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Dota 2 |OT4| The saga of Vade and ReRixo: the Boat Anchors continues.

G

Gentle Rodriguez

Member
Aaron said:
Should have used wards, but also you were rich as hell and tanky. You should have bought a gem, and hunted the rat down. Had a similar game where I bought gem even though I was the main carry, and took two heroes with me to push while the other two held our remaining towers. We killed Riki over and over until their team lost the will to fight. They were bitching at each other in all chat when we smashed their base.
Click to expand...
Yeah I was thinking of getting a gem but was discouraged by the idea of getting killed and losing it, in hindsight I should be gone for it as it was the only way we could've won. I didn't see the kills Riki got on my teammates but I'm guessing they didn't straight up man fight him and tried to run away. And Drow vs Riki isn't great for us either. In the end i think we would've won had TB farmed competently and if SS didn't feed. We were up 12-4 or something too before we started feeding Riki.
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Procarbine said:
legit why do you feel the need to start that sentence with legit it just makes you sound stupid legit legit legit legit
Click to expand...

legit chillax bro I know the loss of the grammar wars has been hard on you, but I want you to know, it's going to be OK pro. we're going to make it through this, trust me, just take a xanax.
 
A

Aaron

Member
Gentle Rodriguez said:
Yeah I was thinking of getting a gem but was discouraged by the idea of getting killed and losing it, in hindsight I should be gone for it as it was the only way we could've won. I didn't see the kills Riki got on my teammates but I'm guessing they didn't straight up man fight him and tried to run away. And Drow vs Riki isn't great for us either. In the end i think we would've won had TB farmed competently and if SS didn't feed. We were up 12-4 or something too before we started feeding Riki.
Click to expand...
SS is made of paper, and you were playing one of the tankiest heroes in the game. Him having three deaths up on you isn't feeding. The biggest problem isn't what your team did, it was that you didn't collectively realize Riki was a problem, and worked as a team to resolve it. If you keep thinking, 'it was my team's fault' you will continue to lose in these situations. You needed to assess the problem, come up with solutions, and call some damned plays. There's a reason why no pro teams pick Riki. He's easy to shut down as long as you play as a team.
 
G

Gentle Rodriguez

Member
Aaron said:
SS is made of paper, and you were playing one of the tankiest heroes in the game. Him having three deaths up on you isn't feeding. The biggest problem isn't what your team did, it was that you didn't collectively realize Riki was a problem, and worked as a team to resolve it. If you keep thinking, 'it was my team's fault' you will continue to lose in these situations. You needed to assess the problem, come up with solutions, and call some damned plays. There's a reason why no pro teams pick Riki. He's easy to shut down as long as you play as a team.
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Woah hold up, I was mostly talking about early game. He didn't feed as in die too much, but he died a bunch to Riki because of bad positioning. That's what I meant. Yeah in the end we even'd out in deaths but that was us just getting our team wiped again and again. I told them to get sentries but apparently nobody paid attention and they kept buying dust and getting caught out. Eventually I got sentries myself but Riki already bought a gem to counteract it.

In the end I tried my hardest to try and shut Riki down but it just didn't work. I made my fair share of mistakes but I wasn't the one constantly dying to a hero that's not that hard to shut down. I blame myself for plenty of games I've lost, this one just wasn't on me.
 
G

Gofu

Banned
Hylian7 said:
Here's a dumb bit of theorycraft for 6,81 that may or may not be viable, but is certainly worth thinking about.

KotL mid (mainly for farming an Aghanim's)

+Good way to supress enemy mid, Illuminate has long range, good damage
+Can effectively push the lane at will
+Good mana sustenance
+When he hits 6 he can call in an ally for a gank easily. Particularly useful against a farming mid.
-Squishy
-Some mids might be trouble for him, espeically ones that can catch him far back enough channeling an Illuminate. I'm talking Pudge with level 3 hook, Puck, Clockwerk, and more.
-Won't be putting Chakra to much use on others until he has his Aghanim's up.
-No real gank potential other than on the enemy mid by calling someone else in, or if you go to another lane and recall someone.

I would think you would just go brown boots, maybe a Bottle if you want it to grab runes, but you probably won't be ganking until you can recall people in.

Am I completely crazy here or could this actually be viable?
Click to expand...

stop
 
G

Gofu

Banned
Hylian7 said:
A bit of a rant/blog post on something.

"Why would you ever pick ____ in ranked?" - People that say that and why they are wrong.

Usually this happens when I pick Pudge sometimes in ranked, but I've seen it happen with other heroes too. Someone will say "Well that hero is shit and you should never pick them in ranked." It's really annoying, and usually they are absolutely wrong, and here is why.

1. Pub != Pro

Even in ranked mode, at 5k MMR, Pub meta, skill level, and coordination are not the same as they are in pro games. Most of the time these are 5 dudes that just met up on a team and picking whatever the hell they want if it's all pick, or the captain coming up with some strat of their own in Captains Mode and Captains Draft. On top of that, despite MMRs, skill level is all over the place, and everyone's ideas differ. I personally like to pick Pudge and do my thing, and it works quite frequently. People will tell me "Pudge isn't a viable hero in ranked." and I usually prove them wrong. Usually people get these ideas from the fact that these heroes are almost never picked in pro games. This includes heroes like Pudge, Anti-Mage, PA, Drow, and more.

2. Because pub meta and skill level is different, new strats are viable

I know I've ran a Pudge with pocket NP a few times and it works wonders. It's a great strat, one that would be impossible to execute without picking Pudge in the first place. I've even done a support Viper in a trilane before, and it's actually worked! Things like Medusa ancient jungling, people usually scoff at, but they don't realize that if you are against a team that can't really stop you efficiently, or you have a team that's extremely good at protecting you, it's quite viable in pubs! Sure, in most higher level games it's bad (and Medusa in general doesn't work in most games), but in uncoordinated pubs you can pull it off playing it smartly.
Click to expand...

seriously stop
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Did 2 Earth games in bots, called for solo off, didn't get it either time.
Hero needs a level advantage so badly. Stone CD worse than I remembered.

Guess it won't be auto win territory.
 
A

Acinixys

Member
Gentle Rodriguez said:
http://dotabuff.com/matches/631486955

I don't want to say I blame my team, but I blame my team. Went up solo against Riki and BM in my lane and won, suddenly people started dying once he hit 6. Terrorblade somehow didn't farm in lane despite being in a trilane in which they got several kills.
Click to expand...

Regardless of how badly your team fed, rushing bloodstone on Timbersaw is not very productive

He needs to tank up and be able to sustain himself through fights

I would say a much better build is mana boots - bottle - Rod of Atos - Shivas/Euls - Sheepstick - Heart (Maybe a BKB if the have 1001 stuns)

He gets way more utility this way as well

You can even go blink after Atos if youre balling out of control.
 
M

Madouu

Member
Get a blink after your mana boots, really. That way you can blink on the target of your choice, use your whole combo and timber chain away to safety. Rinse Repeat since his cooldowns are so low.
 
N

NotoriousPUG

Member
Hazaro said:
Did 2 Earth games in bots, called for solo off, didn't get it either time.
Hero needs a level advantage so badly. Stone CD worse than I remembered.

Guess it won't be auto win territory.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the stone timer really hurts him. Seems like he's right there on the edge of being a good pick, but could use more stones or a faster timer.
 
G

Gentle Rodriguez

Member
Acinixys said:
Regardless of how badly your team fed, rushing bloodstone on Timbersaw is not very productive

He needs to tank up and be able to sustain himself through fights

I would say a much better build is mana boots - bottle - Rod of Atos - Shivas/Euls - Sheepstick - Heart (Maybe a BKB if the have 1001 stuns)

He gets way more utility this way as well

You can even go blink after Atos if youre balling out of control.
Click to expand...

Yeah Bloodstone was probably wrong, I just go it every Timbersaw game because it's all I know. How do I know not to go Bloodstone? We were steamroller the other team so it seemed like a good choice.

Just had a really shitty Ursa game, I'm not good with that hero. Several times messed up my button order, hitting Q before Blink, forgetting to Blink, just sloppy crap all around.
 
D

Demoli

Member
U wot m8? How can you not rush a Bs when playing timbersaw? You talk about him needing sustain and tank, and bloodstone gives them both with an amazing build up. Getting a Blink before finishing it is fine, but in the end bloodstone is a ton of tank AND sustain, and that is all timber needs.

I usually build Mana boots + stick-> BS -> Blink -> Shivas and it usually works wonders. afterwards I just go whatever is needed, like Sheep, Blademail, Pipe, etc. I used to build a euls first aswell, but when they nerfed the chain, It felt really lackluster.
 
G

GordonHalfman

Member
Anbokr said:
legit you can pretty much effectively mid any hero in dota (especially in pubs), it all just depends on the matchup

i still remember when my wraith king mid crushed the shit out of 109 sniper it was so fkn ez, no joke
Click to expand...

Drkirby said:
Don't forget my amazing solo offlane Anti-Mage.
Click to expand...

Gofu said:
doing dumb shit with the excuse of "its worked before" doesnt make the shit any less dumb
Click to expand...

Why is something dumb in this thread just because Hylian says it?
 
G

G.ZZZ

Member
Huskar change won't change much for him, it's something that come online only very late. You'll still want Meka and Armlet before any lifesteal. Satanic is however a better late extension that Heart, but not sure if it's much better than Halbred.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
G.ZZZ said:
Huskar change won't change much for him, it's something that come online only very late. You'll still want Meka and Armlet before any lifesteal. Satanic is however a better late extension that Heart, but not sure if it's much better than Halbred.
Click to expand...

Huskar change will encourage more people to play him in pubs regardless

Ughhhhhhh
 
G

Gentle Rodriguez

Member
Dragon Knight is really fun, one of the few strength carries I can play well and isn't boring. One problem is that I have issues deciding what items to get for him though. In the last game I went treads>Drums>BKB>Mjollnir>Manta, and it worked out well, but except for the bkb I just bought those because I like the items. Maybe I should have gone Halberd because of the high amounts of physical damage. Would've gone AC but the Tiny on my team already went it.

PS: DK+Tiny=dead towers. Shit went down really fast.
 
I

inkls

Member
I think I might be addicted to Doom. He's just so fun to play and he's such an anti-pubstomper.

Every game I think: "Don't pick Doom" and then someone on the other team instalocks stuff like Storm spirit.

unghhhhhh
 
F

FACE

Banned
Gentle Rodriguez said:
They kept buying dust but I told them to get sentries too. I don't get the point of dust for Riki, he's not coming out of invis unless he can kill you 1 on 1 really fast, what the hell is dusting him going to do? Asshole bought a gem too so my sentries didn't last long, but the game was over by that point.
Click to expand...

He didn't have a diffusal, so dust is good.
 
G

G.ZZZ

Member
The Technomancer said:
Huskar change will encourage more people to play him in pubs regardless

Ughhhhhhh
Click to expand...

I think the biggest advantage of the change would be the ability to seamlessly farm jungle/ancients and even rosh. But no way i'm getting anything else but meka into Armlet first, it's way too good of a combo on him. It's a pity because its item progression is so limited since he need those two items desperately, else i'd go funny shit like Shadowblade/Agha for endless DUNKS.
 
K

Krauser Kat

Member
i feel so proud. I started playing as doom. I already got called a cyka like 3 times. Feels good.

I never know what to build though. He really benefits from armor and attack speed.
 
U

Ultimatum

Banned
ok lets say you dont get ganked (which you will), why would you want kotl aghs so much when you could choose 50 better heroes to go mid with and contribute more later

also dk is pretty damn boring but he's strong and gets the job done so whatever
 
K

Kard8p3

Member
Krauser Kat said:
i feel so proud. I started playing as doom. I already got called a cyka like 3 times. Feels good.

I never know what to build though. He really benefits from armor and attack speed.
Click to expand...

I like treads/blink/halberd/mek if your team needs one asap. Could also make AC/heart.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Ultimatum said:
ok lets say you dont get ganked (which you will), why would you want kotl aghs so much when you could choose 50 better heroes to go mid with and contribute more later

also dk is pretty damn boring but he's strong and gets the job done so whatever
Click to expand...
Like I said it was dumb theory craft and of course there are better mids. Just a unique strategy that no one really does that might be viable now.

Same principle applies with a lot of unorthodox mids.
 
I

inkls

Member
Krauser Kat said:
i feel so proud. I started playing as doom. I already got called a cyka like 3 times. Feels good.

I never know what to build though. He really benefits from armor and attack speed.
Click to expand...

Match id?

And yeah, with his agi gain you'd think more people would figure that out. I keep seeing people rush a naked aghs and then get destroyed in ganks. If you're going to ignore armor items like Shiva or AC early, at least get something like a basi or a medallion lol or devour a wildkin.

How do you build and lane him?
 
C

Calidor

Member
Ultimatum said:
ok lets say you dont get ganked (which you will), why would you want kotl aghs so much when you could choose 50 better heroes to go mid with and contribute more later
Click to expand...

even if I don't think mid kotl is a good idea, sending a support-esque solo mid is nothing new.

Rubick mid was pretty common in TI2, also solo mid aghs rushing AA (I think it was Navi?)
 
A

Acinixys

Member
Demoli said:
U wot m8? How can you not rush a Bs when playing timbersaw? You talk about him needing sustain and tank, and bloodstone gives them both with an amazing build up. Getting a Blink before finishing it is fine, but in the end bloodstone is a ton of tank AND sustain, and that is all timber needs.

I usually build Mana boots + stick-> BS -> Blink -> Shivas and it usually works wonders. afterwards I just go whatever is needed, like Sheep, Blademail, Pipe, etc. I used to build a euls first aswell, but when they nerfed the chain, It felt really lackluster.
Click to expand...

BS gives you 500 HP and a little extra HP regen

But when if you die twice, or even more and end with one charge? You now have a 5k doorstop

Atos into Shivas gives you +/- the same amount of EHP (350 hp + 15 armor), and its way more practical to have the Atos slow and the Shivas frost blast in team fights at the 30 min mark than a Bloodstone that will give you a tiny bit of extra regen

Im not saying Bloodstone is bad on Timber

Im saying its a silly greedy pub build that will cripple you in the long run

(This isnt bullshit theory crafting. I have a 60% winrate over 70 games on Timber)

ViviOggi said:
Why are you ignoring mana regen
Click to expand...


Atos + Shivas = 50 Int = 650 extra mana and 2.0 extra mana regen. If you have mana boots and a bottle you should have plenty of mana to spam you spells
 
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