Support NeoGAF

[Deleted member 47027]

"adaptive training" = ???

Art direction is excellent, no doubts about that.

Adaptive training is a pretty broad term but DmC does it really well. A lot of the minor enemies are there not as a challenge to you, but a way for you to play with the system and learn how you can do different things and see the effects in front of you as you play. It's basically the function of a training mode, almost a tutorial, but it's seamless and integrated into the game's actual progression structure so where it feels like you're playing the game, you're really learning how the game works and implementing new ideas as you go, and encourages you to use those new ideas and get used to doing them for the bigger enemies.

Even the load screens are a brilliant design mechanic - showing you things only you can pick up on, like "Oh, I didn't know I could juggle this enemy like that, and then just hit him 3 times in a row with that..." goes a long way, and keeps you out of a horrid tutorial that most players recoil from (myself included)

Long story short, it's just damn good game design. Feels effortless, and that's the idea.

 

[jett]

Oh wow Blood Palace is boring as hell. Is this set on Devil Hunter difficulty? LOLZ

 

[GuardianE]

Oh wow Blood Palace is boring as hell. Is this set on Devil Hunter difficulty? LOLZ

I think it ramps up in difficulty setting as you progress through the levels.

I don't think it did. In fact I think DmC to a certain extent has made Ninja Theory toxic to touch for a few reasons. First off, the way they treated a good deal of DMC fans isn't going to do them any favors going forward. Yeah, you can make the argument that fans never gave them a chance and all that but NT didn't exactly do much to rehabilitate their relationship with those fans. Rather, they poked the sore spot a few times.

They underestimated backlash completely. Capcom kept saying that they were prepared for negative reactions, but I don't think they were. I don't think they realized the extent of what they were doing, and were too far gone to backpedal. With Inafune jumping ship, they lost a scapegoat. Tameem should have kept his mouth shut during and after the reveal, but again, I think this is part of them all underestimating how much people cared about the previous series, so they didn't think that their depreciative comments would incite any anger.

 

[Sephzilla]

Adaptive training is a pretty broad term but DmC does it really well. A lot of the minor enemies are there not as a challenge to you, but a way for you to play with the system and learn how you can do different things and see the effects in front of you as you play. It's basically the function of a training mode, almost a tutorial, but it's seamless and integrated into the game's actual progression structure so where it feels like you're playing the game, you're really learning how the game works and implementing new ideas as you go, and encourages you to use those new ideas and get used to doing them for the bigger enemies.

Even the load screens are a brilliant design mechanic - showing you things only you can pick up on, like "Oh, I didn't know I could juggle this enemy like that, and then just hit him 3 times in a row with that..." goes a long way, and keeps you out of a horrid tutorial that most players recoil from (myself included)

Long story short, it's just damn good game design. Feels effortless, and that's the idea.

So..... it's doing a basic thing most action games do?

 

[GuardianE]

So..... it's doing a basic thing most action games do?

Yeah, besides the loading screens that's really nothing special whatsoever.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

So..... it's doing a basic thing most action games do?

It's doing things action games SHOULD do. The difference is that DmC does it extraordinarily well.

 

[SnakeLinkSonic]

Oh wow Blood Palace is boring as hell. Is this set on Devil Hunter difficulty? LOLZ

It changes around each tier. For example, after you get to level 80, the enemies are Dante Must Die difficulty and gain a trigger.

Be warned though, as AwakenedCloud pointed out, it's buggy as hell for most people I've talked to. The game conked out on me 5 times at the exact same spot at level 100 before I actually got to finally beat it.

 

[Sephzilla]

It's doing things action games SHOULD do. The difference is that DmC does it extraordinarily well.

The only games that really don't do that are the exceptionally bad ones. And that's reaching down into the Onichanbara tier of games. The loading screen thing was a nice touch though, I'll definitely give you that (even if Bayonetta kind of did it first). Granted, personally I'd sacrifice those nice loading screens with less loading.

 

[jett]

It changes around each tier For example, after you get to level 80, the enemies are Dante Must Die difficulty and gain a trigger.

Be warned though, as AwakenedCloud pointed out, it's buggy as hell for most people I've talked to. The game conked out on me 5 times at the exact same spot at level 100 before I actually got to finally beat it.

Thanks, and yeah I don't think I'll be playing more of this. No wonder it's free.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

The only games that really don't do that are the exceptionally bad ones. And that's reaching down into the Onichanbara tier of games. The loading screen thing was a nice touch though, I'll definitely give you that (even if Bayonetta kind of did it first). Granted, personally I'd sacrifice those nice loading screens with less loading.

I only see em for a couple seconds, I'm on PC so it's pretty quick for me.

It's not really a question of "only bad games don't do this" it's more the level of how its being done, but I'm definitely not going to get into it any further.

Bayonetta did have a nice training mode during loads and I'm happy with that too - anything that has me doing ANYTHING except sitting and waiting is nice, but both of those examples are good alternatives that go beyond reading a splash screen or spinning a loading logo.

 

[Sephzilla]

I only see em for a couple seconds, I'm on PC so it's pretty quick for me.

It's not really a question of "only bad games don't do this" it's more the level of how its being done, but I'm definitely not going to get into it any further.

Bayonetta did have a nice training mode during loads and I'm happy with that too - anything that has me doing ANYTHING except sitting and waiting is nice, but both of those examples are good alternatives that go beyond reading a splash screen or spinning a loading logo.

I was about to say, how are the load times on the PC version? I played the game on PS3, and it would usually loop through those loading screens two or three times for me depending on the level.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

I was about to say, how are the load times on the PC version? I played the game on PS3, and it would usually loop through those loading screens two or three times for me depending on the level.

My roommate has the 360 version and I was a little surprised how long they went on. PC version was really treated well, and 60fps <3

 

[Sephzilla]

My roommate has the 360 version and I was a little surprised how long they went on. PC version was really treated well, and 60fps <3

If the PC version ever hits the 10-15 dollar range on Steam I might pick it up then (and mod the shit out of it)

 

[Deleted member 47027]

If the PC version ever hits the 10-15 dollar range on Steam I might pick it up then (and mod the shit out of it)

We've got some dudes in the Buy/Sell/Trade thread with keys for approx $23 if you don't wanna wait.

I haven't even looked at any mods, but someone was talking about a speed mod that cuts out all cutscenes, all unskippable scenes, and all the "walking with Kat but can't DO anything" spots.

I am glad Bloody Palace is a very fast affair, and you can churn through it really quickly with no lulls, unlike DMC4's.

 

[danmaku]

The PC version is great, the loading is almost non-existant (I never saw the end of any combo example in that loading screen lol - but it gave me some nice ideas) and it's 60 real fps. Also, it looks gorgeous. Rising is a blurry mess in comparison (unfair, but I'm playing both games and the difference is stunning).

 

[Sephzilla]

We've got some dudes in the Buy/Sell/Trade thread with keys for approx $23 if you don't wanna wait.

I haven't even looked at any mods, but someone was talking about a speed mod that cuts out all cutscenes, all unskippable scenes, and all the "walking with Kat but can't DO anything" spots.

I am glad Bloody Palace is a very fast affair, and you can churn through it really quickly with no lulls, unlike DMC4's.

I'll just wait for Steam summer sale season, thanks though! MGR is stealing all of my time and God of War is on the horizon.

If I could mod the game at all I'd probably just change all of the dialogue to be inexplicable jibberish, change the music, and maybe put Uncle Dante in or something.

I guess we're just different minds with Bloody Palace. I liked that DMC4 Bloody Palace was an investment, it's one of the big things that keeps bringing me back to that game.

 

[SnakeLinkSonic]

We've got some dudes in the Buy/Sell/Trade thread with keys for approx $23 if you don't wanna wait.

I haven't even looked at any mods, but someone was talking about a speed mod that cuts out all cutscenes, all unskippable scenes, and all the "walking with Kat but can't DO anything" spots.

I am glad Bloody Palace is a very fast affair, and you can churn through it really quickly with no lulls, unlike DMC4's.

Fucking Blitzes.

I do miss the post-level 60 intensity DMC4's BP had though.

Even at level 80 in DmC, the only thing that annoyed me were how they paired enemies, not necessarily the enemies themselves.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

I'll just wait for Steam summer sale season. MGR is stealing all of my time and God of War is on the horizon.

If I could mod the game at all I'd probably just change all of the dialogue to be inexplicable jibberish, change the music, and maybe put Uncle Dante in or something.

I guess we're just different minds with Bloody Palace. I liked that DMC4 Bloody Palace was an investment, it's one of the big things that keeps bringing me back to that game.

I dive into BP just to kill a handful of dudes with the scythe just so I can hear that SHIIIING when it levels up. Little touches like that, man, I can't get enough of that sound.

 

[Vossler]

PC version is sublime when downsampled from 2560 x 1440 maxed out. I really need to finish this game!

And agreed, Rising outside of the character models is quite blurry....But still fun.

 

[ezekial45]

I don't think it did. In fact I think DmC to a certain extent has made Ninja Theory toxic to touch for a few reasons. First off, the way they treated a good deal of DMC fans isn't going to do them any favors going forward. Yeah, you can make the argument that fans never gave them a chance and all that but NT didn't exactly do much to rehabilitate their relationship with those fans. Rather, they poked the sore spot a few times.

Secondly, this is their third flop in a row and arguably their biggest flop yet. Heavenly Sword and Enslaved had built-in excuses since they were new IPs, but now Ninja Theory has brought down an established franchise that was one of the best sellers in its genre. DmC isn't even going to get close to Capcom's revised 1.2 million sales marker, sales wise it was dead before MGR even came out. Heck, there's an outside shot that DmC might end up as NT's worst selling game overall.

Ninja Theory has effectively made themselves pariahs to a certain extent. The whole "DmC fan venom" is going to follow them, and publishers are going to be pretty hesitant to bring them on board because of that and because Ninja Theory has a very poor cost-to-profit ratio. The reason studios like Platinum and FromSoftware keep getting work despite meager profits are because they can put out respectable products with a substantially smaller budget - something I don't think Ninja Theory can do.

-------------------------

In regards to the quality of DmC itself. I dunno, I thought it was an okay-at-best game and I don't even think it's Ninja Theory's best work. From a gameplay perspective DmC is their best gameplay so far, but in all honesty all that did was vault them up from having games with mediocre/bad gameplay to "okay" gameplay. Honestly, I still think Heavenly Sword is Ninja Theory's best game. It's got the best balance of good gameplay and good storytelling. Enslaved had a better story but had abysmal gameplay in my opinion, and DmC might have better gameplay but it has one of the most poorly built stories I've seen in a long time.

In the overall spectrum of action games I think DmC is on Dante's Inferno tier (haha, Dante). It's okay at best, but it's clearly not on the same tiers as a God of War, DMC-Proper, or Bayonetta.

I know, you'll all look at me and say "haters gonna hate". I played the full game and judged it both on its own merits and compared it to the other DMC games. Through both lenses I thought the game was fairly pedestrian. There are a bunch of action titles that are substantially better and there are a few DMC games that are substantially better (personally, I liked DMC4 better as well by factor of it having a deeper combat system and generally having a sense of humor I liked more).

Truthfully the main reason I played this game was out of obligation, as it had "Devil May Cry" in the title. Even though I wasn't fond of the direction it was going in I wanted to give it a chance since I was a fan of the franchise. If this reboot and all of the brouhaha around it happened to any other franchise that I didn't care about nearly as much, and the final product was similar to this, I probably wouldn't have even given the game the time of day because it looked like a game I wouldn't spend sixty bucks on.
-------------------------

*Sigh* There are times like this where I felt like I played a completely different game than everyone else. I'll agree that the art design in DmC is pretty damn great (it's probably the standout great thing of the game in my opinion). But the level designs? Eh... the level designs (note: the actual layout of the stages, not the artistic portions of it) are very comparable to DMC2.

I also kind of think DmC's platforming is a tad over-rated. It's not bad platforming, dont think I'm saying that. But there's absolutely no challenge in the platforming, it's just a glorified QTE.

They're already working on their next game. Whether that's with Capcom or another publisher, they've clearly demonstrated they can deliver on a solid product. And despite what's been said by people who have an axe to grind, NT proved to be good to work with, and they have a consistent record to show that. DmC was Capcom's highest rated title in a long time. They'll be fine. The quality of the games is what matters, and because they're independent they'll continue to get work when publishers are interested. Which they clearly are. They are not the pariahs that you want to believe they are.

PG never had a hit until MGR, so does that reflect on the quality of their games, vision, or fatigue in the action genre? Cause I'm sure Sega lost money on that exclusivity deal PG. When you think about it, PG and NT are a lot alike. And they also have mutual respect for each other (despite what fans want to believe). The difference now is that PG finally got their hit.

But you do bring up a good point about people following. This whole process has shown that there are a lot of idiots in this fan base that have shown nothing by contempt for NT, and a number of them want to see NT shuttered. Which just makes me embarrassed to be a DMC fan.

Also, did you even want to like this game? Be honest, please. I'm reading your criticisms and they all sound extremely over the top. I've played the exact same games you did and I don't agree with a word you said. The majority of the criticisms brought against is "it's not like the past DMC games, therefore it's terrible". This game is miles above DMC2 or Dante's Inferno. Saying they're on the same level is just ridiculous, to me anyway.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

They're already working on their next game. Whether that's with Capcom or another publisher, they've clearly demonstrated they can deliver on a solid product. And despite what's been said by people who have an axe to grind, NT proved to be good to work with, and they have a consistent record to show that. DmC was Capcom's highest rated title in a long time. They'll be fine. The quality of the games is what matters, and because they're independent they'll continue to get work when publishers are interested. Which they clearly are. They are not the pariahs that you want to believe they are.

PG never had a hit until MGR, so does that reflect on the quality of their games, vision, or fatigue in the action genre? Cause I'm sure Sega lost money on that exclusivity deal PG. When you think about it, PG and NT are a lot alike. And they also have mutual respect for each other (despite what fans want to believe). The difference now is that PG finally got their hit.

But you do bring up a good point about people following. This whole process has shown that there are a lot of idiots in this fan base that have shown nothing by contempt for NT, and a number of them want to see NT shuttered. Which just makes me embarrassed to be a DMC fan.

Also, did you even want to like this game? Be honest, please. I'm reading your criticisms and they all sound extremely over the top. I've played the exact same games you did and I don't agree with a word you said. The majority of the criticisms brought against is "it's not like the past DMC games, therefore it's terrible". This game is miles above DMC2 or Dante's Inferno. Saying they're on the same level is just ridiculous, to me anyway.

There literally is no studio more diametrically opposed to what I enjoy from games than Ninja Theory. They are one of the few studios I can think of where (at least after the release of this game) the gaming universe would actually be better off if they had never existed.

 

[ezekial45]

There literally is no studio more diametrically opposed to what I enjoy from games than Ninja Theory. They are one of the few studios I can think of where (at least after the release of this game) the gaming universe would actually be better off if they had never existed.

You are so fucking full of shit. It's amazing.

 

[GuardianE]

PG never had a hit until MGR, so does that reflect on the quality of their games, vision, or fatigue in the action genre? Cause I'm sure Sega lost money on that exclusivity deal PG. When you think about it, PG and NT are a lot alike. And they also have mutual respect for each other (despite what fans want to believe). The difference now is that PG finally got their hit.

The parallels between NT and PG, most notably between DmC and MGR, aren't lost on anyone. But despite what they share, their fundamental core focus couldn't be more different. I think that's what the crux of the matter is, and that's what has ultimately sprouted this rivalry in sales between DmC and MGR... I don't think it's a poor barometer either.

As for being embarrassed by the fanbase, this would happen with any major departure and complete abandonment of a notable franchise's core design and gameplay strengths. This is the internet, where communication flows freely, both positive and offensive. DmC had something to prove. Some people think it succeeded, and some people think it didn't. It was Capcom and Ninja Theory's jobs to make sure that more people thought it proved itself than people who didn't.

Look at Tomb Raider and Hitman, though I would argue that neither Tomb Raider nor Hitman attempted their reboots during the arguable apex of popularity like DMC did (I don't swallow the bullshit about DMC stagnating because this convenient lie contradicts far too much data. It's just Inafune's garbage.), nor did they make such drastic changes to the art direction. If Mario came out with a dark, gritty reboot, pitchforks and torches ahoy in the form of homophobic and racial commentary.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

You are so fucking full of shit. It's amazing.

You are in a thread that has been pretty much intensely negative from beginning to end. The game sucks, this thread is dead, the game flopped, the series is possibly dead, and Ninja Theory is the only party responsible for it.

 

[V_Arnold]

You are in a thread that has been pretty much intensely negative from beginning to end. The game sucks, this thread is dead, the game flopped, the series is possibly dead, and Ninja Theory is the only party responsible for it.

What a great delusion you have there.
The flop part might be true, anything else is pure bullshit.
Especially NT being responsible for the future (or lack of future) for the DMC franchise.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

You are in a thread that has been pretty much intensely negative from beginning to end. The game sucks, this thread is dead, the game flopped, the series is possibly dead, and Ninja Theory is the only party responsible for it.

 

[Sephzilla]

They're already working on their next game. Whether that's with Capcom or another publisher, they've clearly demonstrated they can deliver on a solid product. And despite what's been said by people who have an axe to grind, NT proved to be good to work with, and they have a consistent record to show that. DmC was Capcom's highest rated title in a long time. They'll be fine. The quality of the games is what matters, and because they're independent they'll continue to get work when publishers are interested. Which they clearly are. They are not the pariahs that you want to believe they are.

PG never had a hit until MGR, so does that reflect on the quality of their games, vision, or fatigue in the action genre? Cause I'm sure Sega lost money on that exclusivity deal PG. When you think about it, PG and NT are a lot alike. And they also have mutual respect for each other (despite what fans want to believe). The difference now is that PG finally got their hit.

But you do bring up a good point about people following. This whole process has shown that there are a lot of idiots in this fan base that have shown nothing by contempt for NT, and a number of them want to see NT shuttered. Which just makes me embarrassed to be a DMC fan.

Also, did you even want to like this game? Be honest, please. I'm reading your criticisms and they all sound extremely over the top. I've played the exact same games you did and I don't agree with a word you said. The majority of the criticisms brought against is "it's not like the past DMC games, therefore it's terrible". This game is miles above DMC2 or Dante's Inferno. Saying they're on the same level is just ridiculous, to me anyway.

They're only working on their next game because they got paid in advanced to make DmC (whomever at Capcom OK'd that must have been drunk). Heavenly Sword and Enslaved both almost put Ninja Theory under. PG never had a hit until MGR, but people kept hiring them because they were also very budget friendly and were never really at risk of going belly up - something Ninja Theory is definitely not.

Comparing Ninja Theory and Platinum is a bit laughable, if you ask me. Beyond the fact that their games underperform (at least until MGR), they're pretty dissimilar. Platinum is a budget friendly studio who prioritize gameplay over everything else while Ninja Theory is a budget cow who prioritize artistic qualities over quality gameplay.

Also, DmC is Capcoms highest rated game since... what... Marvel vs Capcom 3? Resident Evil 5? That's not that long at all and it's not like they didn't release other stuff in-between that wasnt liked (Dragons Dogma). Even then, it got pretty much the same reviews as DMC4. The game people suddenly claimed murdered the franchise.

I didn't want to like it but I didn't want to hate it either. I was fairly "meh" coming into DmC because it really just looked like a mediocre game. I went into it with few expectations beyond the norm, and DmC didn't do much to marvel me outside of having some pretty great moments of artistic design.

It's not that DmC is a mediocre DMC game. It's a mediocre game in general. It has a laughably bad story that was lauded as some genre defying work of art, has acting that is sub par, gameplay that's basic by action game standards, and the least challenging and hand-holding platforming possible.

And if you look at it from the perspective of a DMC game (which you should, given that it's a DMC game), it strips away a lot of gameplay aspects that contributed to the depth of the combat, adds pretty much nothing itself. And on top of that it takes away a lot of other thing DMC was lauded for - its difficulty. The game doesn't remotely start feeling like a DMC game until Son of Sparda mode or higher, but the problem is that on the harder modes the gameplay engine really starts to show its faults.

DmC's a game that takes its franchise back a step or two and does nothing that other games in this genre don't already do better. In my book that's the definition of a mediocre or okay game and why I put on the same tier as the Dante's Infernos of the world.

 

[ezekial45]

The parallels between NT and PG, most notably between DmC and MGR, aren't lost on anyone. But despite what they share, their fundamental core focus couldn't be more different. I think that's what the crux of the matter is, and that's what has ultimately sprouted this rivalry in sales between DmC and MGR... I don't think it's a poor barometer either.

As for being embarrassed by the fanbase, this would happen with any major departure and complete abandonment of a notable franchise's core design and gameplay strengths. This is the internet, where communication flows freely, both positive and offensive. DmC had something to prove. Some people think it succeeded, and some people think it didn't. It was Capcom and Ninja Theory's jobs to make sure that more people thought it proved itself than people who didn't.

Look at Tomb Raider and Hitman, though I would argue that neither Tomb Raider nor Hitman attempted their reboots during the arguable apex of popularity like DMC did (I don't swallow the bullshit about DMC stagnating because this convenient lie contradicts far too much data. It's just Inafune's garbage.). If Mario came out with a dark, gritty reboot, pitchforks and torches ahoy in the form of homophobic and racial commentary.

This all just reminds me of RE:ORC. It wasn't a reboot, but sorta an alternate take on the series. People give DmC crap, but ORC was a game worthy of heavy criticism and was a betrayal of the RE lore because it directly linked itself to established content. Yet that game performed well.

GE, despite our differences we both wanted what's best. I got what I wanted with DmC. I was satisfied with it, and I do believe it's a worthy entry in the series. But this whole ordeal has made it difficult to enjoy the games because it has seemed to inspire such hatred. It sorta just kills my enthusiasm. If that makes sense.

With that said, I'm glad it's over now.

You are in a thread that has been pretty much intensely negative from beginning to end. The game sucks, this thread is dead, the game flopped, the series is possibly dead, and Ninja Theory is the only party responsible for it.

If that'll deny you DMC5, then good. Your attitude is appalling, and quite frankly you don't deserve a DMC game you think you're entitled to.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

If that'll deny you DMC5, then good. Your attitude is appalling, and quite frankly you don't deserve a DMC game you think you're entitled to.

I would much rather the series be dead officially than for NT to continue defiling the corpse. It deserves a better fate than Silent Hill.

 

[GuardianE]

This all just reminds me of RE:ORC. It wasn't a reboot, but sorta an alternate take on the series. People give DmC crap, but ORC was a game worthy of heavy criticism and was a betrayal of the RE lore because it directly linked itself to established content. Yet that game performed well.

GE, despite our differences we both wanted what's best. I got what I wanted with DmC. I was satisfied with it, and I do believe it's a worthy entry in the series. But this whole ordeal has made it difficult to enjoy the games because it has seemed to inspire such hatred. It sorta just kills my enthusiasm. If that makes sense.

Except all signs point to DmC being a replacement of DMC. Someone had even mentioned how DmC's save files reference it being DMC5. Capcom never came out and said what DmC was because they were afraid to. They didn't want to corner themselves into committing that DmC was the future of the franchise, they didn't want to commit to it being a side story, and they didn't want to commit to it being an origin story. Instead, they relied on vague statements that simply allowed everyone to assume the worst. Frankly, they probably didn't know what the hell DmC was, and were waiting to see the final product and sales data before deciding... they were just following Inafune's master Westernization plan.

RE:ORC was never advertised as a replacement to mainline RE, and it was established before release that RE6 was being worked on. It was also established as non-canon pretty early, so it couldn't even be lambasted like some MGS fans are doing with MGR. RE:ORC was a silly, stupid mistake on a lot of levels and an unfortunate financial success. But they're certainly wearing that RE name exceedingly thin at this point.

With that said, I'm glad it's over now.

Agreed. Well, until Capcom's next announcement, anyway. What's done is done. Where Capcom goes from here simply decides whether I'm along for the ride anymore.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

I'm fine with DmC being the new direction for the series, for good. DMC4 felt tired in a lot of spots. I didn't feel that same fatigue anywhere in DmC, but some of that was due to some very good pacing and a lack of confusion in direction.

 

[Sephzilla]

I'm fine with DmC being the new direction for the series, for good. DMC4 felt tired in a lot of spots. I didn't feel that same fatigue anywhere in DmC, but some of that was due to some very good pacing and a lack of confusion in direction.

DMC4's problem was that Capcom rushed the development of it. Something that can easily happen with DmC as well especially if they want another DmC game out by 2015.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

DMC4's problem was that Capcom rushed the development of it. Something that can easily happen with DmC as well especially if they want another DmC game out by 2015.

Thinking back to DMC4...my god, some of those character designs were so atrocious

 

[Sephzilla]

Thinking back to DMC4...my god, some of those character designs were so atrocious

Any examples? I liked the design of 4

 

[GuardianE]

DMC4's problem was that Capcom rushed the development of it. Something that can easily happen with DmC as well especially if they want another DmC game out by 2015.

Replacing DMC was always a bad decision. Capcom just didn't realize it. DmC should have been a new series.

Any examples? I liked the design of 4

Same. And quite frankly, I can talk about "atrocious character designs" in DmC.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Any examples? I liked the design of 4

Your mileage may vary, but

 

[Sephzilla]

Replacing DMC was always a bad decision. Capcom just didn't realize it. DmC should have been a new series.

Or they should have announced a proper DMC5 alongside DmC and ran both series simultaneously kind of like how they ran with both Mega Man and Mega Man X for a while.

Telling your fanbase "You dont want that anymore, you want this instead" was a mindbogglingly bad decision.

Your mileage may vary, but

Aww, that guy was fantastic.

 

[fi1ip]

Check out this combo video. Some pretty interesting stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiUiazwVG2E

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Aww, that guy was fantastic.

Personality wise he was interesting, and horrible, but neat. But visually, I want to just vomit.

 

[Sephzilla]

Personality wise he was interesting, and horrible, but neat. But visually, I want to just vomit.

I can't think of a different way to design him though I guess. He's a big dude who has to wear one of The Order's uniforms.

This all just reminds me of RE:ORC. It wasn't a reboot, but sorta an alternate take on the series. People give DmC crap, but ORC was a game worthy of heavy criticism and was a betrayal of the RE lore because it directly linked itself to established content. Yet that game performed well.

RE:ORC was a non-canon spinoff title. It wasn't touted as a replacement for the traditional Resident Evil series and the people making the game didn't (potentially inadvertently) crap on the original games it was based on or say things that would anger fans. Like Revengeance, people were more okay with RE:ORC because they new they were still getting the main thing they cared about.

DMC fans got what they liked tossed aside and got a game that really didn't carry over much of the things that made these people fans of the series in the first place.

 

[ezekial45]

I would much rather the series be dead officially than for NT to continue defiling the corpse. It deserves a better fate than Silent Hill.

That was exactly the narcissistic and spoiled answer I expected from you. We're done here.

They're only working on their next game because they got paid in advanced to make DmC (whomever at Capcom OK'd that must have been drunk). Heavenly Sword and Enslaved both almost put Ninja Theory under. PG never had a hit until MGR, but people kept hiring them because they were also very budget friendly and were never really at risk of going belly up - something Ninja Theory is definitely not.

Comparing Ninja Theory and Platinum is a bit laughable, if you ask me. Beyond the fact that their games underperform (at least until MGR), they're pretty dissimilar. Platinum is a budget friendly studio who prioritize gameplay over everything else while Ninja Theory is a budget cow who prioritize artistic qualities over quality gameplay.

Also, DmC is Capcoms highest rated game since... what... Marvel vs Capcom 3? Resident Evil 5? That's not that long at all and it's not like they didn't release other stuff in-between that wasnt liked (Dragons Dogma). Even then, it got pretty much the same reviews as DMC4. The game people suddenly claimed murdered the franchise.

I didn't want to like it but I didn't want to hate it either. I was fairly "meh" coming into DmC because it really just looked like a mediocre game. I went into it with few expectations beyond the norm, and DmC didn't do much to marvel me outside of having some pretty great moments of artistic design.

It's not that DmC is a mediocre DMC game. It's a mediocre game in general. It has a laughably bad story that was lauded as some genre defying work of art, has acting that is sub par, gameplay that's basic by action game standards, and the least challenging and hand-holding platforming possible.

And if you look at it from the perspective of a DMC game (which you should, given that it's a DMC game), it strips away a lot of gameplay aspects that contributed to the depth of the combat, adds pretty much nothing itself. And on top of that it takes away a lot of other thing DMC was lauded for - its difficulty. The game doesn't remotely start feeling like a DMC game until Son of Sparda mode or higher, but the problem is that on the harder modes the gameplay engine really starts to show its faults.

DmC's a game that takes its franchise back a step or two and does nothing that other games in this genre don't already do better. In my book that's the definition of a mediocre or okay game and why I put on the same tier as the Dante's Infernos of the world.

Once again, I profoundly disagree with everything you said, but you also missed a few of my point.

1. I don't understand how you think that NT is at risk of going under. They broke even on HS, and while Enslaved didn't do well, they had another project lined up (DmC). If you're thinking about their past bankruptcy, when they were as Just Add Monsters, then that was because of their publisher Argonaut Games had gone under -- which would've pulled them under too if they hadn't filled for bankruptcy and rebranded themselves as Ninja Theory. That's how it happened.

Did you know that they increased staff for their new mobile games division? They're making console/PC titles in addition to mobile games, that's hardly a sign of a studio in trouble. Like I said, publishers want to work with them, and because of that they'll stay around. That's the benefit of being independent.

But I think what needs to be said is that it's not a black and white issue. There's a lot more things going on than we certainly know, and only NT would know that for certain.

2. I made the parallels because of their independence, focus on a particular style of games, and lackluster sales record. There are similarities there.

3. Considering Capcom's rough 2012 (with big exceptions to DD and SFxT), DmC was a very well received title, critically speaking. It's got a good score on Metacritics, which is a indicator for publisher to look at (they dish out bonuses for developers depending on how well it scores). You can nitpick all you want, but it got good scores. And considering how flaky western devs have been to them in the past, I'm sure this was a sigh of relief for them. They even said they want to work with them.

With all due respect, a number of your claims seem to be a creation of your own distaste from this game. Which is just unfair.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

That was exactly the narcissistic and spoiled answer I expected from you. We're done here.

Will you be defending this bad game to your grave?

 

[Sephzilla]

Once again, I profoundly disagree with everything you said, but you also missed a few of my point.

1. I don't understand how you think that NT is at risk of going under. They broke even on HS, and while Enslaved didn't do well, they had another project lined up (DmC). If you're thinking about their past bankruptcy, when they were as Just Add Monsters, then that was because of their publisher Argonaut Games had gone under -- which would've pulled them under too if they hadn't filled for bankruptcy and rebranded themselves as Ninja Theory. That's how it happened.

Did you know that they increased staff for their new mobile games division? They're making console/PC titles in addition to mobile games, that's hardly a sign of a studio in trouble. Like I said, publishers want to work with them, and because of that they'll stay around. That's the benefit of being independent.

But I think what needs to be said is that it's not a black and white issue. There's a lot more things going on than you or I think.

2. I made the parallels because of their independence, focus on a particular style of games, and lackluster sales record. There are similarities there.

3. Considering Capcom's rough 2012 (with big exceptions to DD and SFxT), DmC was a very well received title, critically speaking. It's got a good score on Metacritics, which is a indicator for publisher to look at (they dish out bonuses for developers depending on how well it scores). You can nitpick all you want, but it got good scores. And considering how flaky western devs have been to them in the past, I'm sure this was a sigh of relief for them. They even said they want to work with them.

With all due respect, a number of your claims seem to be a creation of your own distaste from this game. Which is just unfair.

On point one - My apologies, I stand corrected on that one a little bit. However, Heavenly Sword and Enslaved both did prevent expansion of the studio (Enslaved actually caused them to downsize)

2- Those are pretty basic similarities and after those three things you mentioned they go down very different paths.

3- Capcom's rough 2012 was primarily just because they over-budgeted the hell out of Resident Evil 6. Beyond that, their 2012 wasn't that bad at all.

The thing is, I'm not even nitpicking when it comes to certain things. There are pretty big issues when it comes to DmC both in gameplay and in story and the fact that some reviews barely even touch on it makes me raise an eyebrow (hell, Game Informers review barely even mentions that this game has a story).

With all due respect I think to a certain degree you just don't want to accept that DmC has a good deal of problems. You can say I'm nitpicking all you want and that I never gave the game a chance (despite the fact that I've told people that for 15-20 bucks DmC its a decent buy), but the stuff I'm complaining about in DmC are things that actually exist.

That was exactly the narcissistic and spoiled answer I expected from you. We're done here.

If that'll deny you DMC5, then good. Your attitude is appalling, and quite frankly you don't deserve a DMC game you think you're entitled to.

I really hope you understand that comments like these make you look no better than MTMBStudios. I'm not defending or siding with him at all, I'm just saying that all you're doing right now is verifying that there are people on the pro-DmC side of the fence who are just as bad as people who are extremely anti-DmC. I know this is the internet, but just take the high road.

 

[Q8D3vil]

Just finished it (PC 1080p 60 fps 3D vision), im glad i played this on pc because the art is so much better in 3d. The combat was nice and switching up the weapons was very smooth.

i remember dmc 4 having better weapons and combos, but i need to replay that to be sure.
Fun game tbh, much better than what i expected.
3 > 1 > 4 > DMC > 2

 

[Risible]

Didn't realize how much controversy there was surrounding this game. I knew there was some, just hadn't realized how incensed people were.

I've never played any of the previous games, but have always wanted to. So this is the opinion of someone coming in cold. Generally speaking, though, I like 3rd person action games.

I thought the game was a blast. The combat was exciting and the story was goofy fun. The voice acting was for the most part very good. The cutscenes were well done.

I'd give it an easy 8/10.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Your mileage may vary, but

trying way way too hard.


if you had said:-

or

or

then maybe you would have a point.

But angus, especially his human form > The bosses in DmC bar Vergil

 

[Dahbomb]

Check out this combo video. Some pretty interesting stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiUiazwVG2E

Neat. That juggle on the Butcher enemy was swag status.

Gloria was awful. Echidna and Faust were alright...

Ezekial please just put MTMB on Ignore if you can't stand him.

 

[Sephzilla]

trying way way too hard.


if you had said:-


http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu258/DMC4-Screenshotz/DMC4%20Missions%208-14/shot15-5.jpg[IMG]

or

[IMG]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120508085226/devilmaycry/pl/images/5/50/Cg_echidna_1.jpg[IMG]

or

[IMG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PO_2BnXcYus/Tj9uRveZtMI/AAAAAAAAAik/cdJ1-nFQIzs/s1600/gloria-Devil-May-Cry-4.jpg[IMG]

then maybe you would have a point.

But angus, especially his human form > The bosses in DmC bar Vergil[/QUOTE]

WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA

WHAT THE F*CK IS WRONG WITH FREDDY KRUEGER DEMON AND GLORIA!?

 

[Dahbomb]

Yea let's post a picture of the Faust that actually makes sense:

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA

WHAT THE F*CK IS WRONG WITH FREDDY KRUEGER DEMON AND GLORIA!?

Freddy Kruger demon? you just illustrated my point.

Gloria is just odious.

NB:- Im not saying any Character design in DMC4 is bad, in fact I think that's one thing the game got right.

I'm just point out there are worst things in the game than angus.