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Dota 2 |OT2| Ellen Pudge starring in Beyond Two Throws
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
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Dota 2 Test Client.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Okay so I tested out some jungling stuff. Everybody is slowed down of course, but some interesting things to note.
Didn't like Axe so much - you can't clear the medium camp in time to stack the hard camp unless you get lucky with spins, and the inability to be fully pooled a salve (or whatever) unless the support comes to back you up definitely hurts. Probably in a worse place.
Nature's Prophet isn't too bad, but you're definitely slower and can't go for a greedy Midas rush anymore (glove + 2 clarity). You definitely need to go Basilius + 2 clarity first or similar, maybe pooled some of the new tangoes. Still got a Midas by about 7:30 or 8:00 this way - definitely slower than before, but not horrible. Better spawns/micro will get it to you faster, and a strategic suicide might help as well.
Lycan - I think he's actually legit now as a jungler again. Not nearly as good as his TI2 incarnation, but I was leveling faster than Prophet, though that may have been due to spawns. He definitely will want to intentionally suicide at some point, but aside from that it's pretty good.
Not sure how other junglers stack up. Doom would be highly dependent on spawns. Enigma was already fast, but I think he comes out of the change pretty good. Chen and Enchantress probably not affected too much. Everyone else (Dark Seer, Bat, etc.) probably slowed down like Prophet or worse.
The XP change was especially noticeable when trying to glove + 2 clarity Midas rush on Prophet. Without good spawns it's simply won't work out.
The other thing about the jungle is that routes may change. More of an issue for Dire jungle, but I'm not sure if it might be better to just do the medium camps early, rather than alternate medium and hard like you would easy -> hard.
Didn't like Axe so much - you can't clear the medium camp in time to stack the hard camp unless you get lucky with spins, and the inability to be fully pooled a salve (or whatever) unless the support comes to back you up definitely hurts. Probably in a worse place.
Nature's Prophet isn't too bad, but you're definitely slower and can't go for a greedy Midas rush anymore (glove + 2 clarity). You definitely need to go Basilius + 2 clarity first or similar, maybe pooled some of the new tangoes. Still got a Midas by about 7:30 or 8:00 this way - definitely slower than before, but not horrible. Better spawns/micro will get it to you faster, and a strategic suicide might help as well.
Lycan - I think he's actually legit now as a jungler again. Not nearly as good as his TI2 incarnation, but I was leveling faster than Prophet, though that may have been due to spawns. He definitely will want to intentionally suicide at some point, but aside from that it's pretty good.
Not sure how other junglers stack up. Doom would be highly dependent on spawns. Enigma was already fast, but I think he comes out of the change pretty good. Chen and Enchantress probably not affected too much. Everyone else (Dark Seer, Bat, etc.) probably slowed down like Prophet or worse.
The XP change was especially noticeable when trying to glove + 2 clarity Midas rush on Prophet. Without good spawns it's simply won't work out.
The other thing about the jungle is that routes may change. More of an issue for Dire jungle, but I'm not sure if it might be better to just do the medium camps early, rather than alternate medium and hard like you would easy -> hard.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I had none of these problems. Maybe it's because of where you started.
Monochromaticx
Member
What does this mean exactly?:
Most of the heroes I like got nice buffs or, at least in Naga's case, didn't get nerfed as badly as I thought she would. Night Stalker looks pretty good now, damn. Earlier first night and Darkness diminishing enemy vision makes me very happy. Offlane stuff is great too.
e: How do you guys think QoP will fare with the mana change on dagger and everything else going on with this patch?
e: How do you guys think QoP will fare with the mana change on dagger and everything else going on with this patch?
My guess is bfly stacks? not sure
Butterfly is viable on PA now. I tested this on my stream earlier. It works like having multiple crits
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
It might just be finding a better route. I was practicing mostly on Dire.
And yeah Kirby, regarding tangos - they might not be able to pool you a full one anymore, but mids/offlaners will definitely be given 1-2 charges depending on their build.
The changes to regen are really going to shake things up mid. Invoker probably back, Disruptor could be extremely strong, etc.
PA with Butterfly.
Blur: 40% dodge or 60% chance to hit modifier
Butterfly: 35% dodge or 65% chance to hit modifier
First the game checks Blur: 100% * 60% = 60% chance to hit
If there isn't a dodge, then the game checks Butterfly: 60% * 65% = 39% chance to hit
Or simplified: 100% (chance to hit) * 60% (100% - Blur) * 65% (100% - Butterfly) = 39% chance to hit
Monochromaticx
Member
6.79: Pick PA
2 butters now give 35+ 35*0,65=57,5% evasion
Butter on Mortred now give you a fucking absurd 40% + 35*0,6=61% evasion (256% EHP against physical, compared to "just" 167%).
That mean that Butterfly actually give you MORE than the usual 52,5% EHP bonus against physical damage on heroes with evasion (on Mortred it's a 90% EHP bonus, pretty absurd). Unless the formula is different, Stacking butters is pretty much encouraged as:
1 butter = +54% EHP
2 butters = +136% EHP (58% evasion)
3 butters = +254% EHP (72% evasion)
4 butters = +449% EHP (82% evasion)
Schweinehund
Member
pretty much what I thought, anyone that doesn't build mkb against PA wasn't doing themselves a favor.
Still that dagger buff looks nice.
Easily, just give them flying movement for 5 seconds if they get hooked and pudge is in zone X-Y etc...
Looks like Lion's Stone Infusion got a new texture, and they also added a particle effect to it.
Old:
New:
Hand of Hell's Ambassador (For Comparison, since its basically 'Stone Hand 2.0')
Taunts have new icons, makes the look like they are on a piece of film:
For some reason, every reference to the Nexon Sponsorship League and the Baekho courier was removed, not sure if this is just for the Test Client, or something happened to the tournament.
Old:
New:
Hand of Hell's Ambassador (For Comparison, since its basically 'Stone Hand 2.0')
Taunts have new icons, makes the look like they are on a piece of film:
For some reason, every reference to the Nexon Sponsorship League and the Baekho courier was removed, not sure if this is just for the Test Client, or something happened to the tournament.
Sigismundo
Member
Trilanes and pooling got nerfed which the competitive meta revolved around. I'm alright with that.
Good luck getting blink, bkb, mek plus aghs
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
My first rampage yay!
In normal games she will be fine but I don't think she has been doing well competitively so this will hurt her more
Valve casuals influencing icefrog
I have a theory dat icefraud doesn't have the final say now
Monochromaticx
Member
Hot damn! Thanks for the explanation. I hope alliance will pick PA more often now.
Pretty sure it is, I remember when they implemented so you could not force staff people to certain cliffs, so the areas where you are "not" allowed to be are already mapped.
Triggers can check for a "a unit enters the area" or just check a radius every 0.125 secs
SteveWinwood
Member
oh its going to go down this path now huh
No because blink/force is still way better
Back in my day, we just had the Triple kill sound play 3 times.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
I need to get in a Gnarls Barkley Huskar game before this patch hits the main client.
I'm still torn on some of the main mechanic changes. Roshan - I know I won't like this when playing myself, but when watching games? I think it's interesting. It's definitely an indirect minor buff to HotD and heroes with summons/creep control since you can always have a treant or whatever scouting it out in that time period. Personally I think the Aegis being 6 minutes instead of 10 was enough, but I don't think this is necessarily bad. It's another comeback mechanic.
Overall I think the changes encourage more early aggression from supports and passivity from mids which is an interesting dynamic. Just one example being that if you get first blood on a support before the 3 minute mark, you can't upgrade the courier with that so you'll probably get boots. Early boots on support = more aggression. I definitely expect to see a lot more CM, especially with the Tranquil changes.
I'm still torn on some of the main mechanic changes. Roshan - I know I won't like this when playing myself, but when watching games? I think it's interesting. It's definitely an indirect minor buff to HotD and heroes with summons/creep control since you can always have a treant or whatever scouting it out in that time period. Personally I think the Aegis being 6 minutes instead of 10 was enough, but I don't think this is necessarily bad. It's another comeback mechanic.
Overall I think the changes encourage more early aggression from supports and passivity from mids which is an interesting dynamic. Just one example being that if you get first blood on a support before the 3 minute mark, you can't upgrade the courier with that so you'll probably get boots. Early boots on support = more aggression. I definitely expect to see a lot more CM, especially with the Tranquil changes.
Dinosaur Tamer
Member
Well, just a few days ago I read on GAF that he has to pull mind tricks on his lazy Valve coworkers to get some bugs fixed. This is just the first step. I have no doubt Valve is forcing him to gradually casualize the game in preparation for a Steambox exclusive rerelease of the game tailored to the new Steam Controller.
SteveWinwood
Member
i think later patches will be steam os exclusive
So by my calculation you achieve 61% evasion on PA with Butterfly? Hmmm, not sure how big of a deal that is when the other team will always get an MKB or sheep against her anyway.
Technosteve
Banned
does evasion stack for faceless void?
shira
Member
Shit needs to be in podcast form. Why the fuck is there video component.
It always did. Backtrack is a separate instance i believe. Not the same as evasion.
League style balancing. Pubs are important too =)
GAME
OF
THROWS
Icefraud has considered pub balance in the past.
See: Overpower getting a cast time.
OF
THROWS
loki was mad
Icefraud has considered pub balance in the past.
See: Overpower getting a cast time.
Butterfly and Daedalus PA. New meta.
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