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Doctor Who Series 2011 |OT| Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Stuff

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S

Sotha Sil

Member
Well, as I said yesterday, I've now watched all Moffat episodes, and I'd like to discuss those some more. Though I must say I sometimes dislike his use of pathos, I'm definitely impressed. Watching Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead after watching series 5/6 was a powerful experience (
and I actually knew River died at the end
). Blink was clever, and I liked The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, but these two episodes have moved me like no other (including his time as showrunner).

So, if it's not too much of a thread derail, what is your favorite Moffat episode? (List posts are fun!)
 
N

neojubei

Will drop pants for Sony.
I remember watching "Silence in the Library" for the first time and thought to myself who is this River Song person. It was if I was watching one side of a story and now after watching and learning who River song was, going back and watching "Silence in the Library" makes me see River Song's side of the story as she see a Doctor that does not even know her. I love River Song such a fantastic character, I wish she could come back from the library database.
 
C

Clegg

Member
Sotha Sil said:
Well, as I said yesterday, I've now watched all Moffat episodes, and I'd like to discuss those some more. Though I must say I sometimes dislike his use of pathos, I'm definitely impressed. Watching Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead after watching series 5/6 was a powerful experience (
and I actually knew River died at the end
). Blink was clever, and I liked The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, but these two episodes have moved me like no other (including his time as showrunner).

So, if it's not too much of a thread derail, what is your favorite Moffat episode? (List posts are fun!)
Click to expand...
Blink, most definitely Blink.

Although, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead is a very close second favourite. I love the fact that we are witnessing Rivers life in reverse order and that we know whats coming for her. It has made the 5th and 6th series bitersweet because we know that there wont be a happily ever after for River.

The Pandorica Opens/Big Bang next because of its timey wimey content and for the fact that it wrapped the series up so well. The Doctor appearing in previous episodes trying to rix the timestream was a great mindfuck moment.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Sotha Sil said:
Well, as I said yesterday, I've now watched all Moffat episodes, and I'd like to discuss those some more. Though I must say I sometimes dislike his use of pathos, I'm definitely impressed. Watching Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead after watching series 5/6 was a powerful experience (
and I actually knew River died at the end
). Blink was clever, and I liked The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, but these two episodes have moved me like no other (including his time as showrunner).

So, if it's not too much of a thread derail, what is your favorite Moffat episode? (List posts are fun!)
Click to expand...
Yeah, gotta be Blink. Shame I didn't like what they did with the Angels after that.
 
B

Box of Bunnies

Banned
Sotha Sil said:
So, if it's not too much of a thread derail, what is your favorite Moffat episode? (List posts are fun!)
Click to expand...

The Curse of Fatal Death

Though if we're talking strictly "proper" episodes, Silence in the Library.
 
S

Sotha Sil

Member
I think it's "Blink" that really sold me on the series. I began watching Who expecting camp and cheesy effects, and the beautiful simplicity of the Angels gave the episode an intensity that would have been ruined by CG monsters.

Yet I have a soft spot for Silence in the Library. It has Blink's great pace and creative plot devices, but the lore it adds to the series and the pleasure of seeing the Doctor interact with an equal definitely makes it my favorite.

Back to series 6, it has probably been discussed, but I must admit it actually killed some of my interest for River. I kind of agree with this io9 write-up ("The Downfall of River Song" section), and especially with this paragraph:

So what does River get for marrying the Doctor and taking the fall for his fake murder? She gets locked up in Stormcage for almost the rest of her life — apparently she gets out, in time to die in "Forest of the Dead." She's not only given up all her regenerations to bring the Doctor to life and given her final life to save him, she's also agreed to be locked away in prison and reviled as one of history's greatest criminals, just to help the Doctor lower his profile a bit. (Because even if the Doctor had to appear to die by that lakeside to safeguard the "fixed point in time," there's no law that says he couldn't show up at River's trial and say "Hello, it's me. Actually didn't die. Thanks.")
Click to expand...

I really hope series 7 actually explains why he can't get her out - and I guess it will.
 
S

SpeedingUptoStop

will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
In terms of Moffat episodes, they all pretty much have a special distinction by me. The only real weak one of the bunch seems to be A Good Man Goes To War - felt rushed, stitched together. Thematically right, but the backstory of things like the Headless Monks just flat out aren't there. It's the laziest villains he's ever made and everything in the second half of the episode is just too easy (getting the baby, losing the baby, none of it really feels weighty at all). Oh wait, he wrote Beast Below too, right? Same deal there -> is there a reasfor the creepy carnival machine guys, how or why they exist? No, it's just creepy for creepy's sake and they take up too much screentime to just be dismissed as totally normal in the end.

Outside of that, I've found a place for all for them, especially the season 5 episodes. The Eleventh Hour, I might just give the edge because it's a single episode that is juggling SO MANY THINGS and it does it all just fantastically. Basic introductions, meta introductions, general plot, meta implications of plot, new mysteries, new direction, all the same DW romance/humor/action that has to be juggled with every DW episode - it felt like Moffat had been writing that episode his whole life and he just knocked that shit out of the park.

Then there's the two parters, Flesh & Stone/Time of Angels for bring back a great villain for more and the emotional elements of Amy's story are just great, everything about those are great. Jorah Mormont's death speech is straight dope. The Big Bng/Pandorica Opens make for just flat out wicked fun sci fi, but The Doctor moments are almost unparralled in them, particularly The Speech and erasing himself from existence itself is pretty much as heroic and well done as it gets.

As for the RTD era ones, his were regularly the standouts too. His first two parter introducing Harkness though, really wowed me. That episode could've been way worse, but the mystery was worth the wait and everybody lives was pretty justified. Blink and al lthe rest, are great, but I think I might give the S5 episodes the leg up because visually, they belong to him too.
 
I

infiniteloop

Member
PhoncipleBone said:
It just dawned on me. Rory is Doctor Who's answer to South Park's Kenny.
Click to expand...


tumblr_llcacjLWB61qa5hg9o1_1280.jpg
 
P

PhoncipleBone

Banned
maharg said:
The Doctor asked the crew of the Tesselecta one last favour...

threesome!
Click to expand...
Well, she did say that was another birthday...

EDIT: See, I should read further down the page before commenting. Or have my coffee before commenting.

SpeedingUptoStop said:
In terms of Moffat episodes, they all pretty much have a special distinction by me. The only real weak one of the bunch seems to be A Good Man Goes To War - felt rushed, stitched together. Thematically right, but the backstory of things like the Headless Monks just flat out aren't there. It's the laziest villains he's ever made and everything in the second half of the episode is just too easy (getting the baby, losing the baby, none of it really feels weighty at all). Oh wait, he wrote Beast Below too, right? Same deal there -> is there a reasfor the creepy carnival machine guys, how or why they exist? No, it's just creepy for creepy's sake and they take up too much screentime to just be dismissed as totally normal in the end.

Outside of that, I've found a place for all for them, especially the season 5 episodes. The Eleventh Hour, I might just give the edge because it's a single episode that is juggling SO MANY THINGS and it does it all just fantastically. Basic introductions, meta introductions, general plot, meta implications of plot, new mysteries, new direction, all the same DW romance/humor/action that has to be juggled with every DW episode - it felt like Moffat had been writing that episode his whole life and he just knocked that shit out of the park.

Then there's the two parters, Flesh & Stone/Time of Angels for bring back a great villain for more and the emotional elements of Amy's story are just great, everything about those are great. Jorah Mormont's death speech is straight dope. The Big Bng/Pandorica Opens make for just flat out wicked fun sci fi, but The Doctor moments are almost unparralled in them, particularly The Speech and erasing himself from existence itself is pretty much as heroic and well done as it gets.

As for the RTD era ones, his were regularly the standouts too. His first two parter introducing Harkness though, really wowed me. That episode could've been way worse, but the mystery was worth the wait and everybody lives was pretty justified. Blink and al lthe rest, are great, but I think I might give the S5 episodes the leg up because visually, they belong to him too.
Click to expand...

Funny. Moffat wrote The Empty Child/Doctor Dances and Blink.

But I will agree that RTD did have some stand out episodes, and quite a few that neither he nor Moffat wrote. But the best stuff from the RTD years was written by Moffat, which is why I was so excited that he was taking over the show.
 
S

SpeedingUptoStop

will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
PhoncipleBone said:
Funny. Moffat wrote The Empty Child/Doctor Dances and Blink.

But I will agree that RTD did have some stand out episodes, and quite a few that neither he nor Moffat wrote. But the best stuff from the RTD years was written by Moffat, which is why I was so excited that he was taking over the show.
Click to expand...
Yea, tis what I meant, Moffat episodes from the RTD era.
 
E

electroshockwave

Member
Ah, I forgot about that one. I was thinking that his deaths only started in the Silurian episodes. The universe really does want him dead.

And Amy was pregnant in that episode too, right?
 
B

Blader

Member
SpeedingUptoStop said:
Outside of that, I've found a place for all for them, especially the season 5 episodes. The Eleventh Hour, I might just give the edge because it's a single episode that is juggling SO MANY THINGS and it does it all just fantastically. Basic introductions, meta introductions, general plot, meta implications of plot, new mysteries, new direction, all the same DW romance/humor/action that has to be juggled with every DW episode - it felt like Moffat had been writing that episode his whole life and he just knocked that shit out of the park.
Click to expand...

I still think The Eleventh Hour is the best episode of Moffat's run.
 
W

wind_steaker

Member
So with a little distance from the finale now, looking back on S6 it feels like it wasn't the step up from S5 that I was hoping for - don't get me wrong here I really enjoyed it, but it feels weaker overall. Perhaps it's just the fantastic last final 5 episodes of S5 that swings it for me, if the second half of S6 had been that strong it would have been a hard call.

I think part of this is up to Moffat trying to do more "event" episodes this year, and while I like his style (and they are far from the worst Who finales) I think his episodes from S5 were much stronger than his two ending episodes this year (the opening 2 parter was fabulous though).

While I do appreciate him trying to shake up the formula I'd love to see what he'd come up with if he wrote a few less episodes or perhaps wrote some of them with another writer, hell, give the finale to someone else even!


PS Personally I think the series is the best it has been since series 1 (2005) so I'm being a downer, but only from a perspective of expecting so much!
 
W

wind_steaker

Member
While I think about it. I'd love to see someone have a go at 3-4 episode arcs, with perhaps only 3-4 arcs a year. A bit like Children of Earth I guess, or even have an arc like that at the end of a series.
 
E

EleventhDoctor

Banned
wind_steaker said:
So with a little distance from the finale now, looking back on S6 it feels like it wasn't the step up from S5 that I was hoping for - don't get me wrong here I really enjoyed it, but it feels weaker overall. Perhaps it's just the fantastic last final 5 episodes of S5 that swings it for me, if the second half of S6 had been that strong it would have been a hard call.

I think part of this is up to Moffat trying to do more "event" episodes this year, and while I like his style (and they are far from the worst Who finales) I think his episodes from S5 were much stronger than his two ending episodes this year (the opening 2 parter was fabulous though).

While I do appreciate him trying to shake up the formula I'd love to see what he'd come up with if he wrote a few less episodes or perhaps wrote some of them with another writer, hell, give the finale to someone else even!


PS Personally I think the series is the best it has been since series 1 (2005) so I'm being a downer, but only from a perspective of expecting so much!
Click to expand...

I actually agree with you. Season 6 tries to be so epic, but due to the nature of the show, everything happens so fast...I have more fonder memories of Season 5, but I did enjoy S6 immensely. I'm hoping Season 7 is indeed more lowkey and "stand-alone" friendly. I'm one of the few people who enjoyed Night Terrors...
 
J

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
i want a return to anthology style seasons. no more overarching stories - i want in/out 1 shot stories.

it's much easier to share great episodes with people when they're self contained.
 
G

gabbo

Member
jon bones said:
i want a return to anthology style seasons. no more overarching stories - i want in/out 1 shot stories.

it's much easier to share great episodes with people when they're self contained.
Click to expand...
I'm happy with a mix of both, I'd just prefer the arc be spread out better over its given number of episodes (perhaps aired in a row?) than have everything answered in 5 minutes at the end of a story's last episode.

And to throw my own hat into the Moffat's best of RTD era, I'd go Empty Child/Doctor Dances. Rose doesn't cause the problem, it introduces Jack and an interesting idea for a villain. Oh, an Eccleston is still my favourite Doctor and here's he's at the top of his time traveling best.
 
S

SpeedingUptoStop

will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Feels like if Moffat had an extra hour or two, this whole season really would've breathed far better. I really appreciate the ambition and on paper it's all cohesive, but it feels like they had to cut some things for screen and for time. It also does feel like much of the back half may have suffered from those "cutting back on budget" rumors, but I guess we'll never know if all that was intended to be so contained - much of mot episodes took place in one central location, used very little more than practical effects, etc. Only the finale felt expensive (although the Tesselecta CGI is insane in LKH).

I dunno, I know not many people like this, but I feel like if they were gonna do thi River romance perfect (unless they plan on having more next season), they should've totally focused on it and made it a season wide thing, not just have her show up for the bookends & "big events". That's the breathability I'm talking about. A Vampires of Venice type episode with River really woulda added something to this season. They coulda shifted a story like the Pirate one to next season and it'd be entirely the same.

Little things like that put S6 below S5 for me, but I still found it to be great for the most part anyhow. Maybe there's more to it next season that'll elevate it that I'm not aware of, who knows.
 
I

Inanna

Not pure anymore!
My favourite episodes from RTD's era are Blink, The girl in the Fireplace, Midnight and the Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
I really doubt we're done with River. Now that the backstory is out of the way she can get standalone stories, and I think that's Moffat's intention.
 
S

SpeedingUptoStop

will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
maharg said:
I really doubt we're done with River. Now that the backstory is out of the way she can get standalone stories, and I think that's Moffat's intention.
Click to expand...
I hope so, I've always banked my suspension of disbelief in regards to their relationship on the fact that they've had offcreen adventures and will have some on screen ones in the future.

Keep Jim the Fish off the screen though, that shit seems to drive people batty.
 
S

Slime

Banned
This has probably already have discussed before, but god damn. How did I not notice that the symbol surrounding all these Silence people is basically an omega symbol? How did I not make the connection that between the Headless Monks and Omega himself?

vnilx5.jpg


I'm slow.

But damn, if this is really where they're going with this, I think I'm willing to put my feelings about the finale aside and get back into hype mode.
 
A

acheron_xl

Member
maharg said:
I really doubt we're done with River. Now that the backstory is out of the way she can get standalone stories, and I think that's Moffat's intention.
Click to expand...

This is my guess. I'll go one step farther and state that the birthday she mentioned in AGMGTW with two Doctors is going to be a Tennant/Smith 50th anniversary episode.
 
R

RetroMG

Member
At Mama Robotnik's suggestion I've started listening to The Holy Terror. It's quite good, especially with the aforementioned Dark Humor. Frobisher is an immensely weird character, though, and Colin Baker's Doctor sounds weirdly old. (So much so that I had to look up which Doctor it was.)
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
JUST finished catching up and that ending was BRILLIANT
I was thinking that the question is
what is the doctor's real name
lol
...and TBH, it's not that important really, I just like calling him The Doctor.

A couple of questions though:
1- Will there be a new season in 2012?
2- Will 2013 have 11 reunite with past doctors for the 50th anniversary? If so I don't think I can handle the overload of Sexleccton and David Tennant X3

UGH waiting for more Who is gonna drive me bonkers, I should really consider watching the 3rd Doctor soon.
 
G

GSR

Member
Tizoc said:
A couple of questions though:
1- Will there be a new season in 2012?
2- Will 2013 have 11 reunite with past doctors for the 50th anniversary? If so I don't think I can handle the overload of Sexleccton and David Tennant X3
Click to expand...

1. Yes, but it won't start airing until the fall, and it seems like half the season might be fall 2012 and the other half spring 2013.

2. Nobody knows yet, though Moffat has said they're working on things for the anniversary. That said unless he's hella persuasive there's no way Eccleston is coming back; he's burned pretty much every bridge he had with the show.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
GSR said:
1. Yes, but it won't start airing until the fall, and it seems like half the season might be fall 2012 and the other half spring 2013.
Click to expand...
There aren't enough Pony episodes to keep sustained until then!


2. Nobody knows yet, though Moffat has said they're working on things for the anniversary. That said unless he's hella persuasive there's no way Eccleston is coming back; he's burned pretty much every bridge he had with the show.
Click to expand...
What?! What's Ecceleston's reason for not wanting to be the 9th Doctor?
 
B

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
It'll be hard to do a multi-Doctor special.
The first three actors are dead, Tom Baker is really old, Davison has already done a crossover and may be able to do it again, Colin Baker has not aged well at all, McCoy and McGann can work if they find a way around McGann's hair (he refuses to wear the wig), Eccelston outright refuses, and I'm sure Tennant would drop whatever he's doing and jump right on.

Unless they animate it and get really good impersonators.
 
I

infiniteloop

Member
BatDan said:
It'll be hard to do a multi-Doctor special.
The first three actors are dead, Tom Baker is really old, Davison has already done a crossover and may be able to do it again, Colin Baker has not aged well at all, McCoy and McGann can work if they find a way around McGann's hair (he refuses to wear the wig), Eccelston outright refuses, and I'm sure Tennant would drop whatever he's doing and jump right on.

Unless they animate it and get really good impersonators.
Click to expand...

I really hope they don't get Tom Baker and Colin Baker back in their old costumes. Saying "oh no, the time streams has aged you blah blah" is stretching it. That said people are going to want to see Tom in it.

McCoy has actually aged pretty well:

9991.jpg
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
PhoncipleBone said:
Oh, god. That would be killer. Anytime Ferguson gets a Scotsman on there insanity is unleashed.
Click to expand...

He should have used Fright Night as an excuse to get Tennant on.

MAN, 7th's costume is shit. If they bring him back for a special, they have to give him some new threads. Or at least have 11th give him loads of shit about it.
 
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