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Dota 2 |OT2| Ellen Pudge starring in Beyond Two Throws

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LiQuid!

I proudly and openly admit to wishing death upon the mothers of people I don't like
Ok guys, what is the meaning of the "4" spam in Twitch chat during all these pro matches. I'm usually pretty good on keeping up with these things but I seem to have missed this one.
 

kvk1

Member
Ok guys, what is the meaning of the "4" spam in Twitch chat during all these pro matches. I'm usually pretty good on keeping up with these things but I seem to have missed this one.

http://forum.gamesports.net/dota/showthread.php?55425-What-is-the-meaning-of-the-(4)-in-XBOCT-s-name

"It was from BTS rating hexagon. It didn't mean that he was 4/10. It meant that there were 6 carries that they felt were better than him at the event. They said that there was one 10, one 9, etc. They were trying to make the hexagons relative to each other since randomly rating each team out of 10 was kind of meaningless."
 

F!ReW!Re

Member
Ok guys, what is the meaning of the "4" spam in Twitch chat during all these pro matches. I'm usually pretty good on keeping up with these things but I seem to have missed this one.

I think you mean during Na'vi games:

http://forum.gamesports.net/dota/showthread.php?55425-What-is-the-meaning-of-the-(4)-in-XBOCT-s-name

Beyond the Summit did some Hexagon rating for all teams at Alienware Cup.

They had 6 aspects for every team that were rated from 1 to 10 while 10 beeing the best.

Navi had their carry potential rated as 4, witch is what Xboct is referring here to, i think.

He mentioned it at a recent interview aswell, that he wasnt to happy about it, but also, that he doesnt take it to seriously!
 

Sibylus

Banned
Hate-hate-hate the old-timey "use Scythe like a stunnnn" style, but Fear was sealing kills regardless and they won so it's moot. Still, it hurts me. In my inner feels.
 

Sibylus

Banned
You have more faith than I, gzzz. BH games are miserable for Drow, she needs supports to pool her sentry wards or the like.

How are you supposed to use it?
Ever since Sadist was reworked to provide mana regen instead of flat mana, as well as got a multiplier for killing units and players, it's most efficiently used to last hit a hero because you get so many more death pulses out of it. Fear was using it on heroes with over half health a lot, which is more the old-timey way of getting a second-long stun out of it plus an unimpressive chunk of damage.
 
How are you supposed to use it?

Since it's percent based (not technically but for our usage here), with a scepter it's possibly the largest hitting nuke in the game (bar culling blade, but that's just because of number trickery). If you can get a tanky dude below 50% then he's dead when you use it on him. It's a waste of all that potential damage to use it simply to keep someone in place. Not to mention you get that sadist passive.

Edit: Beaten.
 

Razzer

Member
So I know that sniper is seen as garbage for competitive or even high level play, but let's say you random him. What is the best way to play him? I mean more than just 'hang back, don't get caught' as that is obvious. Does anyone have hints on how the best way to do that is? I just get the feeling that with someone called Sniper you should be more sneaky than just behind teammates. This being for high level play btw.
 

Zeth

Member
Productive morning. Just finished up retroactively viewing 80 SL matches for the stupid Rubick set unlocks. I'm sure there was an easier way (I was skipping to the end, but still tedious).
 

Nymerio

Member
You have more faith than I, gzzz. BH games are miserable for Drow, she needs supports to pool her sentry wards or the like.


Ever since Sadist was reworked to provide mana regen instead of flat mana, as well as got a multiplier for killing units and players, it's most efficiently used to last hit a hero because you get so many more death pulses out of it. Fear was using it on heroes with over half health a lot, which is more the old-timey way of getting a second-long stun out of it plus an unimpressive chunk of damage.

Since it's percent based (not technically but for our usage here), with a scepter it's possibly the largest hitting nuke in the game (bar culling blade, but that's just because of number trickery). If you can get a tanky dude below 50% then he's dead when you use it on him. It's a waste of all that potential damage to use it simply to keep someone in place. Not to mention you get that sadist passive.

Edit: Beaten.

omg, I'm stupid. I was thinking of scythe of vise and not the necro ulti :/
 

Dahbomb

Member
So I know that sniper is seen as garbage for competitive or even high level play, but let's say you random him. What is the best way to play him? I mean more than just 'hang back, don't get caught' as that is obvious. Does anyone have hints on how the best way to do that is? I just get the feeling that with someone called Sniper you should be more sneaky than just behind teammates. This being for high level play btw.
If you get Sniper in All Random in pubs just be a dick and go mid. As long as you play it safe you should be fine. People don't gank the mid hero in low level play so you should be able to get some safe farm. Farm up a Shadowblade then start ganking with other team mates. Basically when the team fight starts, start attacking from the trees and then as soon as a hero is low on health lock them on with the ulti and get the kill steal/secure. Use Shadowblade to get away if things get dicey. After that just stack up on attack speed and damage. People like to go Mask of Madness + Crits on Sniper because by the time they realize whats going on they will have taken a lot of damage and they will be in kill range with the ulti. The range of the ulti is insane.

Always, always be mindful of your positioning and attack from a position where something is between you and the opponent (like trees, creeps and preferably your ally heroes). I feel like Sniper is best picked on teams that have some sort of melee tank hero like Bristleback or Axe where they divert the attention of the hero while you pick them apart. Be careful of gap closer heroes (Clockwerk) or other invis heroes who can just back stab you.

Late game item you can go for Manta Style, Butterfly... really anything as long as it has attack speed and/or damage. I like to build life steal on Sniper but Desolator, Skadi and Mjolnir are fine choices too.
 

shira

Member
Productive morning. Just finished up retroactively viewing 80 SL matches for the stupid Rubick set unlocks. I'm sure there was an easier way (I was skipping to the end, but still tedious).

I honestly think it is worth the 6-7 keys to pay some key reseller. SL was great, if you missed those games it don't get much better than that. If only Speed was at the LAN
 

Karakand

Member
Twitch chat for game 3 of the world chess championship amused me endlessly, despite being the same regurgitated memes from League and Dota streams, just applied nonsensically to chess. #PartOfTheProblem

Carlsen's queen was stuck on h1 (lol) and this was my favorite comment:

bonatoe: Report Queen, not helping team
 

Nymerio

Member
Phase Boots on sniper are nice for positioning

Twitch chat for game 3 of the world chess championship amused me endlessly, despite being the same regurgitated memes from League and Dota streams, just applied nonsensically to chess. #PartOfTheProblem

Carlsen's queen was stuck on h1 (lol) and this was my favorite comment:

lol ok, that's pretty funny
 

Razzer

Member
If you get Sniper in All Random in pubs just be a dick and go mid. As long as you play it safe you should be fine. People don't gank the mid hero in low level play so you should be able to get some safe farm. Farm up a Shadowblade then start ganking with other team mates. Basically when the team fight starts, start attacking from the trees and then as soon as a hero is low on health lock them on with the ulti and get the kill steal/secure. Use Shadowblade to get away if things get dicey. After that just stack up on attack speed and damage. People like to go Mask of Madness + Crits on Sniper because by the time they realize whats going on they will have taken a lot of damage and they will be in kill range with the ulti. The range of the ulti is insane.

Always, always be mindful of your positioning and attack from a position where something is between you and the opponent (like trees, creeps and preferably your ally heroes). I feel like Sniper is best picked on teams that have some sort of melee tank hero like Bristleback or Axe where they divert the attention of the hero while you pick them apart. Be careful of gap closer heroes (Clockwerk) or other invis heroes who can just back stab you.

Late game item you can go for Manta Style, Butterfly... really anything as long as it has attack speed and/or damage. I like to build life steal on Sniper but Desolator, Skadi and Mjolnir are fine choices too.

Thanks. Considering you will get ganked in higher level play, what would you recommend then if mid isn't possible? Is Sniper situationally viable against largely melee lineups? Hell if you wanted to be really quirky you could get a support to forcestaff you onto a cliff before fights around rosh say.
 
Phase Boots on sniper are nice for positioning

I saw someone else build them and thought it was a good idea since Sniper is so position-dependent.

Late game item you can go for Manta Style, Butterfly... really anything as long as it has attack speed and/or damage. I like to build life steal on Sniper but Desolator, Skadi and Mjolnir are fine choices too.

Lifesteal and Skadi stack on ranged heroes, so you can have both on Sniper! I built Skadi after finishing Treads, MoM, and Shadow Blade and it worked very well. I could have gone for a damage item before Skadi, but that TA was doing so much damage I figured the extra HP and stats from Skadi would be a safer choice.
 

Karakand

Member
lol ok, that's pretty funny

Superior front page icon too.

EYLBuDY.jpg
 

Dahbomb

Member
Thanks. Considering you will get ganked in higher level play, what would you recommend then if mid isn't possible? Is Sniper situationally viable against largely melee lineups? Hell if you wanted to be really quirky you could get a support to forcestaff you onto a cliff before fights around rosh say.
In higher level play you have to play Sniper in the safe lane with 2 supports protecting him.

Oh and I built Phase Boots on Sniper especially when I am going all in glass cannon. Honestly that's the only way to really play him. You can opt to go for a Shadowblade but honestly Power Treads are not going to help you survive any more than Phase Boots. With MoM and Phase Boots I can dish out a lot of damage while still being in attack range. If the character is caught out of position or is ganked on he will die no matter what, might as well make it hurt before they kill you.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
What do you guys think of phase boots on drow. Usually see treads on her, but the ability to position is nice.

Also want to try S&Y into crit.
 

Razzer

Member
In higher level play you have to play Sniper in the safe lane with 2 supports protecting him.

Oh and I built Phase Boots on Sniper especially when I am going all in glass cannon. Honestly that's the only way to really play him. You can opt to go for a Shadowblade but honestly Power Treads are not going to help you survive any more than Phase Boots. With MoM and Phase Boots I can dish out a lot of damage while still being in attack range. If the character is caught out of position or is ganked on he will die no matter what, might as well make it hurt before they kill you.

How about the ultimate retard build? Get a blink, hide in treeline whenever a fight is about to start and shoot from safety, ult like normal. Obviously I doubt it could work competitively but simply positioning just doesn't work against pro teams. They will find you.

Edit: Reasoning for 'they will find you' below haha.
 

SamVimes

Member
In higher level play you have to play Sniper in the safe lane with 2 supports protecting him.

Oh and I built Phase Boots on Sniper especially when I am going all in glass cannon. Honestly that's the only way to really play him. You can opt to go for a Shadowblade but honestly Power Treads are not going to help you survive any more than Phase Boots. With MoM and Phase Boots I can dish out a lot of damage while still being in attack range. If the character is caught out of position or is ganked on he will die no matter what, might as well make it hurt before they kill you.

Do you guys only play against people that don't buy blink or something? My ideal Sniper build is Midas->Treads->Skadi and then a damage item (ideally crit, otherwise mom or mkb). Skadi makes you tanky enough that you're not gonna die instantly if they jump on you and it also makes it more difficult for the enemies to retreat or approach you. This philosophy of "no hp items because i have better range" just gets you killed over and over against decent opponents. Shadowblade is complete crap, you can't initiate with it and Sniper is not a particularly good split pusher so you're spending 3000 gold on some dps and a really bad escape.
 

Sibylus

Banned
What do you guys think of phase boots on drow. Usually see treads on her, but the ability to position is nice.

Also want to try S&Y into crit.
I do like Treads, but the hero has been made so everything-or-nothing when it comes to position that I think it's slightly suicidal not to go phase or BoTs. That and a BKB.
 
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