I think RTD was just at a loss for how to give the two of them anything resembling a positive send-off. They were both such one-note characters with minimal aspirations (and what few they had appeared to have been met already). But he HAD to do his ridiculous three hour tour.
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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
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We won't hear anything about a 12th doctor outside of rumours till we learn that Matt is actually leaving, and DW rumours have to be some of the least reliable going around, lol.
Future Foundation
Member
People were pissed about the "Nina" thing on Tumblr too, but for different reasons. Oswin calling Nina "a phase" was Moffat disrespecting lesbian/gay relationships by lessening them to "just a phase" because "that's what he thinks of them".
Best part, it was all written in tags.
meltingparappa
Member
Someone on tumblr claimed that Moffat hates women or homosexuals!?!
I've never seen something like that and can't imagine it ever happening!
It's Radagast the Brown from The Hobbit, a Wizard like Gandalf, who is played by Sylvester McCoy who was the 7th Doctor.
Or the 7th Doctor did a lot of traveling before the TV movie and is Radagast
Hot Coldman
Banned
That's virtually the same trailer as the one we got at Christmas.
Seems to be the same one that ran after the Christmas special.
This has probably been posted already, but it's still so very awesome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmK3AQ2Yozk
Messofanego
Banned
"All flash, no depth...like all the Steven Moffat episodes! OBSCURE NERD BURN!"
I don't watch Doctor Who, but is this true? I thought people loved them some Moffat.
I don't watch Doctor Who, but is this true? I thought people loved them some Moffat.
APZonerunner
Member
People do like Moffat and they're right to. Moffat's basically better at the really tight sci-fi plotting, twists, menacing monsters and things like that. The previous show runner was better at the emotional stuff - a surprising amount of his best material took place in pretty regular sets like cafes and things like that for a sci-fi show, which is telling, I'd say.
Depends on your definition of flash and depth, really. There was certainly a lot more character stuff going on from 2005-2009, but that era was equally guilty for having threats and things that were also flashy and lacking in depth. 2010-2013 is pretty much the reverse of that, I think, with much more credible sci-fi stuff going on, but less excellent character stuff. There are still excellent character moments, mind, just as the previous era had its share of well-executed sci-fi concepts and alien threats.
Neither bad, imo. Both valid. Just different slices of the same show. I guess I'd also say the show in general in all its modern incarnations has problems with resolution a bit too often.
Depends on your definition of flash and depth, really. There was certainly a lot more character stuff going on from 2005-2009, but that era was equally guilty for having threats and things that were also flashy and lacking in depth. 2010-2013 is pretty much the reverse of that, I think, with much more credible sci-fi stuff going on, but less excellent character stuff. There are still excellent character moments, mind, just as the previous era had its share of well-executed sci-fi concepts and alien threats.
Neither bad, imo. Both valid. Just different slices of the same show. I guess I'd also say the show in general in all its modern incarnations has problems with resolution a bit too often.
This is a good way of putting it.
infiniteloop
Member
An Adventure in Space and Time (creation of Doctor Who drama) starts filming in 2 weeks. I would imagine we'll get some casting soon.
I just had a thought, after re-watching the end of S4.
If the boundaries between realities weakened to the point where Rose and Mickey can jump between realities, and if we assume that there's at least one reality where the Time War doesn't happen, then shouldn't at least a couple of the Time Lords have been able to do the same?
If the boundaries between realities weakened to the point where Rose and Mickey can jump between realities, and if we assume that there's at least one reality where the Time War doesn't happen, then shouldn't at least a couple of the Time Lords have been able to do the same?
APZonerunner
Member
While it hasn't been said outright in the show, the expanded media and interviews and things like that with showrunners have suggested that the Time Lords are a universe agnostic thing; there's only one set, and they stride across all universes. Or did, anyway.
The closest we get in the show is in Rise of the Cybermen when the Doctor explains they "kept their eye on everything" hopping from one parallel to another. They wouldn't need to do that if each reality had its own version of them.
The truth is if they wanted more Time Lords they'd do 'em, they'd find a reason. It is a time travel show after all, he could bump into one who hasn't experienced the war yet. The reason they killed them all off is because they were really a large part of the decline of Classic Who - by making them as much a staple as the Daleks or Cybermen, it was sucking all the mystery out of the Doctor. It's better with them dead.
I'm fine with the Time Lords being gone. I'm just sort of shocked they've gone this long without bringing back the Master.
EleventhDoctor
Banned
Yeah me too. Bring back the master for the 50th PLEASE!
And The Time War/writing away Time Lords was the best idea RTD ever had.
infiniteloop
Member
Watched Deadly Assassins and Invasion of Time recently. Timelords are boring.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
What? I mean, Invasion of Time is a piece of shit, but Deadly Assassin is a classic.
infiniteloop
Member
yeah, but the time lords themselves are pretty dull with their ________ of Rasillon.
StealthGoblin
Banned
I desperately want Omega to have a massive role in the 50th.
thequickandthedead
Member
There's one thing about Doctor Who i really don't understand. Is each incarnation of the doctor really the same person in a different body? If so then why was the 10th doctor so unwilling to regenerate? And why does the 11th doctor greet Sarah Jane and Jo like old friends if each incarnation of the doctor really is a different person? I'm confused.
I haven't done any research on the process, but based soley on New Who, I just assumed that each new incarnation is an entirely different person with the same memories. It's like if you were to kill someone and download someone else's entire life into your mind, but would keep your distinct personality. You'd have access to everything they ever knew, ever experienced, and ever loved, but would still be a separate person, with the original memory holders being effectively dead.
Exterminieren
Banned
Deadly Assassin is great, but it really kinda killed the Time Lords' potential. All that sense of an omnipotent, unknowable society, replaced by political squabbling and a dusty, outdated culture.
I prefer my Time Lords as myth and legend as opposed to Yes Prime Minister.
It normally seems to go that there's a sort of core "Doctorishness" that runs between each Doctor, with personality quirks that differ between each of them. For example, Tom Baker's Doctor was more mercurial and eccentric, whereas Peter Davison's was more mannered and quietly exasperated. Often, these largely come from the actor's interpretation of the role; Russell T. Davies wrote a fairly generic Doctor archetype for Death of the Doctor, but it was recognisably the Eleventh Doctor because of how Smith played.
Obviously these things evolve throughout the process of making the series. Towards the start of Smith's era, and particularly in stuff like The Time of Angels, he was written as standard Doctor, but people noticed his gangly, awkward physicality and rapid delivery, and started tailoring moments for that; his speech to the spaceships in The Pandorica Opens jumps easily to mind. It's also the reason Smith's Doctor has had so many scenes interacting and playing off kids; Smith is really great at playing opposite them. Look at this bit he did at the Proms a few years ago for proof.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
He's the same man, but each regeneration leaves the Doctor changed in some ways, since he's basically dying and being reborn.
The 10th Doctor was facing his own death, and the fact that he would change and be 'a new man'. He was reacting against that change. That doesn't mean that the 11th Doctor isn't still the Doctor, but he's also changed based on his experiences. Like how a person after graduating college is different than when they were in middle school.
I feel like the Deadly Assassin version makes perfect sense as the kind of society that the Doctor would rebel against. Besides, Time Lord outfits are amazing. I love the funny hats and colored outfits.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
He maintains all of his memories, but he also gets a new personality that comes with each new body.
APZonerunner
Member
It's the same man with a new face and a new everything. That said, his brain does regenerate too, and with it so goes the old personality. There's the core of the man there, absolutely - you could recognize certain things about The Doctor without any acknowledgement of what version he is - but much of his personality does shift and change.
Some new man does go "sauntering away," as the Tenth Doctor says. It still is him - still the Doctor with the same thoughts and memories and all the rest - but the personality is different, the old one gone - and so how he processes and reacts to those situations is different. ("I hate bow ties," the Tenth Doctor says!) You can hear it, brilliantly, in both The Christmas Invasion, New Earth and The Eleventh Hour - these are episodes written as a bridge, and you can hear many lines in these three episodes that feel like they've fallen out of a script for the previous Doctor. I really love in particular the "It is gonna be... Fantastic" (the only time he says it), and the "I'm the Doctor and I healed them," speech at the end of New Earth, which 1) sounds incredibly like The Doctor Dances in its tone/delivery and 2) very unlike the Tenth Doctor we see later on. In the Eleventh Hour, there's a very gradual sort of shift... the Tenth Doctor sort of leaks out of him through the episode. It's wonderfully written and played.
That's why it's a traumatic experience in general. The Tenth Doctor probably would've put on a braver face in different circumstances, but was alone and a bit bitter. He was a very sentimental version of the character, too, and was very found of being who he was. If he'd had someone with him or hadn't died so soon (based on the ages stated in the show, The Tenth Doctor only lives for five to six years, whereas the Eleventh already has several hundred chalked up off-screen) he'd probably have been much more different.
I imagine for instance that if Rose hadn't been there the Ninth Doctor wouldn't have been so triumphant, he'd have just raged or quietly accepting. It was being alone for him more than anything, I think. Only the Seventh Doctor died alone, and that was relatively quick, as he was literally shot in the heart by LA gangbangers (lol) and then died in theatre as the humans operating on him did more to hurt than to help. He doesn't have a chance to be sad about dying alone, as he spends his final moments panicked and pleading with them not to operate on him before being sent under for the procedure.
For some more information on regeneration, though, we can look to the classic series. The second Doctor's regeneration is forced on him by the Time Lords, for instance - it's a punishment for meddling where he shouldn't. The Time Lords actually give him the choice of several faces, and the second Doctor refuses, he says he hates them all. They force it on him anyway (implications of this for if the Doctor could choose his own face, too) and he goes screaming, because he too didn't want to go, and he felt he was being dealt an injustice.
I do wonder if Matt'll be graceful or not, especially as his personal favourite Doctor is the second, and he asked Moffat to build a lot of his base 11th Doc characterisations around him. Eleven is as bumbling, clumsy and lightly emotional as Two.. and two kicked and screamed more than any of them. It was a shit way to go, mind.
Regeneration is a sticky old subject, really, but it definitely is the same man, yeah. But, really - imagine your personality and appearance was going to be wiped away! It's not exactly a nice thought, even if you get to live on. What if you come out the other side a psychopath? He almost did that too, really, with his sixth incarnation.
Future Foundation
Member
acheron_xl
Member
Janet Fielding tweeted this pic. Figure any time 5 Doctors are together in one location, it's mildly newsworthy.
Pretty much all the old Doctors look so... old. Which is reasonable because they are old, but whenever I see pictures of them I realize it'll be pretty hard to put together a multi-Doctor-story for the Anniversary unless they only stick to McGann/Eccleston/Tennant/Smith. Not even make-up and CGI can over up that aging.
Put a wig on McCoy and he's ready race back into action.
Also, is Tennant that tall or are Doctors filmed from below? I always thought Davidson looked short, but I guess I was way off
Regarding the regeneration discussion: Other than arbitrary soundbites (I think we got the tiniest hint of Tennant in The Rebel Flesh, for instance), I wonder a story could work around the idea of the 'dead' Doctors still being buried in there somewhere and occasionally coming to the surface. Could be a fun challenge for the principal actor at the time!
APZonerunner
Member
There's been sound bytes here and there, yeah.
In that story, the Eleventh Doctor repeats the First Doctor's last words (the original sound clip presumably didn't have the quality), and then actually speaks IN the fourth and tenth Doctor's voices in clips ripped directly from two of their stories. There's a similar bit in 'Utopia' where The Master hears three of his previous incarnations, using clips ripped from old stories, as well as a recorded clip of Derek Jacobi speaking evilly as The Master (so pre-watch), as he opens the watch. There's a particularly wonderful use of an old line, "Destroy him! And give your power to me!" - which I think is fantastically placed, considering opening the watch 'kills' Yana (like John Smith) and resurrects the Master.
They're definitely still 'in' there somewhere; that's why, I suppose, each regeneration does end up cribbing bits from previous Doctors. It's like a personality trait wardrobe.
infiniteloop
Member
infiniteloop
Member
Just sounds like speculation with some old quotes rehashed.
I was going to avoid this thread until I had seen the Christmas special and forgot to come back >_>
My sister turned on the TV yesterday just as the episode where the TARDIS was a lady was on and that was her first Who experience. And we just finished watching Blink. She loves the show, I just wish she had more free time so she could watch it.
My sister turned on the TV yesterday just as the episode where the TARDIS was a lady was on and that was her first Who experience. And we just finished watching Blink. She loves the show, I just wish she had more free time so she could watch it.
APZonerunner
Member
That's not actually Matt in costume but a bloody good lookalike, before anyone gets over-excited with real-show connotations.
It's probably happening, though, at least with some of them.
It's probably happening, though, at least with some of them.
APZonerunner
Member
http://twitter.com/BlogtorWho/status/293718450877104128/photo/1
From the BBC booth at a UK trade show thing.
Bit gutted that, if this is correct, the 50th special will only be one hour long episode. I was hoping for something like The End of Time, length wise.
From the BBC booth at a UK trade show thing.
Bit gutted that, if this is correct, the 50th special will only be one hour long episode. I was hoping for something like The End of Time, length wise.
The Elite
BOSS
Very disappointing. But there is no mention of a Christmas Special either. That strikes me as odd.
APZonerunner
Member
There will be a Christmas special, for sure, and there's scope for more episodes - "will include," after all - but since they refer to the 50th Special as 1x 60, that presumably is what Moffat has been commissioned to write. Shame.
The Christmas special might not be on there deliberately to avoid speculation, as rumours right now indicate it might be Christmas Day and New Years' Day, with Matt potentially going. They'd probably have to list both episodes due to BBC rules and all that, so it might just be better to list neither.
Again, I think the fight of Julie Gardner, who'd always kick and scream for the show to get extensions, is missed.
The Christmas special might not be on there deliberately to avoid speculation, as rumours right now indicate it might be Christmas Day and New Years' Day, with Matt potentially going. They'd probably have to list both episodes due to BBC rules and all that, so it might just be better to list neither.
Again, I think the fight of Julie Gardner, who'd always kick and scream for the show to get extensions, is missed.
Exterminieren
Banned
So... what the hell is Doctor Who Revisited?
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