TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Yeah that was cool, but I wouldn't say it's the biggest ever announcement of a none E3 week
[Grain of Salt] A full blown PlayStation handheld is coming somewhere around PS6 launch
Yeah that was cool, but I wouldn't say it's the biggest ever announcement of a none E3 week
nial
Member
This needs to be said over and over again, but it's such an apples and oranges comparison because it's not supposed to have its own unique library, but rather to be part of the PS6 family and have virtually every game released from November 2027 on.
Fighting Souls? Ok, maybe not THE biggest of that week, but it's definitely part of the conversation, and it probably did have the biggest impact among gaming enthusiasts outside of RE9.
I also said 'the', not 'a'.
As I said above, I did not state that.Yeah that was cool, but I wouldn't say it's the biggest ever announcement of a none E3 week
Perrott
Member
I'd even go as far as saying that Marvel TĹŤkon is indeed the biggest announcement of Not-E3 since it really came out of nowhere, plus it is the kind of project (from it's combination of developer, genre, IP and publisher) that'd canonically be considered a dream announcement -- not unlike if Hideo Kojima had returned to Silent Hills with Sony publishing and licensing the IP from Konami, instead of doing whatever nonsense OD is.
Resident Evil Requiem, honestly, has been getting leaked in various capacities since 2020 and Capcom has alluded to it's development multiple times on an official capacity across several prior events. Everyone was expecting it to show up at either the State of Play or Summer Game Fest and, to be fair, I wouldn't be so quick to claim that it would be a bigger deal than Marvel TĹŤkon from a sales standpoint either.
And even then, being a "bigger" title in terms of reach and potential units sold doesn't really equal it's announcement being the biggest deal in gaming, because if that were the case then the gaming world should've lost their shit over Call of Duty: Black Ops 7 being the closer of the Xbox Showcase, when in reality it's announcement generated the exact opposite. It was an absolute bummer to witness.
Schmendrick
Banned
technologically pretty much impossible unless we are talking about a gaming laptop sized very ...very expensive piece of kit.
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nial
Member
Define what is a 'PS6 game'.
Schmendrick
Banned
"have virtually every game released from November 2027 on." is what you said. Since you didn`t say "except for anything demanding" I´d assume that "virtually every game" probably means "every game".
and that simply doesn`t work without an unrealistically high upfront investment in the hardware.
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nial
Member
Yes, I do mean that. You don't need to run these games at the exact same settings, and since we'll already get several years of cross gen games that will probably target the fucking Series S and Switch 2, it's entirely feasible.
The only PS6 game that will not be possible on weaker hardware will be the $2B Red Dead Redemption 3.
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Mibu no ookami
Banned
There is no doubt that this was the biggest announcement.
This game likely clears Resident Evil Requiem if not in total game sales it will in revenue.
Will it do better than CoD? Maybe, maybe not, but as you said, CoD has been pretty much the best selling game every year for the last decade or so. That this is a back to back BLOPS won't help or the argument that this was a bigger announcement.
I think people just see a simple fighting game and don't think it is a big deal, ignoring the fact that it's easily going to sell 10 million copies when games like SF6 and MK1 have struggled to get beyond 5 million. Something DBZF cleared easily.
Schmendrick
Banned
no one has been targeting the series S even before ms officially threw the towel. That thing has never been more than an afterthought with resolutions dipping into dvd territory, and 3rd party blockbuster level releases have skipped Nintendo hardware since basically 2007...
Hardware that's supposed to be in scaling range would have to be near series X/PS5. We're easily talking around a thousand bucks worth of hardware, and only if the next graphics gen somewhat delivers. And even then there's no chance that thing's not left in the dust after the crossgen period is over...
I don't see why Sony even bothers with a handheld (supposedly). Smells like a "we have a switch at home"-situation
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But that has been the accepted standard since 2017, and it's still right here with the latest new system launch. After 8 years and running - maybe it's time we all accept that sub SD resolutions in games are here to stay.
Anyway - I think the relevant question from above remains - 'what constitutes a PS6 game' - because if all we're getting is another decimal on the version of Unreal, even more temporally grainy images and proclamations of highest pixel fidelity* ever - well there really isn't anything coming that 'can't' scale to any sized screen or GPU, so a PS6 handheld is as likely as any other today.
*As long as you keep your camera and scene static for a few seconds for the image to resolve...
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Exactly! Which I think isn't possible unless most PS6 games can play on a PS5.
HUH?
- Size
- Heat
- Battery
- Cost
KenaiPhoenix
Member
It would be amazing, hopefully is not just a Steamdeck wanna be but rather a really portable game console with its own games and stuff.
Now if they just do the ROG PlayStation with the price of a full PC... its going to fail miserably.
Now if they just do the ROG PlayStation with the price of a full PC... its going to fail miserably.
nial
Member
They're not doing that. It shares the same architecture with the home PS6 console.
As long as it's possible, it's possible.
I mean, we have to see, then? As I said several times before, a $150-200 cheaper, portable option alongside a home console at PS6 launch not making up for at least half of overall sales is very unlikely, and developers will have to determine if they want to target both systems.
Let's say both systems get released in November 2027 and have a combined 50/50 total of 40M sales by March 2030, would you want to target only 20M of that userbase, or go straight to the 40M?
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Schmendrick
Banned
. Even at the same price point the mobile version would already be a much, much weaker piece of kit that would completely drag down the main system if it was mandatory to release on both, and if it needs its own releases it will just starve...
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nial
Member
And I already told you that no one will be making any game impossible for that system. No one will struggle for supporting sub PS5 hardware with more modern tech and AI upscaling.
Schmendrick
Banned
We're watching the big engines switch to VG and RT systems right now and you think some anemic tablet will always be in scaling range..... That's just absolute nonsense
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nial
Member
I will quote this post again on November 11, 2027.
That would help the handheld, not hurt it.
Schmendrick
Banned
How so? The min load for GPU and CPU will make quite a leap after all.
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crackajack
Member
Fortnite is running on everything so Unreal has systems to allow that. Probably takes some work, which is no problem for a huge game like Fortnite, but I also wonder if any indie game can replicate that easily, with tolerable dev time. A PC release with a lot of the engines most demanding features and simultaneously run on average phones as well. Which is something a potential native handheld would require for everything, much scaled down versions of every game.
RDNA5 is literally designed for ray-tracing and dense geometry. That would be the most favorable comparison vs PS5
Schmendrick
Banned
True, but we`re still talking about supposedly handheld hardware, meaning 10-15W power consumption ...and AMD. Color me very.....very sceptical, especially in light of how classic silicon scaling has jumped out of the window and left a mark on the pavement.
Fortnite was built with both the classic systems and the new ones which are interchangeable and scalable depending on the platform. A game built with nanite and hardware lumen without fallback would have a much different performance floor. At that point you either have the power or, as you said, you need to adapt the version.
And we`re just at the beginning. If systemic world building gets going with systems like chaos physics, megalights etc we`ll see another jump in base requirements.
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jm89
Member
I don't think there was even a party to begin with.
Dedicated Handheld gaming devices(excluding nitnendo) haven't really taken off at all.
crackajack
Member
I am thinking something like those voxels for trees as a LoD system they showed at that Witcher thing. Engines would need some easy fallback, some "port to shite" button that shrinks all the nanite glory to something more digestable on weak(er) systems, bake the RT lighting with just a few simple options to select from ... NPC systems, physics, hitbox detection and such have to be the same, so that needs to be kept intact, but scale the crap out of any visuals. It's a handheld anyway. So 4k definitely unnecessary, and upscaling from a lower resolution is more acceptable/ less visible too.
We have not seen the absolute max on PS5, but Returnal and Ratchet Clank run okay on Steamdeck (at least the first google results suggest that) so current PS5 pinnacle titles can be downscaled to a handheld. Series S might have been a bad idea, the number three having two systems and maybe not well executed, but if someone does it well enough it might not hold back. Even though something needs to be the limit, unlimited is neither on handheld nor on consoles ever possible. The future 8090 Titan will need to be doing something that won't run on any Sony or MS or Nintendo system and waste half of its silicon on that.
Schmendrick
Banned
you`re asking the impossible here.
The systems we are talking about are not simply automatically interchangeable and are interconnected with other systems in the engines, too.
If there isn`t enough power to simply scale via resolution (within acceptable limits ofc) and other scalable elements like maybe foliage density, particle effects, volumetrics etc then you`re out of luck and will have to put in quite a bit of manual work.
for example when we stick with UE5 here: if a game is built with nanite from the get go then there wouldn`t even be lower LOD-versions of assets you could scale down to. That system has a hard performance floor and can`t just be turned off. And so far we`ve mostly talked about the GPU side of things while stuff like simulation, object tracking etc on CPU side scales much worse.
Scaling down is not quite as simple as a lot of people here seem to think unless you take the weaker device as the base and scale up from there which however limits what you can do quite a bit.
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Astray
Member
I think you are overrating the revenue potential of this. It will be a successful GAAS fighting game* no doubt. But I don't really think this will be substantially ahead of where the other big fighting GAAS games when all is said and done.
* All fighting games are or were GAAS games before the term even got coined, but that's another discussion.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
Switch 2 lasts like 2 hours with a battery...i could only imagine if the next PS portable is "powerful". Whatever that means.
Donald mac Ronald
Member
We've already had this gen impacted by the garbage that is series s. So another gen hamstrung by a portable..
asdasdasdbb
Member
They aren't really going to focus on PS6. It'll be PS5 games more or less.
Which is why the handheld makes sense.
When the new hardware already supports those features? It'll be fine. Look at the Switch 2 and its support for hardware RT.
Look at the Steam Deck, it wasn't designed as a PS5/XS. But it uses the same CPU and GPU core generation. The CPU cores are cut in half, 4 vs 8 and the the GPU is 8 CUs vs 36 of a PS5. It can struggle with some of the latest games, but people are getting games working, and devs that create a Steam Deck profile for games like Cyberpunk run just fine on it.
You won't notice it on a console since you can't run tools to see performance, but on PCs modern games might max out 15-20% of a 8 core CPU with average usage being much lower. All of the processing is on the GPU hammering through more and more complex things chasing barely noticeable increases in image fidelity. Oh no, not seeing self shadowing of a characters arm, the veins in their eyes, or individual pores on their skin on a 8" screen ruins the experience.
We're getting five years into this console generation and finally getting getting to the number of exclusive games we should have had a year two. If the new consoles release in 2-3 years you can be assured the PS5 will be supported until the PS7 comes out. Hardware generations are dead, we'll see if the "Pro" trend also dies and we end up with faster cycles of around five years so people wanting the cutting edge and just upgrade. But you still have a 100 Million+ user base that can play whatever new game you are releasing.
Schmendrick
Banned
Simply supporting the basic technological features powering a system means nothing if you don`t have the computing power to implement them on the scale demanded.
that is a giant understatement..... watch DF`s too big for steamdeck video f.e.
That is highly dependent on the type of game and as a generalization simply wrong. See 1% lows and single core perf issues for reference as easy examples. There`s a reason why you pair strong GPUs with strong CPUs.
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Deerock71
Very Poor Hoice of Wor
When you can't even acknowledge the fastest selling system ever as nothing but that, then you probably aren't trying to sell hardware.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Dragon Ball FighterZ sold 10 million copies.
Yes or No is Marvel significantly larger an IP than Dragon Ball Z?
Dragon Ball Z DLC characters run for 5 dollars a pop. That will be the floor of what characters cost on MTFS.
Outside a handful of characters, DBZ doesn't have anywhere close to the roster of viable characters as Marvel that people will buy DLC for.
- Spider-Man (Peter Parker)
- Spider-Man (Miles Morales)
- Spider-Gwen
- Black Cat
- Iron Man
- Wolverine
- Captain America
- Deadpool
- Thor
- Hulk
- Black Panther
- Doctor Strange
- Thanos
- Loki
- Scarlet Witch
- Venom
- Doctor Octavius
- Carnage
- Magneto
- Black Widow
- Daredevil
- Bullseye
- Captain Marvel
- Silver Surfer
- Galactus
- Storm
- Ant-Man
- Hawkeye
- Green Goblin
- Groot
- Rocket Raccoon
- Star-Lord
- Gammora
- Drax
- Rogue
- Mystique
- Red Skull
- Vision
- Winter Soldier
- Falcon
- Nick Fury
- Kingpin
- Doctor Doom
- The Punisher
- Beast
- Ultron
- Quicksilver
- The Thing
- Human Torch
- Invisible Woman
- Mr. Fantastic
- Colossus
- Shang-Chi
- Ms. Marvel
- America Chavez
- Ghost Rider
- Moon Knight
- Elektra Natchios
- Sabretooth
- Mysterio
- Blade
- Emma Frost
- Gambit
- She-Hulk (Jennifer Walters)
- War Machine
- Yondu Udonta
- Abomination
- Valkyrie
- Apocalypse
- Sandman
- Rhino
- Hela
- Kang the Conqueror
- Wasp
- Iron Fist
- Jessica Jones
- Luke Cage
- Cloak
- Dagger
- Squirrel Girl
- Taskmaster
- Modok
- Lady Deathstrike
- Omega Red
- Namor the Sub-Mariner
- Enchantress
- Shuri
- Ironheart
- Juggernaut
- Psylocke
- Morbius
- Cyclops
- Havok
- X-23
- Bishop
- Cable
- Jubilee
- Kraven
- Tombstone
- Mr. Negative
- Pyro
- The Mandarin
Yeah... this game has WAY more revenue opportunity even with half this roster...
The Steam Deck has four ZEN 2 cores that can clock from 2.4-3.5GHz, the PS5 has eight Zen 2 cores running up to 3.5GHz. So what's that about single core performance issues of the Deck versus a console?
My argument isn't that Steam Deck = PS5. It's not, the Deck uses the same technology but is very cut down. But while the Deck struggles with the most demanding games, it handles anything that was cross gen. The PS6 will very likely be Zen 6 based with a UDNA GPU. A portable using that same technology will have no issues handling PS5 titles that are locked to 1080p output for the handheld's screen. With a mandate that any PS6 games target both the PS6 and the handheld, you're going to be able to play the entire generation. Some devs will want to flex and will stress the console, but you can scale back the effects.
Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
To play what? Xbox games?
Schmendrick
Banned
*sigh* this is in regards to your nonsensical low cpu usage statement.
Most engines still can`t do good multithreading or the tasks at hand are simply hard to multithread architecturally. A standard benchmark will show a low load on the cpu while you will often see 1-2 cores getting completely hammered when you up the log resolution. Single core performance is still very important and you need strong CPUs.
PS5/Crossgen titles aren`t (shouldn`t be) the issue, these should obviously be in scaling range.
with that mandate you`d get a whole generation tied down by toaster hardware.
Absolute. worst. case. scenario.
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Astray
Member
I mean DBZ took like 5 years to reach that 10 million figure (and is probably bigger in Asia than the MCU, which matters a lot because Sony is releasing this on PC day 1).
Meanwhile RE4make sold like 6.4 million copies in its first year alone (Capcom continually updates their total sales figures with every financial report iirc). It already reached 10m in two years and is liable to continue selling. And that was a controversial remake when it was 1st announced too! It didn't have all of the RE fanbase pulling for it at its inception.
GymWolf
Member
And that's why i hope it bomb harder than concord, so they can focus on their home console and make nextgen games, i thought my intent was clear.
I know, wishful thinking...
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Zen 2 is three generations old and 3.5Ghz was the base non-boosted clock that you get on any PC. Are you saying hardware that'll be four generations newer and with the IPC uplift generation to generation will be over 2x the performance if it runs at the same clock speed would be "toaster" hardware?
People are being blown way with the 1080p 120Hz, and 4K 60Hz game play they are getting on the Switch 2 who's power falls between base PS4 and PS4 Pro.
The big mistake you're making is thinking about just faster versions of today's hardware for the next system. The next consoles will have NPUs and other specific hardware that accelerates different work loads. The "X" version of the new XBOX ROG Ally will show the needed performance is already here with today's hardware. Zen 6 and UDNA are a big jump from what's being used in that. It's hard to accept but generations are dead, we're at the point of diminishing returns.
The next generations of consoles will likely still be using current rendering techniques since AMD is always behind NVIDIA. But future hardware will be changing the pipelines on how things are processed and returned to your screen. They have to, the current gen games on current consoles are struggling to hit 30-40fps at 1440p. Upscalers and framegen along with other techniques like that texture stuff NVIDIA will have expontential performance uplifts versus current hardware.
Schmendrick
Banned
compared to the stationaries of that time it absolutely will be, as always.
Cool to have in hand, still absolute garbage in comparison to what stationary hardware can do.
We already know exactly where the journey is going from the PC side of things. AMD is still playing catch up with NVIDIA.
Yeah, and guess which hardware will have massively more capable parts to tackle that? hint, It´s not going to be the version castrated by a ~15W power target and a battery.......
You´re talking to someone who`s had cutting edge PCs his entire life......that is the coldest of coffee and still needs copious amounts of computing power/hardware.
utter nonsense. Turn on a good PT system in a game and suddenly everything looks transformed.
Slap chaos physics in a dynamic scene and it`s suddenly incomparably more interactive than anything we`ve had before......
Put in a VG system with high-quality assets eliminating all the pop in and transitions and you suddenly have a stable picture for the first time in nearly 30 years of 3d graphics....
There´s plenty of room for massive improvements all of which require pretty much generational leaps in power to have a chance to become standard (in good quality).
I don`t know what are you even trying to claim here.
Mobile hardware can never keep up with contemporary stationary performance oriented hardware, that is a simple fact. Just to stay somewhat close for easy scaling you have to go to ridiculous lengths concerning portability, cooling and especially pricing....none of which is likely for a "console"-accessory.
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Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I'm inclined to think that a dual SKU PS6 is Sony's intention with the next console cycle. A high-spec console and a lower-spec handheld that can play the same games seamlessly.
A PS5 handheld prior to a next-gen console just seems like an odd choice and I don't really see it happening. Unless it's a few years before PS6. But if PS6 is a dual SKU with a handheld option I don't know why they would do both. Just wait bit longer and do a full-on PS6-branded handheld.
A PS5 handheld prior to a next-gen console just seems like an odd choice and I don't really see it happening. Unless it's a few years before PS6. But if PS6 is a dual SKU with a handheld option I don't know why they would do both. Just wait bit longer and do a full-on PS6-branded handheld.
GoldenEye98
posts news as their odd job
People complained about dual tiered approach with the Series S and that thing is ~75W. What happens when you try a dual tier approach with a ~20W handheld and ~200W traditional console???
I don't see it unless the traditional console itself is massively dialed down to ~100W to reduce the power gap....which nobody would be a fan of....
Schmendrick
Banned
this.
Except that with the sorry state of node shrinking the main console will have to crack the 300 or maybe even the 400W to give us a good uplift.
nial
Member
This IS the PS6.
GymWolf
Member
The ps6 is a portable with the power of a ps5?
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nial
Member
Yes.
