Sure there is a reason, you see more of the world and get to soak up more of the atmosphere. Oh, curiosity as well.
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Dishonored |OT| The belle of the ball
- Thread starter Salsa
- Start date
Sure there is a reason, you see more of the world and get to soak up more of the atmosphere. Oh, curiosity as well.
SJRB
Gold Member
True, but I can see where he's coming from. I also thought the level design in the first half of the game was much better and more open in comparison to the second half.
The point in the game where
you get betrayed
That's not saying it was bad, it just was more streamlined.
MMaRsu
Member
Im at the last mission now
this damn game.. Man it's so good. I've been going through it mostly stealthy killing a few guards here and there. I dealt with a few of my targets in a non lethal way, and while that was fun I cannot wait to replay this game in a more combat focused way. I'm not too great at the swordplay though, but just killing everybody will be a lot of fun.
Really a good game
.
this damn game.. Man it's so good. I've been going through it mostly stealthy killing a few guards here and there. I dealt with a few of my targets in a non lethal way, and while that was fun I cannot wait to replay this game in a more combat focused way. I'm not too great at the swordplay though, but just killing everybody will be a lot of fun.
Really a good game
.Jack Scofield
Member
I'm thinking of renting this game from Redbox tomorrow. I have both PS3 and 360. Is any one version of the game better than the other?
This is a Bethesda game, so I'm assuming the PS3 version is inferior.
This is a Bethesda game, so I'm assuming the PS3 version is inferior.
Arkane Studios developed the game, Bethesda only published it.
The PS3 and 360 versions are pretty much identical.
Jack Scofield
Member
Ah, alright.
Is the 360 version two discs? I know there's too much content to get through on one rental, but I'm just curious.
No it's not. Just seeing what winding path is there is not a good reason to explore. What am I going to find? More useless junk that's automatically converted to money? More health potions when I'm already constantly full? Just another path that takes me to the same place I already got to quicker?
If there's a restaurant 5 minutes away from you would you take a left and drive around neighborhoods for 20 minutes just to prolong your drive? No there has to be a good reason to make you do something that crazy.
Uno Venova
Banned
1 disc.
Caesar III
Member
Fuck it! I did not kill anybody but the game says otherwise. Oh well.
I did not kill anybody but the game says otherwise. Oh well. insane0hflex
Member
Was anyone else kinda...left disappointed with Dishonored? The stealth didn't feel too great - I actually played on the very hard difficulty setting with every HUD thing turned off...and beat the game with relative ease.
I really like the little details that there was no good reason to include but they make the game that much more polished
like with High overseer Campbell.
like with High overseer Campbell.
I've been doing a nonlethal playthrough, and branded that asshole with the heretic mark. So when I get to the Flooded District, at the bottom of the Refinery, I tumble upon a note from the ex-High Overseer. He curses my name for sending him there, and reveals that he has caught the plague now thanks to this. And then, after I finished reading it, I hear some moans and there the high overseer creeps out from around the corner, in newly minted Weeper mode. Brand on his face and all!
This shit is supposed to be the 'low-chaos' method? It's like a billion times worse than just killing him! The shit I did to the Pendleton Brothers is like lifelong torture. Just kill the poor saps instead lol
This shit is supposed to be the 'low-chaos' method? It's like a billion times worse than just killing him! The shit I did to the Pendleton Brothers is like lifelong torture. Just kill the poor saps instead lol
I gave up trying to explain this to people when I was bitching about the exploration in Xenoblade. All there was to find in that empty world was (more) EXP for discovering landmarks, bosses you couldn't kill until later on with the shitty battle system, and minerals that were only useful later in the game when they actually had more of an effect.
In Dishonored, I think the paths are functioning fine with the intention to cater to completely different builds and playstyles. Because of this, they don't necessarily shine their brightest on a single playthrough. Assuming you only play once, their main use would probably just be different angles of approach. Beyond that, I guess they also provide the opportunity to back out and seek another way through if you ever find yourself ill-prepared to continue down road you were going.
I totally agree with your gripes about the exploration in the game. You won't need to explore if you're content with your runes, bone charms, money, and elixirs. It's not like a Metroidvania or some dungeon crawler where poking around will often reward you with something new or interesting. I'm not sure I can knock Dishonored too hard for not having better exploration when what I want most out of it is more stuff like powers. If we could use different weapons we picked up in the environment or found special ability scrolls or whatever lying around, exploration would be much different.
Just finished a non-lethal playthrough. Despite the wonky execution (sometimes had problems blinking and choking someone from behind) at times, it was an enjoyable experience. Props to whoever can do Ghost on every level. I may try that when I have more time. I look forward to Arkane Studios' next game.
I felt Granny Rags's VO was well done, then in the credits I see who did the voice over. Can't say I'm surprised of the quality.
I felt Granny Rags's VO was well done, then in the credits I see who did the voice over. Can't say I'm surprised of the quality.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
Having played through a fair chunk of Dishonored, I can safely say it's the spiritual successor to the Thief games. Eidos Montreal have got their work cut out for them.
masterkajo
Member
I just finished the game. Was good. I enjoyed it though a bit less than I had anticipated.
Also, did anyone else experience some weird things concerning options? While playing I had a day where whenever I load a save it reset all my options to default. This also screwed me over on some of the steam achievements, apparently. Well, no big deal. Will play this game again for sure and this time I will go for the "only blink, no kills and not seen" run. Oh, there will be A LOT of reloading coming my way.
Also, did anyone else experience some weird things concerning options? While playing I had a day where whenever I load a save it reset all my options to default. This also screwed me over on some of the steam achievements, apparently. Well, no big deal. Will play this game again for sure and this time I will go for the "only blink, no kills and not seen" run. Oh, there will be A LOT of reloading coming my way.
No. But I guess it had something to do with the cloud because my PS3 controller was empty so I switched from Bluetooth to USB and Dishonored didn't recognise it anymore. So I closed the game and immediately started it again (I think I didn't give steam enough time to sync with the cloud). The solution was to completely restart steam and then the options stuck.
Anybody know what how to fix the horrible continous buzz that happens sometimes when a PC game crashes? Because, yeah, that's what happens all time while playing Dishonored.
Only thing that seems to fix this is rebboting but I ain't gonna reboot every 15 minutes.
Did you VPN the game before release by any chance? Because I had the same thing happen to me but it went away when it actually released in my region. Guess it couldn't sync the settings with the cloud.
Only thing that seems to fix this is rebboting but I ain't gonna reboot every 15 minutes.
Did you VPN the game before release by any chance? Because I had the same thing happen to me but it went away when it actually released in my region. Guess it couldn't sync the settings with the cloud.
That's probably my biggest gripe on the game. That they try to cater to everyone instead of embracing being pure stealth. That's what I said in the old stealth thread we had, when you try to cater to everyone you end up with a game that doesn't do anything very well or memorable. The different routes in the game don't reward exploration, they reward someone who can't handle a harder stealth room (like a room that might have a ton of dogs for example).
They definitely do but not because of this game. All they've shown as a studio was deus ex HR so that's all I have to go by as far as their talent as a studio. So for Thief 4 they desperately need a better stealth system and FAR better exploration than HR had, which was worse and more pointless than this game's. It doesn't fill me with a lot of hope that they can make a great Thief game because they haven't made a great Deus Ex game yet, just a good one. And I'm not waiting 6-10 years to play just good or ok games in these classic franchises.
Uno Venova
Banned
Yeah it a little disappointing for me as well, the stealth was just serviceable and there's not much fun to be had with sneak and nonlethal, which makes it a little annoying since that's the method the games makes clear it wants you to do.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Ami why do you continue to be my Brutha from another mutha. I just went through something similar during the first mission.
You make it sound like only this game is guilty of this. Pretty much every single open world game, be it racer, shooter, action, etc suffers from the same problem, not to mention RPGs and pretty much any other game with large levels that don't require you to explore every nook and cranny.
This is one of the few games where the whole atmosphere motivated me enough to actually explore. Might be a taste thing as the game in your avatar didn't inspire me to explore at all.
Spot fucking on. Same exact conditions for me, same exact mindset.
Why do you think I think HR had good exploration just because of my avatar? I just think Jensen's more badass than Corvo as a character. Not to mention I just said in my last post that it didn't.
But yeah I said this in the exploration thread that was recently posted as well. Almost no game from this generation does exploration well at all because there's always at least 1 design decision or unbalanced gameplay element that ruins it. Whether it's loot scaling or enemy scaling or making it so you can get 90% of the abilities or not balancing the game economy to handle someone who explores every inch resulting in someone with way more money than the game can support. Almost no one does it well anymore, it's a lost art.
I did until I saw what you wrote in your post after that.
I disagree with your second paragraph. In my experience it's more up to how much I enjoy the way the game fundamentally plays combined with the atmosphere/feel of the world more than anything else that dictates how much I explore.
Witcher 2 didn't inspire me to explore, I enjoyed its atmosphere but not so much the gameplay.
Fallout 3 and Vegas inspire me to explore a heap. Those games combine great gameplay and great atmosphere imo which is why I'll go and check out pretty much every nook and cranny. Even something like a lone bit of unique writing on a wall or a great vista is enough reward for me in these games.
HR's gameplay grabbed me just enough to get me to critical path the game in the most lazy way possible which is in contrast to its atmosphere which I loved.
I spent nearly as much time just finding shit to blow up in Just Cause 2 as I would completing a massive RPG purely because I loved every minute of the gameplay, traversal and action both done so well imo.
What do you think needs to be done to make exploration interesting in these types of games if it isn't the base gameplay and/or atmosphere?
Since we're just talking these types of games, I'll use this Deus Ex and Thief as the primary examples, I think the most important thing is the stealth has to be top notch. I don't feel like it's as good as it could be in HR and Dishonored and I think the main reason is because there are too many powers and over powered abilities that the gameplay is designed around and it makes the game easy.
The balance being ruined also affected HR's exploration because they reward you too much and 70% through the game you can have just about every ability and have some of them leveled up a bit too. There's nothing really useful to buy except praxis kits because everything else can be scavenged easily, mostly because the level design is not as crafty as it was in Deus Ex (the fully detailed map hurts that too). So if there's nothing to buy and you're rewarded too much, optional exploration becomes pointless because you already have everything you need. As far as exploration in terms of completing objectives, I've said many times they didn't do a good job there in the level design. Most rooms can be completed with a vent or a hackable door.
The way I would fix these modern problems in Thief 4 is simply don't have any kind of fancy powers. Give me a bow and a sword and other stealthy items (example being the water arrows to put lights out) and actually design the levels in a clever way. I know that requires a lot of effort and skill on the developer's part but we're in the big leagues, no whining allowed. I also know that without fancy powers you can't market it to the casuals and try to trick them into thinking it's a different game than what it's trying to be. Also without powers there won't be a risk of not balancing the level up system and making your guy Superman. As far as too much loot goes that can be solved by simple numbers. Like instead of putting 10 health potions in a level put 3, or instead of giving us 30 water arrows in a level give us 10. Something along those lines.
It's not easy to do all that, I know. But Deus Ex and Thief 2 weren't created because they were easy to make.
So do it exactly like Thief 1 and 2.
It's crazy that the very first modern example of a stealth game still does it better than everything since. Looking Glass was so great.
Pretty much. I would say try to find a way to add to the old formula since in theory new things should evolve and progress from the foundations of the old but the old stealth/exploration games were so masterfully designed that adding or changing anything runs the risk of becoming Human Revolution or this game. Really it should be like the old games but prettier, with smarter AI if possible and come up with new but equally sprawling and complex labyrinth-like levels.
Confidence Man
Member
There really aren't builds in this game, much less completely different builds, and the game takes great pains to insure you will never be ill-prepared no matter what path you take.
They screwed up by not having mutually exclusive abilities that both expand and restrict what options are available at any given time.
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
It most definitely is, you don't have to play all crazy stealth like.
Example, a mission at a some rich bitches estate, played the mission several different ways. One of those ways involved being really stealthy and then the other involved killing every single guest at the party.
There aren't different builds but there are different pathways to go through that take advantage of different play styles. You have access to everything but you're only taking one approach at any given time.
I started my second playthrough and i'm trying to go no kill this time. So far I have made it to the Golden Cat. It's pretty crazy how different it forces you to play when going no kill.
Awesome game and definitely still feels fresh on multiple plays.
For example when I was trying to go speak with Slack Jaw inside the Distillery. I needed to get past the thugs guarding the entrance to the Distillery, and they never left their post. I tried to throw some glassware down to make noise and get them to move but it didn't work lol
Awesome game and definitely still feels fresh on multiple plays.
You're absolutely right. There's a reason I said "intention"...I don't think this game executed on the ideas behind a lot of stuff too well.
Forcing people to take the first level of blink can be viewed as a misstep (as Riposte pointed out), and I think the reasoning behind not having New Game+ (to promote replays with different skills/approach) is backwards--NG+ should've just been there, and abilities/upgrades should've been handled differently.
Imagine what the game would've been like if we found our abilities, weapons, and upgrades in the environment like randomized bone charms. It'd make every playthrough totally different.
"Approach" is the best word, thanks.
The Xtortionist
Member
They're not hostile
They always attack me on sight.
How do I get this key on the second to last chapter? (
) I can't find any mention of it online, and all the doors leading to that part of the house are blocked off. It seems like it goes outside the map? Maybe I had a glitch and the key reset itself to the origin of the map, lol.
The key is in the green circle, you can barely make out its dark-vision glow in there...
After the flooded sewer when you come back to the pub through cecilia's abandoned apartment.
The key is in the green circle, you can barely make out its dark-vision glow in there...
The Xtortionist
Member
Slackjaw's thugs in mission 3 are non-hostile unless you kill one of them during that mission.
Nope,
the seemingly only way to get to it from inside the apartment is down the stairs and through the first floor, and there are only two doors there, the first door from the flooded district and the second one that cecilia was pushing at before she notices you come in and that on is not a door you can open.
Hmm I didn't kill any but did knock them out so that must be why. Ill have to keep that in kind next time...would have been a lot easier.
I've heard so, but I heard you're actually punished for using a more straightforward and action approach as opposed to stealth.
Not really. Corvo is deadly and it's easy to just mow people down.
D
Deleted member 102362
Unconfirmed Member
Holy crap, I totally missed that. That's awesome.
The game is designed to accommodate both stealth and action playthroughs.
Yeah, this. You actually have more tools at your disposal if you don't want to be stealthy or nonlethal.
D
Deleted member 102362
Unconfirmed Member
Question: for the achievement "Mostly Flesh and Steel," am I allowed to upgrade Blink to level 2? The description is a little fuzzy on this, as you get Blink level 1 for free as part of the game's story.
"Finish the game without purchasing any supernatural powers or enhancements, besides Blink"
"Finish the game without purchasing any supernatural powers or enhancements, besides Blink"