Suddenly a bad game is great because it runs ok on Switch 2
Bought the game last week and started playing on Friday. Five or six hours in, I ordered the switch 2 version to play at work and with kid 2 on the way in early October, it will give me more possibilities to play at home, too.
PS Portal doesn't work as reliably at work as I wish it would, so back to mostly playing on the Switch 2 it is.
The Portal will be used on the couch when the wife has the TV.
The game is a lot of fun. Yeah, the main character looks weird and isn't very likable. The writing could be better. Disjointed missions and tasks as far as I can tell after couple of hours. But man, it's just dumb fun. Actually the best Star Wars game I've played so far just for the fact that I am an open world fan and they somehow captured the Star Wars atmosphere to my liking. I can inhabit a little place in this world for a time. Of course it could be better, denser... But for me it's enough to enjoy my time with it immensely.
Jedi Fallen Order I finished, it was alright, just not my kind of game. Survivor I started, but put down after ten hours or so. I remember back in the day games on N64 I enjoyed, one SNES if I remember right? The one on 360/PS3 I can't remember the name, where you play as Vader's disciple or something. It was alright.
So yeah, I'm gushing how good this game is, just not on Reddit. And maybe it's still honeymoon period and I'll bounce off it. But I still want to experience it on switch 2 to see how good of a port it is and what this neat little device is capable of. Looking forward to it, it complements the PoE2 sessions atm nicely
call me 'the problem' for paying for a key card and putting money in Ubisofts Pocket (can't even remember the last game from them I played, maybe unity or division 
)Reddit is flooded with people gushing about how great Outlaws is. Suddenly a bad game is great because it runs ok on Switch 2
It launched at 75% Metacritic, and a lot of the complaints that lowered its rating were patched out post launch.
This Switch 2 port has multiple improvements to AI, NPCs, bug fixes and improved stealth gameplay.
It was never a BAD game. And now it's even better
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thatJohann
Member
More hair goodness:
blacktout
Member
More hair goodness:
WB also pushed a patch that improved the weird upscaling hair shimmer in Hogwarts Legacy, though it's still present to some degree. Hopefully this means that "Switch 2 hair" won't become one of this generation's lasting memes.
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LordOcidax
Member
Probably an upgraded version of DLSS was available after launch.
blacktout
Member
This was my thought too. I know there was a rumor that a Switch 2 DLSS update was supposed to drop later this year, but no idea if this is tied to that or just the devs learning some tricks for better DLSS implementation.
when did they push it? I removed the hair from my character because it looks so weird.
Wish they also patched in the option to turn off all map markers, but keep quests ones on, it's kinda ridiculous to know exactly where everything is.
tkscz
Member
I wonder if the patch fixed the RT dithering on the reflections on metal objectsHair is definitely improved in this patch.
It's not that my point. People here say to look at the Steam Deck to claim how shitty is AMD and what a portable beast is Switch 2 with Nvidia gpu. So, will be considered fair when people will start to say what a beast it's the ps6 portable and how shitty is Switch in comparison, in the next future, as Nintendo fans like to do today with the Steam Deck? We will see.
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Buggy Loop
Gold Member
What happened is they don't know how semiconductors work and are used to node % gain metrics seen for marketing purposes which are often just metrics for the performance of a gate only and at the highest clocks.
Nvidia has never used the full density of a node be it Samsung or TSMC, they prefer low density thermals and stability, nor can you even approach theoretical densities most of the time with a reasonable complex architecture but Nvidia is on the lower side.
Switch 2 is large-slow over a narrow-fast design. Complete opposite of say an Apple chipset with small silicon and high clocks or in some similar sense an AMD portable APU found on Steam deck or other PC handhelds.
Voltage drop is DIRECTLY related to smaller nodes where resistance of interconnects within a chip increases. High densities + fast switching speeds (clocks), they're culprits in creating challenges with voltage drops and this is where small nodes are preferable.
So because Nvidia engineers are not newbs (surprised pikachu), they knew already from their Orin AGX platform made for stability, harsh environment, low power, low clocks that it would NOT be impacted as much on samsung 8nm over say paying super expensive prices for TSMC 4nm or something. Even going TSMC 5nm I bet it has not much impact on that architecture. There's leeway in the future for a node reduction and a boost in clocks though for a Pro version. If clocks remain the same, it would have less impacts.
Nope. I warned multiple times about exaggerating the impacts of 8nm. But what do I know, I only studied semiconductors in electrical engineering, but more importantly I'm not even 1/1000th remotely close to the understanding that an Nvidia designer would have to be assigned on an APU and finding the best node for mass production of a potential >100M units device where yields also have big impacts if you're too aggressive. The chipset ended up way more efficient than I thought it would. I kind of knew that low clock chipsets were less impacted but right now its a slaughter. Bring down an AMD portable to 9 Watts to see what happens.
Thinking that Nvidia would drop the ball here is laughable. Just like peoples thinking it won't have enough TOPS for DLSS, or that there's RT hardware there but it'll be so weak that it's not gonna be used other than shadows if even that, dead silicon as if a designer would put ML and RT units on a custom APU if it was not usable.. Peoples calling it a Switch pro...
I've seen it all. All those old argument pillars I've fought are now dust.PS6 portable also will be released in the next 3 years. Let's see if the difference with the Switch 2 will be that irrelevant and what kind excuse will be found by the same fanbase who suddenly is became tech enthusiast.
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Kataploom
Gold Member
Many Nintendo fans are also PC gamers buddy, even PC + Nintendo only, clearly many of us are tech enthusiasts.
This game is showing that many of us were right on predicting the console's capabilities by checking the specs. Whether the console stops getting ports (I don't think that will happen, due to diminishing return) is another story, but the console is very capable.
Hell I can even see Nintendo using RT as a normal thing in their games before anyone else.
SEGAvangelist
Member
I might get this version on a deep sale to finally try the game. I still don't get why they made her so ugly, though. The voice actress is very pretty.
LordOcidax
Member
Obviously you are new around…
Kataploom
Gold Member
It's funny because this game is even using DLSS Performance at 1440p, which basically throws those assumptions to the trash binThinking that Nvidia would drop the ball here is laughable. Just like peoples thinking it won't have enough TOPS for DLSS, or that there's RT hardware there but it'll be so weak that it's not gonna be used other than shadows if even that, dead silicon as if a designer would put ML and RT units on a custom APU if it was not usable.. Peoples calling it a Switch pro...
Yeah I know after Switch 2 nintendo fans are all tech enthusiast. I give them a couple years.
I never said or wished switch 2 stop to have port. Switch 2 has absolutely fine specs but it's not a tech miracle. It just not has competition so win easily.
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LordOcidax
Member
Thread 'Nintendo Wii U supports 1080p, CPU and GPU confirmed'
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/nintendo-wii-u-supports-1080p-cpu-and-gpu-confirmed.477232/
I can go more back if you want… Discussing tech specs or graphics is nothing new in the Nintendo community, specifically here in Neogaf.
Dorfdad
Gold Member
YOU KNOW WHY!
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
With allegedly a new version of DLSS coming by 2025 for Switch 2 improving things further.
LordOcidax
Member
3 months on the market and we are already having this kind of results… Can't wait to see some Nintendo magic. Nvidia chips are in another whole level compared to AMD.
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LordOcidax
Member
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
BTW, free demo of SW outlaws coming for Switch 2
I was not interested into buying the game because of the game.. but I'll definitely download to see the tech!
I was not interested into buying the game because of the game.. but I'll definitely download to see the tech!
LordOcidax
Member
Ubisoft taking all the rights steps with this game on Switch 2 is a great sign (I hope).BTW, free demo of SW outlaws coming for Switch 2
I was not interested into buying the game because of the game.. but I'll definitely download to see the tech!
blacktout
Member
I'm not sure exactly. I started playing it again a week or two ago after setting it down for a while and noticed that the hair shimmer seemed less severe. The pop-in is much improved too. I used to be able to spin the camera in handheld mode and just watch foliage pop in all around me, and now it mostly just happens sometimes in the distance like you'd expect.
Kataploom
Gold Member
It doesn't have to be "tech miracle", nobody is claiming that, it just have to be good enough, but it also has tech not found in other consoles or handheld PCs that make it stand out even more which is Nvidia tech like AI capabilities (DLSS, DLAA, etc.) and dedicated RT hardware. Those alone give the Switch 2 a generational leap against RDNA 2 handheld PCs in RT heavy games, and even give it an edge over XSS, which is more than many of us expected, even the most optimistic ones.
Kataploom
Gold Member
Well, they were, I've been more than happy with my Radeon in my PC but mostly because Nvidia tech wasn't taken much advantage of, it is on Switch 2 tho. Also AMD is finally getting up to par with Nvidia in upscaling and RT, right before next gen comes out so finally those techs will be widespread, I'm quite excited about it honestly, Switch 2 will probably be heavily benefited by it since its hardware RT might get some frequent use.
Signalis
Member
Digishill Foundry
LordOcidax
Member
Is getting up to par with the Nvidia tech from 2023, thats the issue. By next year Nvidia probably is going to announce another crazy new tech.
Kataploom
Gold Member
Nah, they're too focused on actual AI and frame generation (dumb AMD followed thinking it was gonna make it more populars), they lost their minds with the 40 series imo, which gave AMD enough time to basically reach them.
There's a new hair technology that nobody cared about and I don't see how they can revolutionize gaming again except if they make an computationally free PT or something like that. AMD is more than good enough right now.
Now, RDNA 2 vs Ampere+Ada is another story...
MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
Woke Vibes Gaming learned their lesson lol
thatJohann
Member
Really digging the 21:9 cinematic mode, a whole diff vibe.
Deerock71
Very Poor Hoice of Wor
I switched to that yesterday, and it's incredibly cinematic.Really digging the 21:9 cinematic mode, a whole diff vibe.
naguanatak
Member
Really digging the 21:9 cinematic mode, a whole diff vibe.
Used it on PS5 and will definitely play with it on Switch 2
It just fits
Boy bawang
Member
If you really believe that those rumored specs are remotely possible, even in 3 years, at the rumored price, then I have a bridge to sell you.
If Sony releases a portable console in 3 years, and particularly if they don't go for an ARM-based architecture, you may at best get something that will be in between a Series S and a PS5 for about 500 bucks. Which would be great I guess, though I fail to see how this would mesh with a full compatibility with a more classic PS6.
Zathalus
Member
It's 16 CU RDNA5, same size as the current Z2 Extreme chip just with a better architecture. So yes between Series S and the PS5 is about right, just with much better upscaling and RT. As for compatibility that is up for Sony to figure out.
kevboard
Member
???
the specs are possible now... well minus the RDNA5 of course.
but the amount of CPU cores and amount of compute units is literally comparable to already available mobile AMD APUs
BlackTron
Member
"It's not fair to compare these two handhelds that came out three years apart"
"Instead lets wait 3 years for something new to come out and then compare those"
Brilliance