Which is weird, as MS' own software deals with it fine.
Looking around, Chocolate Doom's GUS emulation doesn't seem to work differently than ZDoom's Timidity based patches, which I've gotten successfully working in Zandronum.
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DOOM Franchise Community Thread: That's one doomed space marine!
- Thread starter Raptomex
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Which is weird, as MS' own software deals with it fine.
Looking around, Chocolate Doom's GUS emulation doesn't seem to work differently than ZDoom's Timidity based patches, which I've gotten successfully working in Zandronum.
yeah i've tried using both eawpats and dgguspat sets with both native midi and the built in GUS emulation and get nothing. using native midi and pointing to /eawpats/timidity.cfg and GUS pointing to /dgguspat/
i feel like i'm missing a step somewhere
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Windows Media Player plays them just fine. ¯\_(ツ_/¯
Guess Apple doesn't see MIDI as worth supporting anymore. At least they had the foresight to keep QuickTime 7 around. Though this is the first time I've come upon a MIDI file in years. I'm just surprised VLC, the master of playing everything including broken video files, can't play a format that's been around since the '80s. Interestingly enough they play in Safari (And other browsers) when embedded on Wikipedia. (In a HTML5-based player.) Oh well, as Ref said above, ¯\_(ツ
_/Someone should try and put those into a WAD file and see how it sounds in-game.
Try installing Timidity++, and using that to process the game's audio instead of the built in Timidity. It requires a bit more editing of the config files, but it's less failure-prone in my experience.
yeah, i actually just did that and figured it all out. got it working in both chocolate and prboom+. thanks
Oh wow, that's awesome! Maybe one day I'll be able to experience that myself. Is it easy to use with modern source ports?
with a usb-midi adapter it's just like using any old software synth. which is to say, in win7 and below, very easy, and in win 8 and above, easy to impossible.
some ports for other games i've tried like eduke32 or dxx-rebirth are a no-go since they just use the built in SDL mixer and assume you're using ogg packs or something with no variables to change it. pretty frustrating.
So I got GZDoomBuilder a few days ago and finally started learning how to make my own maps. Not counting a simple rectangle room I made, this would be my very first Doom map. I'm just trying to make something E1M1-esque.
Just doing basic layout stuff is pretty easy. But doing stuff like activatable doors, lifts, buttons etc. still confounds me. Half the time the doors I make will not work right and I don't really know why. I can make a lift that lowers itself when the player steps on it, but I can't make it react to being pushed or the player getting next to it. I looked at one of the lifts in E1M2 for reference, and I see that a linedef is somehow connected to a lift so that it reacts once the player passes the linedef, but I have no clue just what that function is and where I can find it in the editor...
Just doing basic layout stuff is pretty easy. But doing stuff like activatable doors, lifts, buttons etc. still confounds me. Half the time the doors I make will not work right and I don't really know why. I can make a lift that lowers itself when the player steps on it, but I can't make it react to being pushed or the player getting next to it. I looked at one of the lifts in E1M2 for reference, and I see that a linedef is somehow connected to a lift so that it reacts once the player passes the linedef, but I have no clue just what that function is and where I can find it in the editor...
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Looks pretty good. I never had problems with doors or switches wen I used to edit DOOM. But when I tried to do anything in Hexen, I felt out of my element. Mainly the more advanced scripting stuff. Especially sliding or swinging sectors like doors. There was a reason you only saw swinging or sliding sectors occasionally in Hexen. That stuff was super difficult to create. Duke Nukem tried to make it easier but it was still pretty hard and if you didn't get it quite right, it didn't work at all.
I don't remember any of the switch type names. All I know is you attach the linedef with the switch ID number to the sector with the same matching ID. Switches have a number and you give each switch/sector a unique ID and that switch activates all the sectors with that ID.
I should try my hands at level editing again. I wish there was a Mac version of ZDoom Editor.
I don't remember any of the switch type names. All I know is you attach the linedef with the switch ID number to the sector with the same matching ID. Switches have a number and you give each switch/sector a unique ID and that switch activates all the sectors with that ID.
I should try my hands at level editing again. I wish there was a Mac version of ZDoom Editor.
Shadow Hog
Member
You're aware of how Tags work, right? Every sector has a Tag - it defaults to 0, but you can specify a higher number if you'd like. Once you do, you can then assign that Tag to any Linedef Specials you want, and that Special will be performed on all sectors using that Tag.
So, for instance, you could have a locked door sector with a Tag of 1, and then assign a nearby linedef with a switch texture the Special of 103 (S1 Door Open Stay) and Tag of 1. Then, in-game, when you hit Use on that linedef with the switch texture, the door will open to just a little bit below the lowest ceiling surrounding it and stay open. Heck, you could assign multiple sectors that Tag - including one that doesn't look like a door, but is in fact a monster closet that opens up at the same time.
I took notice of the tags when I looked at the E1M2 lifts and tried doing the same thing with my lift and a linedef placed right in front of it, but that didn't seem to do anything. I saw a physical line appear between the two in E1M2, but that didn't happen for me, so I assumed that kind of connection was some separate function from the tags. I will try again later.
Shadow Hog
Member
Just using the lift dead ahead from E1M2's start, there are a couple of different Linedef Specials at play - an "88 - WR Lift Lower Wait Raise" on a linedef you have to cross over to even enter the room; another of the same type on the northern, upper linedef of the lift, as you'd have to walk over it to step onto it; and a "62 - SR Lift Lower Wait Raise" on the southern, lower linedef of the lift, for you to press Use on if the lift has already raised back up by the point you're there. All are tagged to 4, the Tag that the lift sector is assigned.
Just to break that down further, the letter code at the beginning of the Linedef Special indicates how it's activated. The first letter is the activation type, of which there are four: S (switch), W (walk over), G (gunfire) and D (door - generally the same as switch in practice, although there's some subtle distinctions that I'm not 100% aware of). The second letter determines if the action is repeatable (R) or not (1).
After that it's broken up by action category - usually that's Door, Lift, Ceiling, Floor, Crusher, Light, Exit or Teleport (as well as Scroll, which doesn't need a tag since it affects the linedef the Special is assigned to directly, not any sector). From there, it's broken up further into how that specific Special works - not all Doors are Door Open Wait Close, some could be just Door Open, just Door Close, maybe Door Open Wait Close Fast (for Doom 2 and Ultimate Doom), perhaps Door Open Wait Close Locked with Blue Key...
Lastly, the number at the beginning is just the one the engine assigned to that particular Special type, and is how Specials are stored internally (as a single integer per sidedef). It's not terribly important to memorize.
Hopefully that's of some use.
Just to break that down further, the letter code at the beginning of the Linedef Special indicates how it's activated. The first letter is the activation type, of which there are four: S (switch), W (walk over), G (gunfire) and D (door - generally the same as switch in practice, although there's some subtle distinctions that I'm not 100% aware of). The second letter determines if the action is repeatable (R) or not (1).
After that it's broken up by action category - usually that's Door, Lift, Ceiling, Floor, Crusher, Light, Exit or Teleport (as well as Scroll, which doesn't need a tag since it affects the linedef the Special is assigned to directly, not any sector). From there, it's broken up further into how that specific Special works - not all Doors are Door Open Wait Close, some could be just Door Open, just Door Close, maybe Door Open Wait Close Fast (for Doom 2 and Ultimate Doom), perhaps Door Open Wait Close Locked with Blue Key...
Lastly, the number at the beginning is just the one the engine assigned to that particular Special type, and is how Specials are stored internally (as a single integer per sidedef). It's not terribly important to memorize.
Hopefully that's of some use.
i downloaded doom builder 2 the other day since romero's map also kind of inspired me to try my hand at it again. is there any reason to use gzdoom builder over it assuming i want compatibility with every major engine?
also i want to get the most out of my sc88. i'd love some recommendations of wads with great music.
(no slaughtermaps if possible, please)
also i want to get the most out of my sc88. i'd love some recommendations of wads with great music.
(no slaughtermaps if possible, please)
Dangerblade
Member
Ahoy has posted a 50 minute video looking at DOOM. Check it out here
His videos are highly, highly recommended. He's incredibly in-depth, obviously loves what he does and has a perfect voice for it. Check out his Brief History of Gore video too if you like the above.
His videos are highly, highly recommended. He's incredibly in-depth, obviously loves what he does and has a perfect voice for it. Check out his Brief History of Gore video too if you like the above.
I got it working now and understand the prefixes a bit better. Thanks.
My second big issue is aligning floor and ceiling textures, which doesn't even seem to be possible. Does this have to do with the map format? I am working in Boom format right now, which I assume is some form of rudimentary limit-removing format so you don't have to worry about certain vanilla limiations. Do I have to switch to a different format for that? If so, which one is recommended and most commonly used/most compatible with sourceports? Or do I just have to make sure that my room layouts are inherently aligned with the grid in order to get the texture alignment I want? So far I have been dissuaded from using any of those ceiling lamp textures because they never manage to line up symmetrically with my room layouts.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
I've been waiting for this forever.
KittenMaster
Member
This talk of mapping is making me want to try my hand at making some textures again.
Shadow Hog
Member
GZDoomBuilder is basically just Doom Builder 2, but better (and actively maintained - CodeImp stopped updating DB2 quite a while ago). Not just for GZDoom, either; it comes with several extensions built-in that, frankly, are more useful for vanilla mapping than for ZDoom, such as Sound Propagation, which shows you what sectors can hear you if you fire your gun from the sector your mouse is highlighting, Nodes Viewer, if you want to see how the nodesbuilder is dividing up the BSP (in case you're running into a nasty visual error and need to debug), and Visplane Explorer, which highlights likely candidate spots for visplane overflows.
No problem.
And yeah, you can't realign Flats at all in most map formats. Well, okay, in Boom you might be able to do it with a Scroll Ceiling When Sector Changes Height linedef, but it'll be a LOT of trial and error to get it working right - more than it's likely worth. UDMF lets you do it natively, but is also limited to only high-end source ports like ZDoom or (I think?) Eternity.
Shadow Hog
Member
Not really, no. There is the "Unpegged" flags, the "Lower" of which will lock the Middle texture to be relative to the floor of the higher sector - although it'll also lock the Lower texture such that scrolling the floor of the higher sector up/down won't change the texture's positioning any.
Actually, you'll want to apply Lower Unpegged to the left/right sides of any doors you've got already made, such that the tracks of the door don't scroll alongside the door itself. (Don't apply an Unpegged to the front/back of a door, though. The texture will stay in place as the door raises. It'll look silly.)
Actually, you'll want to apply Lower Unpegged to the left/right sides of any doors you've got already made, such that the tracks of the door don't scroll alongside the door itself. (Don't apply an Unpegged to the front/back of a door, though. The texture will stay in place as the door raises. It'll look silly.)
Shadow Hog
Member
I mean, if it works, then hey.
But no, the elegant solution is to not bother with additional sectors, but just tick "Lower Unpegged" on the tracks the door is sliding on.
The Unpegged flags are hard for me to explain. You might want to futz with them yourself, just to get a feel for them.
But no, the elegant solution is to not bother with additional sectors, but just tick "Lower Unpegged" on the tracks the door is sliding on.
The Unpegged flags are hard for me to explain. You might want to futz with them yourself, just to get a feel for them.
So as long as the ceilings and floors align with the colored blue grids in GZDoom Builders, the texture grid will aign properly, right?
I got a switch working mechanically now, but the problem is now that it doesn't change its texture or make a sound when pushed. Again I looked at the existing switches in the original maps, but I can't see anything specific done to make the switches react audiovisually.
I got a switch working mechanically now, but the problem is now that it doesn't change its texture or make a sound when pushed. Again I looked at the existing switches in the original maps, but I can't see anything specific done to make the switches react audiovisually.
Shadow Hog
Member
Correct. As long as your grid is 64x64, ceiling and floor flats will be aligned to it.
Is the texture you're using starting with "SW1..."? The switches that animate/make noises are actually hardcoded; you have to use one of the preset ones, which usually start with "SW1..." (off) or "SW2..." (on) in vanilla.
Technically there's a way to make custom ones using Boom's SWITCHES lump or ZDoom's ANIMDEFS lump, but that's probably gonna be a little much for your first map.
Shadow Hog
Member
Hmm. Make sure the Linedef Special is an S* one, then, I guess? I might have to see the map to offer better help than that.
Here is the map
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66640537/E1M1.wad
And this is where the switch linedef is
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66640537/E1M1.wad
And this is where the switch linedef is
Shadow Hog
Member
Okay, turns out this was pretty simple - you put the Linedef Special on the wall in front of the switch (Linedef 859) instead of the switch itself (Linedef 862).
By the way, if you've got a sector that's never, ever, EVER going to open up (like I assume that wall dividing the outdoor area and the starting area is), you can just delete that sector and use one-sided linedefs instead. If you NEED a sector there for texture alignment purposes or something, mark the "Secret" flag on the linedef so it shows up as one-sided (red) on the automap.
By the way, if you've got a sector that's never, ever, EVER going to open up (like I assume that wall dividing the outdoor area and the starting area is), you can just delete that sector and use one-sided linedefs instead. If you NEED a sector there for texture alignment purposes or something, mark the "Secret" flag on the linedef so it shows up as one-sided (red) on the automap.
Sheesh. Figures.
I have been trying to optimize what I can, but the whole thing is just starting to feel like a house of cards at this point. Often when I try to fix something I inadvertently break something else. Sometimes the editor even crashes when I try to do something like uncheck an unwanted back side from a linedef.
Using the secret tag just to obscure stuff doesn't sound good from a game design standpoint. Wouldn't that just rack up a bunch of fake secrets that confuses the player?
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
His DropBox is probably being bombarded. Try tweeting at him. Maybe he can upload it elsewhere.
Shadow Hog
Member
That's because that's the convoluted way to make a linedef one-sided, and is liable to lead to unclosed sectors. Easiest way is to just highlight the backside sector of a two-sided linedef and delete it. If you actually want to keep that sector for whatever reason, then draw out a sector the shape of what you don't want to keep and delete that instead. You'll have to retexture it in either event, of course, but, well, that's map-making!
Nope! The name's a bit of a misnomer (in fact, I think it's "linedef shows up as one-sided in automap" in GZDoomBuilder, to ameliorate the confusion). The only secrets that the game counts at the end of the level are sectors that have Sector Special 9.
It's on /idgames.
Got it!
Now I just need doom.wad
edit: nope, definitely have doom1.wad Hmmm, evidently I can't run brutal doom with shareware version?
Does anyone have a link to the doom.wad? You'd think it would be easier to find since its open source
Shadow Hog
Member
The engine is open-source. The game is not. Go buy Doom already.
You could also use FreeDoom, but I would heavily recommend against using Brutal with anything but the proper id-made release. (I mean, I'd heavily recommend against using Brutal for your first run through any WAD in general, but this isn't the time to debate that.)
Oh I own all of them, on multiple platforms even. Now, do I have any idea where my discs are(disks??), no. Nor do I even know if I had my discs if I could easily pull the wad files out.
Shadow Hog
Member
Regardless, I'm not going to link an IWAD on the grounds that I'm not particularly interested in getting banned today.
So, again, your options are to A) hunt down your disk copies somewhere, B) rebuy the game digitally (ZDoom automatically scans the usual Steam install location, and Git builds scan GOG install locations as well), or C) skimp a bit with FreeDoom, which will let you run the level but will use different art/sound assets to avoid copyright infringement.
So, again, your options are to A) hunt down your disk copies somewhere, B) rebuy the game digitally (ZDoom automatically scans the usual Steam install location, and Git builds scan GOG install locations as well), or C) skimp a bit with FreeDoom, which will let you run the level but will use different art/sound assets to avoid copyright infringement.
Probably a good idea
I don't suppose the iphone version has a .wad I can extract from somewhere, huh?
Shadow Hog
Member
Most source ports forbid use of mods when using the shareware episode.
You could possibly edit the map into the WAD, provided you know exactly what you're doing and don't mind hex-editing (SLADE will refuse to save an IWAD).
That said, I think Romero may have done so himself on the Internet Archive? Can't hurt to check it. (I don't advise playing it there; probably uses vanilla Doom, but the map is limit-removing.)
Well, it's getting there. Just need to add some finishing touches to the southwest, southeast and northeast rooms of the map, as well as add some more compeling gameplay elements to the central outdoor section. I'm pretty flabbergasted that something of this magnitude ended up being my very first map and I just learned everything as I went along.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Well, either find a cheap copy of the games on Steam or GOG or elsewhere if you can't find the CDs, or, er, well I won't say anything.
They're pretty darn cheap now. GOG has Ultimate DOOM for $6 and Steam has it for $5. And both have DOOM II and Final DOOM for $5 each. (GOG sells them as a $10 bundle, Steam sells them separately)
If you want to get some new legal copies, I'd say $5-10 is nothing for hassle-free DOOM.
So I have this other issue now with texture alignments. I have made some linedefs with upper and lower walls, and then a one-sided middle texture inbetween them which you can see through from the other side, so that some imps on the other side can be triggered from seeing the player and walking into teleports. Now I just can't seem to seamlessly line up all 3 of the textures at once. I've tried all sorts of peg/unpeg combinations but nothing seems to work. Any way to get them to display the way I want, or is there some alternate way I can get the monster teleports to trigger?
Shadow Hog
Member
The way id did it was to make a small, floor-level tube only a unit or so tall - so flat that players likely wouldn't notice it, and feed it into a room in the dead space the rest of the map wasn't using where the monsters hid. They'd mark the mouth of it as "Secret"/"Shows as One-Sided on Automap", mark the rest of it as "Hidden"/"Hidden on Automap", so players who weren't cheating wouldn't stumble upon it. Thus, as soon as the player shoots inside a room adjoining that tunnel, the monster would hear it, aggro, and be ready to walk over a teleportation line whenever the map designer felt it appropriate. Basically, it's the same idea you have, except your tube is rather large and in the middle of the sector instead of down low/up high.
There's actually another way, though. If you join two sectors together (J or Shift+J in GZDoomBuilder - the former just joining it, the latter also removing redundant linedefs shared between the two so it's more seamless), then any noise the player makes in one subsector will be heard in the other. So, basically, you make a rectangle far enough away from the rest of the map that the player won't hear the enemies waking up or idling, join their sector with one of the sectors in the room that can hear the player making noise, and then you get the same effect without having to use up space making little tubes.
In both cases, I'd advise using the Sound Propagation mode to see if the place the monsters reside actually can hear you from the sector you want them to hear you from. Conversely, if you find they can hear you from a sector you don't want them to hear you from, you might want to start tagging some linedefs as "Block Sound". Block Sound's actually a little unintuitive; it does not stop the engine itself from playing sounds, so it doesn't determine if you can hear monsters, but rather determines if monsters can hear you. Also, only having one Block Sound linedef won't suffice; it takes two sets of Block Sound linedefs to actually stop sound propogation. You also have to be pretty thorough with placement thereof, lest you find the sound leak through a path you didn't place Block Sound on. (And be wary of joined sectors, too, since, just as the second setup above relies on, sound can leak through that; learned that one the hard way, myself.)
That said, if you're really tied to visual aggroing, then you'll just have to play with sector heights, texture offsets and unpegging until you get something vaguely not-awful.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Yeh, what you need is sound tunnels and hidden monster caches far enough away from the level that you can't hear them moving around.
Then when the player fires a weapon in an area where one of the tunnels can hear, (Note: Fists don't cause sound, but anything including the pistol will) say to kill a single pistol guy standing in the entryway, it will wake everyone in the caches up so they're moving around randomly and throughout the level you have invisible door triggers that will open doors inside the caches that have teleporters. That way there's a constant flow of enemies teleporting in as you explore the level.
So in your case I'd make a cache and tunnel it back to some earlier part of your level where you know the player will be firing his weapon at least once. Then place a door trigger around that key platform edge that causes those enemies to teleport in behind the player as he picks the key up.
Interesting note: In the entirety of DOOM II, there's only one single "Monster cache". In level 16: The Suburbs after you pick up the blue key at the top of a tower in the middle of a slime lake and you are suddenly bombarded by a shitload of enemies.
DOOM I has a couple, but surprisingly not many. The first, and only one in the original game is in E1M9 when you pick up some items in the middle of a pentagram. The next one is in Episode 4 in the first level when you pick up a key and some enemies in two caches with a one-way wall that opens teleport in to fuck up your shit.
And that's it. In the entirety of DOOM and DOOM II there are three. They seem to be more loved by modders because it's the only way you could get any sort of "scripting" in the original DOOM where scripting didn't exist. Hexen has a scripting feature and can make enemies teleport from nothing and make multiple things happen with the same trigger, but DOOM could only manipulate sectors. So caches were used to make monsters seemingly teleport in from nowhere. You see it a lot in custom levels because it's cool.
There's also the old tried and true "Baron of hell hiding in room in front of point of interest with a door that opens as you pick up the item, causing him to see you as soon as the door opens, then as soon as he walks forward a single pixel, he teleports behind the player" method that id liked to use a lot. See: Tricks and Traps in the southwest hallway. The player approaches a chainsaw and the wall opens in front of them. A Baron of Hell is waiting and attacks. So you back up, he moves forward, and teleports directly behind you.
Then when the player fires a weapon in an area where one of the tunnels can hear, (Note: Fists don't cause sound, but anything including the pistol will) say to kill a single pistol guy standing in the entryway, it will wake everyone in the caches up so they're moving around randomly and throughout the level you have invisible door triggers that will open doors inside the caches that have teleporters. That way there's a constant flow of enemies teleporting in as you explore the level.
So in your case I'd make a cache and tunnel it back to some earlier part of your level where you know the player will be firing his weapon at least once. Then place a door trigger around that key platform edge that causes those enemies to teleport in behind the player as he picks the key up.
Interesting note: In the entirety of DOOM II, there's only one single "Monster cache". In level 16: The Suburbs after you pick up the blue key at the top of a tower in the middle of a slime lake and you are suddenly bombarded by a shitload of enemies.
DOOM I has a couple, but surprisingly not many. The first, and only one in the original game is in E1M9 when you pick up some items in the middle of a pentagram. The next one is in Episode 4 in the first level when you pick up a key and some enemies in two caches with a one-way wall that opens teleport in to fuck up your shit.
And that's it. In the entirety of DOOM and DOOM II there are three. They seem to be more loved by modders because it's the only way you could get any sort of "scripting" in the original DOOM where scripting didn't exist. Hexen has a scripting feature and can make enemies teleport from nothing and make multiple things happen with the same trigger, but DOOM could only manipulate sectors. So caches were used to make monsters seemingly teleport in from nowhere. You see it a lot in custom levels because it's cool.
There's also the old tried and true "Baron of hell hiding in room in front of point of interest with a door that opens as you pick up the item, causing him to see you as soon as the door opens, then as soon as he walks forward a single pixel, he teleports behind the player" method that id liked to use a lot. See: Tricks and Traps in the southwest hallway. The player approaches a chainsaw and the wall opens in front of them. A Baron of Hell is waiting and attacks. So you back up, he moves forward, and teleports directly behind you.
Shadow Hog
Member
Actually, the fists do cause sound, which is especially silly because A) they'll wake up monsters even if you silently punch the air, and B) holding a loud, noisily-revving chainsaw without actually actively using is won't wake up monsters.
I'm pretty sure there's more than that. For instance, in MAP13: "Downtown", there's a curved staircase that has a Pinky cache hidden inside the building (for reference, I believe it's the large building on the far east portion of the map). When you reach the top and claim the power-up (I think it's a rocket launcher?), the Pinkies teleport in from the cache to ambush you.
Fists are silent in Brutal Doom in order to accomodate stealth gameplay.
But in this case I can't rely on sounds to trigger the teleport, since the room is empty when entering and the player is very unlikely to shoot. The imps are supposed to teleport in right when the player picks up the keycard. I just changed the texture to a flat non-patterned one which has less noticeable seams.
But in this case I can't rely on sounds to trigger the teleport, since the room is empty when entering and the player is very unlikely to shoot. The imps are supposed to teleport in right when the player picks up the keycard. I just changed the texture to a flat non-patterned one which has less noticeable seams.
Shadow Hog
Member
In that particular case, then, what I'd do is link the cache to an earlier room where player is shooting, but have a raised wall that the Imp can't get over. When the player reaches the keycard in the relevant room, they'll have to cross over at least one "Floor Lower to Nearest Floor" Linedef Special, which would lower the raised wall in the cache so the Imp can now cross it. (Heck, put the "WR Teleport (monsters only)" Linedef Special on the linedef of the wall closest to the Imp; it won't actually trigger until the Imp can walk over it, so this should be safe to do.)