Ultimadrago
Member
I liked the review as well! On the companion AI, how would you rate it? Did it really suck? Were they at least good as meatshields, or did you stick to human friends for the majority?
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Dragon's Crown |OT| Knock down the crown
- Thread starter Caerith
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I liked the review as well! On the companion AI, how would you rate it? Did it really suck? Were they at least good as meatshields, or did you stick to human friends for the majority?
djplaeskool
Member
I understand how some could be detracted by the narrator, but as an old school pen and paper RPGer, it struck a chord rarely stimulated these days. Absolutely loved the presentation.
Karsticles
Member
Hahahahahahaha.
They gave Last of Us a 7.5... How edgy are they trying to be?
TheSpoiler
Member
Enough to cut your eyes while reading. Beware.
Shit sux that I am still looking for a job, but the second the first paycheck lands in my hands, I'm getting this game. Probably gonna double dip on that Vita version because why not?
Ultimadrago
Member
The bold part got me laughing.
Pretty much. Why bring up all this shit about sexism in a fucking beat-em up? Its not like Vanillaware is trying to make some political commentary on the role of women in society through their depiction of giant tits.
Hey, now. The Polygon reviewer is entitled to her opinion, and she's not out of line for presenting it. I don't necessarily agree with her points about the gameplay, but I also felt like the game's presentation of women was troubling. (Look at the warrior nun in the video, for crying out loud.)
It didn't impact my experience as much as it did hers, but shaming her for having a different perspective or, god forbid, being a woman is unacceptable.
It didn't impact my experience as much as it did hers, but shaming her for having a different perspective or, god forbid, being a woman is unacceptable.
Personally, I'd say it's a mixed bag. Also, reviving them can be costly money-wise... I mentioned how money works in Dragon's Crown in my review (first one on page 11).
SlasherJPC
Banned
Thank you. I thought the ai was fine. The thing is, if you don't take ai folks with you from town, and you haven't switched them to join off in the tavern, you will find characters joining you randomly at times, as if someone dropped in via co-op but not. When I jumped online sometimes you get people jumping in and out and honestly, I usually had a hard time telling who was real or ai in that regard.
TheSpoiler
Member
I think it would be more troubling if it wasn't this equal, almost hilariously stylized characters. It's not sexism if a character is sexy, and I don't know how people believe that.
Which reminds me, why didn't you tell me you had the game?!
I like it when reviews vary across the board, so good on Polygon for doing what it does even if it's clickbait. Games with 10/10 across the board make me incredibly suspicious, and are usually actually not as good as the scores imply. I like that there's a reviewer or two who just can't get past the art.
mullet2000
Member
As much as the conversation about women's representation and games is very much worth having, targeting Dragon's Crown is so...flawed. It's a game of exaggerated proportions all round, and is a core part of the artstyle. There's really nothing bad you can say about how it represents women outside of the fact that they have a huge bust or butt. The women are as powerful as the men, there's an equal amount of female characters as there are men, they aren't limited to any lesser role. It's flawed and takes away from looking at real issues that do exist in games today.
Anyway, actually about the game: If i have no strong feelings either way should I get this on PS3 or on Vita? Is the slowdown fairly common on Vita? Even if it isn't that bad if it's common i'll just go PS3.
Anyway, actually about the game: If i have no strong feelings either way should I get this on PS3 or on Vita? Is the slowdown fairly common on Vita? Even if it isn't that bad if it's common i'll just go PS3.
TheSpoiler
Member
I noticed that in the Castle of the Dead level that it slowed down a lot on my Vita. If slowdown bothers you, get the PS3 version.
Yeah, and they have their place IMO. Polygon being 'those guys who hated the game because of reasons' is fine. They do this for a lot of games, actually.
I preferred the PS3 version, but the slowdown in the Vita version isn't all that bad. It's really a matter of whether you like a big screen (like me) or want portability with slightly better control (touch screen interactivity).
mullet2000
Member
Gotcha, I'll go PS3 then. I guess it'll ave a higher online userbase anyway too.
I don't have much of a preference between screens so that's why I was having trouble choosing! I'm sure the slowdown isn't all that bad but I might as well go PS3 and not have it I suppose.
Karsticles
Member
It's also worth noting that according to two players who are near maxed out on the highest difficulty, the Amazon has the game's highest DPS.
Stop oppressing women everywhere by appreciating one artistic depiction!
SlasherJPC
Banned
I guess I could say the same thing lol. We need to keep in touch more often.
You're right. I should just go back to the kitchen and keep making waffles.
AmethystEnd
Member
Crepes instead please.
John is an awesome guy. I'm glad he posted that comment.
Mustainium
Banned
Damn, I was hoping for a Jim Sterling review.
You just sold me on $90 worth of Dragon's Crotch! Vita and PS3 day 1!
I feel like targeting Dragon's Crown for it's unrealistic and exaggerated portrayal of women is like targeting Saints Row for its unrealistic and exaggerated portrayal of urban life and gang violence.
I mean it is unrealistic, and it could be problematic if you took it seriously... but why are you taking it seriously?
If every game looked like Dragon's Crown, we would absolutely need to have a conversation about it. The problem with sexism in the gaming space is not that one game dares to sexualize women, but rather that games across the board do a pretty poor job of portraying women as independent agents rather than objects (with a few notable exceptions). Certainly this game has examples of that as well, and that shouldn't necessarily be ignored.
But again, it feels misguided to declare war on a game for having boobs in it, when what we should really be asking for is well written female characters all around. This game wouldn't be the one to deliver that either way though, because none of the characters really have much in the way of development.
I mean it is unrealistic, and it could be problematic if you took it seriously... but why are you taking it seriously?
If every game looked like Dragon's Crown, we would absolutely need to have a conversation about it. The problem with sexism in the gaming space is not that one game dares to sexualize women, but rather that games across the board do a pretty poor job of portraying women as independent agents rather than objects (with a few notable exceptions). Certainly this game has examples of that as well, and that shouldn't necessarily be ignored.
But again, it feels misguided to declare war on a game for having boobs in it, when what we should really be asking for is well written female characters all around. This game wouldn't be the one to deliver that either way though, because none of the characters really have much in the way of development.
I don't think anyone is declaring war on the game, but I feel it is completely within a reviewer's right to has concerns with the huge tits flopping all over the place, and the warrior nun with her legs spread wide open.
Even if it is fine within context--whatever that context may be--it may upset some people.
Even if it is fine within context--whatever that context may be--it may upset some people.
captainpat
Member
I'm fine with people not liking the art style or think it has problematic depictions of women but this "adolescent teenage fantasy" phrase always annoys the hell out of me.
TheSpoiler
Member
Yeah, but what's the context of the flapping? Why can't a woman chose to do so? I find that a lot of issues with the artstyle come from the characters being sexy, but what's wrong with that?
I know plenty of girls that dress "slutty", but who should give a fuck but them? Everyone can dress how they wish (without showing nudity parts, obviously), and if those girls pick those options, I don't care.
It's far mitigated when you have every character, male or female, being sexy and not just one side. But that reviewer has an opinion, and I respect it, though I may disagree.
nfbackstory
Neo Member
Offended or not, some of the character design is fucking dumb and looks like it was done by a horny 12 year old boy. Like all Vanillaware games, Dragon's Crown looks amazing, but that doesn't make it immune to criticism.
Look, if the reviewer didn't like the art. That's fine. However, I really didn't get much about the GAME from that review. That is the problem. Very few insight into her time with the game itself besides "it uses the same stages." It's clear the biggest slam against the game was the art, but since the game itself was barely addressed, this review is rather worthless to me.
Even then, the discussion about the art was flawed. Okay, you found the depiction of women to be wrong, but had no opinion on the depiction of the men in the game? They were cool, but the women were bad so let's slam this sumbitch? No, that is not quite fair.
Even then, the discussion about the art was flawed. Okay, you found the depiction of women to be wrong, but had no opinion on the depiction of the men in the game? They were cool, but the women were bad so let's slam this sumbitch? No, that is not quite fair.
TheSpoiler
Member
A horny bisexual boy, actually.
The only parts of the game that actually made me groan a little bit were the touching, and that nun, but the rest, not so much.
In regard to a reviewer taking an objection to the art, I think that's within their right, though I'd probably try to expatiate on why it offends me, rather than just saying it is offensive, because really, who cares if I'm offended?
She spent as much time talking about how offended she was as she did reviewing the game. She should write an editorial instead of a review if that is her agenda.
TheSpoiler
Member
Heh, the touching is just a throwback to another game. I like how you can touch the Orc.
Yeah, explaining why rather than just stating the fact would really help put things into perspective.
But then again, the best reviews focus on the gameplay.
GuessMyUserName
Member
What is it about sexuality that instantly makes people say childish? Adults love sex too, and Kamitani's art is simply stunning. Do you honestly think a 12 year old boy could draw this well?
Canis lupus
Member
+1 lol sold me on the game.
TheSpoiler
Member
I honestly think it's how people are raised. The US spends so much time protecting people from seeing tits that they'd rather it get sliced off in a brutal fashion instead.
My household was much more relaxed, so sexuality isn't something that makes me offended (if the intent isn't bad) or turn into a 12 year old myself.
Ultimadrago
Member
Karsticles
Member
Unfortunately, I am cursed with being better at making waffles than my wife.
He's a PR guy, that's his job. Diffuse hostilities. Any PR guy who actually encourages hostile perspectives will be fired, even if those hostile perspectives are in their favor.
The appropriate way to address this is by adding notes that some people may be offended by the content in the review. You don't actually score the game based off of how offensive its content is. Can you imagine if films did this? "A Clockwork Orange's main character approves of rape, torture, and drug use. This is a horrible moral example for today's youth. 4/10." It's just a moronic way to review any piece of media.
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