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DOTA 2 |OT6| Plz vote for Keeper of the Light Arcana

Wok

Wok

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
I don't think they had time. They made the right call after glyph was burned and people were still dead. EE getting picked off cost them a win at the end.
Click to expand...

If you think about it:
  • why did EE get picked off during their one and single push past the T3?
  • why did this death result in Alliance winning the game?
  • and on the other side, why did Admiral Bulldog get picked off so few times during his relentless split-pushes?
  • and when he did get picked off, why did Alliance not lose?
The answer is: Alliance knows better than C9 how and when to push.

Edit: There I am, first post of the page. Dammit.
 
B

BigAT

Member
The Technomancer said:
I don't know about risk free but its absolutely passive. The fact that some pick off kills were occurring in the back half of this match doesn't mean its any less passive since C9 was unable to leverage any kills into an actual aggressive activity.
Click to expand...

90 kills in that match, I don't know how you can even begin to call that passive. Chinese games that have single digit kill counts at 40 or 50 minutes are passive.
 
K

ksan

Member
Furion is why Icefrog is a beautiful motherfucker.
Simple as fuck hero design, but one skill that makes him different from every other hero.
All the other skills would be quite shit if you gave him them to another hero.

And best of all, making people mad while still being, at least in my opinion, incredibly balanced, just because you have to adjust your playstyle.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
BigAT said:
90 kills in that match, I don't know how you can even begin to call that passive. Chinese games that have single digit kill counts at 40 or 50 minutes are passive.
Click to expand...

Because C9 couldn't do anything with the kills they got, that's my point. They would pick off Puck or Wisp, whooo, now what? Back to base to stop Bulldog from pushing in again
 
U

Ultrabum

Member
The Technomancer said:
I don't know about risk free but its absolutely passive. The fact that some pick off kills were occurring in the back half of this match doesn't mean its any less passive since C9 was unable to leverage any kills into an actual aggressive activity.
Click to expand...

The thing that makes it risk free is that as long as the lanes are pushed, you can die and get picked off, and the other team can do nothing to your buildings. That is what makes it risk free.

Bulldog got caught multiple times, and it just didn't matter because wisp + SK relocated onto the other lane and did building damage. By the time you defend that lane, and push out, bulldog is back up and tps into the trees off the map and it starts over.

Low risk strat, requires a good position to start. Requires communication.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
The Technomancer said:
Honestly its not even that so much as how incredibly difficult it makes it for the receiving team to take any objectives of their own. NP especially just keeps the enemy team in the base past a certain point, because you can't go for a T2 without risking losing your rax. Its not that I wish there were more teamfights, its that I wish C9 were more able to do anything
Click to expand...

Indeed. Honestly, once you're down a set of rax to a NP, it's usually GG. The investment in resources required to slow his pushing with a lane of megas means a free map for the other teammates to push, catch up on farm, or build a bigger lead in gold/cs/items.

Like, you have to have a hero capable of stopping him when he tp's into a lane. Like a Space Cow. Or an Io. Maybe Abyssal Underlord will be the answer when he's released.
 
K

ksan

Member
Maybe c9 shouldn't let the heros through if they don't know how to actually play against it?

Fucking next lvl solution.
 
D

dmshaposv

Member
I'm still surprised Bulldog doesn't play lycan competitively. That hero fits his playstyle like a glove, and yet I think loda is the one who plays it in the 1 position.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
ksan said:
Maybe c9 shouldn't let the heros through if they don't know how to actually play against it?

Fucking next lvl solution.
Click to expand...

Given how much Wisp + Tank Carry was dominating I don't blame them at all for banning the way they did. Honestly I think they should have gone deathball aggression. Wrap a Death Prophet inside a good supporting team and just never give Bulldog a chance to push
 
K

ksan

Member
The Technomancer said:
Given how much Wisp + Tank Carry was dominating I don't blame them at all for banning the way they did. Honestly I think they should have gone deathball aggression. Wrap a Death Prophet inside a good supporting team and just never give Bulldog a chance to push
Click to expand...

So... Ban wisp at least?
Dreams-Visions said:
word. but man...the problem having so much balance in the hero pool brings is a true "pick your poison" scenario.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but that'd still force alliance to play a more "normal" playstyle.
In reality, maybe c9 thought that they would actually be able to do well against furion, and didn't want to end up playing against something similar to game 1 again.
 
T

trh

Nifty AND saffron-colored!
dmshaposv said:
I'm still surprised Bulldog doesn't play lycan competitively. That hero fits his playstyle like a glove, and yet I think loda is the one who plays it in the 1 position.
Click to expand...

And Loda has a horrible win rate with Lycan, iirc. Like, abysmal.

Edit: 50% apparently, could have sworn I saw a stat pop up during a game that put him at like 2-8 or something like that.
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
I think the issue with Lycan is he really does fall off. Plus while he can just push your base in after a single bad fight, this doesn't work well if the entire enemy team just buys back.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
rEEkt

Lycan isn't mobile enough for Alliance's gameplan, I think, that's why they don't run him. His projection isn't so great, when you compare him to TI3 LD and Furion. He's a bulldozer, not a helicopter gunship, which is what Alliance wants on Bulldog.
 
K

ksan

Member
I think Loda likes to do stuff with his supports later on in the game, that's why he doesn't play/sucks on lycan.

It's s4's and bulldog's job to do the flashy solo shit.
 
L

LiQuid!

I proudly and openly admit to wishing death upon the mothers of people I don't like
Demoli said:
For anyone wondering about the pat, here's a link
Click to expand...

Best webm on the entire fucking internet.

Bulldog showing some remorse?
Lsa9SWY.png

Kappa
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Wok said:
If you think about it:
  • why did EE get picked off during their one and single push past the T3?
  • why did this death result in Alliance winning the game?
  • and on the other side, why did Admiral Bulldog get picked off so few times during his relentless split-pushes?
  • and when he did get picked off, why did Alliance not lose?
The answer is: Alliance knows better than C9 how and when to push.
Click to expand...
Inclined to agree with this.

To counter the rat, you must understand the rat. C9's ratting involves creating space for Tinker and then riding his cancerous pushing to victory, but this doesn't really teach them anything about the Alliance style of rat. That's why, I think, despite being picked off a couple of times, Alliance never really fell too far behind. Their rat is much more resilient and fine tuned than merely abusing Tinker+Bots. It's the difference between a single hero played well and a team of five who all understand their strategy of choice in and out.
 
M

Mohasus

Member
Shinypogs said:
Speaking of LD how long does a game have to go to have 6 items on yourself and the bear? How scary is a 12 slotted LD? I remember it almost happened at TI3 but I forget which game it was.
Click to expand...

Not very scary, the bear dies too quickly and the hero doesn't do much. By that time the other team will be 6 slotted.

It was iG vs DK, burning LD.
 
D

Demoli

Member
Best part of 12 slotted Sylla is having a sheep+ doublebasher/abyssal. It's nasty if you're not the only carry, since Sylla ulti form ahs a crazy low bat.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Demoli said:
Best part of 12 slotted Sylla is having a sheep+ doublebasher/abyssal. It's nasty if you're not the only carry, since Sylla ulti form ahs a crazy low bat.
Click to expand...

image.php
 
K

ksan

Member
Demoli said:
Best part of 12 slotted Sylla is having a sheep+ doublebasher/abyssal. It's nasty if you're not the only carry, since Sylla ulti form ahs a crazy low bat.
Click to expand...

that's why you get 5 hyperstones, a basher and play without a bear
 
manfestival

manfestival

Member
I regret going to watch transformers while alliance was stomping clown 9

Transformers was such a bad movie overall. I was entertained but I felt like at the cost of my health.
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
manfestival said:
I will regret watching the next one. No spoilers but the movie left off completely open.
Click to expand...

Isn't the movie like 2 1/2 hours long? I'll likely never see it, I already found 1 and 2 really damn boring, and I can't even remember if I did or did not see 3.
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
I don't know how ESL plans on pulling off tomorrow unless they move the first game up even more, or run the semifinals games at the same time.
 
M

MurkyZebra2417

Member
This game is sometimes the worst.

Team lets me solo weaver Offlane vs trilane with Cm, Lion, Void and Sentrys. I get Fist Blooded (mistake, didn't realize they had sentry). After that I got kinda ok levels, but never got any farm because, what to do.

My Death Prophet stayed 15 mins mid. My Enchantress stayed 15 mins Jungle-Midas and Shadow Shaman and Sven didn't move from top.

Then I get flamed because I fed and didn't stay at tower. A minute later they realize Void is fat as fuck and flame me for not shutting him down. We can hold off quite a while and I try to farm some lanes. But nope, everytime someone from my team comes in and clears the waves. I am like "can i please get some farm, I need BKB or I am insta death".
"NO LOL YOU FED, YOU DONT GET FARM"

ok.....
Fun game with weaver vs. Cm, Lion who just focus you down instnatly in every fight.... phew... fuck Dota
 
G

Green Biker Dude

Banned
c9 lost because of tree, not np. they shut down the np early game and he had nothing for the first 20ish minutes and was like 0-3. the problem is that they couldn't take any towers and lost all map control because of tree armor. then alliance got a gem on the puck and removed their vision, which took a while for them to counter. and by the time they did, it was already too late

if they had banned tree, the game would've gone very differently. letting alliance have a tree and np, with the way they play, is asking to lose. especially when c9's push didn't have something like a jakiro/pugna to take down the towers quick.
 
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