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[maharg]

It's especially cheap since in The Impossible Astronaut the characters wonder if it might be a duplicate or something, and then Canton shows up and says "That is most certainly the Doctor, and he is most certainly dead".

I mean, you can debate about why he would even know that, but from a narrative perspective it's just a huge middle finger to the viewer. You have characters question if it might be a duplicate, have another character show up to say "it's not a duplicate" with authority, in their only real role in that scene, and then twelve episodes later go "lol, it was a duplicate after all, guys".

I don't think Canton knew. The Doctor uses people, and he was using Canton.

Seriously. The only thing I can figure is that the explanation is so goddamn simple people refuse to believe it after years of convoluted and complicated twist endings.

And the whole season was about duplicates, basically. So it was entirely thematically consistent.

 

[BatDan]

I thought it made perfect sense.

What made me laugh is all the people complaining about it simulating regeneration. It can turn its legs into a motorcycle, I don't understand how regeneration is "too out there".

I guess you're right, people were expecting something overly-convoluted but we got something simple. There's nothing wrong with a simple solution, not everything needs to be paradox-inducing "timey-wimey" insanity.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I don't think Canton knew. The Doctor uses people, and he was using Canton.

Seriously. The only thing I can figure is that the explanation is so goddamn simple people refuse to believe it after years of convoluted and complicated twist endings.

And the whole season was about duplicates, basically. So it was entirely thematically consistent.

No, I don't think Canton knew, either. My point is that it's a narrative cheat to have a character say "no, it's not a duplicate, that's really him", and then have the big payoff 12 episodes later be "oh, it actually was a duplicate". I would be more accepting of the revelation if that line didn't exist at all.

I think the larger issue is that the whole "omg, the Doctor is really dead" plotline could never be resolved in any satisfying way that wasn't some sort of cheat. It would have to either be "The Doctor is magically revived", "Time can be rewritten", or "Oh, that wasn't actually him", and none of those are really satisfying conclusions to a 13 episode story arc.

 

[Quick]

I'm already smelling that new companion smell. Mmmmmm.

 

[GameplayWhore]

I'm already smelling that new companion smell. Mmmmmm.

Is there any chance that a new companion might be not from the current era? I'm getting a bit tired of that.

 

[Ceebs]

Is there any chance that a new companion might be not from the current era? I'm getting a bit tired of that.

I think that is why that Sophia Myles rumor would be the best possible choice.

 

[Quick]

I think that is why that Sophia Myles rumor would be the best possible choice.

I wouldn't mind seeing Madame de Pompadour as a companion, but I'll take a guest appearance. What a well-done episode.

 

[Choppasmith]

Latest shirt on Teefury

 

[gabbo]

I think that is why that Sophia Myles rumor would be the best possible choice.

While not a bad choice, I'd rather have someone completely new, possibly not from Earth but still human

 

[Quick]

While not a bad choice, I'd rather have someone completely new, possibly not from Earth but still human

I'd want to see someone with Earth knowledge like Mr. Copper from Voyage of the Damned to be a companion. Just imagine the hilarity of the Doctor and that companion visiting modern day Earth.

"What's an...Eye Phone?"

"It's a phone with, you know, an eye in it, or something. I dealt with eye things before!"

 

[maharg]

No, I don't think Canton knew, either. My point is that it's a narrative cheat to have a character say "no, it's not a duplicate, that's really him", and then have the big payoff 12 episodes later be "oh, it actually was a duplicate". I would be more accepting of the revelation if that line didn't exist at all.

If the character was simply lying to no end, it's a cheat. If it's a character being mistaken and misled by the very person they're talking about they're just an unreliable witness.

I think the larger issue is that the whole "omg, the Doctor is really dead" plotline could never be resolved in any satisfying way that wasn't some sort of cheat. It would have to either be "The Doctor is magically revived", "Time can be rewritten", or "Oh, that wasn't actually him", and none of those are really satisfying conclusions to a 13 episode story arc.

You seriously baffle me sometimes.

 

[wind_steaker]

No one has mentioned the new companion yet?

It's Jenna-Louise Coleman, who is apparently from Emmerdale.

 

[mclem]

I'm already smelling that new companion smell. Mmmmmm.

And it's... Jenna-Louise Coleman.

And if you think the name sounds vaguely familiar... it's:

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

If the character was simply lying to no end, it's a cheat. If it's a character being mistaken and misled by the very person they're talking about they're just an unreliable witness.

Yes, but it's a cheap storytelling device. It's a cheat to have a character say "that's not a duplicate" and then have the end result be "that's a duplicate". Even if Canton was mislead by the Doctor, there's no reason why Moffat needed to include that bit at all.

Telling the viewers in the first episode "that's really the Doctor, not a duplicate" and then going in episode thirteen "oh, that was just a duplicate" isn't an example of a cleverly written arc. It's just cheap writing in an attempt to trick people for no reason.

You seriously baffle me sometimes.

Because I don't want a 13 episode long story arc that I know from the start will result in a cop out ending of some kind (and surprise, it results in a cop out!)?

 

[Hot Coldman]

I'm down. Kinda wary because everyone in Emmerdale and Waterloo Road gives the worst possible perforances, but hey, she was in Captain America I guess :lol

She'll probably be good. In Moffat something something.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

So now I'm supposed to be happy about only getting 5 episodes this year? Screw this schedule. Moffat isn't even filming Sherlock again til 2013! DAMNIT!

 

[StalkerUKCG]

New companion... wonder how she will be, I kind of wanted moffat to have balls and just make a male only companion for once and watch the Doctor have a real bromance kind of what he has with Craig but much more so

 

[wind_steaker]

So now I'm supposed to be happy about only getting 5 episodes this year? Screw this schedule. Moffat isn't even filming Sherlock again til 2013! DAMNIT!

No, but god damn next year will be excellent.

 

[GSR]

A companion even more lively than 11? This'll be interesting to see.

 

[The Elite]

So now I'm supposed to be happy about only getting 5 episodes this year? Screw this schedule. Moffat isn't even filming Sherlock again til 2013! DAMNIT!

Damn. I thought they were going to sneak in the Sherlock filming this year.

Yeah, the change in the schedule sucks balls. So little Doctor Who these days.

New companion has a serious case of Selena Gomez face.

 

[Oxx]

Bit of a step-down from Xenoblade. Poor lass.

 

[maharg]

Because I don't want a 13 episode long story arc that I know from the start will result in a cop out ending of some kind (and surprise, it results in a cop out!)?

Pretty much every arc in doctor who ever has ended in a 'copout' by the standards you're suggesting. That's why you baffle me.

OMG THE DOCTOR DIDN'T DIE THIS EPISODE, WHAT A COPOUT!

 

[Sheppard]

Moffat isn't even filming Sherlock again til 2013! DAMNIT!

but....pfft.....awhhh...a.hwwww....



god damn it.

 

[Exterminieren]

And it's... Jenna-Louise Coleman.

And if you think the name sounds vaguely familiar... it's:

:0:0:0

And suddenly, I'm hyped.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Pretty much every arc in doctor who ever has ended in a 'copout' by the standards you're suggesting. That's why you baffle me.

OMG THE DOCTOR DIDN'T DIE THIS EPISODE, WHAT A COPOUT!

Well, that's why I said that they shouldn't have had an arc centered around the Doctor 'dying' to begin with, because it could only end in a cop out. We know the Doctor isn't going to die (or at least stay dead), so dedicating an entire season to that idea is idiotic. A good arc should have a satisfying conclusion, not "oh, that thing we said it wasn't? Yeah, it actually was".

To be honest, I would prefer Doctor Who not do story arcs, at any rate. I'm not opposed to having one every now and then, but I think the show was better when it was just focused on telling strong stories. The occasional arc (like the Key to Time or Black Guardian Trilogy) can be cool, but story arcs in Doctor Who shouldn't ever become a central focus. RTD's story arcs were better in my mind largely because they stayed in the background. You had a number of standalone stories, but there were some events in them that became relevant in the finale. None of his arcs were really great, but they also managed to avoid getting in the way of the first eleven episodes telling their own stories.

 

[Coppertracks]

Tweeted by Arthur earlier today. I loves them both

 

[King of the Potato People]

Will she be an alien? Blue paint may be all that is needed to make a good costume.

 

[twobear]

I'd well knob ben browder

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I think I'm experiencing a time loop where I keep seeing somebody like RTD's "arcs" and maharg goes nuts.

 

[The Technomancer]

Its going to be fun and difficult to not want to shout Melia's phrases at the screen whenever something dramatic happens.

 

[twobear]

Season 6 is up on Netflix.

Not in the UK, which is kind of ridiculous!

 

[gabbo]

No one has mentioned the new companion yet?

It's Jenna-Louise Coleman, who is apparently from Emmerdale.

Cute, but I've never seen any of her work, so I guess i'll see how she plays out.

 

[infiniteloop]

Episode 5 will

Spoiler

be the last with Amy & Rory and will also have the Weeping Angels. Daleks back in the first block of episodes too. New Companion is in at Christmas.

 

[ag-my001]

Its going to be fun and difficult to not want to shout Melia's phrases at the screen whenever something dramatic happens.

Excuse the terrible, terrible joke:

How does the Doctor not die at the lake?

Spoiler

Summon Copy

I will now hang myself in penance.

 

[maharg]

I think I'm experiencing a time loop where I keep seeing somebody like RTD's "arcs" and maharg goes nuts.

Hey now, RTD didn't come up at all.

 

[chiQ]

What is RTD?

 

[Clegg]

What is RTD?

A shit writer with a god complex.

 

[BatDan]

What is RTD?

Short for Russell T. Davies, the former showrunner and one of the men responsible for bringing Doctor Who back on air.

While fans praise him for bringing the show back, he's often criticized for his poor writing, over-use of references, unsubtle handling of sexuality (I'M JACK HARKNESS AND I FUCK EVERYTHING), and the Season 3 finale that made Care Bears look realistic (to me that's the worst finale)

There was also his pet treatment of Rose Tyler. While River Song is criticized for being Moffat's pet character, she's NOWHERE near as bad as Rose. At least River dies, and she's likeable. Rose is a massive bitch and got a horribly contrived happy ending where the much better Donna Noble got mind-wiped. Actually, I'm still debating if Season 4 was a worse finale than 3...

 

[Mr. Sam]

Bioware hired RTD to write the ME3 ending, right guys?

Guys?

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

unsubtle handling of sexuality (I'M JACK HARKNESS AND I FUCK EVERYTHING)

Leaving the rest of that post aside, I just have to mention that this was Moffat, not RTD.

RTD mentioned in the outline for Jack that he would be willing to sleep with anyone, but that it probably wouldn't come up in the show. Moffat said that he took that as a challenge and was determined to make Jack's sexuality front and center.

 

[twobear]

Leaving the rest of that post aside, I just have to mention that this was Moffat, not RTD.

RTD mentioned in the outline for Jack that he would be willing to sleep with anyone, but that it probably wouldn't come up in the show. Moffat said that he took that as a challenge and was determined to make Jack's sexuality front and center.

OK, this explains the handful of comments in The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances. What about all the other, non-Moffat penned, Captain Jack appearances including four series of Torchwood?

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

OK, this explains the handful of comments in The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances. What about all the other, non-Moffat penned, Captain Jack appearances including four series of Torchwood?

Moffat was responsible for setting that up. Jack was simply being written as consistent with that original introduction. Not to mention that RTD wasn't heavily involved with most of Torchwood.

 

[Hot Coldman]

What is RTD?

real time defecation

 

[twobear]

Moffat was responsible for setting that up. Jack was simply being written as consistent with that original introduction. Not to mention that RTD wasn't heavily involved with most of Torchwood.

When I think of that opening episode, I mostly think of a charming shyster. What he turned into was a lecherous faux-mysterious dick. I don't think I blame that on consistency with the way he was written in the first episode.

 

[maharg]

When I think of that opening episode, I mostly think of a charming shyster. What he turned into was a lecherous faux-mysterious dick. I don't think I blame that on consistency with the way he was written in the first episode.

Yeah he came off as flirty and sexual in his introduction episode, but not exactly quite the lech he became later (mostly in Torchwood imo). I don't think that's necessarily either RTD or Moffat's fault, though.

 

[mclem]

Its going to be fun and difficult to not want to shout Melia's phrases at the screen whenever something dramatic happens.

Actually, can we go the whole hog and actually have Melia as companion? That'd be just fine by me.

 

[BatDan]

When I think of that opening episode, I mostly think of a charming shyster. What he turned into was a lecherous faux-mysterious dick. I don't think I blame that on consistency with the way he was written in the first episode.

Basically this. He started out as just a con artist with interest in both men and women. But further characterization turned him into an even worse Glenn Quagmire. That's how bad it is... I had to reference Family Guy.

 

[BackwardsSuggestions]

One season split between 2 years? WTF, BBC?

 

[twobear]

I really think that the production team were trying to create The Doctor 2.0 with Jack. To me it was so forced it became infuriating. They even gave him a way to cheat death to echo regeneration. But because Jack had existed for two series instead of 40 years, he just felt completely two dimensional and instead of character depth or mystery he just stood on rooftops looking pensive BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT DEEP, MYSTERIOUS CHARACTERS DO.

Don't even get me started on the other Torchwood characters. Whoever planned the character arc that took Ianto from having his girlfriend shot by his work colleagues to starting a gay relationship with one of them three episodes later (with no foreshadowing at all) should be ashamed.

 

[Quick]

Don't even get me started on the other Torchwood characters. Whoever planned the character arc that took Ianto from having his girlfriend shot by his work colleagues to starting a gay relationship with one of them three episodes later (with no foreshadowing at all) should be ashamed.

I gave up on Torchwood at this point.