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Dragon's Crown |OT| Knock down the crown

N

nfbackstory

Neo Member
TheSpoiler said:
Hyberbole, and beyond that, thanks for telling people what kind of woman they should enjoy!
Click to expand...

I'm glad you're admitting that this is something worth wanking to, but you're right that's none of my business.

TheSpoiler said:
What are the problems you have? You keep saying there are problems, but you keep avoiding/digging that hole deeper.
Click to expand...

Do you read the news ever? A loud sector of the gaming community alone has a misogynist streak - Just look at the comments section of the Polygon review for DC, fatsluttyorugly.com, a history of games with overly sexualized females from Custer's Revenge to the upcoming FFXIII game, or even this very thread! Outside of gaming: Women's rights in the Middle East and abortion rights in the States, are much bigger issues than the general contempt "gamers" seem to have for women (and certainly larger issues than the art style of a beat em up.)

Skull Leader said:
They don't matter, because the game is good. Really good.

The art exaggerates everyone all over the place, and follows a distinct style. It's literally a problem only if you want it to be. If you cannot see that this extremely stylized world is not a reflection of reality whatsoever, and believe that it plays a role of any significance regarding the continued mistreatment of women in reality, you have brain problems.
Click to expand...

Yes, no one is going to get raped or murdered over DC art but that doesn't mean it's not a part of a much bigger issue - and thanks for insinuating that I have mental issues because I don't find misogyny tolerable no matter the format, because that's some quality discourse. Realize that everything is "only problem is you want it to be." Women's suffrage was only a problem because people saw it as such. Again, a much grander issue than exaggerated breasts in a vidya game, but my point stands.
 
G

GuessMyUserName

Member
nfbackstory said:
Wait, "idealized"? In what way are these designs "idealized" and by whom? I find it hard to believe that the amazon would be an ideal woman to anyone, because if she existed in reality the only way she would look like that would be due to excessive tumor growth. They are straight out of the school of Rob Liefeld character design. Yes, offensive art isn't always childish and childish art isn't always offensive but that doesn't mean they are mutually exclusive. The dude has a right to make the art he wants to make, sure, but that doesn't mean he isn't part of the problem.
Click to expand...

Idealized by the designer, or what the designer believes is idealized by his audience. You absolutely do know what I'm saying and you're being intentionally obtuse now. You know this because this is what you and many people complain about. That these unrealistic proportions are some way "ideal" is offensive to women and are just fantasy. In fact you made this argument right now. This is the Barbie argument, something that has been a huge hot issue for a long time.

You have yet to come up with a reason for how this art is childish. You say "It's offensive but that doesn't mean it isn't childish" but what DOES make it childish? I've asked you this for many posts now and you have never given me a proper answer. The answer you DID give me was one that describes his art as offensive and only that.

Throwaway comment or not, it was indefensible and should not have happened. It was an immature comment made in defense because someone dared to criticise his misogynist art. This isn't about growing a spine or toughening up against mean words, it's about standing up against people who contribute to the overall issues, like the ones you described.

I'm not saying people shouldn't buy Dragon's Crown. The reviews I've read said pretty appealing things about it and it sounds like a dope game. What I don't like is how people are somehow defending the character design as something that is okay. Yeah, there are bigger problems, but that doesn't mean you should let the smaller issues slide under the rug like they don't matter.
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As I said before, you're making a mountain out of an ant hill. Except now you're throwing around the word "misogynist" inaccurately. Misogyny is a hatred of women and nowhere at all does Kamitani's art suggest that. Either way, his comment was nothing and you haven't argued what is wrong about that either. I made my case, there is absolutely no ill-will around it. "Standing up" against this is absolutely worthless and I'd say harmful to your cause. Fighting against someone saying this leaves the impression you need to eradicate absolutely anything that suggests something you deem negative. I strongly believe that is wrong, as not everything offensive is harmful but instead joyful.

I believe in women's rights, I believe in acceptance towards gays and all minorities. We need to fix what is truly wrong, but not everything offensive is wrong. What you want is complete sterilization, and world like that would be completely devoid of happiness to me.
 
C

cleveridea

Member
should gamestop be giving artbooks to preorders now, or when the game releases?

I preordered there today after seeing good reviews, but was told that you get the artbook when the game is out. however I see people here posting they got them already...
 
P

perorist

Unconfirmed Member
CrazyTank940 said:
Sadly no, since you gotta use left stick for moving, dpad for items, and right stick to open chests (though you can swap dpad and left stick)
Click to expand...
Do we know if you can use the right analog the same way as on the PS3 instead of touching the screen? I hate touching the screen :|
 
K

Knux-Future

Banned
shiiiit still don't know if I should just get the Vita version or PS3.

On one hand...I have like 3 games for the poor thing plus the right stick stuff seems better ...buuuut big screen and couch co-op.

But 10 dollars less.

shiiiit
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
[QUOTE=nfbackstory;74079618]I'm glad you're admitting that this is something worth wanking to, but you're right that's none of my business.



Do you read the news ever? A loud sector of the gaming community alone has a misogynist streak - Just look at the comments section of the Polygon review for DC, fatsluttyorugly.com, a history of games with overly sexualized females from Custer's Revenge to the upcoming FFXIII game, or even this very thread! Outside of gaming: Women's rights in the Middle East and abortion rights in the States, are much bigger issues than the general contempt "gamers" seem to have for women (and certainly larger issues than the art style of a beat em up.)



Yes, no one is going to get raped or murdered over DC art but that doesn't mean it's not a part of a much bigger issue - and thanks for insinuating that I have mental issues because I don't find misogyny tolerable no matter the format, because that's some quality discourse. Realize that everything is "only problem is you want it to be." Women's suffrage was only a problem because people saw it as such. Again, a much grander issue than exaggerated breasts in a vidya game, but my point stands.

It's very ironic when you call others childish...
 
sensui-tomo

sensui-tomo

Member
Knux-Future said:
shiiiit still don't know if I should just get the Vita version or PS3.

On one hand...I have like 3 games for the poor thing plus the right stick stuff seems better ...buuuut big screen and couch co-op.

But 10 dollars less.

shiiiit
Click to expand...

you cant play co-op imediately on the vita unlike the ps3 where you can do couch co-op instantly... go with that.
 
N

nfbackstory

Neo Member
GuessMyUserName said:
You have yet to come up with a reason for how this art is childish. You say "It's offensive but that doesn't mean it isn't childish" but what DOES make it childish? I've asked you this for many posts now and you have never given me a proper answer. The answer you DID give me was one that describes his art as offensive and only that.
Click to expand...

I did answer this already ("It's childish character design because when an artist consciously creates something like the Amazon he's showing ignorance and naivete (at worst, a contribution) to a widespread cultural problem of female objectification.") I didn't even use the word "offensive" and I certainly said more than that.

GuessMyUserName said:
As I said before, you're making a mountain out of an ant hill. Except now you're throwing around the word "misogynist" inaccurately. Misogyny is a hatred of women and nowhere at all does Kamitani's art suggest that. Either way, his comment was nothing and you haven't argued what is wrong about that either. I made my case, there is absolutely no ill-will around it. "Standing up" against this is absolutely worthless and I'd say harmful to your cause. Fighting against someone saying this leaves the impression you need to eradicate absolutely anything that suggests something you deem negative. I strongly believe that is wrong, as not everything offensive is harmful but instead joyful.

I believe in women's rights, I believe in acceptance towards gays and all minorities. We need to fix what is truly wrong, but not everything offensive is wrong. What you want is complete sterilization, and world like that would be completely devoid of happiness to me.
Click to expand...

As I've said before, just because it's small stuff doesn't mean it should be ignored. And remember, just because something is "fine" with you, doesn't mean there isn't a problem, that's just selfish. You're dealing in assumptions now with your "eradicating" comment, and you know that's not what I'm getting at. I'm not sure what railing against the character design says I'm in favor of sterile design... It's not like oversexualization is the only way to design a compelling or stylized character. Ridiculously over-exaggerated boobs and thighs are not required for style and that seems to be what you're saying.
 
F

Freezasaurus

Member
nfbackstory said:
As I've said before, just because it's small stuff doesn't mean it should be ignored. And remember, just because something is "fine" with you, doesn't mean there isn't a problem.
Click to expand...

I feel a need to say something here, because this kind of thing gets under my skin.

I think it was meant that the character art is "stylized", which it very much is. Most of the characters have some part of their anatomy exaggerated, the Elf probably being the only exception. It's a bit silly, but it serves the art style well. Regardless, it's nothing to get offended over. And the attempts of forced political correctness in relation to it annoy the shit out of me to no end. If anyone is offended by the art style for some reason, that's fine. They're well within their rights. But their options are pretty much to either get over it, or just refuse to play the game. Those are the facts. No one is going to bend over backward to try and appease your sense of morality. Play it or don't. It's a game. Isn't there some greater evil to go campaign against?
 
E

Eterniti

Member
Akainu said:
I really like the monster designs in this. This has a end boss right? How does it look?
Click to expand...

IMO the last boss looks great, but only because of the things it does that remind me of older titles. There's a deliberate tone that I take in my review of the game, and it hints at what the last boss is/looks like.
 
G

GuessMyUserName

Member
nfbackstory said:
I did answer this already ("It's childish character design because when an artist consciously creates something like the Amazon he's showing ignorance and naivete (at worst, a contribution) to a widespread cultural problem of female objectification.") I didn't even use the word "offensive" and I certainly said more than that.
Click to expand...

I argued that absolutely is no ignorance, only preference. Then stated that it is not childishness, you did not say the word "offensive" but that's the only thing your comment describes. Your comment describes the artstyle as insensitivity - ie. it's offensive.



As I've said before, just because it's small stuff doesn't mean it should be ignored. And remember, just because something is "fine" with you, doesn't mean there isn't a problem, that's just selfish. You're dealing in assumptions now with your "eradicating" comment, and you know that's not what I'm getting at. I'm not sure what railing against the character design says I'm in favor of sterile design... It's not like oversexualization is the only way to design a compelling or stylized character. Ridiculously over-exaggerated boobs and thighs are not required for style and that seems to be what you're saying.
Click to expand...

If you're offended by what Kamitani said then go ahead I won't stop you. If you're offended he should apologize - and he did. What he said was not horrific though. Mountain. Ant Hill.

I did not say oversexualization is the only way to design a compelling or stylized character. What I'm saying is that it is one form of style, one form of style that you do not agree with. You say over-exaggerated boobs and thighs are not required for style and I absolutely do agree with you. This is Kamitani's form of art, you don't like it so you don't want it to happen. You don't want anything you're offended by to happen. Lucky for you. if you don't like his art style you don't have to play his game. Let people who DO appreciate his art enjoy it, and keep yourself out of it.
 
E

Eterniti

Member
SolidSnakex said:
It's not the dragon that's been in most of the marketing, right?
Click to expand...

No. It's not.

There's actually plenty of dragons in this game, there's also a wyvern which kinda looks like a dragon.

Ken said:
Need some opinions.

PS3 copy for 3 player local coop or two Vita copies for 2P local coop for the portability at the cost of a third player since I don't have 3 Vitas. I'm guessing the fun significantly increases with a third player but the repetition and loot grind seems well-suited for handhelds. How does the game handle or adjust to party levels, such as if one player was much higher level than the rest of the group?
Click to expand...

I played my level 31 Amazon with three of my friends at level 1 and they seemed to do a decent job surviving and hitting things. It even leveled them up 5 times in the process!

As far as multiplayer in general is concerned, I enjoyed playing it both on the Vita and PS3. I played the PS3 version this past Sunday with two of my friends for 8 hours straight and never found it to be boring. On the Vita, it's very enjoyable and easy to get in and out given that, unlike the PS3 version, there's no "standby" state. When you hit Start to pause the game on both platforms, it does NOT pause the action in the background. I suspect this is so that the people you play with online won't be affected by you pausing the game.

I'd say PS3 personally for same couch co-op, but that's just me.
 
K

koryuken

Member
nfbackstory said:
I did answer this already ("It's childish character design because when an artist consciously creates something like the Amazon he's showing ignorance and naivete (at worst, a contribution) to a widespread cultural problem of female objectification.") I didn't even use the word "offensive" and I certainly said more than that.
Click to expand...

Sorry to be harsh but I feel like you are just seeking attention. I may be insensitive to the plight of objectified women in video games, but you have chosen a really terrible example to promote your argument.
 
F

Freezasaurus

Member
GuessMyUserName said:
His comment there is not directed towards the game, but toward's Kamitani showing Schhrier a picture about dwarves and saying "maybe this is something you'd like instead" (paraphrased).
Click to expand...

Yeah, I remember that much. It was juvenile, certainly. But it was also mildly amusing. Most importantly, it was a joke. No matter where you go or what you do, someone is probably going to be offended. But shit, when I was a kid, people had much thicker skin than they do nowadays.
 
S

SlasherJPC

Banned
I asked this on twitter but I'll say ask here: "Everyone upset about Dragons Crown artistic choices concerning females.Serious question, did you play Witcher 2, and did it bother you then?"
 
C

CyberpunkGod

Member
Vita GAF please add me on PSN so I actually have someone to play with, my name is on the players list. Nobody else except like one person on my friends list is getting this sadly.
 
F

Fine Ham Abounds

Member
Riposte said:
How is the difficulty in this game?

How much of the difficulty is decided by loot/grinding versus "area level" or w/e?

What is combat like in terms of variety of moves you'll use? How many moves are obsolete versus how many are useful? What are enemy tactics like?

Thanks to anyone who can answer these without sounding like they are trying to sell the game to me.
Click to expand...

I didn't do a lot of digging, but here's some relevant bits and pieces of posts I've dragged out of the import impressions thread and edited for length:

AmethystEnd said:
From a poster on gfaqs who has the game and can read Japanese (He has posted videos on youtube):

STR --- Affects strength of physical attacks.
INT --- Affects strength of magic attacks.
CON --- How much damage reduction you get off of physical attacks that hit you.
MGR --- How much damage reduction you get off of magic attacks that hit you.
DEX --- This affects how stable your weapon damage is (note: every weapon's attack stat is listed as XX to XX. For intance, an S class level 36 weapon might be 81 to 103, while an E class lv.36 one might be 3 to 103... this stat affects how consistent your damage ratings are, I suppose).
LUC --- Affects rates of critical hits.


You have to finish the A path of all 9 of the main stages before online co-op is enabled. Every stage has an A and B path each with different bosses. Apparently the 9th stage's A path is around character level 17. Once you've cleared that path, online co-op unlocks and all of the stages/bosses you've cleared before get scaled up to their level 17 versions as well. Couch co-op is unlocked from the start.
Click to expand...

Vanille said:
My final playtime was 16 hours. I'd say roughly 7 of those hours were spent grinding for loot/gold/exp by playing the same stages over and over, and the other 9 were spent actually progressing through the game.


It usually takes me like half a minute to figure out what stage I've been dropped in when I jump online because they all look so similar.
Click to expand...

Sometimes the hit detection is a bit weird. I'm using the Dwarf right now and it seems to be 50/50 whether he'll hit the enemy or grab them instead.

The mandatory tutorial. GAAAAAAH. I hate whoever came up with this idea. Just let people play their games. ):

There are a lot of skills for each character. The skill list is represented by a tarot-card-like menu. One set is for the class your character is, and the other says "common" and has universal skills like sliding, food cytology (?) and gold healing. So there's quite a lot of skills and moves to keep track of.

Losing all your lives only seems to make you lose gold, as I was still able to continue just by pressing X. You get an AI partner after the first boss. Not sure if you get more of them later. Probably.

The gameplay itself is like playing the old D&D Capcom games, but more loose. There are off-the-ground combos and juggles out the behind in this game. I noticed the wizard that I have as an AI partner loves freezing the hell out of the enemies.

Dwarf has a bunch of throws. His side throw bounces enemies off the wall for combo possibilities. His up throw makes them fly off the screen and smack into the ground really hard (it also creates a domino effect for other enemies). If you jump and hit square he does this weird downward Blanka ball thing that hits about 6 times. Very good against bosses.
Click to expand...

twentytwo22 said:
My thoughts on the Vita version, about 5 and a half hours in:

The levels are lengthy and chalk-full of secrets, side paths, and stuff you will definitely miss the first time through.

The skill list for each character (and the common skill tree, which grants general skills) have a ton of choices and there are a lot of different ways to play each character.
Click to expand...

Attempting to avoid both length yet also quote mining here.
 
M

Moofers

Member
XxSlasherMcGirkxX said:
Does anybody know if the PS3 version has custom soundtracks? It's a long shot but it could happen.
Click to expand...

This isn't a thing now for PS3 is it? I play like 95% of my games on PS3 vs my 360 and I always wished it had the custom soundtrack support the 360 has. Was this added in an update that now works with some games or something?
 
V

Voror

Member
Still wondering which I should go with though my friends are getting the Vita version. Is the main difference that the PS3 version runs better than the Vita one?
 
Ultimadrago

Ultimadrago

Member
Voror said:
Still wondering which I should go with though my friends are getting the Vita version. Is the main difference that the PS3 version runs better than the Vita one?
Click to expand...

Yes, as well as local from the near beginning. However, keep in mind that the PS3 requires right analog mouse movement that's less instant than the touch feature on Vita to open chests, doors and use runes.
 
Liberty4all

Liberty4all

Banned
nfbackstory said:
I did answer this already ("It's childish character design because when an artist consciously creates something like the Amazon he's showing ignorance and naivete (at worst, a contribution) to a widespread cultural problem of female objectification.") I didn't even use the word "offensive" and I certainly said more than that.



As I've said before, just because it's small stuff doesn't mean it should be ignored. And remember, just because something is "fine" with you, doesn't mean there isn't a problem, that's just selfish. You're dealing in assumptions now with your "eradicating" comment, and you know that's not what I'm getting at. I'm not sure what railing against the character design says I'm in favor of sterile design... It's not like oversexualization is the only way to design a compelling or stylized character. Ridiculously over-exaggerated boobs and thighs are not required for style and that seems to be what you're saying.
Click to expand...

Sexuality is part of the human experience be it in art, tv, gaming and culture. What you consider over sexualized others might consider art. Definitely in the case of this game the overt sexual themes are a part of the art style and I'm fine with that. You may not be, but hey, its a good thing we live in countries that allow for freedom of expression.
 
W

Weltall Zero

Member
TheSpoiler said:
I honestly think it's how people are raised. The US spends so much time protecting people from seeing tits that they'd rather it get sliced off in a brutal fashion instead.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. I remember someone (the Penny Arcade guys?) once travelling to France and commenting how several regular TV ads would be X-rated in the US. It's pretty much the same in Spain, with lots of ads having nudity, and nobody bats an eyelid. For some reason, deodorants ads almost seem required to have nudity in them (may be NSFW, especially in the US :D):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqY6LNrxvg8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5Qj2hMEz9I
Of course, even in Europe, questionable use of sex appeal to sell is still seen as immature, and I can't blame anyone getting that first impression with Dragon's Crown for example (justified or not).
 
D

Deified Data

Banned
Couple questions:

Is this game beatable single-player? I'd want to do my first playthrough by myself.

Can PS3 players play with Vita players, and vice versa?
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
Deified Data said:
Couple questions:

Is this game beatable single-player? I'd want to do my first playthrough by myself.

Can PS3 players play with Vita players, and vice versa?
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure you can beat it single player. & sadly, you're restricted to online play with whatever system you got the game for (Vita can only play online with other Vita owners, & same for PS3).
 
HORRORSHØW

HORRORSHØW

Member
Deified Data said:
Couple questions:

Is this game beatable single-player? I'd want to do my first playthrough by myself.

Can PS3 players play with Vita players, and vice versa?
Click to expand...
Can't answer your first question, but to answer your second: there is no cross-play between the PS3 and Vita.
 
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