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DOTA 2 |OT6| Plz vote for Keeper of the Light Arcana

piratethingy

Self professed bad raider
Anybody else who's very new interested in playing some and learning together? I've only played maybe ten hours, yesterday was the first time I really got into it (and played till 4 am!)

I am BAD. Don't add me and yell at me for being bad. However I do have a mic and I'll listen if you tell me what to do instead of what I am doing, lol!

Steam is piratethingy
 

ViviOggi

Member
Was this shit ever posted?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAmenVEgGNQ

Play as all your favorite public domain characters!

5HBxKl8.png

I'm afraid Blizzard got the "I want Leeg but with shorter games" crowd covered. And boy is that a crowd
 

Wok

Member
Um...keyless economy. Haven't you heard? Keys are going the way of the dinosaur.

Okay, since keys are still exchangeable for a decent price (even higher than before the annoucement), buy another currency with them. Say DC hooks.

So, because you seem to be struggling with him I decided to watch your most recent replay. A few friendly hints.

1. You went stout tango quelling blade starting items. The first two are fine, but quelling blade seems like a weird choice to me. In offlane you need more defensive items than last hitting, exp is more important than gold after all for BH. You had a lich with you tho, so it was not so bad.

2. This was more of a team thing, but noone went to secure top rune. If you are duel laning one of you should go up to get it. You would have got an illusion rune if you checked, which is very nifty for offlaners to lock camps and do a little scouting etc. Even solo it can be worth giving up some of your block to do it.

3. There is a nifty trick with BH during the laning phase. If you go invis and hit immediately you will still be in the fade time, but get the bonus damage from the shadow walk hit. This means you get the bonus damage on two hits, which is helpful for last hitting and for fighting early on. It only works with 1 or 2 levels tho as the fade time gets shorter with levels.

4. You disrupted a couple of pulls, good job! But then you kinda left the lane at level 3, despite being under no significant pressure from your opponents (they had no detection and you only used 2 tangos so far.) You then went all the way to bot rune, then started... pulling? I honestly wasn't sure what to make of this. BH can gank at level 3 if needed but you don't have to do it, and both the other lanes were pushed so there were no good targets. You should have just stayed to farm top.

5. You mill about for even longer. Get the 6 min rune bot, immediately feed those illusions to Tinker rather than scouting, sort of half gank him but don't really do much ( I put this on Lina for not responding tho, you had the right idea.) By the time you finally come across Lifestealer and kill him (which if you wanted to roam should have been your first place to check anyway, he was clearly jungling and you know a Lifestealer is gonna be fairly low) 5 mins have passed since you left your lane and you are now the lowest level on your team. This can't happen on BH, unless you are playing it in a coordinated team where you are meant to threaten with your presence like Pie did for C9. But you aren't Pie, and this ain't C9. That non-traditional approach isn't an option here. You need track so you can start your team snowball, and you are being very slow about it. Overall that 5 mins made it you seem very aimless, like you didn't what you needed to do.

6. You are maxing Shadow Walk. Bad idea. You don't need the low cooldown that bad yet, and you have eliminated the possibility to double tap as I described earlier, reducing your dps, not to mention level 1 shuriken and jinada mean your killing potential is not good at all.

7. 10 mins. You now have level 6 and phase boots, albeit like 4 mins after you should. You have like 200 gold, and you buy a circlet rather than a tp. Don't do this. You don't want to walk all the way back to lane, a tp is a way better option here than the tiny amount of stats. You go top and try to kill OD with Lich. Surprise surprise, your lack of damage from your skill build means he kills you before dying.

8. You gank OD and LS again as 4/5 this time, get a 2 for 1 trade. Could have gone better, Bristle's fault for dying tho. You still don't buy a tp. BUY TPS. At least you are getting track gold now.

9. Plenty of track kills top, you now seem to be getting more into the groove of things. Still, your teams cs is way lower than theirs, so they still have better net worth despite all these track kills. Comeback on tho?

10. At 17 mins you find lifestealer again, but he's full health. You track him, good, but also throw a spite shuriken, bad. That's just wasting mana. Can't afford that on BH.

11. You arrive a little late for a fight but get pickoffs on the edge. Alright I guess.

From here it's pretty standard stuff. Both teams group a lot, you play defensively as OD is balling out of control, you track in fights, hit when you can, pretty normal BH play. Buying sentries is a good habit, honestly I don't have much to say about the mid and late game, it was very basic tactically. One thing tho. You keep your quelling blade, presumably for dewarding, right up to the end. But if you are with your ranged teammates so much (you were), it's not worth hanging on to. I'm honestly not sure if I saw you buy a tp once.

Not.

Even.

Once.

Buy tps. That's the biggest thing I can tell you from that game.

As for BH tho, I have to say, that was potentially the perfect game for that hero. You had the perfect lane partner if you couldn't solo in Lich, because he is an excellent babysitter and you still get good exp with him, and you were against two squishy int heroes with no sentries, and a jungle Lifestealer who was practically begging to be killed. Then you would be a terror for Tinker if you got a good start, and you are also excellent vs Drow. If you played the first 10 mins right their whole team would have been in constant fear of you, either having to group as 5 all the time or risk you solo killing them and snowballing out of control. You should have been getting far more last hits in lane (especially with a QB) and stayed till level 6, at which point you could have killed LS solo, then killed Sky solo, then killed OD, honestly anyone was kill-able with level 6 and phase boots in 6 mins. And go for jinada or Shuriken max first. Which one is a point of much debate here, but don't max shadow walk. A value second point at most, you need burst. Don't waste you mana, it's very important on BH. Hopefully in future with better starts you can see how to play him more aggressively, other than almost solely a track machine.

That's all for now, hope it helps.
smile.gif

You are amazing. Thanks. The pulling bottom happened after PA asked for it several times but the other guy with him did not seem to understand: I thought why not help bottom and get the exp and gold from the creep camps.
 

Razzer

Member
Okay, since keys are still exchangeable for a decent price (even higher than before the annoucement), buy another currency with them. Say DC hooks.



You are amazing. Thanks. The pulling bottom happened after PA asked for it several times but the other guy with him did not seem to understand: I thought why not help bottom and get the exp and gold from the creep camps.

No problem. Fair enough on the pulling, but in that situation don't cripple yourself to help. Just focus on your own game unless you are support. As I described, you were more important than him anyway.
 
Donated a little to pyrion flax, he's earned like 4000 in a foreign currency but it's only like 15 American Dollars. Help him raise money for cancer research guys!
 
4000 gbp is 15 usd? :p

dollar is really strong right now

I don't think the market is flooded with aRTSes, but it certainly is with aRTSes trying to crunch League's toast. And really, Crytek? After all the financial difficulties you're going through you're setting that as your goal?
i remember this from like a year ago

so at this point theyre just riding that out trying to make anything off it
 

Razzer

Member
Here are two matches I played yesterday that I would like feedback on.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/837689597
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/837645260

Looked at the first.

1. Bought courier and wards, but noone got sentries. So you had to get them later as Clock blocked pull camp. This ain't your fault, and the fact that you saved your gold to get the sentries asap is good. Blame Enigma for not giving up some of his own gold, as he is still a 4 even if he farms well. That said, one thing you did that I also fail at is getting out into the jungle quick enough. As explained in this guide, you need to be out and scouting your jungle double time so that the offlaner doesn't get to do this. As it was, Clock got out nice and early, warded pull camp, and went to secure top rune (it ended up bot).

2. When you did get sentries, you needed two to deward. The guide I linked can explain how to handle this better than I can. When you did get it though, you didn't then pull at first. So other than the 50 gold it was kinda pointless, and you are down 150 gold as a result. I realize you wanted to help Void by harassing but you can still do that when not going to pull (it doesn't take the whole minute up). Pulling will make Void safer if done properly and secure his farm. However...

3. When you did pull, it was a single pull. So basically you just made sure the lane was gonna push even harder, securing Clock's farm and making Void a lot less safe, which means it did more harm than good. He was struggling already without that. So far in the first 5 mins Clock has been smart and you 2 have been not quite as smart, so he is winning the lane.

4. You kill Clock who gets cocky and hangs around on low health. GJ. Then you single pull again. You gotta realize when it's appropriate to do each type of pull. Look up guides on it.

5. You take lane whilst Void heals and get a good level 6 timing. Nicely done. However, when an engagement occurs in the jungle near mid, you try to walk there and end up going back halfway. If you wanted to help, it would have been quicker to drop a branch, buy a tp and teleport to the mid T1. You could have cut them off. Don't be afraid to drop branches in the side shop, you can usually pick them up later. On a related note, you bought a wand recipe presumably because you wanted to free inventory spots. As a support (and sometimes as a core), just drop a branch for later and keep the stick. You aren't going to get more than 10 charges until bigger clashes occur. This goes into what Haly's mate said about Hylian. It's something I had to learn from gaffers myself, but that 150 gold could buy dust or wards or whatever, supports need every little bit they can grab.

6. If you find yourself with nothing to do, like when you were with Void in lane with no offlaner for like 30secs, go stack or something. Tinker will be grateful for it, and there is a good chance any team you are on will have some hero that can clear stacks.

7. As I say that, you head bot to ward, stack ancients and help doom who has been struggling, even getting a kill on Sven. That's 3 good tasks done in the space of 30 seconds! Excellent play.

8. Making damn good use of that Sven stun. Eventually take bot tower. This 7min to 14 min period has been full of really good stuff.

9. You save Void from Clock, but die. A worthy sacrifice. However, now is a good time to mention Rubick can move people when he lifts them. If you had moved Clock back he may not have caught up.

10. Small skirmishes, you do support stuff like deward and push out lanes. Honestly not much to say from 14 to 20ish mins, you don't play bad but it's pretty passive from an objective standpoint. Neither team pushing.

11. Some more shit that I can't say much about, you win a fight near you base. You used your wand in base though, wat? Save them charges. Oh and as I have nothing else to say here, try to not keep your camera on you so much. I've seen worse people for this, but you still have room to improve, as do many of us (like me!).

Honestly, I sped through some more and you seem pretty competent, around my level, so there isn't much more for me to say. I guess I should mention you could have suggested roshing a lot earlier as you had Enigma, and you had a very low networth, but as solo support on a team with Tinker, Enigma, Void and Doom that was kinda inevitable.You got good exp at least. And buy more tps. You were better than Wok but could still do with carrying them more (aka always). Oh, and remember your arcane boots, you often had them off cd for ages. (I'm not talking about when you were waiting for teammates, that is good). That's it I guess.
smile.gif
 

Acti

Member
Second ranked game that loss because of a fuckin troll on my team that leaves at the 14 min mark. Fuck my life.
 

xanavi

Member
I need the opinion of an expert. Bat vs void mid. Bat starts null+tango, void starts pms+tango. Bat gets bottle first and void brings a wand asap.

Is there any way bat can keep void from farming in this lane? I feel like I massively miss-played this as the bat seeing as the void was 48/15 and I was only 29/3 at 10 minutes in. The problem I found was that void does not give a fuck about napalm and at all points he has at least 20 damage over bat.

Am I wrong in saying that this is like the match-ups vs morph mid where if neither side makes a big mistake then you both just end up farming it out?

edit: Additional infos bat's damage with null start is 46+3, void starts with 70 and 5 armor and 20 damage block with shield. Void won't let you firefly him since he time walks if you start flying. I'm having trouble seeing how bat can bully him. The game in question.
 

Kade

Member
Looked at the first.

1. Bought courier and wards, but noone got sentries. So you had to get them later as Clock blocked pull camp. This ain't your fault, and the fact that you saved your gold to get the sentries asap is good. Blame Enigma for not giving up some of his own gold, as he is still a 4 even if he farms well. That said, one thing you did that I also fail at is getting out into the jungle quick enough. As explained in this guide, you need to be out and scouting your jungle double time so that the offlaner doesn't get to do this. As it was, Clock got out nice and early, warded pull camp, and went to secure top rune (it ended up bot).

2. When you did get sentries, you needed two to deward. The guide I linked can explain how to handle this better than I can. When you did get it though, you didn't then pull at first. So other than the 50 gold it was kinda pointless, and you are down 150 gold as a result. I realize you wanted to help Void by harassing but you can still do that when not going to pull (it doesn't take the whole minute up). Pulling will make Void safer if done properly and secure his farm. However...

3. When you did pull, it was a single pull. So basically you just made sure the lane was gonna push even harder, securing Clock's farm and making Void a lot less safe, which means it did more harm than good. He was struggling already without that. So far in the first 5 mins Clock has been smart and you 2 have been not quite as smart, so he is winning the lane.

4. You kill Clock who gets cocky and hangs around on low health. GJ. Then you single pull again. You gotta realize when it's appropriate to do each type of pull. Look up guides on it.

5. You take lane whilst Void heals and get a good level 6 timing. Nicely done. However, when an engagement occurs in the jungle near mid, you try to walk there and end up going back halfway. If you wanted to help, it would have been quicker to drop a branch, buy a tp and teleport to the mid T1. You could have cut them off. Don't be afraid to drop branches in the side shop, you can usually pick them up later. On a related note, you bought a wand recipe presumably because you wanted to free inventory spots. As a support (and sometimes as a core), just drop a branch for later and keep the stick. You aren't going to get more than 10 charges until bigger clashes occur. This goes into what Haly's mate said about Hylian. It's something I had to learn from gaffers myself, but that 150 gold could buy dust or wards or whatever, supports need every little bit they can grab.

6. If you find yourself with nothing to do, like when you were with Void in lane with no offlaner for like 30secs, go stack or something. Tinker will be grateful for it, and there is a good chance any team you are on will have some hero that can clear stacks.

7. As I say that, you head bot to ward, stack ancients and help doom who has been struggling, even getting a kill on Sven. That's 3 good tasks done in the space of 30 seconds! Excellent play.

8. Making damn good use of that Sven stun. Eventually take bot tower. This 7min to 14 min period has been full of really good stuff.

9. You save Void from Clock, but die. A worthy sacrifice. However, now is a good time to mention Rubick can move people when he lifts them. If you had moved Clock back he may not have caught up.

10. Small skirmishes, you do support stuff like deward and push out lanes. Honestly not much to say from 14 to 20ish mins, you don't play bad but it's pretty passive from an objective standpoint. Neither team pushing.

11. Some more shit that I can't say much about, you win a fight near you base. You used your wand in base though, wat? Save them charges. Oh and as I have nothing else to say here, try to not keep your camera on you so much. I've seen worse people for this, but you still have room to improve, as do many of us (like me!).

Honestly, I sped through some more and you seem pretty competent, around my level, so there isn't much more for me to say. I guess I should mention you could have suggested roshing a lot earlier as you had Enigma, and you had a very low networth, but as solo support on a team with Tinker, Enigma, Void and Doom that was kinda inevitable.You got good exp at least. And buy more tps. You were better than Wok but could still do with carrying them more (aka always). Oh, and remember your arcane boots, you often had them off cd for ages. (I'm not talking about when you were waiting for teammates, that is good). That's it I guess.
smile.gif

Thank you Razzer. I really appreciate it. I have a lot of bad habits that I need to get worked out like single pulling and wandering.
 

Razzer

Member
I wouldn't say destroy, but you shouldn't be losing in cs. He is melee, so if he comes to hit you can get easy stacks. And eventually he is gonna have to wait for them to leave wand or not cus firefly with a lot of stacks is lethal. Don't let him get near the creeps, if you stay near the wave he feels more pressured. Void is better than some though as he can afford to be risky as he has timewalk if you try to firefly him. But yeah, I don't think he should be beating you that much. 1.09 pls correct my noob assessment.
 

yarden24

Member
I need the opinion of an expert. Bat vs void mid. Bat starts null+tango, void starts pms+tango. Bat gets bottle first and void brings a wand asap.

Is there any way bat can keep void from farming in this lane? I feel like I massively miss-played this as the bat seeing as the void was 48/15 and I was only 29/3 at 10 minutes in. The problem I found was that void does not give a fuck about napalm and at all points he has at least 20 damage over bat.

Am I wrong in saying that this is like the match-ups vs morph mid where if neither side makes a big mistake then you both just end up farming it out?

Stack napalm on him, use firefly to harass him out of lane,clear the waves, and get the runes off it, if he isn't bottle crowing he should be fucked, if he is then he will get reasonable CS and bat can't really threaten him too much unless he misplays
 

Falk

that puzzling face
I'm reminded of WoW's heyday and how every next MMO was slated to be the WoW killer.

I guess now ambition is a little muted because people are sick of making themselves look stupid.
 

inkls

Member
Holy
Fucking
Shit

Worst VO ive every heard

Who in their right mind approves funding for shit like this


OI GUVNOR

edit:

also singsing was apparently kicked from c9?

Envy: kicks sing Hey @Arteezy, we have a mid slot free if you're interested?

Arteezy: kicks mason Hey @EternalEnvy1991, we have a carry slot free if you're interested?"
 
I need the opinion of an expert. Bat vs void mid. Bat starts null+tango, void starts pms+tango. Bat gets bottle first and void brings a wand asap.

Is there any way bat can keep void from farming in this lane? I feel like I massively miss-played this as the bat seeing as the void was 48/15 and I was only 29/3 at 10 minutes in. The problem I found was that void does not give a fuck about napalm and at all points he has at least 20 damage over bat.

Am I wrong in saying that this is like the match-ups vs morph mid where if neither side makes a big mistake then you both just end up farming it out?

edit: Additional infos bat's damage with null start is 46+3, void starts with 70 and 5 armor and 20 damage block with shield. Void won't let you firefly him since he time walks if you start flying. I'm having trouble seeing how bat can bully him. The game in question.
TESTS ARE HAPPENING
 

Ultrabum

Member
both ultrabum and i are sciencers

so this is 100% science

We played bat vs void like 7 times and concluded that with poorman shield and tangos, void clearly has a big advantage. Getting a magic stick at about 40 seconds into the game, cements his lane dominance. The only way Batrider ever won, was if he just pushed all the lanes and controlled all the runes, eventually gaining an advantage.

Simply put, the base damage difference is too large, and the poor man shield and back track literally makes him immortal. Once he hits 6, the mana from the stck always give him the ability to jump and sphere and kill the bat, or at least make him go base.

Although, I think most of this has to do with bat being a bad mid, because WTF LOL 40 base damage.
 

inkls

Member
What he meant to say was that the GB tourney allows two standins for you to call on, and we would prefer if any volunteers could play mid cus we only have the one mid player atm.

Ah, thanks for the explanation.

Man, that voice work was terrible. I think it would have been better to have some other character do the narration who wasn't annoying.

A MOBA based on fairy tales and public domain book characters isn't really a bad idea, it could be really interesting, but that doesn't look interesting.

Its a good concept, but the character design is bland.
 
We played bat vs void like 7 times and concluded that with poorman shield and tangos, void clearly has a big advantage. Getting a magic stick at about 40 seconds into the game, cements his lane dominance. The only way Batrider ever won, was if he just pushed all the lanes and controlled all the runes, eventually gaining an advantage.

Simply put, the base damage difference is too large, and the poor man shield and back track literally makes him immortal. Once he hits 6, the mana from the stck always give him the ability to jump and sphere and kill the bat, or at least make him go base.

Although, I think most of this has to do with bat being a bad mid, because WTF LOL 40 base damage.

Were phase boots on bat taken into consideration?
 

Carlius

Banned
this game just pissed me off so much. how do ppl fail so much at support role? if you have a clinks in lane, why are you not getting sentries? the lack of logic baffles me in this game sometimes.
 

1.09

Low Tier
void mid is pretty ownage. I remember kvh and ellen pudge used to do void mid and just have tree spam living armor on void. You could just timewalk and beat some mongrel's head in without any repercussions.

But yea its rly hard to keep a 5 armor 70 dmg hero from farming mid.
 

xanavi

Member
Thanks for the third-party verification, boys. That's shitty because I think if the void I was playing against went midas I would have ended up losing that game. Luckily they fucked up.
 
didnt even get that far

shit was decided in 5 mins

I'd like to know the results if bat skips bottle and rushes phase. Gotta change up for the situation.

void mid is pretty ownage. I remember kvh and ellen pudge used to do void mid and just have tree spam living armor on void. You could just timewalk and beat some mongrel's head in without any repercussions.

But yea its rly hard to keep a 5 armor 70 dmg hero from farming mid.

1v1 yes, but pubs are not thoughtful enough to consider ganking mid rather than the reverse, and have too much pride/stubbornness to consider lane rotation or double mid.
 
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