Does anyone else not have sympathy for the X-Men?

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Justice_dp said:
Sorry, but this is highly debateable as their are tons of problems with the "Children's crusade" story that make it's status as "truth" questionable, especially since the current Uncanny Avengers and X-Men writers put her innocence and sanity to question. Heinberg is the only writer that tried to absolve her, the rest of the writers is more or less trying to show a long and hard road to redemption. One that in-universe the character does not even want.

And in-universe she is protected because she was an Avenger and the Avengers feel liek the own up to her. But at the same time they hunt down and blame Cyclops, who was possesed by a galactic entity because of an Avengers fuck-up. Which is causing friction in the MU too.
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part of the problem is that wanda's powers and the source of them have been retconned so many times no one can keep it straight.

Her issues were originally blamed on "chaos magic", then house of M established that there was "no such thing" and wanda was just crazy and having a psychotic episode. marvel went back on this AGAIN saying there IS chaos magic, wanda is some kind of nexus, and Dr. Strange was lying about it to keep it in check.

so whether it's her fault or not depends on which writer you happen to believe.
 
Pandaman said:
human teenagers do not get atomic bombs when they hit puberty.
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How many mutant have omega power to destroy a city on one shot? a few of them. How many human in this world have the power with technology to destroy a city in one shot? every government with atomic bomb.
 
Village said:
Oh you don't know about that , let me tell you a story.

So what I believe was the 200th issue of the avengers, the avengers tried to do something special. They couldn't come up with anything special so they had Miss Marvel get pregnant, so later when she has the baby ( super fast by the way) dude comes out a full grown man. Apparently at one point he had taken her to some weird alternate dimension so he could impregnate her , against her will, so he could birth himself out of that dimension. To all this the avengers go " oh ok" Then her son rapist proceeds to take her off, because they have fallen in love or something, when in actuality he hypnotized her into thinking that. She gets away from him, and murders him I believe, and for a long ass time she is pissed off at the avengers for just going along with that bullshit while it went down.

Avengers are a pretty shitty friend group
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...when the hell
what issue was this? man i don't even
 
Justice_dp said:
Damn it now I will go offtopic but as a two decades long GL fan and reader I want to comment on this.

The thing is: GL was not popular at that point. They had tried everything to make GL popular and the writting was a mess at the point the started to think about ET. The writers had nearly ruined all of Hal's supporting cast (Alien Rape/Saphire Pregnancy of Carol), did not know what to do with Guy Gardner, Hal had very boring stories playing out and the only GL having some kind of good book was John Stewart.

As Gerad Jones - the writer that had to script the original ET - proposed a GL civil war that would destroy the corps and make Hal even stronger produced a very complicated and convulted storyline DC hit the full stop (the outline is online - search for it). They hired Ron Marz to do the announced storyline with the imperative to have a fully functional GL by the end that was more in tune with current societal trends of the 90ties.

Parallax itself was it great idea. A hero fallen from grace trying to regain his sanity and place among the heroes. In the three years after his fall from grace we would see Hal regain more and more of his sanity and then GL writer Marz even proposed a series for him, but DC needed a hero to sacrifce himself in the 1996 crossover Final Night. Which has one of the best GL moments ever as Jordan recites the oath of the GL to beat the light absorbing monster.

And the rest is a Geoff-con... ah retcon? And now Parallax is a not a troubled anti-hero or fallen hero but a yellow spacebug.
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Very interesting POV...
I guess the fucked up part is as always the executive meddling...

Village said:
There is a fatguy from boston named movie bob who explains this far better than I do , so if you want a bit more

Here ya go. He also goes over some of the green lanterns history.
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Arg I'll have to see this when I get back home!

It's all so very fascinating, I'm half of a mind in making a topic where people can share the interesting comic arcs they liked and better educate people who know jack about it like me.
 
This reminds me of an issue of Xmen I bought years ago after taking a break from comics. Basically there's a mutant kid that is killing everyone he comes in contact with because his powers make him give off letal doses of ionizing radiation. So basically Xavier has Wolverine go find the kid and kill him because it's bad PR for mutants.

Anyone read this one. So basically some mutants are too dangerous to be left alive by other mutants.
 
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I am certainly sympathetic, but I mean come on we need to register mutants; all super powered people. Sure lot's of good mutants could be hurt by this, but being able to respond to a mutant threat without the use of a vigilante group of mutants should be a goal of our government. Without knowing what is out there how can we possibly be able to respond.

Good mutants should realize this and voluntarily register.
 
Village said:
Thank you, however I would like to make occasional topics on weird comic stuff, that seems worthy to talk about to the general public.

But that forum will be a nice place to see weird comic stuff though.
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You absolutely can (and should), this one is more about the parts that made COMICS Gaf read comics though.
 
happypup said:
I am certainly sympathetic, but I mean come on we need to register mutants; all super powered people. Sure lot's of good mutants could be hurt by this, but being able to respond to a mutant threat without the use of a vigilante group of mutants should be a goal of our government. Without knowing what is out there how can we possibly be able to respond.

Good mutants should realize this and voluntarily register.
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What a novel Idea. Only the best outcome could come out of someone suggesting a law like that.

Marvel_Civil_War.jpg
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Compulsory registration all the way, baby. Civil War was a non-moral, non-dilemma for me, hence its utter boredom.
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Are you arguing for persecution, or are you arguing for registration? Because the latter can definitely be strongly argued in favor of.
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This. I've always kind of understood the "registration" thing, even when it was being portrayed as the height of villainy. But then, I'm also for registering people who own firearms, so *shrug*
 
Village said:
What a novel Idea. Only the best outcome could come out of someone suggesting a law like that.
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Okay, you can't say something is a bad idea and then point to a series of events in the comics as why its a bad idea. All that proves is that the writers also thought it was a bad idea.
 
Yeah registration at the very least is a no brainer, next would be creating a nationwide system based on Xavier Institute to help teach mutants to control their powers and put them to use if they so choose.

You can't blame people for being afraid of someone who can fry their brain or warp reality in the blink of an eye. Obviously hating mutants just cause is stupid, but I don't see anything wrong with taking a hard-line against people with seriously destructive powers, and who have no more mental or moral toughness than your average person.

Then again I really don't like the Marvel Universe because it's such colossal shit, so who really cares. Too many mutants with far too powerful abilities exist and there is no rhyme or reason to how the mutant gene operates. Ohh you look like a beast, hey you have wings like a bird, ohh and you can mind rape anyone on earth if you feel like it. Cool.
 
Rm88~ said:
I just think they shouldn't be able to marry, man. It's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Beast.
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At what point is a mutant an animal and no longer a human? Beast once fell in love with a mutant who looked like a cat, but it turns out she was a mutant cat who looked more human.
 
meltingparappa said:
If they have nothing to hide they should be compliant.

If they don't register then they are criminals and they don't deserve to be protected by the law.

Ready the sentinels!
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exactly,

Robert Kelly for president.

Supermanisdead said:
At what point is a mutant an animal and no longer a human? Beast once fell in love with a mutant who looked like a cat, but it turns out she was a mutant cat who looked more human.
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if they can breed with a human and produce offspring that can themselves produce offspring (either with mutants or humans) they are still human.
 
There's a distinction to be drawn between mutants and the X-Men. There are plenty of law-abiding mutants, with minimal powers, who should be left alone.

That stands in stark contrast to the X-Men, who are often mutant segregationists, train for future wars, and stockpile weapons of immense power. If we had a group like the X-Men in real life, we'd think of them the same way we think of David Koresh and his group of wackos in Waco.

Seriously, an old paralyzed rich guy, who just happens to have the ability to control your mind, is quasi-adopting children, training them in warfare, giving them code-names, and then taking them out to fight. That would be a serious problem. They wouldn't need the various team-member cosmic freakouts to get the government's attention.

I wouldn't support registration, but we already have laws on the books to prosecute vigilantes. I'd support prosecuting the X-Men (and the Avengers, when they aren't working for the government) under those laws. Comics are rife with civil rights violations, torture, and prisoner abuse.
 
Supermanisdead said:
Possessed by what?

She said the same damn thing just a few months ago in Uncanny Avengers. Her exactly phrase was "why should mutants exist?"

Face it, this bitch hates mutants and is a bigger threat to mutantdom than Bolivar Trask and William Stryker combined!
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The retcon in Children's Crusade was that she was possessed by the "Life Force". It's strange she gets a pass from the Avengers and Cyclops doesn't when she intentionally sought out the Life Force and it was the Avengers' fault Cyclops got possessed by the Phoenix.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
But I mean... humanity has a point. Mutants are fucking dangerous. I mean, there are mutants out there with the ability to like, waste a city if they sneeze wrong or have a bad day.
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These kind of mutants are bad writing, they shouldn't exist in the universe imo. There's one guy who could like destroy the world just by making a sound, any volume sound, dammit I forgot his name. That kind of mutant was a terrible idea.
 
Heavy said:
These kind of mutants are bad writing, they shouldn't exist in the universe imo. There's one guy who could like destroy the world just by making a sound, any volume sound, dammit I forgot his name. That kind of mutant was a terrible idea.
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Blackbolt isn't a mutant
 
X-Men have never been sympathetic as a whole to me, no para-military group is, especially ones that have dedicated kill squads, develop biological weapons of war, have no issue committing genocide, threaten friendly government allies, and so forth.

Mutants as a whole though, they can have plenty of sympathy. Imagine if before a child is even born and it tests positive to be a mutant, the fetus is aborted and then thrown at another mutant (see Avengers when Firestorm and Justice, two mutants were members). Imagine being a mutant whose only power is you have six fingers and you are constantly hurt at school, imagine you have what effectively makes you the modern day "Elephant Man" in looks and you are burned alive in your home because people call you devil spawn. Imagine concentration camps in the United States with forced labour until they die from being overworked or experimented upon. Imagine an entire nation where everyone born or could pass on DNA that results in a mutant birth is enslaved, stripped of identity save for a number, and can be killed just to feed the animals?

If you were born with the genetic mutation of your eyes being able to change colours and that's it, how would you feel if a giant robot crashed through your roof, grabbed you in it's metal hands, and flew off to dump you into a prison with no rights? Doesn't matter what the X-Men do or do not, you are less than human because of your DNA only, not powers or abilities, just DNA.

Not that aliens, monsters, paranormal creatures, or most anything else that looks "not human" are treated that much better in Marvel comics. Look like a white man with brownish hair, okay Kree, you can go by. Look like dog-man, be an aquatic creature, have a tail, while you could live in an underground ghetto or be held in a prison or experimented upon or even eaten by some rich humans. It's a very friendly place Earth, welcoming to all that don't look too different.

As for registration, sure, go for it. Deadly abilities require registration, monitoring, and control. I'm military though so of course I would be for that. What I didn't like about Marvel's registration act and it's version of the U.S. though was how it could arrest people without a trial, willing to imprison people just for rescuing someone from a fire, ignoring other nation's laws and citizens rights, oh and the fact it press-ganged children into military tactics and ordered them to kill people. That is, for the children that weren't killed in training exercises to be "registered".
 
Heavy said:
These kind of mutants are bad writing, they shouldn't exist in the universe imo. There's one guy who could like destroy the world just by making a sound, any volume sound, dammit I forgot his name. That kind of mutant was a terrible idea.
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His Name is Blackgar Boltagon. He isn't a mutant and that effect is really a side effect of his power. Dude can do so much much more.
 
What's actually Magneto's goal? Does he just want equal rights or does he actually want the mutants to rise to the top of the food chain?

Because while the former gets my sympathy the latter would make him nothing better than the people he's fighting.
 
Deprive said:
Blackbolt isn't a mutant
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Slayven said:
His Name is Blackgar Boltagon. He isn't a mutant and that effect is really a side effect of his power. Dude can do so much much more.
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Ohh ok, my mistake. I just Wiki'd him and it says:

Black Bolt's Terrigen-mutated physique surpasses the superhuman physique of typical Inhumans: his strength, stamina, durability and reflexes are all well above typical Inhuman or human levels.
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I'm guessing Terrigen-mutated is something different.


Unrelated but I feel the same way about some of the Eternals and like all of the Celestials. Being able to create universes with a snap of your finger and dumb shit like that is just too much and if you think about it too much in your mind it makes superheroes fighting on Earth feel insignificant and pointless.

*Disclaimer: I only know about them from Wikipedia and reading about their powers and so on. I'm sure the books are better.
 
you make a good point, OP, but by that logic humanity should fear and hate every superhero capable of doing such feats, when only the X-men get the shaft
 
Kinyou said:
What's actually Magneto's goal? Does he just want equal rights or does he actually want the mutants to rise to the top of the food chain?

Because while the former gets my sympathy the latter would make him nothing better than the people he's fighting.
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A by-product of "Never Again" of the Second World War's Holocaust, but took it as overwhelming force power to ensure no one could ever do that to him.

To make it simple, and what he has actually accomplished a few times, was to establish a Mutant Nation where mutants could be free and live their lives, while having enough force or leverage that no one would dare attack him (they did, he killed Soviet sailors or the X-Men stopped him). Various island nations, an asteroid, etc all for work. Still he was a threat with world destroying capabilities, so they sent in Solid Snake to... no wait, different story.

That was his goal, but he was always a bit too much and demanded to be seen as the greatest, which lead to him forming almost a religion around him at best, a terrorist at worst. Then years later Scott Summers does the whole "get all mutants together on an island Nation", but that failed horribly too because good intentions led to awful awful things where they were seen like Cuba in 1962 to the United States.

Charles Xavier was the one who wanted equal rights and acceptance, where his students didn't have to be outlaws, but could be like the Avengers. He actually came close, back when Marvel started to treat X-Men like it was it's own universe away from the other Marvel comics in the main universe, the mutant population was over half of all humans on Earth, so he spearheaded corporations and diplomatic offices and other good-will aspects, as well as using those trained to fight as police officers and peace keepers to make mutants just part of the average day. Worked well too, until people remembered "oh right, X-Men are supposed to suffer and be hated", so it went all to hell by the writers.

Heavy said:
Ohh ok, my mistake. I just Wiki'd him and it says:


I'm guessing Terrigen-mutated is something different.


Unrelated but I feel the same way about some of the Eternals and like all of the Celestials. Being able to create universes with a snap of your finger and dumb shit like that is just too much and if you think about it too much in your mind it makes superheroes fighting on Earth feel insignificant and pointless.

*Disclaimer: I only know about them from Wikipedia and reading about their powers and so on. I'm sure the books are better.
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The Inhumans are basically humans that are mutated into different beings, into different forms and talents. Their design is basically a city in which where when everyone is unique, being unique actually becomes special and everyone has a dedicated job they are best suited for. They lived away from the rest of the world though, as every time they tried they were hated and feared as well for being "monsters".

None of the Eternals "snap their finger and make a universe" and the Celestials are basically gods, beings of the universe so far above us we barely can even make sense of them (if we lived in Marvel Earth). The Eternals don't even really care about normal day to day stuff of Mutants or Registration acts or human governments, they are immortals and have to keep Earth just existing for some metaphysic judgement and other high value stuff they just laugh if anyone says "you have to follow the law". Eternals are a race of people that make Superman look tame in power set and abilities and that's including the campy 1970s version of Superman.

Humans fighting on Earth is actually rather insignificant and pointless, that's been used as numerous stories. Just as us posting on this board and being in a conversation about something, or getting into an argument and being banned over a bad joke, is rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things, but it matters to us because it's our lives. Spider-Man having trouble with a girlfriend? Can be a great story and it matters to Spider-Man, even if somewhere else the fate of the universe is at stake over a galactic war he has no part in.
 
I wonder how the X-men/mutants are gonna feel when more inhumans pop up.
X-men vs Inhumans for marvels comic event next year.
Black Bolt would merk Cyclops.
 
Heavy said:
Ohh ok, my mistake. I just Wiki'd him and it says:


I'm guessing Terrigen-mutated is something different.


Unrelated but I feel the same way about some of the Eternals and like all of the Celestials. Being able to create universes with a snap of your finger and dumb shit like that is just too much and if you think about it too much in your mind it makes superheroes fighting on Earth feel insignificant and pointless.

*Disclaimer: I only know about them from Wikipedia and reading about their powers and so on. I'm sure the books are better.
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Well Eternals have to train at their powers. And universe creating mutants are few and far between.

Hehateme said:
I wonder how the X-men/mutants are gonna feel when more inhumans pop up.
X-men vs Inhumans for marvels comic event next year.
Black Bolt would merk Cyclops.
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The average inhuman sucks compared to the average mutant. Cyke would welcome them.
 
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