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DOTA 2 |OT9| League of Ancients (6.84)

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B

BeesEight

Member
Atlantis said:
"DREW, DO SOMETHING!" - Satchwar
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Emoticon_laugh.gif


I have a 100% winrate against sniper in the last month.

(I've only played against sniper twice in the last month.)
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Supermanisdead said:
and then they say "we lost @ the draft"

bitc u instapicked sniper for the 200th game in a row fuk off
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tbh, it's really hard to lose right now on Sniper.

my last 6 months:

0hQKntm.png


and half of the losses were just unwinnable games. like...I don't even know how to lose with that hero anymore. but I also don't pick him into strong counters either.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
1.09 said:
Hylian have you ever considered its your fault
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I have made mistakes. The game still wasn't all my fault. My teammates were bitching at me for not 5-manning with them all the time and "sitting on Snipper" when they were constantly in 3-5 man death ball mode, and there is nothing I can do against that but farm. People don't understand that Storm is a farm hero. I don't get why this is such a hard concept to people.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
Hylian7 said:
I have made mistakes. The game still wasn't all my fault. My teammates were bitching at me for not 5-manning with them all the time and "sitting on Snipper" when they were constantly in 3-5 man death ball mode, and there is nothing I can do against that but farm. People don't understand that Storm is a farm hero. I don't get why this is such a hard concept to people.
Click to expand...

If you find that people won't work with you when you play storm the way you want to you generally have 3 options.

1. Play storm a different way that works better in pubs

2. Play a different hero that fits the pub meta better

3. Get good enough at playing storm the way you like that you can totally take over a game.

Just brushing off feedback and saying "<my team> won't work with me therefore it's their fault I lost" when -- in reality -- it seems to be you that won't work with the team is counter productive.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
NormalFish said:
If you find that people won't work with you when you play storm the way you want to you generally have 3 options.

1. Play storm a different way that works better in pubs

2. Play a different hero that fits the pub meta better

3. Get good enough at playing storm the way you like that you can totally take over a game.

Just brushing off feedback and saying "<my team> won't work with me therefore it's their fault I lost" when -- in reality -- it seems to be you that own't work with the team is counter productive.
Click to expand...

How exactly do you play the hero a "different" way, there really is only a few successful ways to play him, and the farming ones have a much higher success rate (pub and pro) than the non-farming ones. Doing the "get 6 and gank" methodology simply does not work. On point 2, that's like saying you might as well not play any hero that requires farm, because your own teammates won't give you time to get it at all. Of course I am trying to do #3, but it gets extremely frustrating and difficult. The issue still remains that you can't play your teammate's heroes for them.

I appreciate the advice, but still a lot of issues trying to move up in MMR, at least for me, lie with teammates, because they are frustrating as hell to play with.

Sigismundo said:
http://www.twitch.tv/blitzdota
Speaking of Storm here's Phase > Manta Storm on Blitz's stream
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Tune in, watch teammate fuck him over. Yep. And he was just short mana to get a kill he totally would have had with regular items.

Maelstrom next? This is a troll build.
 
1

1.09

Low Tier
here's the thing about matchmaking.

You're in no way shape or form in a high mmr bracket, so most people in ranked mm will be around the same level. Given that you've played a lot of games of ranked, its safe to say that your rating is pretty accurate in terms of player skill in a ranked all pick environment. You are just as equally to blame for a loss as any of your teammates, and you are in no way above the people you play with. Fix your own mindset before you queue back into matchmaking, and I'm sure you'll see some results.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
1.09 said:
here's the thing about matchmaking.

You're in no way shape or form in a high mmr bracket, so most people in ranked mm will be around the same level. Given that you've played a lot of games of ranked, its safe to say that your rating is pretty accurate in terms of player skill in a ranked all pick environment. You are just as equally to blame for a loss as any of your teammates, and you are in no way above the people you play with. Fix your own mindset before you queue back into matchmaking, and I'm sure you'll see some results.
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I try to, and I admit I get on tilt and that probably contributes some to the losses.

Regarding the bolded though, how does that make any sense? Do I somehow get worse the game? I really doubt that.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
Hylian7 said:
How exactly do you play the hero a "different" way, there really is only a few successful ways to play him, and the farming ones have a much higher success rate (pub and pro) than the non-farming ones. Doing the "get 6 and gank" methodology simply does not work. On point 2, that's like saying you might as well not play any hero that requires farm, because your own teammates won't give you time to get it at all. Of course I am trying to do #3, but it gets extremely frustrating and difficult. The issue still remains that you can't play your teammate's heroes for them.

I appreciate the advice, but still a lot of issues trying to move up in MMR, at least for me, lie with teammates, because they are frustrating as hell to play with.
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There are literally countless permutations of the different actions you could take with storm. When you farm, how you farm, when you gank, where you gank, how much you commit to those ganks, what items you build, etc. etc. etc.

You seem to think that every hero has a clear definitive singular way to build and play, and that just frankly isn't the case. It's this lack of homogeneity that makes dota so interesting.
Hylian7 said:
I try to, and I admit I get on tilt and that probably contributes some to the losses.

Regarding the bolded though, how does that make any sense? Do I somehow get worse the game? I really doubt that.
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The greater number of games that you have, the greater a pool the MMR system has to draw from. Number of games is positively linked to the accuracy of your MMR.
 
S

Satch

Banned
its not as much fun dragging botty in here while hylians bitching at the same time

it just makes it look like a whining thread no offense so i guess ill stop and let him tire himself out
 
S

Sgt.Pepper

Banned
Hylian7 said:
This shit is a fucking joke. I just want to win one fucking game tongiht and I can't even do that because I just get fucking idiots on my teams. God fuck this. I am dropping in MMR just becuase I can't control my teammates and they don't understand taht Storm has to farm, especially vs some lineups.
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stop playing when you are on tilt



try playing other game or something like all random and shit idk
 
H

Hylian7

Member
NormalFish said:
There are literally countless permutations of the different actions you could take with storm. When you farm, how you farm, when you gank, where you gank, how much you commit to those ganks, what items you build, etc. etc. etc.

You seem to think that every hero has a clear definitive singular way to build and play, and that just frankly isn't the case. It's this lack of homogeneity that makes dota so interesting.

The greater number of games that you have, the greater a pool the MMR system has to draw from. Number of games is positively linked to the accuracy of your MMR.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, but there is what is generally the BEST way to play a hero. Sure, you can rush Dagon on Nature's Prophet by cliff jungling, and maybe one out of ten times it will work, and the rest probably not. I think we all know that a Dagon rush NP is a no-no unless you have some weird strategy revolving around it, but these are extreme edge cases. Buying real items is much more likely to win you the game.

An underfarmed Storm is a sad and useless Storm though, you cannot 5-man at 10 minutes with that hero, it simply will not work. You will probably lose the game for sure unless your team can basically win fights 4v5.

Regarding the MMR, that has some strong implications, would that mean that all 2ks a year ago should be 1k, assuming they continually played games? Are the 7ks of yesteryear now 6ks? I'm not so sure if that's true.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
Hylian7 said:
Absolutely, but there is what is generally the BEST way to play a hero. Sure, you can rush Dagon on Nature's Prophet by cliff jungling, and maybe one out of ten times it will work, and the rest probably not. I think we all know that a Dagon rush NP is a no-no unless you have some weird strategy revolving around it, but these are extreme edge cases. Buying real items is much more likely to win you the game.

An underfarmed Storm is a sad and useless Storm though, you cannot 5-man at 10 minutes with that hero, it simply will not work. You will probably lose the game for sure unless your team can basically win fights 4v5.

Regarding the MMR, that has some strong implications, would that mean that all 2ks a year ago should be 1k, assuming they continually played games? Are the 7ks of yesteryear now 6ks? I'm not so sure if that's true.
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How much farm you need is relative to the other team's farm, though. If you gank enemy lanes so effectively that they are way behind in gold and xp, then even if you only have treads/bottle/soulring/orchid at 30 minutes, your team is going to be so much stronger that you can stroll down mid and blow 'em up.

Additionally, while a build may be "best" in a certain setting or in the vacuum that is pen and paper, that isn't necessarily the way that will get you the W. For example, I generally think that stacking stats on slark is the definitive build. However, I really enjoy building MoM and AC on the hero to synergize with his passive. That definitely isn't the best way to build the hero, but I have had plenty of success with it to the point that -- in pubs -- I think the build is simply strong enough to win.

You're misunderstanding the way data works. The more raw data you have, the more accurate that data tends to be. Given infinite instances of <some event>, you'll see the conclusions that tend to appear. This is true in dota. The more games you have played the more accurate the mmr is. If you were a 5k player, given infinite games, you will generally even out around 5k. Of course there's always error (for example if you go on a 10 game losing streak your mmr will be quite a bit lower), but in general this is the case. If you're stuck just shy of 4k for months on end, it's almost certainly because you're not 4k.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
NormalFish said:
How much farm you need is relative to the other team's farm, though. If you gank enemy lanes so effectively that they are way behind in gold and xp, then even if you only have treads/bottle/soulring/orchid at 30 minutes, your team is going to be so much stronger that you can stroll down mid and blow 'em up.

Additionally, while a build may be "best" in a certain setting or in the vacuum that is pen and paper, that isn't necessarily the way that will get you the W. For example, I generally think that stacking stats on slark is the definitive build. However, I really enjoy building MoM and AC on the hero to synergize with his passive. That definitely isn't the best way to build the hero, but I have had plenty of success with it to the point that -- in pubs -- I think the build is simply strong enough to win.

You're misunderstanding the way data works. The more raw data you have, the more accurate that data tends to be. Given infinite instances of <some event>, you'll see the conclusions that tend to appear. This is true in dota. The more games you have played the more accurate the mmr is. If you were a 5k player, given infinite games, you will generally even out around 5k. Of course there's always error (for example if you go on a 10 game losing streak your mmr will be quite a bit lower), but in general this is the case. If you're stuck just shy of 4k for months on end, it's almost certainly because you're not 4k.
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I think I have improved to some degree though, I know I general come out of games with more kills, less deaths, and most importantly, more farm. Given thta, why would I be dropping even lower, as I'm now below 3500. Sounds like a lot of error to me, seeing how I have had 4k sprees a few times in the past.
 
1

1.09

Low Tier
You can also look at it as players continually improve, there's a 'natural rate of improvement', and if your own rate of improvement falls short, then you'll lose mmr

Basically you're stagnating and everyone else is improving, so your mmr drops over the course of a large number of games.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
Hylian7 said:
I think I have improved to some degree though, I know I general come out of games with more kills, less deaths, and most importantly, more farm. Given thta, why would I be dropping even lower, as I'm now below 3500. Sounds like a lot of error to me, seeing how I have had 4k sprees a few times in the past.
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Because MMR doesn't tell you how good you are at dota. It tells you how good you are at winning pubs. And that's ALL it tells you. Now, there's definitely a correlation between being good at pubs and being good at dota, but that is definitely not what your MMR is determined by.

Simple example would be a 5 role support player who is very good at dota having a very hard time climbing where as a pretty lackluster troll spammer gets MMR easier than pie.
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
109, you wouldn't happened to have actually watch the replay of that last game we played? You said my positioning was poor near the end, but I didn't really see where I should have been.
 
1

1.09

Low Tier
IM BUSY PLAYING DOTA/FIGHTING HEROIC CHROMAGGUS RIGHT NOW

KIRBY HONEST TO GOD IT WAS PROBABLY DAZZLE WHO LET ME DOWN NOT YOU SO RELAX DUDE
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
1.09 said:
IM BUSY PLAYING DOTA/FIGHTING HEROIC CHROMAGGUS RIGHT NOW

KIRBY HONEST TO GOD IT WAS PROBABLY DAZZLE WHO LET ME DOWN NOT YOU SO RELAX DUDE
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I hear heroic Chrom can be delt with though a warlock deck with all the cards that make you discard.
 
S

Sigismundo

Member
I still have a couple of wings of Naxx to get through before I even think of BRM. I don't think I need Thaurissan that much since I don't like Freeze Mage but I don't know what else he fits in.
 
1

1.09

Low Tier
he's good in most decks tbh. Ctrl warr, rogue, shaman, etc.

Kibler explained that since hearthstone doesn't have interrupts and there's no way to stop a player's combo from happening by hand, even 1 turn Emperor is ridiculous.
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Sigismundo said:
I still have a couple of wings of Naxx to get through before I even think of BRM. I don't think I need Thaurissan that much since I don't like Freeze Mage but I don't know what else he fits in.
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Thaurissan is good in any sort of control deck.

I feel like Boom is falling out of the meta, I don't see him as much any more. But that could be on account me laddering a face hunter deck. All these slow decks people want to play made getting to 5 short work.
 
X

xanavi

Member
Drkirby said:
109, you wouldn't happened to have actually watch the replay of that last game we played? You said my positioning was poor near the end, but I didn't really see where I should have been.
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If you're talking about the game where I played slark then I can offer some advice.

I'm going to sneak around and pounce on you when I know you're far enough away from 109 so that he can't protect you and I'm always going to try and find the dazzle first.

If I find either of you two a blink distance or farther from him it's like Christmas for me because I can probably kill you both without expending ulti.

If I fight head-on into sf and leave you two alive it gets real dicey with the mass aoe damage.
 
V

ViviOggi

Member
Drkirby said:
Thaurissan is good in any sort of control deck.

I feel like Boom is falling out of the meta, I don't see him as much any more. But that could be on account me laddering a face hunter deck. All these slow decks people want to play made getting to 5 short work.
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Sniper picker
 
P

patapuf

Member
NormalFish said:
Because MMR doesn't tell you how good you are at dota. It tells you how good you are at winning pubs. And that's ALL it tells you. Now, there's definitely a correlation between being good at pubs and being good at dota, but that is definitely not what your MMR is determined by.

Simple example would be a 5 role support player who is very good at dota having a very hard time climbing where as a pretty lackluster troll spammer gets MMR easier than pie.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's a given tbh.

I play about as much support as i do carry and i know i'm way better at supporting than farming. My win rates with the respective heroes reflects that.

Sure, in some games, especially longer ones, games can be hard if the team refuses to coordinate. But you usually loose those games when you play carry as well.
 
P

PillowKnight

Member
Hylian7 said:
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1419752537

"I have more farm than you Storm."

-Silencer

K.
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It's pretty clear you played a significant part in losing that game. You barely had more hero damage than the support 20 cs mirana. You had the lowest tower damage in the game, despite (afk?) farming; 52 you literally only hit a tower once that game, despite having 182 last hits. Your gpm was lower than heroes that actually showed up to teamfights.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
PillowKnight said:
It's pretty clear you played a significant part in losing that game. You barely had more hero damage than the support 20 cs mirana. You had the lowest tower damage in the game, despite (afk?) farming; 52 you literally only hit a tower once that game, despite having 182 last hits. Your gpm was lower than heroes that actually showed up to teamfights.
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damn.

but maybe watching the replay is in order. sometimes the numbers are deceiving.

sometimes.
 
R

rhophiehalul78

Member
Came to visit dotagaf
saw classic Hylian posts
I'll check around another time

Edit: jk... I want to check if there are new dota happenings.
I think I only played less than 10 times this month
 
K

Kard8p3

Member
PillowKnight said:
It's pretty clear you played a significant part in losing that game. You barely had more hero damage than the support 20 cs mirana. You had the lowest tower damage in the game, despite (afk?) farming; 52 you literally only hit a tower once that game, despite having 182 last hits. Your gpm was lower than heroes that actually showed up to teamfights.
Click to expand...

378ICXx.gif
 
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