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Do you think that Sony should make a proper handheld instead of screwing around with this glorified remote play accessory?
- Thread starter Drizzlehell
- Start date
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
As a huge Vita/PSP fan (own both) I'd say no.
PS4 portable itch is perfectly covered by Steam Deck. In this scenario Sony is spending money solely on PC port and Steam Deck certification w/o the huge undertaking of the dedicated hardware support. In current climate, dedicated handheld is a waste of hardware and software resources even in the games are just PS4 targets. Sony found it's second platform with VR and I like it way more than wasting energy on a lost cause of beating Nintendo, smartphones and portable PCs.
'Dumb' remote play device, on the other hand, sounds interesting. Especially if it will traget in $150-200. Just like DS Edge, it's just an accessory and you don't need to divert a whole lot of people and resources to support it for a generation with games, OS and all that other stuff.
Today's Sony is bnuilding everything around PS5. PS5 is covered? Then VR is covered, PC ports of PS5 games are covered and even remote play is covered too. They've learned their lessons with supporting PS3/Vita and PS4 simultaneously.
PS4 portable itch is perfectly covered by Steam Deck. In this scenario Sony is spending money solely on PC port and Steam Deck certification w/o the huge undertaking of the dedicated hardware support. In current climate, dedicated handheld is a waste of hardware and software resources even in the games are just PS4 targets. Sony found it's second platform with VR and I like it way more than wasting energy on a lost cause of beating Nintendo, smartphones and portable PCs.
'Dumb' remote play device, on the other hand, sounds interesting. Especially if it will traget in $150-200. Just like DS Edge, it's just an accessory and you don't need to divert a whole lot of people and resources to support it for a generation with games, OS and all that other stuff.
Today's Sony is bnuilding everything around PS5. PS5 is covered? Then VR is covered, PC ports of PS5 games are covered and even remote play is covered too. They've learned their lessons with supporting PS3/Vita and PS4 simultaneously.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
No, I don't want them (or 3rd parties for that matter) splitting their dev resources between two very different platforms. Everything on PS5 please.
Drizzlehell
Banned
I'm not really sold on the idea. An overpriced device that'll be useless without a solid internet connection doesn't sound very appealing, especially when you look at how cloud streaming has been performing so far. I have a gigabit fiber connection at home and even with that kind of internet setup, I frequently experienced buffering issues, image artifacts, or lagging so I can't see how this solution could work when you're on some cheap wi-fi hotspot that can barely handle playing YouTube videos on your phone.
At least with a proper handheld you could use it offline and play games on it locally.
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
With my recent line of work I use Remote Play casually from my iPhone and I will be quite happy to own a device with an actual controls just for that purporse.
Different strokes for different folks.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Another bad take and a false dichotomy.
Does Sony NEED a handheld? No, but there are certainly people who would like and appreciate one. The PSP sold over 80 million units. When you consider that it didn't really have a great software catalog (in the sense that the individual games sold really well), I think you can make a great argument that a PlayStation handheld would do BETTER with a shared library. The Steam Deck is a model for what Sony could do with a handheld.
People would rather play GT7 on a handheld than a watered-down handheld version of it.
And that isn't to say that you can promote the creation of select individual handheld titles that might perform better on a portable device.
A remote-play device does no one any favors. Remote play in the best of circumstances is barely passable AND it requires you to already own a PS5 or PS4.
I and most people would rather have a device that sports proper backward compatibility, especially with other PSP and Vita titles. Throw in PS1, PS2 for good effect.
I think the biggest problems you have are size and cost. Without dedicated software, you basically need to sell at a profit, but I think that the Switch and Steam Deck have shown that the current desired size is 7 inches. The steam deck is significantly larger than the switch largely due to the track pads. So you could probably find a middle point between them.
The next problem is battery power, but I think if you can hit 2-3 hours on a charge that's been deemed acceptable now.
So if you can put out a PS5 handheld that can do say 1080p on handheld and 1440p docked, I think that would be a win. Sell the dock separately to make up your margin.
The cheapest steam deck sells for 399. The Switch OLED launched for 350 on ancient hardware.
The only question for Sony is could they release maybe three models one that sells for 400-450, 500-550, and 600-650, with the 600/650-dollar model coming with the dock, and the dock priced at 150 separately.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I think Sony has lessons they can learn from the Switch and the Steam Deck, but a remote play handheld isn't the right lesson.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
With Sony's economies of scale when it comes to their internal hard drives, they could probably sell a "Sony Deck" at a better margin than Valve does a Steam Deck.
Similar with the economies of scale for the AMD SOC.
Sony is actually ideally suited to come out with their own Steam Deck, much more so than say Valve.
In fact, you could argue that a Sony Steam Deck might be a massive boon for it in Japan.
Similar with the economies of scale for the AMD SOC.
Sony is actually ideally suited to come out with their own Steam Deck, much more so than say Valve.
In fact, you could argue that a Sony Steam Deck might be a massive boon for it in Japan.
Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
I imagine people were saying the same thing just before PSX launched.
MadchesterManc
Member
The market has spoken and it doesn't want another. Given all the players in the handheld market these days its best not to waste their time.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
If Sony does end up using a Z1, would be shocked if it didn't play games offline.
ANIMAL1975
Member
My son would love a Vita2, so yes....
IlGialloMondadori
Member
Another week, another, "DAE VITA2 THO?"
yurinka
Member
I'm the biggest fan of PSP and Vita, but I think it would be a horrible idea to release a new handheld that requires dedicated games made for it.
Sony and the 3rd parties already have their resources split into a gazillion consoles, SKUs, VR, PC and mobile. It wouldn't be good for Sony to decrease their PS5 and PSVR2 games output because they also have to feed a portable.
I think a Sony handheld would only make sense if it's a PS4 portable that can run PS4 games that don't need to be ported, or a PS5 portable that can run PS5 games that don't need to be ported, or a PC handheld like Steamdeck that would feature emulated PS1, PS2, PSP, Vita games plus Sony's PC games, plus Steam and emulators.
I think that the idea of a Remote Play device idea, specially if it's a Dual Sense with a big screen 1080p display in the middle. So you could use it as a normal PS5 gamepad or if someone else is using the tv or if you want to play from a nearby room, to play in the device display via remote play.
Sony and the 3rd parties already have their resources split into a gazillion consoles, SKUs, VR, PC and mobile. It wouldn't be good for Sony to decrease their PS5 and PSVR2 games output because they also have to feed a portable.
I think a Sony handheld would only make sense if it's a PS4 portable that can run PS4 games that don't need to be ported, or a PS5 portable that can run PS5 games that don't need to be ported, or a PC handheld like Steamdeck that would feature emulated PS1, PS2, PSP, Vita games plus Sony's PC games, plus Steam and emulators.
I think that the idea of a Remote Play device idea, specially if it's a Dual Sense with a big screen 1080p display in the middle. So you could use it as a normal PS5 gamepad or if someone else is using the tv or if you want to play from a nearby room, to play in the device display via remote play.
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Agent X
Member
Good points, although I'm not envisioning such a handheld as a strictly "retro" device. The ability to play older games would be included, so that a user could have something to play offline. The machine would also have the ability to stream PS4/PS5 games.
I simply don't believe a "streaming only" handheld would be a viable strategy at this time...even more so if (as the rumors indicate) it isn't even capable of streaming the 800+ games on PS Plus Premium, and would be limited to only whatever games the user had previously downloaded to his home console's onboard storage. What's the appeal in that? As others have pointed out, there are already numerous devices that can do that right now.
That's why Sony's portable would need the added hook of being able to download and play games from their earlier consoles. This would be a feature that isn't suitably covered by other devices on the market today.
Topher
Identifies as young
Yes. Used to be handhelds needed their own separate library of games to be successful. With Steam Deck, we are seeing that isn't the case anymore. That is why we are seeing the handheld market emerge again aside from Nintendo. Sony can now make a PlayStation handheld that is fully part of their ecosystem and play all their games. Makes sense to me.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
You talk funny. Idk, seems like everything is a fight with you. You could just disagree with my opinion you know? No need to make it personal.
Anyways, I don't think Sony needs a proper handheld. One good enough to handle PS4 class game at least. Dont, see how they make one that doesn't cost at least $399. They already have PSVR2, which requires support as its own platform, would be fat out stupid to add another platform that wud require support too.
Now as for a remote-play device? Such is device should and would be treated as nothing more than another peripheral. like buying an extra controller or Sony PS-themed headset. It would and should be a niche product while its giving nothing more of a more polished and convenient way to do something you can already do with any smartphone.
I also believe such a device can be made for as little as $150-$199 at retail, something that has a budget ARM chip, 4GB of RAM, 32GB storage, Wifi+4G radios, a 7 inch 720p screen... basically a budget small tablet with a controller attached to it. Poish up the remote play app so its easier and more reliable to pair to your console. And that's it. It really doesn't have to be anything special, and this is on the topic that they are even doing something handheld-based, to begin with. Which I don't even believe they are.
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Topher
Identifies as young
They wouldn't need to. Steam Deck proved this.
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
Sony and others want you to take them wherever they go apps continue to be the way.
Drizzlehell
Banned
On one hand yes but on the other they would probably take the Nintendo approach to this and make sure that it's a closed platform that Sony would hold in a tight grip in fear of it getting hacked. They already deleted the web browser from PS5 to combat the jailbreaking of previous PlayStation consoles, so any new Sony handheld would be a PSN-only device and you wouldn't be able to do jack shit with it in terms of installing custom homebrew. Not unless someone would find a way to jailbreak it.
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Drizzlehell
Banned
PSP didn't fail, though. It was a solid competitor to DS at the time.
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Gambit2483
Member
Technically Nintendo did...
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
No. I don’t want any of the big three splitting up their teams making games for different libraries.
Remote play/cloud streaming is the future of portable gaming. Deal with it.
Remote play/cloud streaming is the future of portable gaming. Deal with it.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
You are wrong. The Backbone and Razer Kishi are fantastic.
SEGAvangelist
Member
They should discontinue PSVR2 and invest in a portable that can play PS5 games at some point in the future. That would rock.
Retro_Stew
Member
Actually, the backbone is incredible and has a great feeling.
Finished Persona 5 remotely on this thing, with my iPhone.
Unknown?
Member
They are okay but there are better form factors that can be made.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
I don’t doubt that, but I’m sure they’ll also cost more. The backbone and Kishi (I own both) are fantastic accessories for the PS5/Xbox Series consoles. The only issue I have is that I have to take my case off my phone to use them. But thankfully my case is super easy to take on/off.
IlGialloMondadori
Member
I don’t understand how you think Sony can make a handheld that can play all their games at this point, including ps5, native on the system. Please explain.
Topher
Identifies as young
Because of the APUs being made by AMD. That's what makes Steam Deck and Rog Ally possible. Steam Deck plays games like Hogwarts Legacy and Elden Ring just fine so I don't see why PlayStation games would be any different. And Sony's APIs would be able to squeeze even more performance out of a dedicated handheld with their own operating system. No Windows or Linux. Just another fully dedicated PlayStation handheld.
To be clear, I'm talking about running games at a much lower resolution like they do on Steam Deck.
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
It's 2023 now, Series S was working with 2018-2019 budget PC technology. The Steam Deck and soon to be ROG Ally are really good hardware wise and have specs that stack up to a Series S, on the go. It could be possible and be marketed as a competitor to whatever Nintendo would be putting out in 2024.
Plus the resolutions are much lower on those systems so optimization would be way easier.
Not sure about that, I don't think Sony's best can compete with Vulkan which is the best PC API at the moment
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
dont get too hyped about this concept lol, the size and battery life are still a main concern for it
Japan isn't gonna accept a gigantic handheld like a steam deck, there's a reason the Switch Lite was made.
Topher
Identifies as young
I'm not saying Sony's APIs is the best out there. I don't know the answer to that either way. I'm just saying that Sony's devices perform very well when it is all built on Sony's own tech. PS5 has been punching above its weight all gen long.
Having said all that, Sony's games being so close to the hardware has meant that games don't scale very well. Without being patched, PS4 games don't take advantage of PS5 hardware. So just about every game would probably need to be patched and that may be a bridge too far for Sony.
CamHostage
Member
I don't either, but I think it's the strongest hook for mass-market gamers as to a reason to buy this, even more than the Remote Play (albeit, given the history of retro gaming on modern machines, probably users will buy it for this one reason but taper off in actually playing old games habitually, and then it'll be a challenge of transitioning players into the other uses of the device.)
To me, Sony coming out with a ~$200 device which is a really good DualSense controller for PS5 but also has a nice screen and there's some innovative uses of that screen in a new Astro Bot game plus it works with Fortnite and CoD and TLoU Factions and some other stuff in a useful manner, and then, Oh one last thing, it also plays a huge library of PS classics...
I don't know that I see that as a success-guaranteed product, but I at least see it. Other versions of this, I don't have it in my mind's eye of how it'd work out or be marketed.
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CamHostage
Member
Probably Backbone owners already know this, but Sony actually partened with Backbone for an official PlayStation Edition Backbone One. Strangely, they made no noise about this, and only released it for iOS (and it's $100 just as an accessory, which is a lot IMO but maybe Backbone ones are built more solid than the average phone clip controller?), but that's interesting to see Sony has already dipped its toes in that market outside of a full-scale portable.
Yoboman
Member
No they didn't
Gambit2483
Member
So what's Switch...?
RoadHazard
Gold Member
So what's Switch...?
One console, not two.