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DOTA 2 |OT6| Plz vote for Keeper of the Light Arcana

I forgot how rewarding visage can be when you play him. I don't even know if I'd classify him as support, he's kind of like warlock where you can turn him into a snowball carry if you do well enough early on. A potentinal 7 second stun is so damn good.
 
How do you handle Bounty Hunter's low HP?

Played possibly my worst ever game with him, was getting detroyed in every situation


Realle like the simplicity of using Bristleback
 
How do you handle Bounty Hunter's low HP?

Played possibly my worst ever game with him, was getting detroyed in every situation


Realle like the simplicity of using Bristleback

counter ward, use medallion of courage for armor reduction, and raise your strength for stronger hits instead of faster attacking. Gank squishies
 

Hylian7

Member
How do you handle Bounty Hunter's low HP?

Played possibly my worst ever game with him, was getting detroyed in every situation


Realle like the simplicity of using Bristleback
Keep throwing out Tracks and check people's inventories for detection. Make a mental note of where they have noticed you because they have sentries.

Don't build Battle Fury.
 
Man, I might be totally off here, but I think Bounty is tragically impactless on the off lane or any lane for that matter. Such a weak pick at the moment in pubs. Can't win a game with a BH on my team to save my life. Likewise, playing against one is so easy, I almost feel bad for free farming as well as threatening to kill him every time he approaches the creep wave. One dust is usually all it takes. The hero does so little.
 

Hylian7

Member
why? because its a farming orientated item?

Basically, and you get nothing you really need out of it that is worth the cost.

Cleave - Don't need it
Mana - Bottle/Aquila/Medallion
Health - Drums/BKB
Damage - Almost any other item will do more. Medallion is cheap and gives you great effective damage.

Man, I might be totally off here, but I think Bounty is tragically impactless on the off lane or any lane for that matter. Such a weak pick at the moment in pubs. Can't win a game with a BH on my team to save my life. Likewise, playing against one is so easy, I almost feel bad for free farming as well as threatening to kill him every time he approaches the creep wave. One dust is usually all it takes. The hero does so little.

You leave at 6 and start tracking and helping your team kill people.

You should pretty much track everyone all the time.
 

Procarbine

Forever Platinum
counter ward, use medallion of courage for armor reduction, and raise your strength for stronger hits instead of faster attacking. Gank squishies

Medallion is a bad item on bounty, it won't help your first out of invis hit and that is the most important. He's not a hero that's going for sustain, he wants to his you once or twice, nuke you, and kill you. Often when the help of an ally.

Strength does not increase bounty's damage. That's either raw +damage or agility.

Keep throwing out Tracks and check people's inventories for detection. Make a mental note of where they have noticed you because they have sentries.

Don't build Battle Fury.

Good advice.

Basically, and you get nothing you really need out of it that is worth the cost.

Cleave - Don't need it
Mana - Bottle/Aquila/Medallion
Health - Drums/BKB
Damage - Almost any other item will do more. Medallion is cheap and gives you great effective damage.



You leave at 6 and start tracking and helping your team kill people.

You should pretty much track everyone all the time.

Good again except for medallion. Your primary damage item should be desolater or mkb. Builds like drum -> deso -> bkb, or some other order, are the most common.
 
Medallion is a bad item on bounty, it won't help your first out of invis hit and that is the most important. He's not a hero that's going for sustain, he wants to his you once or twice, nuke you, and kill you. Often when the help of an ally.

Strength does not increase bounty's damage. That's either raw +damage or agility.



Good advice.



Good again except for medallion. Your primary damage item should be desolater or mkb. Builds like drum -> deso -> bkb, or some other order, are the most common.

Use Medallion, then go Invis, then hit them, preferably with Jinada off cooldown.
 

Acinixys

Member
This was one of those "THANK THE LORD FOR NO CONCEDE" matches. Was a pretty epic comeback and reminded me why I love this game so damn much

Lanes were:
PotM + Lina vs Terrorblade + Sky (Top)
PA(Me) vs Tinker (Mid)
Doom + CM vs NS + Undying (Bot)

Bot lane got decimated with CM dying 4-5 times before the 8 min mark due to decay/tombstone spam

I got zoned pretty hard mid by Tinker with his stupid march spam and him lasering me every time I jumped on him.

Top was pretty even and they traded kills back and forth

Then suddenly at about the 15 min mark they started 5 manning and totally took over the map. We lost all our outer towers at the 20 min mark and were confined to our base for fear of ganks by Sky/Tinker/Stalker

We had to defend our T3s and Rax for about 10 mins straight due to Terror spamming ranged illusions (He had Manta and Skadi by then and was hard to deal with)

So we turtled for 10-15 mins untill Doom and myself had our BKBs. Then we took a fight outside our base and BAM, teamwiped them.

The tables turned and we took all their outer towers, giving ourselves a massive gold boost. From there it was fight after fight of us managing to win and take the advantage to push their rax

You can see the exact moment our BKBs arrived at the 34 +/- minute mark. XP swings up and doesnt stop for anyone
EaX0Mqa.png
 

Procarbine

Forever Platinum
Use Medallion, then go Invis, then hit them, preferably with Jinada off cooldown.

This is terrible for two main reasons.

1) Bounty often relies on surprise to kill heroes, you completely remove this advantage doing this. TPs can start, dust can go down, etc.

2) Using your invis immediately before hitting them removes it as a possible defensive option, making your gank far more risky. If you intend to simply medallion and run up to hit them, you are then unable to kill anything that has a disable.
 
deso op on bh. I like either earlier aquilas, bottle or drums on bh with phase boots and maybe a wand and just trying to coordinate ganks after I hit level 6, max shuriken first, 2 points in invis at most early game, max jinada second. First big item is usually deso or bkb. Last time I really played BH was before the shadowblade + jinada nerf so maybe this isn't viable anymore.
 

Quesa

Member
Medallion is a bad item on bounty, it won't help your first out of invis hit and that is the most important. He's not a hero that's going for sustain, he wants to his you once or twice, nuke you, and kill you. Often when the help of an ally.

Strength does not increase bounty's damage. That's either raw +damage or agility.



Good advice.



Good again except for medallion. Your primary damage item should be desolater or mkb. Builds like drum -> deso -> bkb, or some other order, are the most common.

Why MKB over daedalus/basher vs non-evasion heroes?
 

Procarbine

Forever Platinum
Why MKB over daedalus/basher vs non-evasion heroes?

I don't like buying crit because it won't stack on Jinada hits, but that's just me. Abyssal is a good option as well, but I don't consider basher to be a damage item really. I would reserve that for late game because you are primarily going to be hit and running on BH, which basher doesn't lend itself to. It's a CC item that allows you to sustain damage on a target, until you upgrade it.
 

Acerac

Banned
Eh even as Lich you can go mid. He's one of the few supports that can have a big impact if you take him mid. You'll learn these things the more you play. For now just focus on getting the basics down and if your team mates are jerks then just mute them and do your thing.

Lich mid and Lich offlane are played pretty much the same. The perk to being in either scenario is that you get bumped from being a 4/5 position (support and hard support) to a 3 (semi-support-carry-master-of-death). Your prime objective at that point is to disrupt their mid and setup ganks. How do I do this oh wise master of all things Lich? Simply put, you be an asshole. You block the creep wave as hard as you can and sacrifice creeps from behind the tower. Sacrificing creeps give you the exp value of the creep, and denies your opponent that (as long as they aren't in range).

Get yourself a quick pair of boots and ward the rune spots and steal or deny every rune you can. Remember, your goal isn't necessarily to win the lane, just to minimize what your opponents accomplish. When you hit 6 or 7 (depending on how the game is going, and you should have a skill layout of 4/0/2/1 prioritizing ult>frost blast>sacrifice) lurk towards whichever lane they are pushing more and wrap around them while pinging like a sociopath so your teamates are fully aware the Lich Train is coming.

Now, when engaging, Lich requires a bit of on the fly thinking. Don't just Chain Frost the first hero you see, make sure if you use it you're guaranteed a kill. If you can get the jump on 2-3 heroes persuing your hard carry odds are you're going to kill them both. If it's a group of 3 always focus on the least mobile heroes present, something like a Lion, Shadow Shaman, Lina, WD, etc. If you can get a Chain Frost off between 2 slow supports, they have nowhere to run and are most certainly dead.

As a little aside, I usually don't go past 2 or 3 points in Sacrifice until later. Frost Armor is really good in the mid-game and can really screw people up. As for items, normally I play full support Lich and go for something like a Mech, but if you're in the 3ish position you probably want to go for some wonky utility items. If your farm is incredible get a fast Scythe, eventually you will want one but no reason to waste time with only a Mystic Staff when you could get cheaper better items earlier. While typing this although I've never used it I feel like Rod of Atos on Lich would be nice if you have a gank heavy team, and maybe even something like a Eul's would be good. Agh's is nice for fights if your opponent is very melee heavy and lacks mobility, but in most cases it won't help a ton.

Hope any of this helps.

Thanks for the advice guys, I didn't realize that heroes were so flexible in this game. I've read about the priority farming system, but I didn't realize it's really up to the players to decide who gets what. League has such a static meta that it's hard to imagine such variety. Thanks to both of you for the tips, though I don't plan on bringing Lich mid again any time soon (farming is too painful) the info you passed on will certainly be put to good use. I appreciate it. :)
 

Procarbine

Forever Platinum
Thanks for the advice guys, I didn't realize that heroes were so flexible in this game. I've read about the priority farming system, but I didn't realize it's really up to the players to decide who gets what. League has such a static meta that it's hard to imagine such variety. Thanks to both of you for the tips, though I don't plan on bringing Lich mid again any time soon (farming is too painful) the info you passed on will certainly be put to good use. I appreciate it. :)

Don't trip yourself up worrying about farming positions and what not, just focus on the game in general. The only thing in that vein you want to remember is don't steal farm from your carry in lane if you're supporting.
 

Acerac

Banned
Don't trip yourself up worrying about farming positions and what not, just focus on the game in general. The only thing in that vein you want to remember is don't steal farm from your carry in lane if you're supporting.
Aye, though if I am in a farming position (solo or whatnot) I'm used to wanting a champ that scales accordingly. Lich scales by level with his ult, but as far as I've seen that's where most of his power comes from. Granted, I've noticed that this game gives TONS of xp for kills, so I suppose going carry-ish Lich makes a bit of sense... but he'd still not be your teams' #1 carry in any but the worst case of scenarios.

Farming is miserable with Lich. If I can't manage 5 farm a minute I feel I'm doing poorly. I had like 85 farm 40 minutes in. I wanted to cry. I'll adapt eventually I suppose.
 

inkls

Member
Aye, though if I am in a farming position (solo or whatnot) I'm used to wanting a champ that scales accordingly. Lich scales by level with his ult, but as far as I've seen that's where most of his power comes from. Granted, I've noticed that this game gives TONS of xp for kills, so I suppose going carry-ish Lich makes a bit of sense... but he'd still not be your teams' #1 carry in any but the worst case of scenarios.

Farming is miserable with Lich. If I can't manage 5 farm a minute I feel I'm doing poorly. I had like 85 farm 40 minutes in. I wanted to cry. I'll adapt eventually I suppose.

Coming from lol too, I know the feel with last hits. But tbh if you're starting, 85 last hits at 40 min is pretty good.
 

Acerac

Banned
Coming from lol too, I know the feel with last hits. But tbh if you're starting, 85 last hits at 40 min is pretty good.

With sniper, venomancer, and viper keeping those farm numbers up is relatively easy. It's just that the Lich's autoattack is so ridiculously awkward. I ended up buying mana regen items and farming with his spells because it was literally all I could think to do. Obviously this wasn't optimal, but I was thrown in to a new situation.
 

inkls

Member
With sniper, venomancer, and viper keeping those farm numbers up is relatively easy. It's just that the Lich's autoattack is so ridiculously awkward. I ended up buying mana regen items and farming with his spells because it was literally all I could think to do. Obviously this wasn't optimal, but I was thrown in to a new situation.

Just wait till you play zeus. his attack animation is the worst.
 

Reckoner

Member
I see a lot of people complaining about finding lots of idiots in Captains Mode, but so far 90% of my wins have been while playing it. I actually found some cool and friendly players who are communicative in it.
 

Pratfall

Member
I don't like buying crit because it won't stack on Jinada hits, but that's just me. Abyssal is a good option as well, but I don't consider basher to be a damage item really. I would reserve that for late game because you are primarily going to be hit and running on BH, which basher doesn't lend itself to. It's a CC item that allows you to sustain damage on a target, until you upgrade it.

What do you think about AC? I've liked phase, drums, deso, AC. Since bounty falls off pretty hard I like to start building an aura to help my 1 carry.
 

Procarbine

Forever Platinum
What do you think about AC? I've liked phase, drums, deso, AC. Since bounty falls off pretty hard I like to start building an aura to help my 1 carry.

Seems fine, whatever your team needs. Vlads is always a good option too.

Just have to watch aura giving you away, but late in the game it doesn't matter as much.
 
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