Support NeoGAF

[Coffee Dog]

Guess that explains the lack of native 1080p. God bless Retro for sticking to those old school roots.

So you're just interested in trolling instead of an actual conversation? Because you completely ignored my point and started going off about something that isn't even relevant to the discussion.

Edit: Also lol @ yet another nintendo game thread getting derailed into sales discussions, resolution discussions, and all manners of other console warring

 

[Toxi]

If we're talking about graphics... Well, you know what you're getting with the Wii U.

I'm more glad that the game is 60 frames per second. In a game with levels like that, you REALLY don't want frame drops.

ya know, the Edge review is rather good, score be damned

I don't think it was particularly good, and as I said before, what was he meaning with the paragraph at the end? Is he talking about the animations? The controller? The way controls connect to actions?

It seems like something he really could have gone more in-depth on, because that was the one part of the review where I was worried that there was something I'm missing about the controls.

 

[Mlatador]

Here are some more reviews (German). I've translated the verdics.


Eurogamer (Germany) - 9/10

It's an incredibly satisfying, very well playable, sly adventure of pure platforming joy. It's as if "Rare" was still around. [original says "Jump'n Run", but that's the german term for "platformer" ^^]

Ingame.de (German) - 9.0

Incredible visuals, great puzzles, wicked enemies and an almost genius level-design make you almost forget the intense difficulty.

PC Games (German) - 89%

When Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze was first announced, I was dissapointed. I was expecting a new Metroid title from Retro but then it turned out to be "just" a sequel to Donkey Kong Country Returns.
This innitial dissapointed, however, dissapeared as soon as I've layed hands on the game. It's increadibly fun and in times of sprawling tutorials everywhere, this game dares to not "handhold" the players. Therefore, beating the sometimes very difficult levels feels all the more satisfiying. If Retro continues producing such amazing platformers, then I wouldn't even mind waiting a little longer for the next Metroid adventure.

 

[The_Lump]

Guess that explains the lack of native 1080p. God bless Retro for sticking to those old school roots.

Aaaand seems like you just crossed the line into trolling.

Honestly, what has that got to do with anything you guys were discussing?

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

Avoiding video reviews! Platformers are all about the surprise and seeing the breathtaking levels for the first time!

IGN says this is about 13hrs long. How long was the first one?

Don't listen to hour amounts from reviewers. What we do know is that DKCR had 72 levels but this one has

Spoiler

63. But most people who have played say the average level is a bit longer than the ones in DKCR, so they are probably about even in terms of content.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

After watching the GameSpot video review, I had to call my buddy and show him the spot where the player tried to pass the clockwise Ferris wheel platforms by staying on the bottom platform and trying to jump counterclockwise. He couldn't stop laughing for a good minute or two.

I mean seriously, my five year old daughter can and has figured out those sections on her own in half the time.

 

[nluckett]

Im looking through Gamespots reviews and they actually seem to be using the full 10 point scale. And I liked their end of year awards and reviews. I watched the DKCR2 review and it does seem like he is being harsh on the game, but overall they seem like they have a decent review system in place.

 

[Spieler Eins]

No surprises. Nintendo might as well have kept making Wii games, if all they do on WiiU is by the numbers platformer sequels and low effort minigame collections instead of proving a new console's worth.
This would have complemented Skyward Sword and Xenoblade quite well at the end of last gen (and I would have looked forward to it much more, now I'm only in for Wise)...

 

[jblank83]

"something" is not a very good criticism of a game..

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

It's all a bit stop and start. Platforms and enemies are laid out in odd ways, making it difficult to establish the sort of smooth, free-flowing rhythm that makes the best 2D platformers such a blast. For instance, you might be leaping across a level, picking up a good rhythm between jumps, before being stopped by a set of collapsing stone walls. In a good platformer like Tropical Freeze's predecessor, those walls would be timed to fall in rhythm with previous jumps and obstacles, letting you zip past them quickly,

What a terrible review.
Because he couldn't speed run through the game on his first playthrough, he considered it inferior game design.
Having depth, re-playability & actual design is now getting marked down?

I hate these stupid, vapid, empty, iOS-like design of press right non-stop & react quickly.

 

[rokero]

I stopped giving clicks to gamespot a long time ago it seems they always want that controversial review that gets them clicks they know Nintendo fans are very passionate so its easy pickings for them

 

[Toxi]

One issue I saw few reviews bring up and what looks like it could be one of the biggest problems with the game so far for me: The obstacles aren't easy to decipher from non-obstacles. There are times where a solid-looking object comes on the screen and I accidentally assume it's an obstacle instead of a background object. I can see that resulting in a few "cheap" deaths. It doesn't help that the background objects often are very important; in the fruit factory levels, the rotating fruit platforms have the fruit rotate before the platform does as a warning, and the bits of fruit from razor pits signal when a fruit platform will fly up. So not only do you need to understand that those aren't physical objects that interact with you, but you still need to observe them closely if you want to not struggle with the level.

Does anyone with the games have these problems, or am I just chicken little-ing?

Edit: Also lol @ yet another nintendo game thread getting derailed into sales discussions, resolution discussions, and all manners of other console warring

What do you expect, people to actually discuss the game and review content?

No surprises. Nintendo might as well have kept making Wii games, if all they do on WiiU is by the numbers platformer sequels and low effort minigame collections instead of proving a new console's worth.
This would have complemented Skyward Sword and Xenoblade quite well at the end of last gen (and I would have looked forward to it much more, now I'm only in for Wise)...

If this game is possible on the Wii, it would have to have load times out the ass; there's a ton of unique level geometry and dynamic obstacles.

 

[Gummb]

This is basically a repeat of Freezy KO's post above, but...

People complaining about the fact that MK8 doesn't use the screen well aren't complaining because of a novelty horn, they're complaining that they paid $100 extra for hardware (or got $100 less in base hardware value or capacity as a result, either way you look at it) so that there could be a novelty horn. The same reason why Microsoft is being excoriated over and over and over again for charging $100 extra for their console for stuff that amounts to "that's a neat little novelty".

Of course there's Nintendoland and Game and Wario and off-tv play and yes, menu screens and maps can be handy, but if you want to have an argument about whether or not the Gamepad has in aggregate been a good value--I'm guessing you feel that the answer is yes here--then you're already admitting the problem was never the horn to begin with, but rather the perceived value of the Gamepad, so why pretend it was about the horn to begin with?

The horn is symbolic of the fact that not only do non-Nintendo companies not seem to get anything out of the Gamepad, most of Nintendo's internal teams don't either. The horn is symbolic of the fact that the Wii U has been rejected by the market at large by a number of reasons that ultimately come down to people not seeing the value of the product, and Nintendo's response is to say "The Gamepad is great. We're going to release software that really leverages the Gamepad" and then to proceed to release a release that has the Gamepad as a black screen, a release that uses it as basically a secondary info screen to offload HUD stuff onto, and their only long-term horizon that uses the Gamepad well is the prospect of NFC, which other companies have done without the Gamepad for several years now. That's the issue.

No one actually has a problem with there being a function to make a funny noise. Little goofy things are fine. No one blames the team for not using the Gamepad better, no one is saying "Mario Kart really should use the Gamepad for XYZ" because no one has really any great ideas for using the Gamepad, which is the actual issue at hand.

I agree with your post, however, the point at hand is that these things are affecting reviews, so people are blaming the team for not using the Gamepad better.

This conversation has morphed. This is a review thread, not a conversation about the Wii U's capabilities as a console. Tropical Freeze (and eventually MK8's) utilization of the Gamepad is creating a negative point in reviews, thus (apparently) lowering its score. Some people, including myself, think that this is wrong because we are not reviewing the console and its successes/failures. We are reviewing a game that has the choice to use whatever features it feels necessary.

 

[Vanille]

So you're just interested in trolling instead of an actual conversation? Because you completely ignored my point and started going off about something that isn't even relevant to the discussion.

I think it's pretty relevant, man. The lack of full HD was obviously a creative decision to invoke that SNES nostalgia.

If you guys are gonna perform some crazy mental gymnastics, I want in on the fun.

 

[Zarovitch]

No surprises. Nintendo might as well have kept making Wii games, if all they do on WiiU is by the numbers platformer sequels and low effort minigame collections instead of proving a new console's worth.
This would have complemented Skyward Sword and Xenoblade quite well at the end of last gen (and I would have looked forward to it much more, now I'm only in for Wise)...

I'm not surprise too that the score are that high. I'm really please

 

[Sendou]

I think it's pretty relevant, man. The lack of full HD was obviously a creative decision to invoke that SNES nostalgia.

If you guys are gonna perform some crazy mental gymnastics, I want in on the fun.

Do you think you are clever or something?

 

[Dr.Hadji]

They already said they were experimenting with the Gamepad, even mentioned a Double Dash mode that is possible.

Jumping the gun is more than jumping the gun.

Its Freezie, its what he does. He goes so very far with so little information.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Gamespot's review really baffles me because the reviewer seems to criticize it for being a hardcore traditional platformer saying how it doesn't do anything innovative or new like Rayman Legends or SMB3D World.

As much as I love and adore Rayman Legends and SMB3D World, we need more hardcore unadulterated platformers like Tropical Freeze. I don't think it should be scored lower for doing that well.

Rayman Legends, although I love it dearly as one of my favorite games, relies a lot on gimmicks. Super Mario 3D World is a different game! If Tropical Freeze was Donkey Kong 64-2, than I could understand the comparison. But as it stands in the review, the comparison is like comparing Gradius V to Ace Combat!

Also saying the level design and variety is dull and bland is also mind boggling. Just seeing the videos alone amazed me of how beautiful the levels look.

Anyway, it's just one review and the reviewer is entitled to his opinion, but reading through it, it felt more like "it doesn't do better than these games and I thought it was boring and didn't like it, so it's a bad game!"

 

[Yonafunu]

No surprises. Nintendo might as well have kept making Wii games, if all they do on WiiU is by the numbers platformer sequels and low effort minigame collections instead of proving a new console's worth.
This would have complemented Skyward Sword and Xenoblade quite well at the end of last gen (and I would have looked forward to it much more, now I'm only in for Wise)...

Huh? The scores overall are pretty freakin good. What are you talking about?

 

[Gummb]

No surprises. Nintendo might as well have kept making Wii games, if all they do on WiiU is by the numbers platformer sequels and low effort minigame collections instead of proving a new console's worth.
This would have complemented Skyward Sword and Xenoblade quite well at the end of last gen (and I would have looked forward to it much more, now I'm only in for Wise)...

I, for one, am happy that we're getting this in HD with the Gamepad and optional waggle roll so...... no, I can't agree with you.

Huh? The scores overall are pretty freakin good. What are you talking about?

I think he's trying to troll the Wii U while also somehow diminishing the quality of the title using some personal opinion. I don't think he's actually looking at the review scores.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Huh? The scores overall are pretty freakin good. What are you talking about?

Yeah, I see a lot of 9s and some 10s.

 

[Gsnap]

What a terrible review.
Because he couldn't speed run through the game on his first playthrough, he considered it inferior game design.
Having depth, re-playability & actual design is now getting marked down?

I hate these stupid, vapid, empty, iOS-like design of press right non-stop & react quickly.

Woooooow. So the game has a high skill ceiling and isn't so streamlined that he can blow through the level first try?

What hooooorrible design...

Spoiler

Ridiculous.

 

[Spieler Eins]

Huh? The scores overall are pretty freakin good. What are you talking about?

The actual review content of people that finally acknowledge problems that go beyond whether this is still a fun enough 8/10 map pack.

(Not to mention that a current 80% average on rankings is a huge drop and not freaking good)

 

[Orniletter]

No surprises. Nintendo might as well have kept making Wii games, if all they do on WiiU is by the numbers platformer sequels and low effort minigame collections instead of proving a new console's worth.
This would have complemented Skyward Sword and Xenoblade quite well at the end of last gen (and I would have looked forward to it much more, now I'm only in for Wise)...

...come on dude....

 

[megabytecr]

Just honk the fucking horn and smile, goddamn it!

OT title or Review thread title gets my vote too.

 

[il Diavolo]

The actual review content of people that finally acknowledge problems that go beyond whether this is still a fun enough 8/10 map pack.

(Not to mention that a current 80% average on rankings is a huge drop and not freaking good)

An 80 is not good? Huh.

 

[Super Stardust]

Gamespot's review really baffles me because the reviewer seems to criticize it for being a hardcore traditional platformer saying how it doesn't do anything innovative or new like Rayman Legends or SMB3D World.

As much as I love and adore Rayman Legends and SMB3D World, we need more hardcore unadulterated platformers like Tropical Freeze. I don't think it should be scored lower for doing that well.

Rayman Legends, although I love it dearly as one of my favorite games, relies a lot on gimmicks. Super Mario 3D World is a different game! If Tropical Freeze was Donkey Kong 64-2, than I could understand the comparison. But as it stands in the review, the comparison is like comparing Gradius V to Ace Combat!

Also saying the level design and variety is dull and bland is also mind boggling. Just seeing the videos alone amazed me of how beautiful the levels look.

Anyway, it's just one review and the reviewer is entitled to his opinion, but reading through it, it felt more like "it doesn't do better than these games and I thought it was boring and didn't like it, so it's a bad game!"

Never forget gamespots skyward sword review, it's like they intentionally score the lowest so they can get clicks.

 

[BlackJace]

Why do people honestly respond to Spieler Eins nowadays...

 

[Coolwhip]

DKC:TF's blank screen is representative of Retro's lack of commitment to trying to create a game that leverages the Wii U's unique capabilities.

Mario Kart 8's horn is representative of EAD's lack of commitment to trying to create a game that leverages the Wii U's unique capabilities.

DKC:TF and Mario Kart 8's lack of commitment to trying to create a game that leverages the Wii U's unique capabilities DOES NOT lead to the logical conclusion that these games are worse off and thus deserving of lower scores. Their lack of "meaningful" Wii U features does not make them worse games. That is a logical leap.

What would make them worse is if they were lower-quality titles.

Yeah. All it proves is that Wii U as a concept is a failure. They are great games, just on a bad platform. Is that reason to criticize the game itself though? I don't think so.

Why do people honestly respond to Spieler Eins nowadays...

Why is he allowed to derail so many threads and flamebait all the time is a better question.

 

[Ooccoo]

I knew Gamespot sucked, but this takes the cake.

 

[Natureboy99]

I'll probably get it when it hits $40 used, like I do with all WiiU games. WiiU games just don't compare to next gen stuff, especially the classic Nintendo platformers.

 

[NotLiquid]

The actual review content of people that finally acknowledge problems that go beyond whether this is still a fun enough 8/10 map pack.

(Not to mention that a current 80% average on rankings is a huge drop and not freaking good)

Gamerankings bases it on 17 reviews.

Metacritic has over 30 reviews accounted for.

On Metacritic it's only a 5 point discrepancy between it and it's predecessor.

"Huge drop". "Not freaking good".

 

[Gummb]

The actual review content of people that finally acknowledge problems that go beyond whether this is still a fun enough 8/10 map pack.

(Not to mention that a current 80% average on rankings is a huge drop and not freaking good)

Is there any point to responding to you?

If I list the advantages to this being on the Wii U (HD, Gamepad buttons, More ways to play, better graphics, etc.), you will dismiss them. If I state that an 82% metecritic is, actually good, you will refute it. You can have your opinion, but please stop using ridiculous arguments.

 

[Gsnap]

I'll probably get it when it hits $40 used, like I do with all WiiU games. WiiU games just don't compare to next gen stuff, especially the classic Nintendo platformers.

It's only $50 anyway....

 

[Vire]

I think people are just getting tired of perfunctory, by the numbers Nintendo sequels and it's finally showing in the review scores.

I just can't help but feel this game is a tremendous waste of talent.

 

[Freezie KO]

Nintendo has already done the dual-screen thing. They've been doing it for almost a decade. The "it uses a second touch screen" paradigm has already been expressed in virtually all of their franchises. For Mario Kart, MK8 is the third dual-screen game in the series. This is not the title where they say "behold, the astonishing benefits of this second screen!" Its use in the franchise is well established.

Nintendo has hard-sold the GamePad, and continues to do so, primarily as an off-screen play enabler. Every time Iwata or Miyamoto bring it up, they are happy to do so almost exclusively in the context of off-screen play. Realistically, this is what they want to convince people has value.

Now whether they've done that or not, or whether certain people will care no matter how hard Nintendo tries, is another topic entirely. Mario Kart 8 is just another dual-screen Mario Kart, but with a greater emphasis on the ability to use the GamePad like you could use the Wii Wheel, so the horn is a nice perk for that control scheme. There may be some nice GamePad-screen stuff in other parts of the software, who knows. But this is not the title where Nintendo leverages the GamePad in a bid to solidify their "relevance in the console space." This is the third in a string of dual-screen Mario Karts and is a very known quantity.

Sometimes a horn really is just a horn.

I disagree that the value of the GamePad is "another topic entirely." I believe that's precisely why many people, myself included, criticize the horn or the black screen in DKC.

I'm not looking for Nintendo to shoehorn in mechanics like "draw a circle to roll" in Donkey Kong. Nor am I expecting a grand idea for Mario Kart.

As you say, this is their third dual screen Mario Kart. But that's also part of the problem. If the GamePad cannot and will not offer compelling additions to Nintendo's existing stable, and Nintendo is unable or reticent to offer new ideas (beyond minigames) for the Pad, then why does it exist?

It's clear at this point that Off TV is not a worthwhile feature to most gamers nor does the Pad add anything to gameplay. So while an individual game like Mario Kart or DKC shouldn't be docked points for not using an optional feature of the hardware, each of these instances add up to make a compelling case against the GamePad's useless and arbitrary inclusion to the Wii U. And for that, it's worth discussion.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

I think people are just getting tired of perfunctory, by the numbers Nintendo sequels and it's finally showing in the review scores.

I just can't help but feel this game is a tremendous waste of talent.

I disagree. It's more like a showcase of how talented Retro is!

 

[DjRoomba]

Never forget gamespots skyward sword review, it's like they intentionally score the lowest so they can get clicks.

Most of GAF seems to agree with Skyward's low scoring for some reason. No idea how that great game became more hated than the actually terrible Twilight Princess.

 

[Gsnap]

It's clear at this point that Off TV is not a worthwhile feature to most gamers nor does the Pad add anything to gameplay. So while an individual game like Mario Kart or DKC shouldn't be docked points for not using an optional feature of the hardware, each of these instances add up to make a compelling case against the GamePad's useless and arbitrary inclusion to the Wii U. And for that, it's worth discussion.

It is. But in a separate article or editorial. Not in someone's review of the game in question.

 

[mf luder]

I disagree that the value of the GamePad is "another topic entirely." I believe that's precisely why many people, myself included, criticize the horn or the black screen in DKC.

I'm not looking for Nintendo to shoehorn in mechanics like "draw a circle to roll" in Donkey Kong. Nor am I expecting a grand idea for Mario Kart.

As you say, this is their third dual screen Mario Kart. But that's also part of the problem. If the GamePad cannot and will not offer compelling additions to Nintendo's existing stable, and Nintendo is unable or reticent to offer new ideas (beyond minigames) for the Pad, then why does it exist?

It's clear at this point that Off TV is not a worthwhile feature to most gamers nor does the Pad add anything to gameplay. So while an individual game like Mario Kart or DKC shouldn't be docked points for not using an optional feature of the hardware, each of these instances add up to make a compelling case against the GamePad's useless and arbitrary inclusion to the Wii U. And for that, it's worth discussion.

I wouldn't say that mate.

 

[Yoshi]

What a terrible review.
Because he couldn't speed run through the game on his first playthrough, he considered it inferior game design.
Having depth, re-playability & actual design is now getting marked down?

I hate these stupid, vapid, empty, iOS-like design of press right non-stop & react quickly.

Funny thing is: DKC5's levels are still optimised for a perfect flow if you try a speed run. He just failed at it.

 

[Ooccoo]

I think people are just getting tired of perfunctory, by the numbers Nintendo sequels and it's finally showing in the review scores.

I just can't help but feel this game is a tremendous waste of talent.

Name me one other studio that would have done a better job. Or I guess you're mad they didn't make another Prime?

Spoiler

I want one too

 

[Sendou]

I think people are just getting tired of perfunctory, by the numbers Nintendo sequels and it's finally showing in the review scores.

I just can't help but feel this game is a tremendous waste of talent.

In general I think this is where gaming is but shouldn't everyone be critized about it evenhandedly? Sony, Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, Activision-Blizzard. All the big players are sinners. I would like to see some cohesion with these reviews.

 

[Lathentar]

I'll probably get it when it hits $40 used, like I do with all WiiU games. WiiU games just don't compare to next gen stuff, especially the classic Nintendo platformers.

Even though its a $50 game?

 

[Toxi]

I just can't help but feel this game is a tremendous waste of talent.

Metroid Prime is my favorite game, and I still this sort of sentiment can go fuck itself. If Retro just hit the reset button after every new game, we would have never gotten the insane creativity of Metroid Prime 2's bosses, puzzles, and level design.

I think there's a problem when the industry is so focused on new things that it forgets to focus on fundamentals.

 

[noobasuar]

I think people are just getting tired of perfunctory, by the numbers Nintendo sequels and it's finally showing in the review scores.

I just can't help but feel this game is a tremendous waste of talent.

Yeah I'm more than happy to get a game that focuses on making the best level's possible over what the rest of the industry is doing, which is focusing on graphics, set pieces, and whatever other garbage they feel like focusing on.

Basically I'm happy to see good gameplay design over creating the most boring by the numbers shit that the rest of the industry is happy to pump out everyday.

So no Retro isn't wasting their talent.

 

[Majmun]

Even though its a $50 game?

$10 man. $10!

 

[VanWinkle]

And this is a hyperbolic statement how? If the game is fun who gives one flying fuck about what resolution it's running at? Unless it actually affects your performance in the game (I was finally able to snipe in CoD when I went from 480i to 1080i), it's just pointless dickswording.

I don't care ONLY about if a game is fun. I care about if a game is fun, it's important to me that the game is fun, but I don't care only about that. Resolution is not just a bullet point. It can massively increase the image quality on your screen. I want my games to look crisp and clean on my 1080p TV. Yes, gameplay is more important than resolution, but this delusional black or white world you live in isn't realistic. I can care about multiple aspects of a game, and not because I want to brag about a high resolution or something.

 

[chadboban]

I think people are just getting tired of perfunctory, by the numbers Nintendo sequels and it's finally showing in the review scores.

I just can't help but feel this game is a tremendous waste of talent.

What aspect of the game makes you feel that?

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

No surprises.

Indeed