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Doctor Who Series 2011 |OT| Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Stuff
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
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KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
The issue is that they didn't seem to have any idea of what to do with Ianto, so his personality and purpose was changing all throughout the first season. They finally seemed to get a handle on him by Series 2, but some of that damage was done. The ignoring of everything with his girlfriend just made that stuff worse.
Torchwood Series 1 is a bit of a mess, where it doesn't really seem like the left hand knew what the right was doing (although there were a couple of very good episodes). The writing is all over the place.
Coppertracks
Member
Supposedly we're getting more than just the announced 8 next year. How many more is up for debate.
Yeah I hate Jack. Badly written and his returns in Who have been utterly pointless. Barrowman's over inflated sense of self worth doesn't help.
I did like that episode where they spent the whole thing saying 'WHO COULD HAVE DONE THIS THE INHUMAN MONSTERS' and then it turned out it was just Welsh yokels.
[edit]Also, the silly stuff they started doing in Torchwood has completely wrecked the continuity with Who. I've basically got no idea how they could even begin to claim that Torchwood and Who are still set in the same universe.
bengraven
Member
I don't think Moffat gives a fuck as long as it's a good story. If he killed them both then he's basically the only writer who's ever killed every single one of his companions (see: Silence in the Library for the third).
Children of Earth and Miracle Day are proof enough. Those were the types of disasters that would set off the Cloister Bell or something equally worse. But where's the Doctor? It doesn't make sense that these normal alien hunters can solve all this insane shit.
Funny how the writer that's all about "Everybody Lives" is so willing to kill companions.
Box of Bunnies
Banned
I only watched the first season of Torchwood, didn't care for it enough to watch any more. It'd only be my desire for a threesome with Eve Myles' accent and John Barrowman that'd keep me into it.
Why would CoE set off the cloister bells? I'm not even sure why Miracle Day would, even. I don't think it's a leap to assume that sometimes the Doctor doesn't come, and thus sometimes humans take care of themselves.
I know it was his first episode and all, but I don't think Everybody Lives is supposed to be his mantra or anything. His next story had the pseudocompanion die of old age with the Doctor helpless to stop it, and then obviously River.
Isn't the full line, "Just this once, everybody lives"?
The Elite
BOSS
Most TV shows in North America are split between two years. They start in the fall and end in the spring with a short hiatus around Christmas.
Since the problems of Children of Earth and Miracle Day were solved without the Doctor, why would he ever need to interfere in them? The Doctor wasn't needed and thus there was no reason for him to be there.
PalaceBrother
Member
Has this been mentioned?
8 hours left on this Othertees design. It's nice.
http://www.othertees.com/
8 hours left on this Othertees design. It's nice.
http://www.othertees.com/
GameplayWhore
Member
That shouldn't be a hindrance. In "The Big Bang", the universe was rebooted in a way such that the Doctor never existed. So it turns out the Earth got past all their pre-2010 crises without him.
In the RTD/Moffat Whoniverse, the Doctor is no longer important for the survival of Humanity (or, in fact, the universe). I find this an endlessly fascinating data nugget to mull over.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Well, many of those crises would no longer exist in that timeline either.
Ivan A Nguyen
Member
Rule #1. The Doctor lies.
infiniteloop
Member
Not really related, but...
I love this trough ton interview:
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/54329
On Colin Baker: "Miss Piggy! He's a little bit overweight."
I love this trough ton interview:
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/54329
On Colin Baker: "Miss Piggy! He's a little bit overweight."
Hot Coldman
Banned
Well, some of them. For all of the crowing about the Doctor attracting danger, Batman-style, there's still been a hell of a lot of instances where aliens invade Earth and the Doctor accidentally happens upon it.
But whatever, it's a perfectly acceptable plot hole given that, well, it's Doctor Who.
Flatline
Banned
Are you sure man? I'd sleep on it before deciding.
Seriously though, wow at that picture.
EleventhDoctor
Banned
She might be the breast companion yet.
hmmm not bad
would. i would in a new york minute.
The Elite
BOSS
I spent five minutes trying to figure out what a "trough ton" is. Then I bothered to check out the video.
radioheadrule83
Banned
In an adult show I'd say yes, but if the beeb want to avoid terminally upsetting kids, neither of them will die.
I can't believe I hadn't popped in the thread to comment on Jenna Louise...
as the Churchill dog says:
OH YES!
Splitting a single season over two years? WTF? Why?
I didn't really even like it when they split Series 6 between spring and autumn. Moffat's justification was "Now Doctor Who fans will never have to wait more than a few months for new episodes!" So what now? Between the the Christmas Special and the Season 7 premiere it will have been probably 9-10 months.
I know that BBC viewers are probably used to shows with screwed up production/airing schedules, but I think this is really going to harm a lot of the show's momentum in the USA. I hope they can at least get things back on target and set up Season 8 for a Fall 2013 premiere.
I didn't really even like it when they split Series 6 between spring and autumn. Moffat's justification was "Now Doctor Who fans will never have to wait more than a few months for new episodes!" So what now? Between the the Christmas Special and the Season 7 premiere it will have been probably 9-10 months.
I know that BBC viewers are probably used to shows with screwed up production/airing schedules, but I think this is really going to harm a lot of the show's momentum in the USA. I hope they can at least get things back on target and set up Season 8 for a Fall 2013 premiere.
Hot Coldman
Banned
2013 is going to have so much Doctor Who, so they're probably taking a break now so they can actually have a production break later.
I guess I'm having trouble understanding why as the show gets even more successful and makes even more money, they seem to be having trouble outputting content on the same schedule as when budgets were probably much smaller. Remember that 2009 didn't even have a season at all -- just 4 specials, most of which aired at the end of the year.
Is that what actually happened? That doesn't seem to make sense. If the universe was rebooted but the doctor never existed then why does everyone still know who he is come 'A Good Man Goes to War' and why do the Silence fear him so much?
It's because of who's running the show. RTD Julie and Phil worked their asses off, can't say the same for the current team, they just don't have the same passion.
GameplayWhore
Member
Some of them are guaranteed to. For example, the Earth should have been destroyed by deep drilling in the 1970s ("Inferno") or retaken by the Silurians angry at deep drilling in the 2000s ("The Hungry Earth"/"Cold Blood"). I can't see how the Doctor not being born would stop the Daleks or the Cybermen from coming into being. There's that spider-thing in the center of the Earth who probably should have devoured everyone several years ago. Scaroth (who must have existed, as he caused civilization on Earth as we know it to exist) probably would have still tried to travel back in time and undo the existence of Homo Sapiens. The Dæmons and their final judgement of Humanity would still have had to be dealt with. Omega's plan to negate the universe would still have needed to be dealt with.
There are a few problems which the Doctor's existence has caused to be (any time, for instance, that the Master has threatened life on Earth directly). Most of them he had no influence on the genesis of. However, there are two things we can say about this changed, Doctor-less universe:
A. If the Doctor never existed and the crises happened, then other people handled the situation successfully.
B. If the Doctor never existed and the crises happened, then he was somehow directly or indirectly responsible for those crises happening in the first place.
Either way, the Doctor's net effect on the universe is pretty much a zero sum. His biggest accomplishment is that he's basically come in and taken the credit for solving problems that could have been solved without him.
There's that, too. I just like complaining. Time Lords, always comin' in to our country and takin' err jerbs....
GameplayWhore
Member
It was un-rebooted by the power of believing.
edit: Just to clarify, that's not actually a snarky joke. That was the resolution for the 2010 series. I'm not even sure what technically is considered to have actually happened in that season and what was unwritten. Surely, Amy now has a family, and the Tardis didn't explode anymore, right?
I think that's part of my problem with the series. Some stuff from previous series was unwritten by the cracks in space, and then the cracks ceased to exist (or probably never existed at all), and other stuff from that series was unwritten. But I no longer know what happened and what didn't. It's almost like they strived to make non-continuity canon in the Doctor Who universe.
I mean, did any of the alien invasions of the past seven tv years happen now?
Well, it would be paradoxical if the Doctor had never existed, because the TARDIS could never have exploded.
With the Daleks at least, the Doctor plays a key role in their history, most significantly in Genesis of the Daleks when the Time Lords send him to stop their creation.
GameplayWhore
Member
I was thinking about that. But they initially came to existence without his influence. What he did as a result of his interference was to delay their rise by some number of centuries.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
DEM BUDGET CUTS
JoshuaJSlone
Member
I think I misunderstood--I was thinking about the version of things where there was only Earth in the universe, so there would be no threats from non-Earth-based life.GameplayWhore said:
The version after that, though, I thought what happened to the Doctor was much like everything else that had ended up sucked into that crack--they had still existed and the effects they caused were still in play, but no direct evidence remained of them. Just as Amy Pond could exist without Amy Pond's Parents, the effects of Doctor Saving the Day could happen without the Doctor seeming to be around. Admittedly, it's nearing two years since I watched the episode.
Still, the Doctors part in the creation of the Daleks is sufficient to change things if he wasn't there. His failure is effectively the start of the Dalek-Time Lord conflict. If there was no Doctor, the Time Lords would have sent somebody else. There isn't enough disclosed about the no-Doctor universe to know how things would have gone without him. Somebody else, another Time Lord, could have stepped up and took his place.
Another way to look at it is that the TARDIS purposely takes him to where he's needed, rather than the Doctor accidentally happening upon situations.
GameplayWhore
Member
I think the crux of the problem is that I don't understand the bolded statement. It just doesn't make sense to me. The effects they caused are direct evidence. Basically, what's being implied is that everything that a now-"erased" person did happened and continued to have most effects, but certain very specific things which that person caused to be have been very selectively removed, those things been the specific chemicals in specific neurons of everybody's brain, any newsprint referencing the person or event, any specific reference in a book or on the Internet making mention thereof. But it still requires that people in history did the same things despite these words and memories no longer existing. Clive didn't obsess over the Doctor appearing all over history, but he still managed to do the same basic things and still died at the same exact time. Rassilon is (was, at that particular point) currently hanging around on Gallifrey, wondering why they're stuck in a time envelope and never got around to destroying the universe. Jenny and Susan are puttering around in their own home centuries, not actually wondering how they came to exist.
It just seems to require a massive suspension of disbelief several orders of magnitude greater than what this show (or almost any show in history that I can think of) typically has required in the past.
Dr Zhivago
Member
evilwart said:
They made this explicit in The Doctor's Wife.
The cracks never made any sense. They erased Amy parents, but Amy still exists? When those soldiers were erased, how come other soldiers weren't assigned to that unit? It seems they only erased peoples memories of a thing, rather than the thing's entire existence.
GameplayWhore
Member
This was the best fanservice episode of anything ever. You have no idea how many pretty girls I've seen at conventions and steampunk events and other nerd gatherings who now wear what are, essentially, TARDISes. It's not even limited to that weirdly erotic corset that's been making the rounds!
WordAssassin
Member
Has this been mentioned?
8 hours left on this Othertees design. It's nice.
http://www.othertees.com/
BOUGHT
Jesus Christ bought so fast OMG
Thank you for posting that
Did they erase the Racknoss, Daleks at Canary Wharf, etc.? None of that was ever really resolved and it really bummed me out. AFAIK in the current Whoniverse no one has ever seen any sort of alien. Hopefully with the introduction of a new companion they'll go into this more, but who knows.
Exterminieren
Banned
I really don't think this is true. Moffat's had a reduced budget, and he and the team have still managed to make the show look a million bucks.
Also, the gap year came on RTD's watch.
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