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DOTA 2 |OT6| Plz vote for Keeper of the Light Arcana

X

XAL

Member
Shengar said:
What it's rat strategy?
Click to expand...

Urbandict:

"Rat Dota" is a term used in the very popular MOBA game called Dota 2. It means that one of the teams (Radiant or Dire) are pushing one or all three lanes and damaging turrets and/or structures but not committing to team fights.

Basically referring to a rat. Chipping and gnawing away at an object and then running away at the first sign of danger.
Natures Prophet TP's into a pushed lane when the enemy team is on the other side of the map and deploys his treants. Someone else on his team uses Boots of Travel and teleports onto natures treants. They both push that lane and do a large amount of damage to enemy structures very quickly. The enemy teams teleports back to stop the push, by the time they get there the damage has been done and the two pushing are long gone and doing the same to another lane.

Rat Dota at its finest, and very annoying.
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H

Hylian7

Member
Drkirby said:
Well, for one, your duel support top lane decided all they each needed was tangos, so they had no regen. LC is not to great in jungle so she did contribute anything for the first 10 minutes. She also started on the medium camp only to find out she couldn't do it, and didn't kill a single creep until 1:30. You likely should not have put LC in the jungle at all, and simply went two duel lanes or a trilane top. Your disruptor getting first item soul ring and maxing Thunder Strike is a poor build. Jaikiro was rushing a Euls for some reason. Not a single one of you got anything to try and get extra HP, outside of Pudge's Urn of Shadows.

You burned your salve pretty early at 1:10 in and had it canceled 100 HP in, , you likely should have gotten more regen. Also, you for some reason didn't even use a single tango until the second time you were below 250, when you were sitting on ~100 missing HP for a good minute. (You are also lucky you didn't die when you killed skywraith, if Treant just punched your bear down you would have died from the recoil). You never bought more regen ether. So you had to go back to base twice. Then TP back, die to Skywrath simply dumping all his nukes on you, TP back, die because the enemy storm never went back mid, walk back without a bear, and die again to skywraith dumping all his nukes on you. So this is 3 deaths in solo offline by 8 minutes. You die again at 10:30 because you had boots on your bear and not your hero. Once more at 12:30 in a team fight that broke out around you. Again at 13 when you TPed top and immediately walked into an invis Storm Spirit. I would say that last on is just bad luck, but at this point you are really under farmed and basically a non-factor.

And while all this was happening, no one else was really farming. The Disruptor Jakiro safe lane simply got zoned out by Mirana Tusk lane, LC did worst then par in the jungle, and pudge not only did poorly in mid, he stopped farming at about 10 minutes in.

Maybe someone could point out some specific things you could have done, but dying 3 times in 90 seconds at 7-8 minuets was a huge set back, since the teams were even before that happened, and allowed the enemy team to really snow ball, but I also think having LC jungle at all was a huge mistake that would have likely lost you the game anyway even if your solo lane went better. I also think you should have grabbed some simply stat items at some point. It looks like at 25 minutes in you are still trying to get a Midas.
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I wasn't going for Midas, I gave up on the midas thing before 5 minutes and decided to go Maelstrom.

I didn't see any other way I could have done anything other than just fuck off to the jungle. There was literally no way I could stay in that lane and get farm.
 
M

Madouu

Member
Yeah I think one of the main things you have to do to improve your play Hylian7 is to die less, or at least take less meaningless risks. I would understand dying while securing some much needed farm, or in an offlane position to get the creep equilibrium back into your advantage (these are risks that are worth taking) but a lot of your deaths don't serve any purpose. Also, I am sure you'd hit 4k easily if you raged less, I've seen you miss a lot of silly mistakes because you just lose your focus by being mad at yourself, like yesterday when you missed a few early cs on tinker, or at someone else.

Just friendly advice, pls no be mad.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Madouu said:
Yeah I think one of the main things you have to do to improve your play Hylian7 is to die less, or at least take less meaningless risks. I would understand dying while securing some much needed farm, or in an offlane position to get the creep equilibrium back into your advantage (these are risks that are worth taking) but a lot of your deaths don't serve any purpose. Also, I am sure you'd hit 4k easily if you raged less, I've seen you miss a lot of silly mistakes because you just lose your focus by being mad at yourself, like yesterday when you missed a few early cs on tinker, or at someone else.

Just friendly advice, pls no be mad.
Click to expand...

Obviously, I just get stuck with the worst situations sometimes. I mean you guys have seen it on stream. I feel like there's nothing you can do in a lot of situations. Hell I'm in a game right now where I'm Pudge vs an Axe mid. LIterally nothing I can do against that. I can't just "Leave the lane" either as I have to have my levels.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Hylian7 said:
http://dotabuff.com/matches/747886492

How could we have won this game?
Click to expand...

1) You laned it wrong. Should've been LC/Disraptor/Jak top, with you solo suicide. Or aggressive Tri bot with you getting the safe lane. Then again, this is a pub so I wouldn't really trust them to know how to Tri. Regardless, you should've told Disraptor to go top, not sure why he was with you at the start.

2) Your Raptor is a moron. 2/1/1. Soul Ring vs Mirana + Tusk. Might as well be -1. Addendum: He maxed Glimpse last, lol.

3) You kept going bot despite the fact that Storm was off the map and that you had no bear. When you're vulnerable like this, you should go off to jungle. LC be damned, it's not like she was clearing camps quickfast anyway.

4) Jakiro needed to buy the 6-8 minute wards much sooner. I assume he's your friend because he's in the slot right after yours. He needed to either ward both rune spots so you can see what runes Storm was getting, OR ward two Jungle entrances (mid ramp, river, top) so you and LC can farm safely. Everyone on your team should've been looking at the rune spots every 2 minutes to call out Invisibility, Haste or DD.

5) Your bear's tether range is 1100, EXP range is 1300, You were maybe 400-500 distance from your bear at all times. This is part of the reason why you kept getting jumped and dying first in clashes.

6) By the time Jakiro realized that maybe he should carry a stack of sentries, it was too late. Sentries are just super duper important against Mirana, you want a line of sentries going down the lane so that they can't jump you.

7) 25 minutes in, one tower. You got one top, at least, and creeps got the other.

Alright so, you had two big problems to deal with, one you that was within your power to control, and one that wasn't.

What you could've done:
Coordinate your team to get ganks because you had a Raptor/Jak/LC/Pudge lineup but NO GANKS WERE HAPPENING. They had zero presence, zero map control, most of them were off farming on their own while letting Mirana/Storm/Tusk/SWM run a train on you guys one by one. Study at the replay, watch how their team was moving. Your team needed to do that, and you could've coordinated it had you understood what you needed to do.

Alternatively, group up and deathball. Your clash was very strong, with two initiators (LC, Pudge) and two AoE disables (Jakiro, Disraptor), with you providing the auto attack damage and lucktangles. Tusk absolutely sucks at clashing, and SWM just melts if you can catch him, Living Armor or no. Storm was a problem, yes, but if your Disruptor knew what he was doing, Storm wouldn't be. It is trivial to throw down Static Storm when Storm goes in, and then he's 100% fucked. Treant is only moderately a issue. Why? Two of your heroes are casters, the other 3 are resilient and LC has a purge if she really wanted to get rid of roots.

What was out of your control:
No one on your team knew how to play their heroes, how to play their roles, or how to play as a team.

Pudge: Muddled around mid, lost rune control, shitty ganks, spent a lot of time doing nothing, died a lot because he thinks he's Dendi.

Disraptor: Wrong item build, wrong skill build, poor usage of skills, didn't lane correctly.

Jakiro: Tried to force Euls when your team needed obs and sentries really badly. Didn't level up Dual Breath, which is very strong early game. I saw some good Ice Path placement and some bad. Tell him he can Ice Path preemptively so Storm is frozen immediately when he comes out of Ball Lightning.

LC: Got blink around 10 minutes, won a duel, then went back to jungle to farm instead of buying smoke and looking for ganks with Disruptor/Jakiro. I don't blame her, I wouldn't trust those two either. However, LC is really not a farming carry, She's not even a carry at all. LC is like Juggernaut. Hit 6 -> Gank -> Snowball. This is how she c"arries". Not sitting back and farming, because her scaling without winning Duels is balls.

Also wrong skill build. She leveled Overwhelming Odds last, when you should do it first. You only need 1 level in Press the Attack for a very long time. Hell, you don't even need to max Moment of Courage. Just 1-2 is fine, as long as you pick up a Bottle.

You: Your LD is... less than spectacular, but he's a difficult hero to play so I'm going to cut you some slack. You should look up some Bulldong videos or pester Demoli to give you tips because I'm not qualified to talk about LD. I suck with him too.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
One more thing you can really improve on is manipulating creep aggro, which is attacking heroes to draw creeps towards you. You could've easily done this with bear while sitting comfortably 1100 units away.

Also I'm not sure why you suddenly stopped cutting their creeps. You did it at the first wave, which was questionable, but once they actually start suppressing you, it seems you completely forgot how to creep cut.

(Expanding on that last observation, my other piece of advice to you, personally, is to learn to control your tilt. Whenever you post one of these "How could I have won this?" games, and I bother to look at the replay, it seems like a few early deaths almost always puts you on full tilt, and you just end up forgetting basic shit and tiliting harder and harder.)
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Haly said:
1) You laned it wrong. Should've been LC/Disraptor/Jak top, with you solo suicide. Or aggressive Tri bot with you getting the safe lane. Then again, this is a pub so I wouldn't really trust them to know how to Tri. Regardless, you should've told Disraptor to go top, not sure why he was with you at the start.

2) Your Raptor is a moron. 2/1/1. Soul Ring vs Mirana + Tusk. Might as well be -1. Addendum: He maxed Glimpse last, lol.

3) You kept going bot despite the fact that Storm was off the map and that you had no bear. When you're vulnerable like this, you should go off to jungle. LC be damned, it's not like she was clearing camps quickfast anyway.

4) Jakiro needed to buy the 6-8 minute wards much sooner. I assume he's your friend because he's in the slot right after yours. He needed to either ward both rune spots so you can see what runes Storm was getting, OR ward two Jungle entrances (mid ramp, river, top) so you and LC can farm safely. Everyone on your team should've been looking at the rune spots every 2 minutes to call out Invisibility, Haste or DD.

5) Your bear's tether range is 1100, EXP range is 1300, You were maybe 400-500 distance from your bear at all times. This is part of the reason why you kept getting jumped and dying first in clashes.

6) By the time Jakiro realized that maybe he should carry a stack of sentries, it was too late. Sentries are just super duper important against Mirana, you want a line of sentries going down the lane so that they can't jump you.

7) 25 minutes in, one tower. You got one top, at least, and creeps got the other.

Alright so, you had two big problems to deal with, one you that was within your power to control, and one that wasn't.

What you could've done:
Coordinate your team to get ganks because you had a Raptor/Jak/LC/Pudge lineup but NO GANKS WERE HAPPENING. They had zero presence, zero map control, most of them were off farming on their own while letting Mirana/Storm/Tusk/SWM run a train on you guys one by one. Study at the replay, watch how their team was moving. Your team needed to do that, and you could've coordinated it had you understood what you needed to do.

Alternatively, group up and deathball. Your clash was very strong, with two initiators (LC, Pudge) and two AoE disables (Jakiro, Disraptor), with you providing the auto attack damage and lucktangles. Tusk absolutely sucks at clashing, and SWM just melts if you can catch him, Living Armor or no. Storm was a problem, yes, but if your Disruptor knew what he was doing, Storm wouldn't be. It is trivial to throw down Static Storm when Storm goes in, and then he's 100% fucked. Treant is only moderately a issue. Why? Two of your heroes are casters, the other 3 are resilient and LC has a purge if she really wanted to get rid of roots.

What was out of your control:
No one on your team knew how to play their heroes, how to play their roles, or how to play as a team.

Pudge: Muddled around mid, lost rune control, shitty ganks, spent a lot of time doing nothing, died a lot because he thinks he's Dendi.

Disraptor: Wrong item build, wrong skill build, poor usage of skills, didn't lane correctly.

Jakiro: Tried to force Euls when your team needed obs and sentries really badly. Didn't level up Dual Breath, which is very strong early game. I saw some good Ice Path placement and some bad. Tell him he can Ice Path preemptively so Storm is frozen immediately when he comes out of Ball Lightning.

LC: Got blink around 10 minutes, won a duel, then went back to jungle to farm instead of buying smoke and looking for ganks with Disruptor/Jakiro. I don't blame her, I wouldn't trust those two either. However, LC is really not a farming carry, She's not even a carry at all. LC is like Juggernaut. Hit 6 -> Gank -> Snowball. This is how she c"arries". Not sitting back and farming, because her scaling without winning Duels is balls.

Also wrong skill build. She leveled Overwhelming Odds last, when you should do it first. You only need 1 level in Press the Attack for a very long time. Hell, you don't even need to max Moment of Courage. Just 1-2 is fine, as long as you pick up a Bottle.

You: Your LD is... less than spectacular, but he's a difficult hero to play so I'm going to cut you some slack. You should look up some Bulldong videos or pester Demoli to give you tips because I'm not qualified to talk about LD. I suck with him too.
Click to expand...

I generally play a better LD than that, but thanks for the tips though.

I honestly though we couldn't deathball though, at least seeing how early game went. I didn't think we had the team to fight theirs.
 
M

Max

I am not Max
can't play pubs anymore when are inhouses fam

edit: had a disruptor that went dagon 3 first item, proceeded to lose due to lack of useful items, can't do it anymore
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
The Technomancer said:
Throwing this out there

I predict EG is going to rout Na'Vi, jus time to be a major wake up call for them before TI4
Click to expand...
Navi is out of time, they literally have less then a week left to seriously practice. If they don't really perform today, don't expect them to do well in groups next week.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Man more than any actual strategic commentary I'm always just impressed by how much knowledge of competitive history good commentators have. Like, you'll be watching the draft and someone will take Visage and one of the commentators will be like "now they haven't run Visage since tournament X two months ago when they fought team Y, it didn't work out for them then because it got shut down by QoP but we'll see if it works better for them now"

I'm sure they brush up on the relevant teams before matches but still...
 
S

Sigismundo

Member
356px-XY_Team_Flare_Grunts.png


Bruno?
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
What's with the influx of gaming computer chairs shaped like racing seats? Aren't those things unergonomic if you're not pulling high Gs?
 
L

Lotto

Member
So great to see an NA team consistently this strong. Kuroky is still probably my favorite player overall though, he's just a cool dude.
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Qvoth said:
i really don't think navi will go far this year :(
Click to expand...

I actually do think they have a decent change of at least making the main event still, a lot of the other European teams teams attending are looking a bit weak going in. I think a lot is going to hinge on how well Mouz and Titan do.
 
I

iamblades

Member
Kreunt said:
puppeys drafts have really sucked these last few patches
Click to expand...

I don't think he has been drafting bad per se, just that his drafts have much less room for error than some other team's drafts.

EG drafts are consistently safe and easy to execute, nothing fancy. Alliance always plans around the ability to fallback to ratting.

Na'Vi's snowball drafts are way more reliant on early success. But snowball dota has always been Na'Vi's style, so I don't know what they do to change it. I don't like it when they put Dendi or XBOCT on a passive farming hero as it just doesn't match their play style.

I think they just need to execute better.
 
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