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Dragon's Crown |OT| Knock down the crown

M

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
baconcow said:
Pretty much. No offense, but don't review something you have a morale conflict of interest with it (female reviews a game that exaggerates the female body and deducts points... this is like a WW2 casualty reviewing Call of Duty).
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Not the same thing at all. You're pretty much saying that women should stay away from the game completely and that's some porn level absurdity.
 
O

OSHAN

Member
Karsticles said:
You don't actually score the game based off of how offensive its content is. Can you imagine if films did this? "A Clockwork Orange's main character approves of rape, torture, and drug use. This is a horrible moral example for today's youth. 4/10." It's just a moronic way to review any piece of media.
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But reviews DO do that. It happens all the time.
 
V

Volcynika

Member
Karsticles said:
He's a PR guy, that's his job. Diffuse hostilities. Any PR guy who actually encourages hostile perspectives will be fired, even if those hostile perspectives are in their favor.
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But it's not even his job as a PR guy to try and diffuse things on a site's review of their game. PR people are working to get awareness of their game, advertise, and handle getting reviewables and such to other. He didn't even have to say a thing about it or post on the site. If anything he'd focus more on the higher review scores and not bring as much attention to the ones that aren't as high.
 
J

Jacksonlee

Member
TheSpoiler said:
HERE'S MY REVIEW

STORY - DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER. SEXIST TRASH. YOU CAN TOUCH GIRLS

GAMEPLAY - BREST IN YOUR FACE. BOUNCING. I'M OFFENDED

GRAPHICS - Very beautiful, artistic artstyle. IS WHAT I'D SAY IF THIS GAME WASN'T GOING OUT OF ITS WAY TO MAKE EVERY GIRL FEEL LIKE SHIT.

OVERALL I'D GIVE IT A FUCKING 1/10 FUCKING MALE SCUM FAT SHAMING.
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10/10.

will pre-order.
 
R

RMI

Banned
Brandon F said:
It's the same shit argument that violence in games promotes real world violence. Except here we have insiders vying for censorship.
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Yup.

Honestly not surprised by the Polygon review. It wasn't even a bad review. It just goes to show how pointless and fucking useless review scores are, especially Polygon's review scores. Now the whole comments section there is just a mess.
 
B

Bumhead

Banned
I have some issues with the character design. I think they're pretty universally ugly, not just for the boobs, but I do find the sorceress design pretty ridiculous. It's not something I'd want to play in front of my wife, put it that way. Same as for the likes of God of War and the sex mini games.

I wouldn't penalise a review for my personal art style preferences though. The game looks incredible outside of the character designs and I'm glad to see it getting rewarded for its other attributes elsewhere.
 
J

Jacksonlee

Member
Bumhead said:
I have some issues with the character design. I think they're pretty universally ugly, not just for the boobs, but I do find the sorceress design pretty ridiculous. It's not something I'd want to play in front of my wife, put it that way. Same as for the likes of God of War and the sex mini games.

I wouldn't penalise a review for my personal art style preferences though. The game looks incredible outside of the character designs and I'm glad to see it getting rewarded for its other attributes elsewhere.
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how bout personal game mechanic preferences, music, design, story and the like?
 
Riposte

Riposte

Member
How is the difficulty in this game?

How much of the difficulty is decided by loot/grinding versus "area level" or w/e?

What is combat like in terms of variety of moves you'll use? How many moves are obsolete versus how many are useful? What are enemy tactics like?

Thanks to anyone who can answer these without sounding like they are trying to sell the game to me.
 
T

TheFLYINGManga_Ka

Member
OSHAN said:
Well, it's nice. I'm not sure if it is 90 dollars nice.
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Eterniti said:
I played it primarily on Vita and it's the same game there, except you're not playing it on a 1080p HDTV. If you want to save money, get the Vita version since it's cheaper.

EDIT: Being that I have both versions, I can honestly say that it's a nicety to have both. But seeing as how there's no cross-play or cross-buy, it's tough to justify paying $90 for the whole thing.
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Alright , thanks. As long as its the same game ill be cool!

I need more games on my Vita so I guess that's best for now.
 
A

atlusprime

Atlus PR
Karsticles said:
He's a PR guy, that's his job. Diffuse hostilities. Any PR guy who actually encourages hostile perspectives will be fired, even if those hostile perspectives are in their favor.
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My job as a PR guy does not require me to go out of my way to urge people to be reasonable. I do it because it's the right thing to do.
 
N

nfbackstory

Neo Member
GuessMyUserName said:
What is it about sexuality that instantly makes people say childish? Adults love sex too, and Kamitani's art is simply stunning. Do you honestly think a 12 year old boy could draw this well?
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This isn't about sex though, or a 12 year old's art skills... It's childish character design because when an artist consciously creates something like the Amazon he's showing ignorance and naivete (at worst, a contribution) to a widespread cultural problem of female objectification. Yes, DC has ridiculous character male designs too, but you know what? Men don't get to complain about that because men aren't the ones under attack and will never be because we (I'm a dude also) have been the dominant sex for most of human existence (barring a minimum of societal anomalies). It's the same argument for straight rights vs gay rights - Men aren't the ones being threatened here. Sure DC isn't a horribly sexist piece of garbage - I agree most of the art is flippin fantastic like all of Vanillaware's games are, but take some fucking cultural responsibility for your design. It's a blemish on what otherwise seems to be a pretty fantastic game overall and it's a shame.

But really, we're talking about the art of a man who inferred a critic was gay because they didn't like his female character design - you want to talk about how this isn't childish some more?
 
J

jorgeton

Member
Did not realize Hashimoto did the score for this. Might just have to pick it up now. I'm kind of bummed the Vita version doesn't play with the PS3 version. I plan to Vita it, but would love to play with folks who own the PS3 version. Either way, this game's looking boobs.. I mean.. good.
 
B

Bogeypop

Member
My "country side" is ready. Wait just a bit longer Elf-chan!
kreygasm.png
 
E

excaliburps

Press - MP1st.com
This is honestly the first JP-developed game that has me intrigued for the longest time.

What's the closet game its gameplay can be compared to?

Anyone know how long the game is, too?
 
T

TheFLYINGManga_Ka

Member
Read the IGN review.

Now I want both! *wallet is crying!*

Looks like this could be one of my favorite games of all time! Just the artwork alone makes it top of my list.

George Kamitani is an amazing artist. I was always a fan of his art since Oden Sphere. This looks like his best game yet!
 
R

RMI

Banned
excaliburps said:
This is honestly the first JP-developed game that has me intrigued for the longest time.

What's the closet game its gameplay can be compared to?

Anyone know how long the game is, too?
Click to expand...

Closest gameplay comparison looks to be like Golden Axe + lots of RPG elements and character customization (?)

Length is 20-25 hours, but i guess there is a lot of extraneous extra stuff you can do (extra difficultues - playing with different characters) if you really want to play it a lot.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
atlusprime said:
My job as a PR guy does not require me to go out of my way to urge people to be reasonable. I do it because it's the right thing to do.
Click to expand...
It might not require you to do that, but it's certainly within your job description to do such a thing, and it is part of your role to mitigate these things when you feel it is appropriate. It's great that you're a very active PR guy, but it's still just PR work. If you don't want it to be taken as PR work, then consider not speaking as a PR rep in your comment.
 
K

Ken

Member
Need some opinions.

PS3 copy for 3 player local coop or two Vita copies for 2P local coop for the portability at the cost of a third player since I don't have 3 Vitas. I'm guessing the fun significantly increases with a third player but the repetition and loot grind seems well-suited for handhelds. How does the game handle or adjust to party levels, such as if one player was much higher level than the rest of the group?
 
G

GuessMyUserName

Member
nfbackstory said:
This isn't about sex though, or a 12 year old's art skills... It's childish character design because when an artist consciously creates something like the Amazon he's showing ignorance and naivete (at worst, a contribution) to a widespread cultural problem of female objectification.
Click to expand...

It's not ignorance at all. It's simply good art. You don't like it because you're offended by idealized sexual appeal? That's fine, you don't have to like it and in fact art is NEVER appreciated by everybody. But that does not make the design childish just because it offends people.

But really, we're talking about the art of a man who inferred a critic was gay because they didn't like his female character design - you want to talk about how this isn't childish some more?
Click to expand...

I agree his comment was childish, I disagree that it was wrong. It's something completely non-serious and anyone who gets offended by this needs to grow a spine and calm down. He doesn't say being gay is wrong, that is something people wrongfully infer by themselves - or are even told to believe by media and other sources. Did he imply something about somebody that isn't true? Absolutely. But do you think he seriously believes that, or believes that anybody that doesn't like his idealized sexual appeal is gay? We as a people are incredibly high-strung nowadays due to many issues we have, issues that we rightly do want to solve such as tolerance towards gays, misogyny, and so so much more, but we should not let meaningless throwaway incidents as be treated as such an extreme offense as we always do.
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
nfbackstory said:
This isn't about sex though, or a 12 year old's art skills... It's childish character design because when an artist consciously creates something like the Amazon he's showing ignorance and naivete (at worst, a contribution) to a widespread cultural problem of female objectification. Yes, DC has ridiculous character male designs too, but you know what? Men don't get to complain about that because men aren't the ones under attack and will never be because we (I'm a dude also) have been the dominant sex for most of human existence (barring a minimum of societal anomalies). It's the same argument for straight rights vs gay rights - Men aren't the ones being threatened here. Sure DC isn't a horribly sexist piece of garbage - I agree most of the art is flippin fantastic like all of Vanillaware's games are, but take some fucking cultural responsibility for your design. It's a blemish on what otherwise seems to be a pretty fantastic game overall and it's a shame.

But really, we're talking about the art of a man who inferred a critic was gay because they didn't like his female character design - you want to talk about how this isn't childish some more?
Click to expand...

Sexy character =\= sexist character. You really are assuming the intent of the developer was to objectify women. If that were the case, the females would have to be rescued, weak, a plot point, and just eye candy.

They aren't. The females are just as good as the male characters. And there's an equal amount of sexy in both camps, so it's not like every character is out to make people offended. You say the Amazon is a sexist depiction, but how? Just because she likes to wear less clothing than, say, the Elf?

What makes you the authority on what a woman can and can't wear? If anything, she's the worst example you could have picked, because she has the highest DPS of any character!

This is a huge problem. People cherry pick all the time and ignore real problems, of which this isn't.

Edit: And he already apologized about the "gay" thing. Really gonna dredge up things that people were already remorseful about to prove a point? 'Cause it certainly doesn't help yours.
 
A

Alfredo

Member
I kinda wonder what would be an "acceptable" art style for the game? A bunch of normal looking people? 'cause I think that'd be kinda boring.

Normal looking women and a bunch of huge, muscled out, improportionate dudes? No women at all, just a bunch of muscley men? Seems like any way it could go, you'd have some crazy inequality there.

I mean, if you want modestly designed characters, you have the Elf and the Wizard, and then crazy-looking people for the other classes.
 
S

Skull Leader

Banned
Alfredo said:
I kinda wonder what would be an "acceptable" art style for the game? A bunch of normal looking people? 'cause I think that'd be kinda boring.

Normal looking women and a bunch of huge, muscled out, improportionate dudes? No women at all, just a bunch of muscley men? Seems like any way it could go, you'd have some crazy inequality there.

I mean, if you want modestly designed characters, you have the Elf and the Wizard, and then crazy-looking people for the other classes.
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The fact that the Amazon is this hulked out crazy powerful chick as opposed to being a generic waif with a perfect supermodel figure is actually kinda cool when you think about it. Usually you only see male characters in videogames with a mountain-esque physique.
 
F

FINALBOSS

Banned
How about we keep whining about the art style and contorted proportions out of this thread? Keep that bullshit in the review thread or something :/
 
N

nfbackstory

Neo Member
GuessMyUserName said:
It's not ignorance at all. It's simply good art. You don't like it because you're offended by idealized sexual appeal? That's fine, you don't have to like it and in fact art is NEVER appreciated by everybody. But that does not make the design childish just because it offends people.
Click to expand...

Wait, "idealized"? In what way are these designs "idealized" and by whom? I find it hard to believe that the amazon would be an ideal woman to anyone, because if she existed in reality the only way she would look like that would be due to excessive tumor growth. They are straight out of the school of Rob Liefeld character design. Yes, offensive art isn't always childish and childish art isn't always offensive but that doesn't mean they are mutually exclusive. The dude has a right to make the art he wants to make, sure, but that doesn't mean he isn't part of the problem.


GuessMyUserName said:
I agree his comment was childish, I disagree that it was wrong. It's something completely non-serious and anyone who gets offended by this needs to grow a spine and calm down. He doesn't say being gay is wrong, that is something people wrongfully infer by themselves - or are even told to believe by media and other sources. Did he imply something about somebody that isn't true? Absolutely. But do you think he seriously believes that, or believes that anybody that doesn't like his idealized sexual appeal is gay? We as a people are incredibly high-strung nowadays due to many issues we have, issues that we rightly do want to solve such as tolerance towards gays, misogyny, and so so much more, but we should not let meaningless throwaway incidents as be treated as such an extreme offense as we always do.
Click to expand...

Throwaway comment or not, it was indefensible and should not have happened. It was an immature comment made in defense because someone dared to criticise his misogynist art. This isn't about growing a spine or toughening up against mean words, it's about standing up against people who contribute to the overall issues, like the ones you described.

I'm not saying people shouldn't buy Dragon's Crown. The reviews I've read said pretty appealing things about it and it sounds like a dope game. What I don't like is how people are somehow defending the character design as something that is okay. Yeah, there are bigger problems, but that doesn't mean you should let the smaller issues slide under the rug like they don't matter.
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
nfbackstory said:
Wait, "idealized"? In what way are these designs "idealized" and by whom? I find it hard to believe that the amazon would be an ideal woman to anyone, because if she existed in reality the only way she would look like that would be due to excessive tumor growth. They are straight out of the school of Rob Liefeld character design. Yes, offensive art isn't always childish and childish art isn't always offensive but that doesn't mean they are mutually exclusive. The dude has a right to make the art he wants to make, sure, but that doesn't mean he isn't part of the problem.
Click to expand...


Hyberbole, and beyond that, thanks for telling people what kind of woman they should enjoy!


nfbackstory said:
Throwaway comment or not, it was indefensible and should not have happened. It was an immature comment made in defense because someone dared to criticise his misogynist art. This isn't about growing a spine or toughening up against mean words, it's about standing up against people who contribute to the overall issues, like the ones you described.

I'm not saying people shouldn't buy Dragon's Crown. The reviews I've read said pretty appealing things about it and it sounds like a dope game. What I don't like is how people are somehow defending the character design as something that is okay. Yeah, there are bigger problems, but that doesn't mean you should let the smaller issues slide under the rug like they don't matter.
Click to expand...

What are the problems you have? You keep saying there are problems, but you keep avoiding/digging that hole deeper.
 
S

Skull Leader

Banned
nfbackstory said:
I'm not saying people shouldn't buy Dragon's Crown. The reviews I've read said pretty appealing things about it and it sounds like a dope game. What I don't like is how people are somehow defending the character design as something that is okay. Yeah, there are bigger problems, but that doesn't mean you should let the smaller issues slide under the rug like they don't matter.
Click to expand...

They don't matter, because the game is good. Really good.

The art exaggerates everyone all over the place, and follows a distinct style. It's literally a problem only if you want it to be. If you cannot see that this extremely stylized world is not a reflection of reality whatsoever, and believe that it plays a role of any significance regarding the continued mistreatment of women in reality, you have brain problems.
 
E

erpg

GAF parliamentarian
I think the designs are fantastic. I know quite a few people who agree with me, and quite a few who don't. We could argue until we're blue in the face but taste isn't exactly the most malleable thing.

I'm going to enjoy the game, and I hope nobody will lose sleep over that.
 
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