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[King of the Potato People]

I hope they bring John Simm back for one last episode and a regeneration, he's an excellent actor who deserves better than the garbage he had to with from The End of Time.

There doesn't have to be anything wrong with a scene-stealing, scenery-chewing villain yet Russel literally wrote him as the master who stole almost everyone's body and ate tramps.

 

[EndcatOmega]

Are any of the actors who played the pre-Roberts Masters still alive? It doesn't look like it : |

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Are any of the actors who played the pre-Roberts Masters still alive? It doesn't look like it : |

Geoffrey Beevers is still alive and plays the Master for Big Finnish regularly. The others are all sadly no longer with us.

 

[StealthGoblin]

A name who isn't thrown around a lot, but would be an awesome cold as ice Master is Jason Issacs.

Him playing a logical Master that acts older than Matt Smith's rather manic Doctor would be lovely.

 

[Exterminieren]

Beevers, Roberts, Jacobi and Simm are the ones we still have with us, yeah.

I realise it's almost impossible to make it fit, but I'd dearly like to see more of Jacobi's Master.

 

[King of the Potato People]

I'm not sure whether Eric Roberts would be willing to dress for the occasion again.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I'm not sure whether Eric Roberts would be willing to dress for the occasion again.

I think you mean 'drezz for the occasion'.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I like to think the movie is a very, very inaccurate telling of an Eighth Doctor story that may or may not have happened

 

[Exterminieren]

I wished they'd kept that line in The End of Time about the half-human thing being like a "24 hour bug."

The concept of the Doctor catching human is an amazing one.

 

[Axiom]

I think Jacobi was more menacing in 5 minutes than Simm was in his entire role, but I still liked his Master.
I like the idea of the Master being a counterpoint to whichever current incarnation the Doctor is in, which is why Cumberbatch is such a good choice as its very easy to see him as an evil version of Matt Smith.

It still won't happen with Benedict, but I still think that if and when a Master returns, they should be very much a corrupted version of the current Doctor in style and look. The Alec Trevelyan concept.

 

[gabbo]

The Alec Trevelyan concept.

An actor who won't mind being killed off, can play villains with ease, willing to do TV work, is English.....

 

[The Real Abed]

Everybody always goes to Benedict Cumberbatch for The Master, but I honestly think that if they were going to take an actor from Sherlock to play The Master, Martin Freeman would be a far more interesting choice, if perhaps a bit iconoclastic (and I say this is somebody who loves Cumberbatch greatly). We're used to seeing him play the more subdued roles or the straight man, but I think with some quality writing the guy could pull something off really sinister and dangerous to match Matt Smith's Doctor.

Martin Freeman would make my friend Nicole's head explode with delightment overload.

John Malkovich for the Master!

This too.

I hope they bring John Simm back for one last episode and a regeneration, he's an excellent actor who deserves better than the garbage he had to with from The End of Time.

There doesn't have to be anything wrong with a scene-stealing, scenery-chewing villain yet Russel literally wrote him as the master who stole almost everyone's body and ate tramps.

I'd settle for this. I'd like to at least see how he changes. In Utopia we see him change. The question is when did he change into that persona? Who was he battling against as his previous incarnation that he lost to and transformed into the old man? Obviously not The Doctor since he didn't recognize him at all.

 

[JohnsonUT]

How does this last episode fit into River's chronology and her getting out of jail? I thought her time went backwards as his went forward. Or is that just a general rule and they can criss-cross paths? Timey Wimey?

 

[CorrisD]

A name who isn't thrown around a lot, but would be an awesome cold as ice Master is Jason Issacs.

Him playing a logical Master that acts older than Matt Smith's rather manic Doctor would be lovely.

You know, there was a rumour back a year that he had supposedly met with Moffat in some meeting, at least I think it was him, but as per usual nothing ever came from these rumours.

How does this last episode fit into River's chronology and her getting out of jail? I thought her time went backwards as his went forward. Or is that just a general rule and they can criss-cross paths? Timey Wimey?

They just meet erratically, his first was her last, but it isn't the other way around.
But as she said in the episode she is now professor Song and is out of jail, which means this River isn't that far off the River we first met. There is some chart somewhere that people have tried to sort out.

I'm still hoping we get one last episode where he gives her his screwdriver, characters should get endings IMO and not just left to drift off one day.

 

[Ventilaator]

But as she said in the episode she is now professor Song and is out of jail, which means this River isn't that far off the River we first met. There is some chart somewhere that people have tried to sort out.

She also said she got out of jail because the Doctor never existed, which means things I don't even want to begin to think about.

 

[The Real Abed]

If he technically never existed now, how are they still married?

Also, I'm glad to know that when we first see her, she's not the jailbird we saw for the last two seasons.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Works, Its a dream team really, As much as im ambiguous about Matt Smith I think the chemistry that could unfold between Him and Cumberbatch would be amazing. If he played the role as he does with Sherlock but added a darker edge to it it could be something amazing.

 

[mclem]

She also said she got out of jail because the Doctor never existed, which means things I don't even want to begin to think about.

There's a plotpoint in Forest of the Dead where the Doctor invites the Vashta Nerada to look him up in the library they're inhabiting.

In River's timeline, that can't happen

My head hurts.

 

[CorvoSol]

I was gonna say I wanted Timothy Dalton to play The Master, but I just remembered he played some other Time Lord.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

I was gonna say I wanted Timothy Dalton to play The Master, but I just remembered he played some other Time Lord.

Rasilon and he was criminally under used. Rasilon was practically a Time Lord God

 

[APZonerunner]

Works, Its a dream team really, As much as im ambiguous about Matt Smith I think the chemistry that could unfold between Him and Cumberbatch would be amazing. If he played the role as he does with Sherlock but added a darker edge to it it could be something amazing.

In many ways it's just too obvious, which is why I doubt Moffat will do it. He's already writing Sherlock for Cumberbatch, I doubt he wants to write a second major character for the same actor at the same time - and I'm sure any episodes with The Master will be major, therefore penned by Moffat.

 

[Dr Zhivago]

Martin Freeman would make my friend Nicole's head explode with delightment overload.
This too.

I'd settle for this. I'd like to at least see how he changes. In Utopia we see him change. The question is when did he change into that persona? Who was he battling against as his previous incarnation that he lost to and transformed into the old man? Obviously not The Doctor since he didn't recognize him at all.

Time war. He was resurrected in an unknown guise and either this was Jacobi, or regenerated into the Jacobi version.

 

[maharg]

If he technically never existed now, how are they still married?

Also, I'm glad to know that when we first see her, she's not the jailbird we saw for the last two seasons.

They got married in an alternate timeline that no longer exists and *this* is your concern?

 

[gblues]

There's a plotpoint in Forest of the Dead where the Doctor invites the Vashta Nerada to look him up in the library they're inhabiting.

In River's timeline, that can't happen

My head hurts.

The Doctor deleted himself from the uinverse's databases. You can't delete yourself from a printed book without a shit-ton of white-out. The Vashta Nerada would have still had plenty of things to read up on the Doctor.

 

[The Technomancer]

There's a plotpoint in Forest of the Dead where the Doctor invites the Vashta Nerada to look him up in the library they're inhabiting.

In River's timeline, that can't happen

My head hurts.

The whole "delete from the universe's databases" thing only works if we allow for a "meta-time" that does flow linearly even if regular time is jump-aroundable. Otherwise the whole "erase all traces of me" thing would cause massive problems for pretty much every incarnation of the Doctor.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I think we can have weird time-stream crossovers like that. In "Time Crash", the Time Lords are still around for Peter Davison, they're gone for Tennant, and yet there they are, occupying the same space and time...

 

[The Technomancer]

I think we can have weird time-stream crossovers like that. In "Time Crash", the Time Lords are still around for Peter Davison, they're gone for Tennant, and yet there they are, occupying the same space and time...

I think that was because the war was time locked, which after reading some wiki articles and drawing my own conclusions means that the conclusion of the war was locked into being, there was no possible way to change events so that it would not occur.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I think that was because the war was time locked, which after reading some wiki articles and drawing my own conclusions means that the conclusion of the war was locked into being, there was no possible way to change events so that it would not occur.

They never really went in-depth about the Time War- I always just figured it was tantamount to establishing a bubble universe where all the fighting of the Time War got placed. It's very confusing.

Meta-time is definitely a thing in the Who universe though- things are constantly changing as we go further along the Doctor's personal time-stream. The Silence certainly weren't around when, say, Tom Baker was doing the rounds, for example.

 

[maharg]

Every time someone thinks too hard about time travel in Doctor Who, a TARDIS loses its lightbulb.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Every time someone thinks too hard about time travel in Doctor Who, a TARDIS loses its lightbulb.

Boy, I sure hope the lightbulb stuff is still leading somewhere.

 

[APZonerunner]

They never really went in-depth about the Time War- I always just figured it was tantamount to establishing a bubble universe where all the fighting of the Time War got placed. It's very confusing.

Meta-time is definitely a thing in the Who universe though- things are constantly changing as we go further along the Doctor's personal time-stream. The Silence certainly weren't around when, say, Tom Baker was doing the rounds, for example.

This. Time changes and stuff happens weird all over the place. There are issues everywhere. For instance, in Evolution of the Daleks, Caan Temporal Shifts - in Journey's End we learn that the trauma of watching his allies slay each other and the knowledge of being the last took him right into the Time War. He saved Davros, and that led to the Earth getting stolen - that ended up being in 2008 in Who-universe time.

All that fits, but... in Last of the Time Lords, a year passes. Everything is reset at the end, but in the Martha/Master universe of the 'lost year' the Daleks never take the earth or invade. (Incidentally, how cool would that have been in a sense? Not enough time in an episode for that, mind.) Was this because of the changes The Master caused? It's mentioned in passing that Earth has been quarantined as a dying planet by other species, but that wouldn't bother the Daleks, would it? It's hard to tell, really. Wibbly wobbly and all that.

The Silence probably weren't around during the Baker era (but of course Moffat could argue they were thanks to the memory wipe ability) - I mean, you can argue they "Popped" into existence at a point, retroactively added into history thanks to The Doctor's exploits.

There's probably certain points where when he changes things you can call them turning points, too. I always think The Waters of Mars could be regarded as a point like that, as he so rarely changes "big" things like that. How much else changed from the 'established' time line when he saved those people?

Probably best not to think about it, really. Mental timeline. It's for this reason I think the time travel paradox stuff is best left enclosed in single stories rather than sprawling out all over the show. In this I think River was a bad idea. It's too much for the kids and for a lot of the casual viewers and just sends the fan base cross-eyed as they try to work it out.

 

[Htown]

Boy, I sure hope the lightbulb stuff is still leading somewhere.

has to be

it's been in every episode

 

[King of the Potato People]

has to be

it's been in every episode

The return of the Vashta Nerada? River's story comes full circle.

 

[User 100115]

The return of the Vashta Nerada? River's story comes full circle.

Sorta what I was thinking as well.

 

[King of the Potato People]

Sorta what I was thinking as well.

It's pretty ironic that the Doctor used all the references on him from the books to send them off.

 

[The Technomancer]

The return of the Vashta Nerada? River's story comes full circle.

I would like that a lot. Well...except that I stil don't feel like River and the Doctor's relationship has ever grown to be what it was hyped up to be.

 

[FillerB]

This. Time changes and stuff happens weird all over the place. There are issues everywhere.

I don't recall all that much from the Classic Series so correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the Time Lords (ruling class of the Gallifreyans) exactly what it says on the tin? Protectors of the time-space continuum. So with the only one of them being around being a mad man and dozens of other species mucking about it's not really a wonder that time became all wibbly-wobbly.

And I would like to see the return of the Vashta Nerada. I wonder what the Doctor would do to counter them now he doesn't have his reputation to fall back on.

 

[Exterminieren]

Oh my God, I can't handle this.

;_;

 

[FillerB]

Oh my God, I can't handle this.

;_;

;_;

 

[maharg]

Really? That just makes him seem psychotic to me.

 

[acheron_xl]

I would like that a lot. Well...except that I stil don't feel like River and the Doctor's relationship has ever grown to be what it was hyped up to be.

Not to the viewers, but who knows what the characters are getting up to in Moffat's brain when the camera's not filming. I mean, Amy and Rory spent 10 years adventuring, most of it seemingly offscreen, so anything is possible.

 

[mclem]

The whole "delete from the universe's databases" thing only works if we allow for a "meta-time" that does flow linearly even if regular time is jump-aroundable. Otherwise the whole "erase all traces of me" thing would cause massive problems for pretty much every incarnation of the Doctor.

It just about holds together if you assume that time shapes itself about him so what's was necessarily true in the past can be changed as long as it doesn't affect *his* future, which it generally doesn't. The problem here is that it affects *River's* future, so... wibbly wobbly, timey wimey.

Of course, MST3k mantra applies here!


(One crazy theory: "Running away from" "Doctor Who?" makes me wonder if he's going to need to make people aware of him again in order to prevent a time paradox in River's future)

 

[Htown]

Oh my God, I can't handle this.

;_;

The fuck?

Brian's Log Day 4326: Something strange seems to be happening in my garden.

 

[Tizoc]

Oh great now I gotta wait til X-Mas for a new ep.?!?

 

[The Real Abed]

A thought occurs. Doesn't Amy still have that trans-dimensional-time-space-cellphone? Would she be able to keep that around in 1930-ish and use it herself (Discretely) to keep in touch with their parents just to let them know they're okay?

Or did she leave it on the TARDIS?

Or does it require the TARDIS to function? (Can't see why since it's something he does with his screwdriver.)

Or did they never get a replacement AC adapter after Rory left his behind?

Obviously it doesn't require satellites.

Then again, didn't she have it with her in The Girl Who Waited, and I guess Rory didn't have a matching phone that she could have called them with and fixed the whole problem easier. (Though how would a cell phone work in a dimension where time is moving more rapidly in parallel to another anyway?)

 

[King of the Potato People]

Oh great now I gotta wait til X-Mas for a new ep.?!?

I hope it's better than the Last Christmas special. I have a soft spot for ACC though.

 

[gabbo]

A thought occurs. Doesn't Amy still have that trans-dimensional-time-space-cellphone? Would she be able to keep that around in 1930-ish and use it herself (Discretely) to keep in touch with their parents just to let them know they're okay?

Or did she leave it on the TARDIS?

Or does it require the TARDIS to function? (Can't see why since it's something he does with his screwdriver.)

Or did they never get a replacement AC adapter after Rory left his behind?

Obviously it doesn't require satellites.

Then again, didn't she have it with her in The Girl Who Waited, and I guess Rory didn't have a matching phone that she could have called them with and fixed the whole problem easier. (Though how would a cell phone work in a dimension where time is moving more rapidly in parallel to another anyway?)

It never is stated, but one could assume if they had it, they would use it.

 

[mrklaw]

Boy, I sure hope the lightbulb stuff is still leading somewhere.

At least it's more subtle than crash zooms into cracks every damn episode

 

[Quick]

Oh great now I gotta wait til X-Mas for a new ep.?!?

I have no hockey to watch (stupid lockout) and no Doctor Who until Christmas.

Feels sad man.

 

[infiniteloop]

Boy, I sure hope the lightbulb stuff is still leading somewhere.

Same place as the mirror stuff last year.