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DOTA 2 |OT6| Plz vote for Keeper of the Light Arcana
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
Anuxinamoon
Shaper Divine
Everyone ready for some more Meracle dota tonight!? 
That poster is interesting but I think Alliance would stick to a full sweed roster. Misery is danish and I dunno what chessie is :<
That poster is interesting but I think Alliance would stick to a full sweed roster. Misery is danish and I dunno what chessie is :<
Marauder Shields
Member
Everyone ready for some more Meracle dota tonight!?
That poster is interesting but I think Alliance would stick to a full sweed roster. Misery is danish and I dunno what chessie is :<
Mercale Windranger
Everyone ready for some more Meracle dota tonight!?
That poster is interesting but I think Alliance would stick to a full sweed roster. Misery is danish and I dunno what chessie is :<
chessie is a hon player, a truly disgusting breed
ok really, he's swedish, and misery is cool anyway, except when he punches his monitor
Marauder Shields
Member
Meracle WR
Game?
Haunted
Member
StrongArmSteady
Member
Nice! I'll watch the replay tonight..
SteveWinwood
Member
yeah the servers have been pretty bad the last few days
Hey man Well Played! is one of the best things Valve ever added. I use it like every other minute in matches.
Haunted
Member
As others have said, faceless is a hard carry with an ult you usually only see on a support (i.e. huge, teamfight-deciding aoe).
It's fun to speculate how they'll nerf it, I hope they change something mechanically instead of tweaking numbers. I like that Dota is so flexible as to support and absorb big changes to a hero.
It's fun to speculate how they'll nerf it, I hope they change something mechanically instead of tweaking numbers. I like that Dota is so flexible as to support and absorb big changes to a hero.
Haunted
Member
oh sure
Missing [Lane] as well. Well Played and Get Back are easily my most used wheel commands and absolutely invaluable since I don't like to use a mic with randoms.
Gully State
Member
I have missing top/ bottom/ mid mapped to my arrow keys.
just revert the stupid ms buff in chrono and nerf his bash bonus damage. maybe nerf cd on ulti. should be fine then.
so back to the state where he wasn't played in pro games because he was seen as unviable?
Haunted
Member
See that's just tweaking numbers, I like the ideas of a contracting sphere or one that always starts with faceless at the centre more. (Though the latter still might be too strong with his free blink initiation)
Gully State
Member
I would like to see Void's chrono getting a bigger delay before activating. Give people potentially getting chrono'd on a chance to escape/counter initiate void. That would turn Void's chrono from being an initiation spell to more of a follow up spell, which keeps more in line with the role of a carry in general.
MurkyZebra2417
Member
If any of GUIDOS can read this.
I can stand in tonight. If I read the schedule correct you have two games tonight?
I will be on in Steam all day now.
I can stand in tonight. If I read the schedule correct you have two games tonight?
I will be on in Steam all day now.
It would be nice if it had a 2 second build up
Like you can see it start to form and it gives you time to force/blink/run out of it
Also its cast range should be reduced to the range of black hole. so Void has to be next to you to cast it instead of 50000 units away
Its weird that you guys are all having server problems. Ive experienced nothing in the past weak to indicate anything is wrong
Gully State
Member
Most definitely. I still remember back in the first few years of the beta, server ping was 20-70 ms on USW/USE for me. Nowadays it's consistently over 100 ms with 500 ms lag spikes from time to time.
Yeah, the more I think about it...the more I am convinced that Void's problem is that he's both a strong late game carry and a scary initiator. Being able to do both roles well is what makes him so devastating especially late game. Nerfing his initiating ability should bring him back down to earth late game while keeping him viable for coordinated play.
He was played from time to time. Not often but he wasn't trash tier, also different meta..
The ms buff is stupid because it doesn't punish bad placement/positioning as much as it should and most of the time you can save time walk until after the chrono since walking around in the bubble doesn't waste much time.
I don't think he needs a rework, his skills are fine, just a tad too strong.
bananabread
Member
Tbh I enjoyed the previous version a lot more so than this one, so I wouldn't mind seeing this at all. Might as well share my thoughts here:
The current version feels too fast paced, messy and getting involved in a crazy brawl seems like the most viable way to play since there's so much assist gold floating around that you can get rich just by surviving a fight.
- There is very little incentive to do anything but roam as a support. Given that tri-core lineups are pretty much the only thing that works (with offlaners having such an easy time of it these days and creep pulls copping heavy nerfs) it makes more sense to give all 3 cores solo xp while the supports pressure the lanes. I don't dislike roaming as a strategy, but I'd prefer there to be some disincentive for doing it badly. As it stands now if you give your 3 cores solo XP by the time the action breaks out around the 8-12 minute mark you can easily catch up as a support by simply staying on the edges of the crazy brawls that happen at the start of the mid game. Meanwhile the guys that ran duo lanes or a trilane are stuck at a 2-3 level disadvantage and get rolled.
- Splitpushing isn't viable in pub games. With weaker towers and stronger/richer support heroes, attempting to splitpush as a carry outside of the deep lategame seems to just end up with the enemy team 5man zerging down another lane and wiping out your team and two towers.
- Defending towers seems much harder. This ties in to the previous point on splitpushing. People are way more willing to 5 man up one lane and dive towers now. Gone are the days when windrunner or KotL could hold off a push by themselves. If the enemy team wants that tower, chances are they're gonna get that tower unless you tp in 5 heroes and brawl them for it. Downside is if you lose that fight you've lost the tower and possibly the one behind it as well. This means that aggression and staying on the front foot is pretty much always the best way to play.
- Blink dagger is too strong right now. It suits as a first or second item pickup on what feels like 90% of the heroes in the game right now. Combine the lack of mana cost with the need for better positioning in the messy flashpoints that kick off at random between 10-20 minutes and you have situations like blink dagger Weaver being viable (I have tried this a few times and had great success and fun with it). The larger problem here is that it's turned previously benign heroes like Doom and Wraith King into incredibly strong picks in pretty much any role or lane, and don't even get me started on Tinker.
- Faceless Void.
I'm not saying that aggression and supports getting items is always a bad thing. I just preferred it when there was options aside from relentless aggro and I considered it a badge of honor to win a game as a support player with nothing but boots and a wand. Being able to choose between and offensive or defensive strategy (or a mix of both) and more discrete definition of hero roles added flavour to the game that I feel has been lost in this version.
SteveWinwood
Member
dont just revert changes thats boring
change other things in other directions
leave strong stuff strong
make weaker stuff even weaker for clearer and more effective counters
change other things in other directions
leave strong stuff strong
make weaker stuff even weaker for clearer and more effective counters
I disagree about splitpush being unviable. You just need the appropriate hero. The point of splitpushing is also to reduce the pressure the enemy team is exercising on the map. They either back off or lose 1+ towers. Most of the time your team getting teamwiped is mostly them not understanding that you dont need to fight to stall a tower going down. The tower WILL go down, but dont let the enemy team get kills along with it. You're investing a tower in the hopes that your player splitpushing will get more out of it. So unless you're splitpushing two lanes at the same times, you need heroes good at splitpushing. A treant splitpushing will hardly get a tower at the same pace as the enemy team 5-manning, Compare that to a lycan or an np.
Gully State
Member
I agree with this. I've noticed that a most of times when I lose early game...giving up a tier 1 tower to push two lanes often is better than responding as a 5 to deathball.
Whilst your point overall has merit, this was never a good thing even in previous versions, unless it's a 20 min stomp, and even then the boots should be upgraded.
bananabread
Member
My views on splitpushing are probably colored by the fact that I pretty much only play support heroes so I never get to do it effectively. I'm basing my views on the fact that there seem to be far fewer instances where you can sit under your grinning and defending it while your Furion goes off and destroys a building on the other side of the map. The 5man will push faster than your ally, and at the very best you'll get an even trade but my concern with that is if the enemy team 5manned your tower then that was a trade they wanted to make, and letting the enemy team do what they want doesn't feel like winning.
Also, it's next to impossible to convince a pub team to let a tower go down without a fight or just to fight a delaying action without getting drawn into an actual battle. This just means that the team deathballing is likely to get kills they shouldn't, which in turn encourages more people to deathball in subsequent games.
Gully State
Member
See the thing is, given how things are working right now...I think even pushing two lanes while your tower is being taken is somewhat viable (at the very least a better decision than responding as a 5 to the deathball) even if you don't trade for a tower immediately. You force the opponent to make eventually make a decision to split up their deathball. If they do that, you have a potential ganking opportunity. If they rotate as a unit, you can then avoid and push the two lanes they aren't a part of. It doesn't always work but it at least delays the death ball into your tier 2's (not to mention allows your team to catch up a little on XP since they're getting solo or a bigger chunk of XP).
Imp the Dimp
Member
How is split push not viable?
I suggest watching my latest game. Was pretty high MMR (Jugg was 4.6k, Invoker 4.8k) and I did really well and played Void pretty much like you expect to. My death was pretty hilarious too.
I suggest watching my latest game. Was pretty high MMR (Jugg was 4.6k, Invoker 4.8k) and I did really well and played Void pretty much like you expect to. My death was pretty hilarious too.
I mostly play splitpush heroes because I like having a backup option in case the laning phase goes awry and I can tell you right away nothing pushes as hard as a lycan or lone druid (or both) even against a 5 man deathball. Otherwise you need anti-push like kotl and earthshaker. Your job while they splitpush is to stall, be as annoying as possible without putting your life at risk.
Also heres lycan + lone druid 70s gg push from t2 to throne. This is what happens when the other team doesnt back up when you splitpush:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmxY2QbwQDc
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Split pushing is very dangerous if its a counter split push against a lineup with something like a tinker or a prophet, since a 4-1 split is much safer than a 2-1-2 or a 2-3 split. Barring a weird draft or misplay the group of 4 will probably come out on top of any engagement.
Its also tricky against deathball because, well, the deathball will probably kill anyone it comes across AND take towers faster than the two or three split pushing heroes, so now your further behind on both kills and towers
In my experience its consistently viable only if you a.have a global pusher or b. Are fighting a team going for the ultra late game farm
Gully State
Member
Banana, which support heroes do you generally play?
SneakyStephan
Banned
Splitpushing while the rest of your team is staring at the enemy team taking their tower because your team can't possibly take a teamfight and win it is what makes the difference between losing a t2 mid and losing a t2 mid, a racks and a t2 bot.
It's also the difference between losing some map control after a lost teamfight or losing 2 more towers.
Splitpushing is especially effective against the current deathball meta, the worst thing that can happen against a deathball team is having all 3 lanes pushed in on you , or taking a fight while your lanes are pushed in.
If nothing else you can trade your towers for farm and exp as every minute they spend as 5 they are getting almost nothing out of the map because they're sharing exp and gold.
It's also the difference between losing some map control after a lost teamfight or losing 2 more towers.
Splitpushing is especially effective against the current deathball meta, the worst thing that can happen against a deathball team is having all 3 lanes pushed in on you , or taking a fight while your lanes are pushed in.
If nothing else you can trade your towers for farm and exp as every minute they spend as 5 they are getting almost nothing out of the map because they're sharing exp and gold.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Split-pushing with a dedicated pushing hero works just fine. Splitpushing as a desperate strategy because your team wasn't prepared for the enemy to be going for a Tier 2 at the ten minute mark or whatever just seems like it, well splits up the team to get picked off and lose more map control. If five guys are wailing on one of our towers, its going down faster than the one two of our guys are plinking away at across the map
psst. I tell this all the time to the players i play with. But if theres a hero you hate or find really annoying theres one very therapeutic thing you can do.
Pick.
Doom.
Gully State
Member
This reminds me that I have to learn how to play doom. How do you itemize him? Seems like he's pretty flexible on that front.
I've seen midas/phase/blink or SB/shiva's/aghs...Or is there a more efficient build?
Mostly just need blink for dat initiation. Doom has 0 (or 1?) base armor so if you don't build something like shiva then you are paper. Frost armor from creeps is also awesome.